11638 replies to this topic

[Abramelin]

What we need to do is find some haplo group that is specific for NW Europe of around 4000 BP, and then try to see if skeletons of the same age from the Punjab turn up with this same haplo group.

And only in the Punjab or the area nearby.

.

Edited by Abramelin, 16 April 2012 - 01:35 PM.

[cormac mac airt]

Abramelin, on 16 April 2012 - 01:33 PM, said:

What we need to do is find some haplo group that is specific for NW Europe of around 4000 BP, and then try to see if skeletons of the same age from the Punjab turn up with this same haplo group.

And only in the Punjab or the area nearby.

.

I think someone's going to be severely disappointed in trying to make that connection. As the relevant haplogroups of Northwestern Europe, to include Denmark, would be the following:

I1:  c.2000 - 4000 BC

I2b-M436:  c.7300 BC

I2b1a-M284:  c.1870 BC

R1b1a2a1a1b4/R-L21:  c.6514 +/- 1911 BC

mtDNA U:  c.13,400 BP

mtDNA U5 and immediate subgroups:  From c.7200 - 1500 BC

While the relevant groups of India would be:

F:  from c.60,000 BP

H:  from c.30,000 - 40,000 BP

L:  from c.25,000 - 30,000 BP

C*, C5 and L1:  currently undated

mtDNA M:  c.60,600 BP

mtDNA R:  c.66,600 BP

cormac

[Abramelin]

cormac mac airt, on 16 April 2012 - 04:35 PM, said:

I think someone's going to be severely disappointed in trying to make that connection. As the relevant haplogroups of Northwestern Europe, to include Denmark, would be the following:

I1:  c.2000 - 4000 BC

I2b-M436:  c.7300 BC

I2b1a-M284:  c.1870 BC

R1b1a2a1a1b4/R-L21:  c.6514 +/- 1911 BC

mtDNA U:  c.13,400 BP

mtDNA U5 and immediate subgroups:  From c.7200 - 1500 BC

While the relevant groups of India would be:

F:  from c.60,000 BP

H:  from c.30,000 - 40,000 BP

L:  from c.25,000 - 30,000 BP

C*, C5 and L1:  currently undated

mtDNA M:  c.60,600 BP

mtDNA R:  c.66,600 BP

cormac

Thanks Cormac,

But you have an -H- haplo group in your list, and this is what I posted before:

A study published by Yuval Itan and colleagues in 2010 [4] clearly shows this. A study published in 2009, also by Itan et al.,[5] suggests that the Linear Pottery culture (also known as Linearbandkeramik or LBK), which preceded the TRB culture by some 1,500 years, was the culture in which this trait started to co-evolve with the culture of dairying. Ancient DNA extracted from three individuals ascribed to a TRB horizon in Gökhem, Sweden, were found to possess mtDNA haplogroups H, J, and T.

http://en.wikipedia....ty_and_language

The -H- haplo group appears to show up in much more recent times.

And please excuse me: reading about genetics is like studying some ancient Chinese dialect to me, lol.

I do not want to pretend I understand it, because I just don't.

But tell me: should we try to track down a Punjab -H- haplo group??

[cormac mac airt]

Abramelin, on 16 April 2012 - 05:11 PM, said:

Thanks Cormac,

But you have an -H- haplo group in your list, and this is what I posted before:

A study published by Yuval Itan and colleagues in 2010 [4] clearly shows this. A study published in 2009, also by Itan et al.,[5] suggests that the Linear Pottery culture (also known as Linearbandkeramik or LBK), which preceded the TRB culture by some 1,500 years, was the culture in which this trait started to co-evolve with the culture of dairying. Ancient DNA extracted from three individuals ascribed to a TRB horizon in Gökhem, Sweden, were found to possess mtDNA haplogroups H, J, and T.

http://en.wikipedia....ty_and_language

The -H- haplo group appears to show up in much more recent times.

And please excuse me: reading about genetics is like studying some ancient Chinese dialect to me, lol.

I do not want to pretend I understand it, because I just don't.

But tell me: should we try to track down a Punjab -H- haplo group??

It would be meaningless Abe as the Haplogroup H found in India is Y Chromosome Haplogroup H and not the mitochondrial H that you posted about.

cormac

Edited by cormac mac airt, 16 April 2012 - 06:00 PM.

[Abramelin]

I shouldn't have said anything, lol.

[cormac mac airt]

Abramelin, on 16 April 2012 - 08:21 PM, said:

I shouldn't have said anything, lol.

No, you asked a decent question and it was an honest mistake. However, anyone trying to use genetics to validate the OLB is going to have an easier time threading themselves through the eye of a needle. In short, there is no validation.

cormac

[The Chez]

This is a known hoax and money scam, please don't fall for it! It's exactly the same as the 'Kolbrin Bible' a hoax and a scam. I imagine both of these hoaxes are making a guest appearence to help woo artists fuel the 2012 'apocalypse' hoax. Many of these scam books can be found for sale on 2012 proponent sites, along with many other hoax books inked up by bored frat kids and basement dwelling adult children trying to make a bit of cash by selling fear.

