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[Archived]Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood


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#10921    Otharus

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 02:41 PM

View PostAlewyn, on 09 February 2012 - 09:02 PM, said:

I hope you will not laugh out too loud and that you will pardon my getting a bit philosophical, but this is how I see this epitaph: “Do not pass in haste, for here lies Adela”

If the OLB is real, we owe our glimpse into this forgotten history and people to this lady. The Oera Linda Book is her legacy. These words then speak directly to us; more than 2500 years later!

One can almost interpret them to mean:

“Do not deny her life but take time to reflect on what Adela ovira Linda gave to the world.”

Just imagine anyone of us leaving a legacy that will still be of significance 2500 years hence, say,  in the year 4500 AD!
Almost two months after Alewyn posted this, I'd like to add that I still like it.

Here in the Netherlands, april is the month of philosophy.

So let's get philosophical about the OLB.

Fact, fiction, or a bit of both ~ what can we learn from it?

What would be relevant to reflect on in our present time?

Edited by Otharus, 03 April 2012 - 02:43 PM.


#10922    Abramelin

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 02:44 PM

View PostOtharus, on 03 April 2012 - 02:41 PM, said:

Almost two months after Alewyn posted this, I'd like to add that I still like it.

Here in the Netherlands, april is the month of philosphy.

So let's get philosophical about the OLB.

Fact, fiction, or a bit of both ~ what can we learn from it?

What would be relevant to reflect on in our present time?

And the month starts with April Fool's Day.

Sorry, I just had to, lol.

#10923    Abramelin

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 03:11 PM

Another map from Overwijn's book about the OLB people might be interested in:

(Click on the thumbnail, and when the larger pic opens, click again on it; it's quite huge)

Posted Image

Another one:

Posted Image

.

Edited by Abramelin, 03 April 2012 - 03:30 PM.


#10924    Otharus

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 04:06 PM

Apologies to those who can't read Dutch, but this (untranslatable) poem by François Haverschmidt (1852, written under pseudonym 'Piet Paaltjens') just begs to be added to this thread. Note the highlighted (by me) fragment.

(Source: http://cf.hum.uva.nl...jens/fries.html )

De Friesche poëet

I

De Harlinger stoomboot schommelt
Over de Zuiderzee
Van Stavoren naar Enkhuizen.
Een dichter schommelt mee.

Kwijnend rust op de verschansing
De zangrige elleboog.
Glazig staart naar Friesland
Het bleekblauw poëtenoog.

Soms is 't of een klaaglied
De schampre lippen ontstijgt.
De hofmeester denkt, dat mijnheer dan
Een aanval van zeeziekte krijgt.

Och, de hofmeester is niet onmooglijk
Een mensch met een edel hart,
Maar, al meent hij het goed, hij heeft geen
Verstand van dichterssmart.

En ik denk, dat is maar goed ook;
Want kende de man die pijn,
Hoe zou hij nog voor de betrekking
Van hofmeester bruikbaar zijn? -

"Vaarwel!" ruischt het van de verschansing
Naar het langzaam wegblauwend strand,
"Vaarwel! mijn diepverbasterd,
En toch mijn vaderland!

Wat al waatren rolden grimmig
Uw vernederde terpen voorbij,
Sinds in eigen taal uw kindren
Konden zeggen "wij, Friezen, zijn vrij!"

Naar ploeg en koestal vluchtte
Uw taal, eenmaal Holland's schrik,
Om uw steden te zien verzinken
In allerlei vreemde kwik.

Uw adel ligt op sterven;
Dat prachtig, koppig ras,
Dat, om voor een koning te buigen,
Te stijf eens van knieën was.

En begraven zijn ze op een paar na
Uw dochters van edel bloed
Met het oorijzer om den schedel
En de schaatsen onder den voet.

Friesche jonkers solliciteeren
Om een postjen als ambtenaar
En nemen zich tot vrouwen
Friezinnen - met los haar!"

Een ontzaglijk-hoonende tandknars
Bezegelt het slotakkoord,
En "help!" gilt de man aan het stuurrad,
"Een passagier overboord!"

