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[Archived]Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood


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#1291    Alewyn

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 04:16 AM

View Postcormac mac airt, on 12 October 2010 - 02:01 AM, said:

A general series of events over time may have occurred, but nothing specifically dating to c.2193 BC - 2200 BC.  From your own website:



This would, for the most part be wrong as while the Old Kingdom did end c.2195 BC, the Akkadian Empire ended with Shar-Kali-Sharri c.2100 BC; the (mature) Harappan (Indus Valley Civilization) ended c.1900 BC, well AFTER your 2200 BC date; and the Hongsan (presumably Hong(s)han culture had long ended c.2900 BC. The IVC as a whole lasted long after 1900 BC and DID NOT collapse, therefore, circa 2200 BC.



“Somewhat” is a huge understatement if there ever was one. You’ve even taken the Burckle Crater, tentatively dated to c.2800 BC and moved it forward in time 600 years to make it fit the 2200 BC date. This doesn’t prove the OLB isn’t a hoax, either. Not only is there no bath water to throw out, you haven’t even presented evidence of a baby, not to mention a tub for both.



And yet, in all your research, you missed this “basic mathematics“.



You can stand by and believe whatever you wish, but that belief is wholly unevidenced in the archaeological or geological record.



It stands to reason, IMO, that if Steven Dutch's explanation is correct, then in order for an impactor or impactors to move the core separately from the mantle, it would take a comparable amount of energy to do it globally as it would have taken to change the earths axis. Again this would wipe out all life on the planet. There should also be widespread geological phenomena dating to only 4200 years ago. Why is there none?

cormac
Man, I don't know where you get your facts from but they are wrong. Herewith accepted end dates:

1. Old Kingdom (Egypt) c 2200 BC (at least you agree on this one).

2. Akkadian Empire (Weiss, Courty and numerous others): c.2200 BC e.g.
  “Skeletal Evidence for health and disease at Bronze Age Tell Leilan, Syria” by H.G. McKenzie
“Lying within the Habur Plains of northem Syria, Tell Leilan was continuously occupied for
more than three millennia until its sudden abandonment around 2200 BC.”

3. Harrapan Civilization: c.2200 BC
“The Harappan Civilization and Myth of Aryan ‘Invasion’” From The Hindustan Times By Dr. N.S. Rajaram
"Further, there is profuse archaeological evidence including the presence of sacrificial altars that go to show that the Harappans were part of the Vedic aryan fold. As a result, it can safely by said that the Vedic age also ended with the Harappan civilization."
"From all this it is clear that the loss of these sites must have been associated with some natural catastrophe."
"On the basis of extensive explorations carried out in Northern Mesopotamia, a joint French-American team led by H. Weiss of Yale University has determined that most of the old world civilization were severely affected by a prolonged drought that began about 2200 B.C. and persisted for about 300 years. The most drastically hit region seems to have been the Akkadian civilization neighbouring India. The drought may have been triggered by massive volcanic eruptions. According to the findings of this historic study concluded only recently:
"At approximately 2,200 B.C., occupations of Tell Leilan and Tell Brak (in Northern Mesopotamia) were suddenly abandoned...a marked increase in aridity and wind circulation, subsequent to a volcanic eruption, induced considerable degradation in land use conditions.... this abrupt climatic change caused abandonement of Tell Leilan, regional desertion, and collapse of the Akkadian empire based in southern Mesopotamia. Synchronous collapse in adjacent regions suggests the impact of abrupt climatic change was excessive."
"An end uncannily like that of the Harappans. The authors of this momentous study note that the collapse of the Akkdians more or less coincided with similar climate change, land degradation and collapse noted in the Aegean, Palestine, Egypt, and India. The date of 1900 BCE given by S.R. Rao for the collapse of the Harappans should be seen as approximate"

Now strangely we find the Oera Linda "Hoax" mentioning the same date - in the 19th century?

You keep on saying there is no archaelogical evidence. This is only because you are not aware of it. I could quote  numerous sources but, I am afraid, nothing will get you out of your denial. If you are really interested, check it out yourself.

You do not have the foggiest idea about the Oera Linda Book yet you want to express an opinian about it. Not very professional, is it?

As for your last comment it clearly demonstrates that you do not have any idea about the physics of waves and wave energy. To help you a bit, herewith something from Wiki:
"In physics, resonance is the tendency of a system (usually a linear system) to oscillate with larger amplitude at some frequencies than at others. These are known as the system's resonant frequencies (or resonance frequencies). At these frequencies, even small periodic driving forces can produce large amplitude oscillations, because the system stores vibrational energy."
And no, you do not need anything near the size of impacts described by Steven Dutch.

