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[Archived]Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood


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#10891    Abramelin

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Posted 01 April 2012 - 10:09 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 30 March 2012 - 04:47 PM, said:

Well, Otharus, it must have been something I wanted to post but didn't get a chance to because one of my neighbours showed up again unexpectedly and I accidentily closed what I had saved on Notepad.

But I do remember it was an ages old Dutch source that equated Thiania with Diana.

All hope is not lost, lol: if I found it once, I can find it again.

It must have been one of those memeories about something that never happened...

I was convinced that a long time ago I had found a source (like a Scarlensis, Hamconius or Scriverius) that mentioned Thiania and Diana in one go and said they were one and the same goddess. Apparently I have unconsciously connected things that were nor connected.

As you can read in a former post, the only thing that you will read is "Frisian Goddess 'Waldacha' = Diana".

But I have a bit of a problem equating Thiania (or Thianja) with Diana.
As Oharus showed, all the words in the OLB similar like Thiania have to do with "to serve", while the  Greek/Roman goddess Diana was a hunter goddess depicted with bow and arrow.

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Edited by Abramelin, 01 April 2012 - 10:57 AM.


#10892    Abramelin

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Posted 01 April 2012 - 10:23 AM

View PostKnul, on 01 April 2012 - 08:51 AM, said:

So far I located Kerenak in the Scottish Highlands in the area of the Caerenii or the Cornacii, but I did not locate the castle itself. Now I found the place on http://en.wikipedia....ames_in_Britain .

What I read on that image is something like 'Castle Cary' or 'Castle Caru', and the only castle that has a name that looks like it is "Castle Cary Castle" and it dates from the 15th century: http://en.wikipedia....tle_Cary_Castle

Is that the castle you meant, Menno?


#10893    Abramelin

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Posted 01 April 2012 - 11:14 AM

From what I have read here and there, the original goddess that was called "Thianja/Thjanja/Thiania" in the OLB was (like Puzz already said) of Etruscan origin, but was called "Tana". This name the Romans/Greeks later changed into "Diana" and possibly "Thianja". She was both mother and virgin and a moon goddess.


Aradia, or the Gospel of the Witches

CHAPTER IX
TANA AND ENDAMONE, OR DIANA AND ENDYMION

http://en.wikisource..._of_the_Witches

http://draeconin.com.../migrations.htm

http://www.sacred-te...radia/ara14.htm

+++++++++

EDIT:

The next is also interesting (and we discussed it before in this thread):

Tanfana or Tamfana was a goddess of the Istvaeones in ancient Germanic paganism, the destruction of whose temple in the territory of the Marsi is mentioned in Tacitus' Annals.

Since fana is Latin for "temples," it has been suggested that it was a temple to a god Tan, shortened from the German word for a pine-tree, Tanne, or that the first element meant "collective."[4][5] The division of the word was rejected by Grimm among others;[6] he called the name "certainly German," the -ana ending being also found in Hludana, Bertana, Rapana, and Madana.

A. G. de Bruyn, a scholar of Oldenzaal folklore, returned to splitting the name into Tan and fana on toponymic grounds and because of a stamp dated 1336 found near Ommen that shows a woman holding a fir tree flanked by a sun symbol and a catlike creature and a bird; he proposed that she was a moon or a mother goddess, perhaps related to the Carthaginian goddess Tanit.[16] He and more recently Rudi Klijnstra relate Tanfana, or Tan, to legends surrounding de Groote Steen te Oldenzaal (the Big Stone at Oldenzaal) in the area of Overijssel; the stone was originally located on a hill called Tankenberg, the highest point in the area, but was later moved into the city
.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanfana

Posted Image

On this seal is a woman with in her ​​hand a fir tree ( Tanne, alluding to Tan). Top left of her is a solar symbol, and she is flanked by a cat and a bird. The seal symbolizes the marriage of the moon goddess Tan with the sun, and after marriage she changed from a moon goddess into a mother.  The origin of the seal is completely pre-Christian, and the current insignia of Ommen, according to De Bruijn, is "a caricature and a proof of the shameful ignorance that prevails in our country concerning this subject." The Christians claimed Tan to be equal to the Irish Saint Brigida.  The old pagan customs for her devotion survived, such as burning an eternal flame.  The Irish clergy forbade this use in 1200.  In Noorbeek, Limburg, people still have the custom of erecting a pine tree in front of the chapel that is dedicated to Brigida in early February during the new moon. Finally, Tan has a sound-relationship with the old word for stone, "stan". This is the symbol for the earth, source of new life.  The cavities of the stone are also resting places for the souls of the dead.

http://www.nederland.../oldenzaal.html

++++++++

EDIT:

Otharus already suggested - following Halbertsma's suggestion - a possible relationship between Thianja and 'witches', in Frisian 'tjoenster'.