Te laat! de poëet is verdwenen
In de diepte van 't dansend meer.
Slechts zijn pet vindt men acht dagen later
Op de kust van Wieringen weer.

II

In overoude tijden,
Toen men nog geen stoomboten had,
Lag er halfweg tusschen Enkhuizen
En Staavren een bloeiende stad.

Haar koene schippers brachten
Haar schatten van heinde en veer,
En onder haar kooplui telde
Zij meer dan één millionair.

Maar - wat ziet men gebeuren -
't Geld maakte haar kooplieden grootsch.
Toen streken de elementen
Over haar het vonnis des doods.

Op zeekren morgen kon men
In de Leeuwarder krant zien staan,
Hoe het trotsche Oud-Staavren eensklaps
In de Zuiderzee was vergaan.

Sinds verliepen er honderden jaren;
En men hield het er algemeen voor,
De bodem der zee droeg langer
Van Oud-Staavren geen enkel spoor.

Slechts vond men er nog op Schokland,
Die zwoeren bij kris en bij kras,
Dat er onder in de diepte
Nog heel wat over was.

Een oude visscher beweerde:
Hij was dikwijls door klokgelui,
Dat uit de zee opkwam, gewaarschuwd
voor een naderende onweersbui.

De torenklok van Oud-Staavren
Die moest dat hebben gedaan.
Had zijn vader niet eens het uurwerk
In dien toren halfacht horen slaan?

III

De dichter is verdwenen
In de diepte van 't dansende meer.
Hij zinkt als een steen. En Eindlijk
Komt hij in Oud-Stavoren neer.

Want, ja, wat die goede Schokkers
In hun eenvoud steeds hebben beweerd,
Dat is waar: de verdronken koopstad
Bestaat nog ongedeerd.

Haar muren zijn nog stevig;
Haar torens zijn nog hoog;
Slechts is er alles drijfnat,
Wat er eenmaal als kurk was zoo droog.

En op haar pleinen en straten,
Van menschengedruis een vol,
Daar zwemmen nu stilzwijgend
Tarbot en schelvisch en schol.

In haar achterbuurten leeft het
van krab en slak en garnaal,
En kabeljauw vult met bruinvisch
Op het raadhuis de groote zaal. -

Tot allerlei bochten zich wringend
En van benauwdheid loodblauw
Zinkt de dichter-drenkeling neder
Op de stoep van een deftig gebouw.

Stuiptrekkend beweegt hij den klopper.
O wonder! de poortdeur wijkt,
En de zanger drijft den gang in.
Maar is daar niet, of hij bezwijkt.

IV

Hoelang de gezonken poëet wel
Bewustloos gelegen heeft,
Dat zou ik niet kunnen zeggen.
Genoeg, - de man herleeft.

Hij heft de gevoelvolle blikken,
Maar twijfelt schier aan hun trouw;
Vlak toch tegenover zich ziet hij
Een wonderschone vrouw.

Haar gitzwarte lokken golven
Langs een voorhoofd van elpenbeen
Over leliewitte schouders
En een sneeuwblanken boezem heen.

Haar wenkbrauwen buigen zich prachtig
Boven oogen van lazuur,
Beschaduwd door zware wimpers
En tintlend van prettig vuur.

Een neusje, Venus waardig,
Scheidt haar wangen, wier zachte gloed
De rozen beschaamt, maar voor 't blosje
Van haar lipjes nog tanen moet.

Ivoren tandjes glinstren,
Zoo vaak haar mondje lacht;
En de mollige kin bergt een kuiltje,
Dat stil naar een kusje smacht.

V

De dichter begrijpt er niets van;
Maar eindelijk waagt hij het toch
De vreemde schoone te vragen:
"Waar ben ik?" en "leef ik nog?"

En als kristal klinkt haar antwoord:
"Mijn lieve landgenoot,
Gij zit hier in Oud-Staavren,
En ge zijt volstrekt niet dood.

Gelukkig voor u bewoon ik
Hier een waterdicht lokaal,
Waar ik versche lucht kan krijgen
Door een onderzeesch kanaal.