Edited by Alewyn, 12 October 2010 - 04:29 AM.


#1292    Otharus

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 06:08 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 11 October 2010 - 09:55 PM, said:

You use Sandbach's translation, and even one of your supporters, Otharus, thinks you shouldn't.
That is not true, I just said it begs for improvement.
So do the translations by Ottema and Jensma in my opinion (the others I don´t know).

edit:
Abram, you claim you can read OLB in one hour, you don´t take the effort to read Alewyn´s book (that you apparently recieved as a gift) and you systematically ignore relevant evidence that does not support your belief system.

I wonder why you spend so much time on this forum.

Edited by Otharus, 12 October 2010 - 06:26 AM.


#1293    cormac mac airt

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 06:20 AM

Quote

2. Akkadian Empire (Weiss, Courty and numerous others): c.2200 BC e.g.
“Skeletal Evidence for health and disease at Bronze Age Tell Leilan, Syria” by H.G. McKenzie
“Lying within the Habur Plains of northem Syria, Tell Leilan was continuously occupied for more than three millennia until its sudden abandonment around 2200 BC.”

Sorry, but Tell Leilan does not comprise the entirety of the Akkadian Empire.

Quote

"At approximately 2,200 B.C., occupations of Tell Leilan and Tell Brak (in Northern Mesopotamia) were suddenly abandoned...a marked increase in aridity and wind circulation, subsequent to a volcanic eruption, induced considerable degradation in land use conditions..

Even two sites do not constitute the entirety of the Akkadian Empire. At best this would appear to show that a couple of Akkadian sites ended around that time IN NORTHERN MESOPOTAMIA with the remaining southern sites ending at some later point in time. Again, not a complete collapse c.2200 BC. "Subsequent to a volcanic eruption" does not mean impactor.

Quote

…most of the old world civilization were severely affected by a prolonged drought that began about 2200 B.C. and persisted for about 300 years

This is not evidence of a sudden collapse, which is what you’ve claimed.

Quote

The date of 1900 BCE given by S.R. Rao for the collapse of the Harappans should be seen as approximate"

This is another example of where your own quote belies your claim. This approximation is still 300 years after your claim.

Quote

I could quote numerous sources…

You haven’t quoted anything useful, yet.

Quote

You do not have the foggiest idea about the Oera Linda Book yet you want to express an opinian about it.

I told you before, I could care less about the OLB. What I do care about is how your re-interpreting the known facts to say what you want them to say. As already mentioned, even your own quotes DO NOT say that everything collapsed in 2200 BC.

I’ll tell you what, you can talk to me about physics when you’ve shown you actually have an impactor TO TALK ABOUT. Just on size alone Chicxulub, at an estimated 6 MILES in diameter, shows no evidence of doing anything like what you are proposing. It would be rather hard to miss something even 1/10th that size, particularly c.2200 BC. Yet it assisted in speeding up the extinction of the dinosaurs and many other life forms. As is, just on the subject of volcanoes alone, there were the following within about 150 years of your date and they weren’t unusual in quantity or volume:

Quote

HACHIJO-JIMA Izu Islands (Japan) T 2050 BC (?) 5
ILIAMNA Southwestern Alaska C 2050 BC (?) P
COTOPAXI Ecuador T 2050 BC (?) 5
MASHU Hokkaido (Japan) G 2050 BC ± 40 years 4
IZU-TOBU Honshu (Japan) G 2100 BC ± 100 years 4
SHIVELUCH Kamchatka Peninsula (Russia) G 2100 BC (?) 5
CAMPI FLEGREI Italy C 2150 BC ± 500 years 5
CHANGBAISHAN Eastern China C 2160 BC ± 100 years P
SHIVELUCH Kamchatka Peninsula (Russia) T 2200 BC (?) 4+
KARYMSKY Kamchatka Peninsula (Russia) G 2250 BC (?) 4
GALUNGGUNG Java (Indonesia) C 2250 BC ± 150 years 5?
ARENAL Costa Rica T 2250 BC (?) 4
ORIZABA, PICO DE México C 2300 BC ± 75 years 4
HEKLA Southern Iceland G 2310 BC ± 20 years 5
BURNEY, MONTE Southern Chile G 2320 BC ± 100 years 5
ST. HELENS Washington (USA) G 2340 BC (?) 5

Large Holocene Eruptions

cormac

Edited by cormac mac airt, 12 October 2010 - 06:24 AM.