The whole chapter about Tanfana in De Bruijn's book talks about witches and witchcraft surrounding that stone in Oldenzaal.

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Edited by Abramelin, 01 April 2012 - 12:09 PM.


#10894    Abramelin

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Posted 01 April 2012 - 12:19 PM

Damn, here is a translation of that chapter of De Bruijn's book in English:

http://www.geocities...soldenzaal.html

The stamp of Ommen:

Posted Image


EDIT:

The possible relationship with the Phoenician "Tanit" (think "Theo Vennemann"..) is also interesting: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanit


EDIT:

But we (well, *I* do, lol) make a lot of fuss about a name for a goddess in the OLB who is only mentioned ONCE in it (and I don't mean all the derivations of the verb THIAN = to serve):


From the OLB:

THIS WRITING HAS BEEN GIVEN TO ME ABOUT NORTHLAND AND SCHOONLAND

(...)

Hail!

Whenever the Carrier has completed a period, then posterity shall understand that the faults and misdeeds that the Brokmannen have brought with them belonged to their forefathers; therefore I will watch, and will describe as much of their manners as I have seen. The Geertmannen I can readily pass by. I have not had much to do with them, but as far as I have seen they have mostly retained their language and customs. I cannot say that of the others. Those who descend from the Greeks speak a bad language, and have not much to boast of in their manners. Many have brown eyes and hair. They are envious and impudent, and cowardly from superstition. When they speak, they put the words first that ought to come last. For old they say at; for salt, sât; and for man, ma—too many to mention. They also use abbreviations of names, which have no meaning. The Joniers speak better, but they drop the H, and put it where it ought not to be. When they make a statue of a dead person they believe that the spirit of the departed enters into it; therefore they have hidden their statues of Frya, Fâsta, Medea, Thiania, Hellenia, and many others.


http://oeralinda.angelfire.com/#bq




.

Edited by Abramelin, 01 April 2012 - 12:50 PM.


#10895    The Puzzler

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Posted 01 April 2012 - 01:45 PM

Thiania does seem to be Diana imo.

http://draeconin.com.../migrations.htm

D become th in Welsh, Gaelic.

Kinda sounds like Athena too, but that would be Minerva or Hellenia I guess.

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#10896    Abramelin

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Posted 01 April 2012 - 01:53 PM

View PostThe Puzzler, on 01 April 2012 - 01:45 PM, said:

Thiania does seem to be Diana imo.

http://draeconin.com.../migrations.htm

D become th in Welsh, Gaelic.

Kinda sounds like Athena too, but that would be Minerva or Hellenia I guess.

She could be anything because not one single word about Thianja/Thjanja is said in the OLB.


#10897    Knul

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Posted 01 April 2012 - 02:30 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 01 April 2012 - 10:23 AM, said:

What I read on that image is something like 'Castle Cary' or 'Castle Caru', and the only castle that has a name that looks like it is "Castle Cary Castle" and it dates from the 15th century: http://en.wikipedia....tle_Cary_Castle

Is that the castle you meant, Menno?



I guess so. The below source gives an older date, which brings us more to 1256.