Nog even bijtijds ontdekte ik,
Hoe gij spartelde op de stoep ....
Doch al praatjes genoeg! Gij hebt honger,
Eet dus eerst een dit bordje soep.

Dat zal u goeddoen, mijn jongen!
Ik zelf heb ze klaargemaakt.
En drink er dit glas Pommies bij;
Die weet ik dat lekker smaakt.

Ga u daarna eens goed verdrogen,
En - kom dan in mijn arm;
Dan, voor den drommel, kus ik
U nog eens ouderwets warm!"

VI

"Vergeef mij," huivert de dichter,
"'t Is onbescheiden misschien,
Maar mag ik ook vragen, wat dame
  de eer heb vóór mij te zien?" -

En de schoone glimlacht: "Wel zeker!
- maar eet ondertusschen voort, -
Ik ben dat weeuwtje van Staavren,
Daar ge mooglijk wel van hebt gehoord;

Die een lading Dantziger tarwe
Aan stuurboord in zee werpen liet ....
Maar, man, waar wordt ge zoo bleek van?
Dat hindert u, hoop ik, toch niet?"

"Dat geval met die Dantziger tarwe,
Mevrouw, is te lang geleên,
Om mij nu nog te kunnen hindren,
Al was het dan ook - gemeen.

Maar wat mij van lust om te eten
En om u te kussen berooft,
Is, dat gij, beboren Friezinne,
Geen oorijzer draagt om uw hoofd.

Maar wat mij zóó vreeslijk ergert,
Dat de wang er mij van verbleekt
Is, dat ook het weeuwtje van Staavren
Gebroken-Hollandsch spreekt
.

Verbasterd is mijn Friesland
Tot op de bodem der zee.
Ik heb genoeg van het leven.
Drink zelf uw flesch Pommies."

Zoo galmt de rampzalige dichter
En vliegt de voordeur uit.
Nog een korte strijd, - en de haaien
Verdelen hun zangrigen buit.


#10925    Otharus

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 07:12 PM

Found two treasures:

Bediedinge van de tot noch toe onbekende afgodinne Nehalennia
(Service of the untill-now-unknown goddess/ idol Nehalennia)
by Marcus Zuerius Boxhorn (1647)

http://books.google....epage&q&f=false

and

Taalkundige aanmerkingen op eenige Oud-Friesche spreekwoorden
(Linguistic notes to some Old-frisian proverbs)
by Jacob Henrik Hoeufft (1812)

http://books.google....epage&q&f=false

#10926    Abramelin

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 07:45 PM

View PostOtharus, on 03 April 2012 - 07:12 PM, said:

Found two treasures:

Bediedinge van de tot noch toe onbekende afgodinne Nehalennia
(Service of the untill-now-unknown goddess/ idol Nehalennia)
by Marcus Zuerius Boxhorn (1647)

http://books.google....epage&q&f=false

and

Taalkundige aanmerkingen op eenige Oud-Friesche spreekwoorden
(Linguistic notes to some Old-frisian proverbs)
by Jacob Henrik Hoeufft (1812)

http://books.google....epage&q&f=false

Great find Otharus.

I will start with reading the first one ( I've downloaded it already).

.

Edited by Abramelin, 03 April 2012 - 07:48 PM.


#10927    Abramelin

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 09:10 AM

Vaderlandsch woordenboek, Volume 16 - Jacobus Kok,Jan Fokke / 1786

http://books.google....e&q=395&f=false

It contains 200 pages about the history of the Frisians and Friesland (and yes, in Dutch...alas).

#10928    Abramelin

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 11:20 AM

In this thread the Brit-Am site has been mentioned several times (Theo Vennemann).

Now - searching for another thread - I found this site, and the one who created that site considers the ones who created the Brit-Am site as nothing short of racists and superstitious idiots, lol.

