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[Archived]Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood


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#11116    Otharus

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 07:45 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 17 April 2012 - 07:38 AM, said:

But that's where they lived and stayed for ages. So if the story is true, it's the most likely place to look for genetic evidence.
Yes it's a good place to look for genetic and cultural (like linguistic) eveidence.

But you said "and only in the Punjab or the area nearby", which is no logic.

Edited by Otharus, 17 April 2012 - 07:45 AM.


#11117    Abramelin

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 08:13 AM

View PostOtharus, on 17 April 2012 - 07:45 AM, said:

Yes it's a good place to look for genetic and cultural (like linguistic) eveidence.

But you said "and only in the Punjab or the area nearby", which is no logic.

Maybe no logic, but I have a good reason:

Some of the Kalash people in their own traditions claim to be descendants of Alexander the Great's soldiers,[4] however, extensive genetic testing has shown no connection.[5] The Kalash's origins have fascinated anthropologists due to the unusually high frequency of light hair, skin, and eyes (particularly green). Some Pashtuns and Persians have been known to have blond hair or green eyes.

http://en.wikipedia....i/Kalash_people


The Nuristani people's closest relation is to the Kalash people. Furthermore, they have very little genetic relation to neighbouring ethnic groups like Pashtuns and Kashmiris. This is because they have always remained isolated in the mountains which has led them to become a genetically isolated population. [1] It is also speculated that Nurestani people are of different origin altogether assimilated in the region at at some point of time in history.

http://en.wikipedia....people#Genetics

Photo of a Nuristani girl:
http://upload.wikime..._01-07-2002.jpg


Posted Image


#11118    Otharus

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 08:47 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 17 April 2012 - 08:13 AM, said:

Some of the Kalash people in their own traditions claim to be descendants of Alexander the Great's soldiers,[4] however, extensive genetic testing has shown no connection.[5] The Kalash's origins have fascinated anthropologists due to the unusually high frequency of light hair, skin, and eyes (particularly green). Some Pashtuns and Persians have been known to have blond hair or green eyes.

http://en.wikipedia....i/Kalash_people
Interesting, but I am skeptical about the value of genetic testing, as I am skeptical about more of modern scientific methods and theories, specially in the field of medical science.

I finished a medical-scientific (with the emphasis on scientific) education (MSc) at the Free University of Amsterdam in 1996.


#11119    Abramelin

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 09:14 AM

View PostOtharus, on 17 April 2012 - 08:47 AM, said:

Interesting, but I am skeptical about the value of genetic testing, as I am skeptical about more of modern scientific methods and theories, specially in the field of medical science.

I finished a medical-scientific (with the emphasis on scientific) education (MSc) at the Free University of Amsterdam in 1996.

But would you have said the same when these people would have had genetic links to Northern Europe?

Anyway, they are interesting people:

Their gods, like those of the ancient Greeks, are split up into male and female deities and they claim they once belonged to highly literate culture until their books were burned by barbarian tribes.

http://answers.yahoo...23071115AAIfZhq

But whatever is known about their religion, it doesn't resemble anything described in the OLB:

http://www.people.fa...shaReligion.pdf


#11120    The Puzzler

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 11:44 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 17 April 2012 - 08:13 AM, said:

Maybe no logic, but I have a good reason:

Some of the Kalash people in their own traditions claim to be descendants of Alexander the Great's soldiers,[4] however, extensive genetic testing has shown no connection.[5] The Kalash's origins have fascinated anthropologists due to the unusually high frequency of light hair, skin, and eyes (particularly green). Some Pashtuns and Persians have been known to have blond hair or green eyes.

http://en.wikipedia....i/Kalash_people


The Nuristani people's closest relation is to the Kalash people. Furthermore, they have very little genetic relation to neighbouring ethnic groups like Pashtuns and Kashmiris. This is because they have always remained isolated in the mountains which has led them to become a genetically isolated population. [1] It is also speculated that Nurestani people are of different origin altogether assimilated in the region at at some point of time in history.

http://en.wikipedia....people#Genetics

Probably because they came from Afghanistan in the 2nd century BC.

The Kalash are known as indigenous people of Chitral, and their ancestors migrated to Chitral from Afghanistan in the 2nd century BC.[1] It is thought the Kalash descendants migrated to Afghanistan from a distant place in South Asia, which the Kalash call “Tsiyam” in their folk songs and epics.
http://en.wikipedia....i/Kalash_people

--------------------------

Some group of R1a could easily have been in the Punjab imo.

R1a has been found in high frequency at both the eastern and western ends of its core range, for example in India and Tajikistan on the one hand, and Poland on the other.

I think you mentioned this part Abe:

The remains of a father and his two sons, from an archaeological site discovered in 2005 near Eulau (in Saxony-Anhalt, Germany) and dated to about 2600 BCE, tested positive for the Y-SNP marker SRY10831.2.[31] The R1a1 clade was thus present in Europe at least 4600 years ago, in association with one site of the widespread Corded Ware culture.
http://en.wikipedia....roup_R1a_(Y-DNA)

Edited by The Puzzler, 17 April 2012 - 11:46 AM.

In an mmm bop it's gone...