CASTLECARY CASTLE

Posted Image

The earliest known record of Castlecary comes from 1304 when a writ was sent from St Andrews to the sheriff of Stirling by King Edward I. It contained orders for the sheriff to bring all of the forces under his command to 'Chastel Kary' where they were to obey the orders of Sir Thomas de Morham, the eldest son of the laird of Dunipace, and Alwyn de Kalentir, laird of Callendar. There is place-name evidence for the existence of a motte and baillie there which would have been, in all likelihood, the fortalice of these lands at that time. The lordship of the estate lay in the hands of Lothian families from the fourteenth century but from the middle of the fifteenth we find a branch of the Livingstons resident there. First mention of these comes from 1450 when Robert, son of Henry Livingston of Manerstoun (near Blackness) was described as 'the late'. This record mentions that Robert had suffered forfeiture of the lands of Castlecary and Walton for 'high treason and the crime of les majestie'. Nevertheless, it is evident that a Livingston connection was re-established as Henry Livingston of Middilbyning (?Binns) had a dispute with several people regarding the lands in 1473. When Henry and his wife granted Castlecary and Walton to their son Patrick in 1491 the confirmation charter from the Crown contains the phrase: 'and also with a tower and fortalice and mansion to be newly constructed by the said Henry in the lands of Weltoun (Walton). This is the present castle and Patrick is the first encountered to be overtly titled 'of Castlecary'. Archibald Levyngstoun of Castlecary, on record in 1530  must have been the son or grandson of Patrick. Sometime soon after he invested Archibald Fawup as chaplain of the Chapel of the Blessed Virgin Mary in Linlithgow, he was 'slaughtered' by John Kerr who, subsequently, was beheaded for the crime. The family remained as the lairds there for several generations; the last to be designed 'of Castlecary' was Harry Livingston who died sometime in or around 1657. He was survived by his son John but he doesn't appear to have retained the lands. They came into the possession of the Baillie family; Patrick Baillie of Shirhill was there in 1685. This family remained until the early eighteenth century when the castle and lands were acquired by James Dundas when he married Bethia Baillie. James was then designed 'of Castlecary'. He belonged to the family of Dundas who held the estate of Kerse and were to become the Earls of Zetland.

John Reid 2005

The following article shows that the area traces back to Roman times:

Castlecary, a spot near the western border of Falkirk parish, SE Stirlingshire, on the left bank of the Red Burn, and on the Forth and Clyde Canal, the Edinburgh and Glasgow section of the North British railway, and the Gartsherrie and Greenhead section of the Caledonian, 2½ miles NE of Cumbernauld, and 6½ W by S of Falkirk. One of the principal stations on Antoninus' Wall was here, and was connected by an iter with the S. What with the ploughshare, and what with builders in quest of stones for their dykes, it now is wholly effaced; but many Roman antiquities have been found on and near its site-urns, coins, weapons, altars, etc. Castlecary Castle is an old square tower, 40 feet high, with walls of 5 feet thickness, a spiral staircase, secret passages, and an eastern addition bearing date 1679. Burned by a party of Highlanders in the '15, it is now the property of the Earl of Zetland, and is kept in tolerable repair. At the top of its garden is a noble yew, girthing 8¼ feet at 1 yard from the ground. The Red Burn's glen to the W, a rich field for the botanist, here forms the boundary between Dumbarton and Stirling shires, and is crossed hy a splendid eight-arched viaduct of the Edinburgh and Glasgow railway. Castlecary station on that railway is just beyond; in the winter of 1872-73 it was very severely damaged by a singular subsidence, due to great mining excavations for limestone. See pp. 72-76 of Proceedings of the Alloa Society (1875).

Here is more information on the Roman times. Strange to find the Batavians here.


Antonine Wall Fort

Castlecary, Central
NGRef: NS7978
OSMap: LR64
Type: Antonine Wall Fort
Posted ImageRoadsAntonine Wall: E (2¼) to Seabegs (Central)
Antonine Wall: W (2½) to Westerwood (Strathclyde)
The Romans first built a camp here possibly during the fourth campaign season of governor Gnaeus Julius Agricola around AD81. Evidence of this period comes in the form of first-century glass and samian pottery, first-century bronze coins and 'pre-Hadrianic' pottery. Emplacements for the use of ballistae, onagri and other such Roman artillery have been identified within the ramparts.

Within the ramparts the Antonine fort at Castlecary measures 455 feet from WSW to ENE by 350 feet transversely (139 x 107 m) enclosing an area of 3½ acres (c.1.4 ha). The fort rampart was constructed of stone, unlike the turf-built Wall itself, the footings of which were 8 ft. (2.4 m) wide, set upon a foundation of boulders 9 ft wide and up to 3 ft deep (2.7 x 0.9 m).