The city and citizens, which you yesterday described to us in fiction, we will now transfer to the world of reality. It shall be the ancient city of Athens, and we will suppose that the citizens whom you imagined, were our veritable ancestors, of whom the priest spoke; they will perfectly harmonise, and there will be no inconsistency in saying that the citizens of your republic are these ancient Athenians. --  Plato's Timaeus

#1294    Alewyn

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 06:51 AM

View Postcormac mac airt, on 12 October 2010 - 06:20 AM, said:

Sorry, but Tell Leilan does not comprise the entirety of the Akkadian Empire.



Even two sites do not constitute the entirety of the Akkadian Empire. At best this would appear to show that a couple of Akkadian sites ended around that time IN NORTHERN MESOPOTAMIA with the remaining southern sites ending at some later point in time. Again, not a complete collapse c.2200 BC. "Subsequent to a volcanic eruption" does not mean impactor.



Perhaps I have confused you by giving too much information, so I'll keep it simple:
"An end uncannily like that of the Harappans. The authors of this momentous study note that the collapse of the Akkdians more or less coincided with similar climate change, land degradation and collapse noted in the Aegean, Palestine, Egypt, and India."

If you had the sense to read the OLB (and heaven forbid) my book, you would be able to understand the logic and evidence presented - including where the volcanic activity fits in.


#1295    cormac mac airt

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 07:20 AM

If you had the sense to know that "more or less" does not specifically mean 2200 BC, nor 2193 BC, we wouldn't be having this discussion. 87 pages and nobody has shown any evidence of a flood specifically happening c.2193 BC (which BTW is what this thread is about), nor of any cultures collapsing in that timeframe between 2193 BC and 2200 BC, contrary to any claim that you may have made. The OLB aside, none of this can be attributed to one specific date as your own quotes have already shown.

cormac

The city and citizens, which you yesterday described to us in fiction, we will now transfer to the world of reality. It shall be the ancient city of Athens, and we will suppose that the citizens whom you imagined, were our veritable ancestors, of whom the priest spoke; they will perfectly harmonise, and there will be no inconsistency in saying that the citizens of your republic are these ancient Athenians. --  Plato's Timaeus

#1296    Alewyn

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 09:18 AM

View Postcormac mac airt, on 12 October 2010 - 07:20 AM, said:

If you had the sense to know that "more or less" does not specifically mean 2200 BC, nor 2193 BC, we wouldn't be having this discussion. 87 pages and nobody has shown any evidence of a flood specifically happening c.2193 BC (which BTW is what this thread is about), nor of any cultures collapsing in that timeframe between 2193 BC and 2200 BC, contrary to any claim that you may have made. The OLB aside, none of this can be attributed to one specific date as your own quotes have already shown.

cormac
O.K. Einstein, now read carefully what others have to say. Herewith an extract from a scientific web site and then still tell us that my conclusions (and the Oera Linda Book's date of 2193 BC)are wrong.

Society for Interdisciplinary Studies
http://www.sis-group.org.uk/

Comparative Stratigraphy of Bronze Age Destruction Layers around the World: Archaeological Evidence and Methodological Problems – Abstract of talk by Benny J Peiser.
(Liverpool John Moores University, School of Human Sciences, Byrom Street, Liverpool L3 3AF, UK. e-mail: B.J.Peiser[at]livjm.ac.uk)
Presented at the SIS Conference: Natural Catastrophes during Bronze Age Civilisations (11th-13th July 1997)