OK, it will be a long read, but interesting nevertheless (and read what he says about Askenazi/Skandinavia/Sken...):

The Peoples of the North

http://www.imninalu....03.htm#Ashkenaz



The "Lost Tribes" of Israel

- They Are NOT British -


http://www.imninalu....myths-brits.htm

#10929    Knul

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 07:09 PM

For those still interested in the OLB here is the text of C.P. Burger, who comments on the book of M. de Jong Hzn: http://rodinbook.nl/olbburger.html (text in Dutch only).

#10930    Abramelin

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 07:15 PM

View PostKnul, on 06 April 2012 - 07:09 PM, said:

For those still interested in the OLB here is the text of C.P. Burger, who comments on the book of M. de Jong Hzn: http://rodinbook.nl/olbburger.html (text in Dutch only).

There are many people interested in the OLB, but as long as we all (the Dutch that is) only post from/about Dutch sources, they will eventually back out.

What would you do on a thread about the "Book of Veles", and you had to wade through Cyrillian posts only?

You would quit, right?

OK, so you studied Slavic languages, and so you would hang on a little bit longer. But most non-Slavic people would say 'bye'.

#10931    Knul

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 07:48 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 06 April 2012 - 07:15 PM, said:

There are many people interested in the OLB, but as long as we all (the Dutch that is) only post from/about Dutch sources, they will eventually back out.

What would you do on a thread about the "Book of Veles", and you had to wade through Cyrillian posts only?

You would quit, right?

OK, so you studied Slavic languages, and so you would hang on a little bit longer. But most non-Slavic people would say 'bye'.

You misunderstood. I have not read anything about the OLB for ages. Anyone interested in Dutch texts can use Google translator.

#10932    Abramelin

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 08:11 AM

View PostKnul, on 07 April 2012 - 07:48 AM, said:

You misunderstood. I have not read anything about the OLB for ages. Anyone interested in Dutch texts can use Google translator.

Last post was about Overwijn's maps in his book about the OLB: April 3d. Scroll up and you will see.

Google translator cannot translate Dutch texts in old spelling (from before around the 70's of the past century), and even when it translates from modern Dutch the translation most often sucks. Just look at the tome you posted a week or so ago: you had obviouslsy used an online translator, but never bothered to check what it made of your Dutch original.

It also cannot translate Dutch texts from scans.

You should realize that much of the online nonsense about the OLB is based on the fact that most non-Dutch who write about the OLB cannot read the Dutch texts and sources we are able to read as the Dutch we are (or Belgiums and South Africans).

If I can find it again, I will post a link to a not that old thread about the OLB on the 'ForumSkadi' board. Then you will get an idea what I mean.

+++

EDIT:

Here it is, and read the posts by "ordruf":

http://forums.skadi....ght=Oera&page=3

.

Edited by Abramelin, 07 April 2012 - 08:21 AM.


#10933    Abramelin

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 10:28 AM

OK Menno, you want more that is directly connected to the OLB.

The OLB "Texland" was located in what we now know of as the island of Texel which was also called "Texla" in medieval times. According to some etymologies it may have meant"Zuidland" or "South Land". It was some sort of capital (-area) of the Fryan empire, and was the jurisdictional and administrative center (well, that's how I understood it).

What do people often do when they have to flee their country or leave it out of free will to resettle in a new country? They will build a new city and give it the name of the capital of their home country.

Otharus once came up with "Tessaloniki", I came up with this:

View PostAbramelin, on 15 September 2011 - 06:10 PM, said:

-1- Ptolemy's "Geography" was most probably one of the sources of the OLB;

-2- Frisians have been in contact with the Scots for many ages, and even settled there;

-3- Even earlier Frisians may indeed have come from 'Texla' (one of the ancient names of the isle of Texel/Tessel. Texel and other parts of the Netherlands got catastrophically flooded around 350 or 360 BC, according to an old Frisian source I have talked about a long time ago) and settled in the area on Ptolemy's map that was inhabited by the 'Taexali';

Intermezzo (from an old post of mine):

The 17th century Frisian historian Chr. Schotanus wrote this about the Cymbrian Flood:

About the year 360 or 350 before the birth of Jesus Christ a terrible flood, caused by violent storms, hit all the sea coasts of Germany, a flood that destroyed many cattle and people. This first and oldest flood which can be remembered, could also have ripped all the islands on the Frisian coast from the mainland, and have created many inlets and lakes because formerly the mouths of the rivers ended up in them through narrow entrances.