#11121    cormac mac airt

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 12:32 PM

View PostOtharus, on 17 April 2012 - 08:47 AM, said:

Interesting, but I am skeptical about the value of genetic testing, as I am skeptical about more of modern scientific methods and theories, specially in the field of medical science.

I finished a medical-scientific (with the emphasis on scientific) education (MSc) at the Free University of Amsterdam in 1996.

You're entitled to your skepticism, but neither it nor your education in 1996 invalidates, in any way, what has been learned from the studies of genetics/archaeogenetics since then. It won't go away just because you don't want to believe it.

cormac

The city and citizens, which you yesterday described to us in fiction, we will now transfer to the world of reality. It shall be the ancient city of Athens, and we will suppose that the citizens whom you imagined, were our veritable ancestors, of whom the priest spoke; they will perfectly harmonise, and there will be no inconsistency in saying that the citizens of your republic are these ancient Athenians. --  Plato's Timaeus

#11122    Abramelin

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 02:35 PM

View PostThe Puzzler, on 17 April 2012 - 11:44 AM, said:

Probably because they came from Afghanistan in the 2nd century BC.

Yes, if you look at the map I posted, you'll see they live near the border of Afghanistan and the Punjab.


#11123    Knul

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 03:04 PM

For those interested, you will find here a new transcription of the OLB, directly derived from the original pages of the book in possession of Cornelis over de Linden: http://rodinbook.nl/...tetekstolb.html. In this transcription all changes by Ottema have been eliminated.


#11124    Otharus

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 03:24 PM

View Postcormac mac airt, on 17 April 2012 - 12:32 PM, said:

It won't go away just because you don't want to believe it.
It's not my intention to make it disappear, I just don't know enough about it to simply believe it.
Until I know more facts, I will remain skeptical (just like you are skeptical about the OLB, not knowing very much about it).

I'm not a 'religious believer' in science (or anything else), because I know that there can be much disagreement between various researchers, and that the ones who pay for the research, more than often determine its outcome.

That will only have become worse since the nineties.


#11125    cormac mac airt

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 03:40 PM

View PostOtharus, on 17 April 2012 - 03:24 PM, said:

It's not my intention to make it disappear, I just don't know enough about it to simply believe it.
Until I know more facts, I will remain skeptical (just like you are skeptical about the OLB, not knowing very much about it).


I'm not a 'religious believer' in science (or anything else), because I know that there can be much disagreement between various researchers, and that the ones who pay for the research, more than often determine its outcome.

That will only have become worse since the nineties.

The difference between us being that while you might be skeptical of something you do not understand (genetics) I don't have to be skeptical of the OLB when many of the alleged "facts" attributed to or otherwise associated with it, within this very thread, are actually NOT as factual as some have presented. At best, this thread is based on a faulty premise and after 742 pages it still remains that way.

cormac

The city and citizens, which you yesterday described to us in fiction, we will now transfer to the world of reality. It shall be the ancient city of Athens, and we will suppose that the citizens whom you imagined, were our veritable ancestors, of whom the priest spoke; they will perfectly harmonise, and there will be no inconsistency in saying that the citizens of your republic are these ancient Athenians. --  Plato's Timaeus

#11126    Otharus

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 05:57 PM

View Postcormac mac airt, on 17 April 2012 - 03:40 PM, said:

At best, this thread is based on a faulty premise and after 742 pages it still remains that way.
This thread is merged and about much more than the original question whether there was a flood  circa 2190 BC.


#11127    Otharus

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 06:00 PM

View Postcormac mac airt, on 17 April 2012 - 03:40 PM, said:

... you might be skeptical of something you do not understand (genetics)
Not knowing enough about something is not the same as not understanding it.


#11128    cormac mac airt

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 06:14 PM

View PostOtharus, on 17 April 2012 - 05:57 PM, said:

This thread is merged and about much more than the original question whether there was a flood  circa 2190 BC.

As if that's the only "fact" that's been touted as true concerning the OLB, in this thread. Not hardly.  :rolleyes:

Quote

Not knowing enough about something is not the same as not understanding it.

There's enough information out there now on genetics studies that if you still don't know enough then you obviously aren't understanding it.

cormac

The city and citizens, which you yesterday described to us in fiction, we will now transfer to the world of reality. It shall be the ancient city of Athens, and we will suppose that the citizens whom you imagined, were our veritable ancestors, of whom the priest spoke; they will perfectly harmonise, and there will be no inconsistency in saying that the citizens of your republic are these ancient Athenians. --  Plato's Timaeus

#11129    jakegriffin

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 07:02 PM

The OLB described how some of them was expelled from Athens in ca 1550 BC and fled to India. This ties up exactly with the Avesta and Rig-Veda scriptures(Dating back to ca. 1500 BC). This also exactly the time when iron working commenced in India.


#11130    Abramelin

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 07:11 PM

View Postjakegriffin, on 17 April 2012 - 07:02 PM, said:

The OLB described how some of them was expelled from Athens in ca 1550 BC and fled to India. This ties up exactly with the Avesta and Rig-Veda scriptures(Dating back to ca. 1500 BC). This also exactly the time when iron working commenced in India.

A Halbertsma - just to name one - was acquainted with the Vedas, and Buddhism.