"During the last two decades, researchers have found evidence for abrupt climate change and civilisation collapse as well as sudden sea level changes, catastrophic inundations, widespread seismic activity and abrupt changes in glacial features at around 2200±200 BC. Climatological proxy data together with sudden changes in lacustrine, fluvial and aeolian deposits are clearly detectable at the Atlantic-Subboreal boundary in the archaeological, geological and dendrochronological records from around the world. A survey of ~500 excavation reports, research papers and scientific abstracts on late 3rd Millennium BC civilisation collapse and climate change was carried out in order to assess i) the nature, ii) the extent and iii) the chronology of sudden climatic and social downturns at this particular chronozone. This comparative study shows a significant pattern of abrupt glacial, eustatic, lacustrine, fluvial, pedological and geomorphic changes at around 4250±250 cal BP in many areas around the world. In addition, the majority of sites and cities (>1000) of the first urban civilisations in Asia, Africa and Europe appear to have collapsed at around the same time. Most sites in Greece (~260), Anatolia (~350), the Levant (~200), Mesopotamia (~30), the Indian subcontinent (~230), China (~20), Persia/Afghanistan (~50), Iberia (~70) which collapsed at around 2200±200 BC, exhibit unambiguous signs of natural calamities and/or rapid abandonment. The proxy data detected in the marine, terrestrial, biological and archaeological records point to sudden ecological, climatic and social upheavals which appears to coincide with simultaneous sea- and lake level changes, increased levels of seismic activity and widespread flood/tsunami disasters. The main problem in interconnecting this vast amount of data chronologically is the application of incoherent and imprecise dating methods in different areas of geological and climatological research. It is hypothesised that the globally detected evidence for sudden downturns at the Atlantic-Subboreal boundary is chronologically interconnected and that chronological diviations are mainly due to imprecise dating methods. Neither a seismic nor a climatic explanation for these significant natural and social disasters appear capable to account for the diversity of ecological alterations and great variety of damage features as well as the global extent of these events. Extra-terrestrial bodies, on the other hand, depending on their cometary constitution and their cohesive strength, can have catastrophic effects on the ecological system in a variety of patterns which match the glaciological, geological and archaeological features documented in this study."

Somebody else's views:
http://www.newparadi...d-geography.htm
Sacred Geography in Ancient Europe by Martin Gray

"In 3113 BC, the comet, known as Proto-Encke, collided with asteroids in the asteroid belt between Jupiter and Mars, resulting in the Taurid meteors widely associated with the Bronze Age. As this comet then passed near to the earth it caused massive geological and climatological influences, including destroying an estimated half of the infrastructure of Atlantis. In 2193 BC, the comet Proto-Encke, converging with the comets Oljato and Hale-Bopp, again passed the earth and caused global seismic disturbances, enormous tsunamis and massive socio-cultural changes."


#1297    cormac mac airt

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 11:03 AM

Quote

O.K. Einstein, now read carefully what others have to say. Herewith an extract from a scientific web site and then still tell us that my conclusions (and the Oera Linda Book's date of 2193 BC)are wrong.

Alewyn,

Remember back when I told you that we both knew that science gives dates with an error of margin. Well, your latest post just proved me right. Again, the dates given are 2200±200 BC meaning 2000 - 2400 BC and 4250±250 cal BP which is 2500 - 2000 BC. Ranges of 400 and 500 years. The only singular dates are for Proto-Encke which it never mentions actually hitting the Earth, but mentions having an effect on Atlantis. Atlantis, seriously??? These dates do not say that these events happened exactly in 2193 BC, which is what I've been saying all along. The fact that you don't get this is staggering. Your quote even says:

Quote

The main problem in interconnecting this vast amount of data chronologically is the application of incoherent and imprecise dating methods in different areas of geological and climatological research.


"Imprecise" in this regard means it can not be nailed down to a specific date. I can only assume at this point that you either have a comprehension problem, or you're purposefully fabricating your conclusion to give a date of specifically 2193BC.

cormac

The city and citizens, which you yesterday described to us in fiction, we will now transfer to the world of reality. It shall be the ancient city of Athens, and we will suppose that the citizens whom you imagined, were our veritable ancestors, of whom the priest spoke; they will perfectly harmonise, and there will be no inconsistency in saying that the citizens of your republic are these ancient Athenians. --  Plato's Timaeus

#1298    Alewyn

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 12:12 PM

View Postcormac mac airt, on 12 October 2010 - 11:03 AM, said:

Alewyn,

Remember back when I told you that we both knew that science gives dates with an error of margin. Well, your latest post just proved me right. Again, the dates given are 2200±200 BC meaning 2000 - 2400 BC and 4250±250 cal BP which is 2500 - 2000 BC. Ranges of 400 and 500 years. The only singular dates are for Proto-Encke which it never mentions actually hitting the Earth, but mentions having an effect on Atlantis. Atlantis, seriously??? These dates do not say that these events happened exactly in 2193 BC, which is what I've been saying all along. The fact that you don't get this is staggering. Your quote even says:



"Imprecise" in this regard means it can not be nailed down to a specific date. I can only assume at this point that you either have a comprehension problem, or you're purposefully fabricating your conclusion to give a date of specifically 2193BC.