Excavated in 1902, the Castlecary fort was one of several - including Balmuildy and Rough Castle - which were found to show signs of devastation during the middle of the second century.


The Epigraphic Evidence

Centurial Stone Recording Building Work at the Fort
CHO VI > ANTOARATI"The sixth cohort, century of Antonius Aratus [made this]."
(RIB 2156)There have been eleven inscriptions on stone recovered from the Castlecary fort and subsequently recorded in the R.I.B.. Nine of the eleven are altarstones and six mention military units; all but one of these texts are shown on this page.


Roman Legionary Forces Attested at Castlecary
<a href="http://www.roman-bri...y/2augusta.htm" name="rib2146">
Altar to Fortuna by Detachments from the Sixth and the Second Legions
FORTVNAE VEXILLATIONES LEG II AVG LEG VI VIC P F P L L"To Fortuna, the detachments from the Second Augustan Legion and the Sixth Victorious Legion, Loyal and Faithful, gladly and freely place this."
(RIB 2146; altarstone)<a href="http://www.roman-bri...y/6victrix.htm" name="rib2148">
Altar to Mercurius by Soldiers of the Sixth Legion
DEO MERCVRIO MILITES LEG VI VICTRICIS PIE F AEDEM ET SIGILLVM CIVES ITALICI ET NORICI V S L L M"To the god Mercury, the soldiers of the Sixth Victorious Legion, Loyal and Faithful, made this temple and its reliefs, gladly, willingly and deservedly in fulfillment of their vow."
(RIB 2148; altarstone)<a href="http://www.roman-bri...y/6victrix.htm" name="rib2151">
Altar to the Mother Goddesses from a Vexillation of the Sixth
G IVL SPERATVS N MAT VE... LEG VI V P F V S L L M"Giaus Julius Speratus and the detachment of the Sixth Victorious Legion, Loyal and Faithful, to the divine spirits of the mother [goddesses], willingly, gladly and deservedly fulfill their vow."
(RIB 2151; altarstone)
Peregrine Auxiliary Units at Castlecary

Cohors Primae Vardullorum - The First Cohort of Vardulli
DEO NEPTVNO COHORS I FID VARDVL C R EQ M CVI PRAEST TREBIVS VERVS VERVS PRAEF"To the god Neptune, the First Cohort of Vardulli, Citizens of Rome, part-mounted, one-thousand strong, under the command of the prefect Trebius Verus."
(RIB 2149; altarstone)
Cohors Primae Batavorum - The First Cohort of Batavi
COH I BAT"The First Cohort of Batavians [dedicates this]."
(RIB 2154; altarstone)
Cohors Primae Tungrorum - The First Cohort of Tungri
IMP CAES T AEL ANT AVG PIO P P COH I TVNGRORVM FECIT M"For Imperator Caesar Titus Aelius Antoninus Augustus Pius, Father of his Country, the First Cohort of Tungrians made this record."
(RIB 2155; dated: AD139-61)This one-thousand strong auxiliary infantry unit was very-likely split between the fort here on the Antonine Wall and another fort at Cramond (vide RIB 2135) on the south bank of the Firth of Forth.


The Gods of Roman Castlecary

Altar to the Mother Goddesses
MATRIB MILITES VEXILLATIO ..."To the Mother Goddesses, the soldiers of the detachment [...]"
(RIB 2147; altarstone)There are nine inscribed altarstones dedicated to various deities; one to the goddess Fortune (RIB 2146), one to the Messenger god Mercury (RIB 2148), another to Neptune the god of the sea (RIB 2149), and one to the Mother Goddesses (RIB 2147), maybe two (RIB 2151); also perhaps one dedicated to Britannia (RIB 2152).


Possible Altar to Britannia
BRITTON... V S L L M"To Britain [...] willingly, gladly and deservedly fulfilling a vow."
(RIB 2152; altarstone)There is one altarstone which reads DEAE or simply "for the goddess" (RIB 2150), evidently in honour of an unknown female deity, also another altarstone to an unknown god or goddess dedicated by Cohors Primae Batavorum (RIB 2154 supra), while the remaining altarstone remains difficult to decipher (RIB 2153; not shown).