-4- I will bet a dime that those/the one who created the OLB knew that (some of) these Scottish hillforts (in the area where the Taexali lived) were called "Laws".


I have not yet found the word 'tex' as meaning 'law' in Old Frisian (it should be something like 'rjucht' in real Old Frisian), but combining the 4 points I mentioned, I think I know how the creators of the OLB made it up.

.


And - while busy for another thread - I found this:

Taxila (Urdu: ٹیکسلا) is a Tehsil in the Rawalpindi District of Punjab province of Pakistan. It is an important archaeological site. Taxila is situated about 32 km (20 mi) northwest of Islamabad Capital Territory and Rawalpindi in Panjab; just off the Grand Trunk Road. Taxila lies 549 metres (1,801 ft) above sea level.

The city dates back to the Gandhara period and contains the ruins of the Gandhāran city of Takṣaśilā which was an important Hindu and Buddhist centre, and is still considered a place of religious and historical sanctity in those traditions

-

Scattered references in later works indicate that Takshashila may have dated back to at least the 5th century BCE.

-

Taxila is called Taxiala in Ptolemy’s Geography
.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxila


Tehsil:

Generally, a tehsil consists of a city or town that serves as its headquarters, possibly additional towns, and a number of villages. As an entity of local government, it exercises certain fiscal and administrative power over the villages and municipalities within its jurisdiction. It is the ultimate executive agency for land records and related administrative matters
.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tehsil


A few quotes from the OLB:

At last they landed at the Punjab, called in our language the Five Rivers, because five rivers flow together to the sea. Here they settled, and called it Geertmania.

-

After we had been settled 12 times 100 and twice 12 years in the Five Waters (Punjab), whilst our naval warriors were navigating all the seas they could find, came Alexander the King, with a powerful army descending the river towards our villages.

-

Punjab, that is five rivers, and by which we travel, is a river of extraordinary beauty, and is called Five Rivers, because four other streams flow into the sea by its mouth. Far away to the eastward is another large river, the Holy or Sacred Ganges. Between these two rivers is the land of the Hindoos. Both rivers run from the high mountains to the plains. The mountains in which their sources lie are so high that they reach the heavens (laia), and therefore these mountains are called Himmellaia.

-

On their arrival our forefathers likewise established themselves to the east of the Punjab, but on account of the priests they likewise went to the west. In that way we learned to know the Yren and other people.

-

On the west of the Punjab where we come from, and where I was born, the same fruits and crops grow as on the east side. Formerly there existed also the same crawling animals, but our forefathers burnt all the underwood, and so diligently hunted all the wild animals, that there are scarcely any left. To the extreme west of the Punjab there is found rich clay land as well as barren heaths, which seem endless, occasionally varied lovely spots on which the eye rests enchanted
.

http://oeralinda.angelfire.com/

.

Edited by Abramelin, 07 April 2012 - 10:57 AM.


#10934    Abramelin

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 10:40 AM

Posted Image

http://www.imninalu....IndusValley.htm

More about Taxila here: http://www.livius.or...xila/taxila.htm

From the last link:

Taxila was the capital of a kingdom that was called Hinduš (or Indus-country) and consisted of the western half of the Punjab. It was added to the Achaemenid empire under king Darius I the Great, but the Persian occupation did not last long. There are no archaeological traces of the presence of western armies in the Punjab, although in 2002, archaeologists have claimed to have found a Persian building.

When the Macedonian conqueror Alexander the Great occupied Gandara and the Punjab in 326, the Indian kingdoms had already regained their independence. King Ambhi of Taxila, who is called Taxiles ("the man from Taxila") and Omphis in the Greek sources, had invited Alexander in 329, because he needed support against king Porus (Indian: Puru) of Pauravas, a state that was situated in the eastern Punjab. Alexander did what he had been asked to do: he defeated Porus on the banks of the river Hydaspes (modern Jhelum). However, he unexpectedly allied himself to Porus, and forced Ambhi and Porus to reconcile themselves. Leaving the region, he left behind an occupation force of Macedonian and Greek veterans under a satrap named Philip. When this man was murdered in 325, Alexander sent a Thracian Eudamus to share the reign with Ambhi
.