Don't fall for it, and see if you can report people selling it in your country to your trading standards/consumer watchdog agencies.

[The Puzzler]

cormac mac airt, on 16 April 2012 - 09:34 PM, said:

No, you asked a decent question and it was an honest mistake. However, anyone trying to use genetics to validate the OLB is going to have an easier time threading themselves through the eye of a needle. In short, there is no validation.

cormac

You don't see anything in this?

G2a3b1a is found uniformy throughout Europe, even in Scandinavia and Russia. More importantly, G2a3b1 is also found in India, especially among the upper castes. The combined presence of G2a3b1 across Europe and India is a very strong argument in favour of an Indo-European origin. The coalescence age of G2a3b1 also matches the time of the Indo-European expansion during the Bronze Age.
http://www.eupedia.c...G2a_Y-DNA.shtml

[cormac mac airt]

The Puzzler, on 17 April 2012 - 01:10 AM, said:

You don't see anything in this?

G2a3b1a is found uniformy throughout Europe, even in Scandinavia and Russia. More importantly, G2a3b1 is also found in India, especially among the upper castes. The combined presence of G2a3b1 across Europe and India is a very strong argument in favour of an Indo-European origin. The coalescence age of G2a3b1 also matches the time of the Indo-European expansion during the Bronze Age.
http://www.eupedia.c...G2a_Y-DNA.shtml

G2a3b1 originates about 5000 BP (3000 BC) in the Middle East and therefore IS NOT Western European in origin. So therefore irrelevant to the discussion.

cormac

[The Puzzler]

cormac mac airt, on 17 April 2012 - 03:00 AM, said:

G2a3b1 originates about 5000 BP (3000 BC) in the Middle East and therefore IS NOT Western European in origin. So therefore irrelevant to the discussion.

cormac

Why would we need to look for anything that's Western Euro ORIGIN? Who said the Geertmen had to have Western European ORIGINATing dna haplogroup? But I get your point.

I think the haplogroup needs to be in North Western Europe 1800BC but not necessarily originate there - but certainly have some Germanic/North Europe type in it.

If anything I guess, that G2a3b1 haplogroup seems to have spread West, which might indicate the Magyar coming in from the East... not the Geertmen going East (as I first suggested).

Edited by The Puzzler, 17 April 2012 - 03:30 AM.

[The Puzzler]

The Chez, on 17 April 2012 - 12:49 AM, said:

This is a known hoax and money scam, please don't fall for it! It's exactly the same as the 'Kolbrin Bible' a hoax and a scam. I imagine both of these hoaxes are making a guest appearence to help woo artists fuel the 2012 'apocalypse' hoax. Many of these scam books can be found for sale on 2012 proponent sites, along with many other hoax books inked up by bored frat kids and basement dwelling adult children trying to make a bit of cash by selling fear.

Don't fall for it, and see if you can report people selling it in your country to your trading standards/consumer watchdog agencies.

OK, thanks for the warning.  

[Abramelin]

The Chez, on 17 April 2012 - 12:49 AM, said:

This is a known hoax and money scam, please don't fall for it! It's exactly the same as the 'Kolbrin Bible' a hoax and a scam. I imagine both of these hoaxes are making a guest appearence to help woo artists fuel the 2012 'apocalypse' hoax. Many of these scam books can be found for sale on 2012 proponent sites, along with many other hoax books inked up by bored frat kids and basement dwelling adult children trying to make a bit of cash by selling fear.

Don't fall for it, and see if you can report people selling it in your country to your trading standards/consumer watchdog agencies.

You have any idea when this book was published?

I should add: the Oera Linda Book, not Alewyn's book that started this thread. And nor the OLB nor Alewyn's book has anything to do with 2012.

.

.

Edited by Abramelin, 17 April 2012 - 06:09 AM.

[Otharus]

Abramelin, on 16 April 2012 - 01:33 PM, said:

And only in the Punjab or the area nearby.

That is no logic.

The OLB mentions a few places where some of the Frya's went, not where they did NOT go.

[Otharus]

Just an interesting fact:

British Library St. Cuthbert Gospel: Manuscript Copy Of The Gospel Of John Sold for $14.3 Million

LONDON -- The British Library has paid 9 million pounds (US$14.3 million) to acquire the St. Cuthbert Gospel, a remarkably well-preserved survivor of seventh-century Britain described by the library as the oldest European book to survive fully intact.

Source: http://www.huffingto..._n_1430254.html

Wiki: http://en.wikipedia....Cuthbert_Gospel

[Abramelin]

Otharus, on 17 April 2012 - 07:28 AM, said:

That is no logic.

The OLB mentions a few places where some of the Frya's went, not where they did NOT go.

But that's where they lived and stayed for ages. So if the story is true, it's the most likely place to look for genetic evidence.

However, Cormac showed it would be useless to even try.

.

Edited by Abramelin, 17 April 2012 - 07:45 AM.