cormac
Sigh.
No Son, you don't understand.
1. "Imprecise" in this regard means that the different science disciplines are using different methods of dating. If they would all use the same parameters, they could well derive at more accurate dates.
2. The date of 2193 BC given by the OLB falls exactly within this range. This tells me that the date given by the OLB is in all probability correct. Ask yourself: "Where did the OLB get this date from if the book is not authentic?"
3. Testing the OLB's date against numerous other sources such as History (Battle of Salamis, etc), archaeology (sacking of Troy, etc), Biblical chronology, etc, etc, confirms the date of 2193 BC. But then, you would not know that because you are not interested in the subject and would therefore not read any of it. Non of my arguments are based on single sources.
Example: If I prove  that a=b and b=c which then implies that a=c, you would keep on arguing that a cannot be equal to c because you missed the steps a=b and b=c. Untill you follow the whole argument, I would realy be wasting everybody's time by trying to convince you otherwise.
4. Why don't you Google "Proto-Encke" and see what numerous people have to say about the subject - from scientists to the adherents of Atlantis. BTW, the second site that I quoted (National Geographic's Martin Grey) I did so in terms of Proto Encke and not so much about Atlantis. Although I do not have an opinion about Atlantis, his explanation about Proto-Encke seems to follow the accepted theories. I have never been involved in any Atlatis theories or speculation.
5. I may just add that the list of impacts you posted earlier also falls exactly within this time span. You did post this in support of my theory, didn't you?


#1299    cormac mac airt

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 05:41 PM

Quote

1. "Imprecise" in this regard means that the different science disciplines are using different methods of dating. If they would all use the same parameters, they could well derive at more accurate dates.

Meaning that they haven't yet arrived at more accurate dates than the onces with a margin of error, which again doesn't validate your singular 2193 BC date.

Quote

3. Testing the OLB's date against numerous other sources such as History (Battle of Salamis, etc), archaeology (sacking of Troy, etc), Biblical chronology, etc, etc, confirms the date of 2193 BC.

The Battle of Salamis c.480 BC and Troy III which shows no evidence of being sacked, as you claim, are not evidence of an event in 2193 BC.

Quote

4. Why don't you Google "Proto-Encke" and see what numerous people have to say about the subject...

I have and none of them pin it down to a specific date of 2193 BC. What I see is that you will go any extent to 'prove' that the date of 2193 BC specifically, has any validity in ancient history. It doesn't. Your adherance to this one, singular date is what is working against you.

cormac

The city and citizens, which you yesterday described to us in fiction, we will now transfer to the world of reality. It shall be the ancient city of Athens, and we will suppose that the citizens whom you imagined, were our veritable ancestors, of whom the priest spoke; they will perfectly harmonise, and there will be no inconsistency in saying that the citizens of your republic are these ancient Athenians. --  Plato's Timaeus

#1300    Alewyn

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 06:50 PM

View Postcormac mac airt, on 12 October 2010 - 05:41 PM, said:

Meaning that they haven't yet arrived at more accurate dates than the onces with a margin of error, which again doesn't validate your singular 2193 BC date.



The Battle of Salamis c.480 BC and Troy III which shows no evidence of being sacked, as you claim, are not evidence of an event in 2193 BC.



I have and none of them pin it down to a specific date of 2193 BC. What I see is that you will go any extent to 'prove' that the date of 2193 BC specifically, has any validity in ancient history. It doesn't. Your adherance to this one, singular date is what is working against you.

cormac
No. All these dates prove the OLB's cedibility. Must I spell out everything to you?
I am afraid you have received much more attention than your lack of logic or deductive reasoning deserve. *Snip*

Edited by Karlis, 13 October 2010 - 05:36 AM.
Deleted condescending remark


#1301    cormac mac airt

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 07:04 PM

Quote

No. All these dates prove the OLB's cedibility.

What DATES (plural)? According to YOU and the OP, based on the OLB, everything collapsed in 2193 BC. There are no 'dates', there is one 'date'. The fact that you are taking all these other general timeframes and trying to cram them into the date of 2193 BC is what is galling. Even I'm of the opinion that an event or events happened over a relatively short period of time in the 3rd millenium BC to change history. However, I'm not conceited enough to believe that I can cram these events all into one specific date. That you apparently are indicates to me that you are not to be taken seriously.

cormac

The city and citizens, which you yesterday described to us in fiction, we will now transfer to the world of reality. It shall be the ancient city of Athens, and we will suppose that the citizens whom you imagined, were our veritable ancestors, of whom the priest spoke; they will perfectly harmonise, and there will be no inconsistency in saying that the citizens of your republic are these ancient Athenians. --  Plato's Timaeus

#1302    Abramelin

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 08:34 PM

View PostOtharus, on 12 October 2010 - 06:08 AM, said:

That is not true, I just said it begs for improvement.
So do the translations by Ottema and Jensma in my opinion (the others I don´t know).

edit:
Abram, you claim you can read OLB in one hour, you don´t take the effort to read Alewyn´s book (that you apparently recieved as a gift) and you systematically ignore relevant evidence that does not support your belief system.