Material Evidence from Castlecary

The Dateable Pottery Evidence
The pottery recovered from the site implies (sporadic?) occupation from Flavian to Antonine times. There are two noteable pieces of first-century decorated ware; a fragment with ovulo of a type also found at Pompeii and dated c.AD75-90, also a fragment with a 'trident tongue' design dated c.90-110. A piece of samian ware of Form 27 bears the stamp of the Flavian-Trajanic potter L. Ter- Sec-. There are examples of nine Antonine potters stamps: Draucus on a piece of Form 31, and eight Form 33 sherds by the potters Aestivus, Albinus, Cintusmus, Cracuna, Priscus, Sacirapo, Cadgatus and Libertus; the last two potters were formerly identified as Flavian.


The Numismatic Evidence
Only seven coins have been recovered from Castlecary, a denarius of Mark Antony, an as of Nero, 2 denarii of Trajan and 3 coins of Hadrian.


Other Notable Finds
Fragments of a straight Roman military trumpet known as a tuba have been found within the confines of the Castlecary defences. The conical tube of thinly-worked bronze had almost completely fragmented, but the much thicker metal in the bronze mouthpiece survived.


s. http://www.roman-bri.../castlecary.htm




Edited by Knul, 01 April 2012 - 03:01 PM.


#10898    Knul

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Posted 01 April 2012 - 03:10 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 01 April 2012 - 10:23 AM, said:

What I read on that image is something like 'Castle Cary' or 'Castle Caru', and the only castle that has a name that looks like it is "Castle Cary Castle" and it dates from the 15th century: http://en.wikipedia....tle_Cary_Castle

Is that the castle you meant, Menno?

Posted ImageSize of this preview: 800 × 411 pixels. Other resolutions: 320 × 165 pixels | 640 × 329 pixels | 1,024 × 527 pixels.Full resolution‎ (1,513 × 778 pixels, file size: 257 KB, MIME type: image/jpeg)

Cary shows similarity to CAERENI, which overpowered the whole nordic area. The OLB tells, that the area originally was Celtic, but got in the hands of the Gauls.  Askar conquered Kerenak. This is a very important message in the OLB, because it shows, that this was the beginning of the Friesic influence on England and it fits in the idea of Halbertsma, that modern English - true or not - has been derived from Friesic. If you compare the length of the text on Kerenak with e.g. on Misselia, it is obvious that Kerenak was much more important to the author. As the name is explained: it was even chosen.

Edited by Knul, 01 April 2012 - 03:45 PM.


#10899    Abramelin

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Posted 01 April 2012 - 03:36 PM

I see you have been busy too, Menno.

Aboout Scotland, what does Hamconius write about "forte Caledonio" here:

HAMCONIUS-Caledonia.jpg


From:

Martini Hamconii Frisia sev De viris rebvsqve Frisiae illvstribvs libri dvo - Martinus Hamconius,Pierius Winsemius / 1670

http://books.google....epage&q&f=false


#10900    Abramelin

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Posted 01 April 2012 - 03:43 PM

According to Van den Bergh and Buddingh, Hamconius was the one to depict/describe the Frisian goddess "Wald-acha" with a bow, like the Greek/Roman Diana:

Nederlandsche volksoverleveringen en godenleer - Laurent Philippe Charles van den Bergh

http://books.google....epage&q&f=false

WALDACHA-Hamcomius-vdBergh.jpg

Verhandeling over het Westland, ter Opheldering der Loo- en, Woerden - Derk Buddingh

http://books.google....mconius&f=false

WALDACHA-Hamconius-Buddingh.jpg

And so I tried to find some description (or image) in Hamconius book about this Wald-acha, but I failed.

.

Edited by Abramelin, 01 April 2012 - 03:52 PM.


#10901    Abramelin

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Posted 01 April 2012 - 03:45 PM

However, I found where he describes how the Frisians may have reached Mexico (silver mines) and Chile (settled a colony there),but I can't understand all of it:

HAMCONIUS - Frisia - Mexico - Chile.jpg

Mind you, this is supposed to have happened several centuries before Columbus.

And that I got from the South American source I have posted about (a book that used Hamconius as one of its sources).

From what I remember this should have happened somewhere around the 10th or 11th century.

Not much help for the OLB, but in itself - if true - quite stunning.