From the OLB:

After we had been settled 12 times 100 and twice 12 years in the Five Waters (Punjab), whilst our naval warriors were navigating all the seas they could find, came Alexander the King, with a powerful army descending the river towards our villages.

http://oeralinda.angelfire.com/

.

Edited by Abramelin, 07 April 2012 - 11:01 AM.


#10935    Knul

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 01:32 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 07 April 2012 - 10:28 AM, said:

OK Menno, you want more that is directly connected to the OLB.

The OLB "Texland" was located in what we now know of as the island of Texel which was also called "Texla" in medieval times. According to some etymologies it may have meant"Zuidland" or "South Land". It was some sort of capital (-area) of the Fryan empire, and was the jurisdictional and administrative center (well, that's how I understood it).

What do people often do when they have to flee their country or leave it out of free will to resettle in a new country? They will build a new city and give it the name of the capital of their home country.

Otharus once came up with "Tessaloniki", I came up with this:




And - while busy for another thread - I found this:

Taxila (Urdu: ٹیکسلا) is a Tehsil in the Rawalpindi District of Punjab province of Pakistan. It is an important archaeological site. Taxila is situated about 32 km (20 mi) northwest of Islamabad Capital Territory and Rawalpindi in Panjab; just off the Grand Trunk Road. Taxila lies 549 metres (1,801 ft) above sea level.

The city dates back to the Gandhara period and contains the ruins of the Gandhāran city of Takṣaśilā which was an important Hindu and Buddhist centre, and is still considered a place of religious and historical sanctity in those traditions

-

Scattered references in later works indicate that Takshashila may have dated back to at least the 5th century BCE.

-

Taxila is called Taxiala in Ptolemy's Geography
.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxila


Tehsil:

Generally, a tehsil consists of a city or town that serves as its headquarters, possibly additional towns, and a number of villages. As an entity of local government, it exercises certain fiscal and administrative power over the villages and municipalities within its jurisdiction. It is the ultimate executive agency for land records and related administrative matters
.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tehsil


A few quotes from the OLB:

At last they landed at the Punjab, called in our language the Five Rivers, because five rivers flow together to the sea. Here they settled, and called it Geertmania.

-

After we had been settled 12 times 100 and twice 12 years in the Five Waters (Punjab), whilst our naval warriors were navigating all the seas they could find, came Alexander the King, with a powerful army descending the river towards our villages.

-

Punjab, that is five rivers, and by which we travel, is a river of extraordinary beauty, and is called Five Rivers, because four other streams flow into the sea by its mouth. Far away to the eastward is another large river, the Holy or Sacred Ganges. Between these two rivers is the land of the Hindoos. Both rivers run from the high mountains to the plains. The mountains in which their sources lie are so high that they reach the heavens (laia), and therefore these mountains are called Himmellaia.

-

On their arrival our forefathers likewise established themselves to the east of the Punjab, but on account of the priests they likewise went to the west. In that way we learned to know the Yren and other people.

-

On the west of the Punjab where we come from, and where I was born, the same fruits and crops grow as on the east side. Formerly there existed also the same crawling animals, but our forefathers burnt all the underwood, and so diligently hunted all the wild animals, that there are scarcely any left. To the extreme west of the Punjab there is found rich clay land as well as barren heaths, which seem endless, occasionally varied lovely spots on which the eye rests enchanted
.

http://oeralinda.angelfire.com/

.

That's better.



Now I have a question (related to this):

MS 136 r. 13 reads KASAMYR ÐET IS SJELDSUM - Kasjmir means rare. Where did the author get this meaning from ? Volney ? Sanskrit or Urdu ? I have not yet found the explanation.

Edited by Knul, 07 April 2012 - 01:42 PM.