I wonder why you spend so much time on this forum.

You just begged for improvement, right.

And Alewyn's book is close to 400 pages, the OLB is close to a couple of pages.

Btw, I already told you and everyone here why I spend so much time on this forum. *Snip*

Edited by Karlis, 13 October 2010 - 05:39 AM.
Deleted condescending remark


#1303    Abramelin

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 08:47 PM

View PostAlewyn, on 12 October 2010 - 06:50 PM, said:

No. All these dates prove the OLB's cedibility. Must I spell out everything to you?
I am afraid you have received much more attention than your lack of logic or deductive reasoning deserve. *Snip*

You have been proven wrong about the tilting of the earth's axis 2200 BC.

You even admitted you were wrong.

Don't start talking down on people because you feel frustrated.

Admit you  were wrong, and tell us you will publish a new edition of your book with lots of corrections.

*Snip*

Edited by Karlis, 13 October 2010 - 05:33 AM.
Deleted crude phrase


#1304    SlimJim22

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 09:52 PM

The recent catastrophism espoused by Clube and Napier, although based on scientific evidence (Asher, 1994; Clube, 1992; Clube and Napier, 1990), is eschewed by neo-Velikovskians. Their work is not embraced by astronomers either, in no small part because of the bad name given catastrophism by Velikovsky. According to Clube and Napier, the Holocene has been punctuated by energetic, episodic interaction with the dense portion of the Taurid-Encke complex [whose formerly active annual fireball storms, perhaps evocative of a flood, radiated from near the Pleiades in November] , providing an astronomically sound explanation for the sky-combat myths [and mankind's archetypal fear of comets] that concerned Velikovsky in Worlds in Collision. As Clube and Napier once observed, "Velikovsky is not so much the first of the new catastrophists...; he is the last in a line of traditional catastrophists going back to mediaeval times and probably earlier" (1984). There is, as Mr. Cochrane states, "unequivocal evidence of the Earth's cataclysmic recent history," but careening planets have nothing to do with it. The mythological and physical evidence are best explained by the work of Kobres, Mandelkehr, Clube and his co-workers. [More recently in Exodus to Arthur: Catastrophic Encounters with Comets (1999) tree-ring specialist Mike Baillie makes a strong presumptive case for a Taurid-related vector associated with the global climate crises, or _Klimasturze_, at 2354 B.C., 1628 B.C., 1159 B.C., 207 B.C., and A.D. 540. As Baillie explains, the deeds of Patrick, Arthur, and Beowulf can all be associated with comet/meteor-related phenomena in the sixth-century when also Chinese "dragons" fought, felling all the trees in the places they passed, a la Tunguska in June 1908.] [Work by Lars G. Franzen at Earth Sciences Centre, Goteberg, Sweden, confirms most of Baillie's dates. Enhanced concentrations of micro-meteorites in peat from Swedish, Irish, and Norwegian bogs show that the cosmic influx was high at 7000 BC, 3000 BC, 2300 BC, 1700 BC, 1000 BC, 500 BC, 550 AD, 850 AD, 1300 AD and the peak of the "Little Ice Age" (Conference: Environmental Catastrophes and Recoveries in the Holocene, Aug. 29--Sep. 2, 2002, Dept. of Geography & Earth Sciences, Brunel University, Uxbridge, U.K.).]

http://abob.libs.uga...k/velidelu.html

Seems reasonable enough I think. I'd like to see plasmoids given a little more consideration by the scientific community also but recognizing cometary passings and meteorite impacts as being a basis for many myths would be a start. There is a strong suggestion that some omphalos stones were originally meteorites such as the one at Delphi and the Kaaba stone. Probably more aswell. Perhaps this was the true origin of a lot of deities rather than them simply being related to weather.

I'd like to read Clube and Napier's The Cosmic Winter anyway. Alan Alford mention cataclysms in this article too.

http://www.eridu.co....ntis/greek.html

Some of you may appreciate this next one. Bit out of my remit.

http://adsabs.harvar...JIMO...20...17S

"I belive no thing, I follow the Law of One. I am a Man-O'-Sion under construction."

#1305    Karlis

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 06:23 AM

Those who have been bickering, stop doing so. Posts from the last three pages have been edited.

Karlis