EDIT:

View PostAbramelin, on 29 February 2012 - 10:40 AM, said:

It may have been the attraction of trade, Christian conviction, or the simple quest, but according to Adam of Bremen, writing about 1070 AD, regular troops of Netherlanders set off from the Zwin and sailed first to Scotland before touching at Iceland, Greenland and ultimately America.

[xxxiii] These seafaring visits include, in their retelling, a fair amount of fantastic happenings (eg, giants, the discovery of gold, fortified cities and the like) which might be interpreted as later additions or a medieval copywriter’s embellishments. Since little archaeological record exists to substantiate these claims, they remain a tantalizing hint of direct expeditions to the New World before Columbus from the Low Countries.[xxxiv]

-

[xxxiii] For Adam of Bremen in modern translation please see Francis J. Tschan, (trans. & ed.), History of the archbishops of Hamburg-Bremen, (New York: Columbia University Press, 2002). Adam of Bremen calls these Netherlanders “Frisians” since at that time Robert of Frisia was Count of Flanders (1071-1093). For the only detailed discussion of Netherlanders sailing for America I am aware of in a modern tongue please see Charles Van den Bergh, “Nederlands Aanspraak op de Ontdekking van Amerika voor Columbus”, in Bijdragen voor Vaderlandsche Geschiednis en Oudheidkunde Verzameld en Uitgegeven door Is. An. Nijhoff, VII (1850), pp.23-33.

[xxxiv] See Martinus Hamconius, writing before 1620, who claims that Netherlanders reached the mines of Mexico and settled Chile in Charles Van den Bergh, “Nederlands Aanspraak", op.cit., pp.30-33.


http://flemishameric...a-part-one.html

View PostAbramelin, on 27 February 2012 - 12:49 AM, said:

EL DESCUBRIMIENTO DE CHILE POR LOS FRISIOS

THE DISCOVERY OF CHILE by the Frisians

http://www.aforteano...os en chile.htm

http://translate.goo...0en%20chile.htm



===


El descubrimiento de Chile por los frisios en el siglo XI - José Toribio Medina/1910

http://books.google....AAJ&redir_esc=y

.

.

Edited by Abramelin, 01 April 2012 - 04:26 PM.


#10902    Otharus

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Posted 01 April 2012 - 03:48 PM

Great posts, folks!

Nice to see this thread evolve again.

Not too much on-topic, but still fun ~

~ ~ ~ the Westfrisian roots of Angelina Jolie.

Angelina Jolie, born 1975 Los Angeles (California)
daughter of
Marcheline Bertrand, born 1950 Riverdale (Illinois)
daughter of
Lois June Gouwens, born 1928 Cook County (Illinois)
daughter of
Royal Gerrit Gouwens, born 1906 (Illinois)
son of
Annie Koedijker, born 1872 Sint Maarten (North-Holland)
daughter of
Grietje Delver, born c.1845 Zijpe (North-Holland)
daughter of
Trijntje Krabman, born c.1816 Sint Maarten (North-Holland)
daughter of
Dirk Krabman, born c.1785 Schagen (Westfriesland)
son of
Floris Krabman & Maartje Bras, Barsingerhorn (Westfriesland)

Posted Image
http://fryskednis.bl...03/mothers.html

Edited by Otharus, 01 April 2012 - 04:39 PM.


#10903    Abramelin

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Posted 01 April 2012 - 04:49 PM

I would like to see her in the role of "Adela":

Posted Image

:wub:


#10904    Otharus

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Posted 01 April 2012 - 04:51 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 01 April 2012 - 04:49 PM, said:

I would like to see her in the role of "Adela":

Posted Image

:wub:
That's already something we agree full 100%...

:wub:

... I will do auditions for to be the 'Foddik'.

Edited by Otharus, 01 April 2012 - 04:53 PM.


#10905    Otharus

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Posted 01 April 2012 - 04:56 PM

ANGEL.INA JOL

Yule, Juul, Yol

:ph34r:

Her grandmother's 'oma', 'Antje van Koedyk' was born in 1872 in Sint Maarten (North-Holland), between Enkhuizen and Den Helder.

The year that the OLB was purst fiblished with Dutch translation.

Her parents and family will surely have heard about it and read the discussions in the papers.

(As have my ancestors of that time, they all lived there.)

Edited by Otharus, 01 April 2012 - 05:04 PM.