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[Archived]Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood


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#1351    Abramelin

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 09:50 PM

There are now 4 people in this thread who have read your book, Alewyn.

I am the ONLY one who ever said anything about your book.

You sent it to me for free, and I thank you for that.

And I will send you a bottle of "Sonnema's Beerenburg" if you are able to convince me that the OLB is nothing but a true historical account, not a hoax.


#1352    Alewyn

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Posted 22 October 2010 - 12:14 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 21 October 2010 - 09:50 PM, said:

There are now 4 people in this thread who have read your book, Alewyn.

I am the ONLY one who ever said anything about your book.

You sent it to me for free, and I thank you for that.

And I will send you a bottle of "Sonnema's Beerenburg" if you are able to convince me that the OLB is nothing but a true historical account, not a hoax.
What will it take to convince you? I have given you dates and facts that were not known in the 19th century but you flatly ignore these.  I have quoted numerous sources and persons but you refuse to acknowledge this. I have given you my book to read but not a word. Yes, you do write about my book but all unsubstantiated, derogatory and negative. Recently you even tried to make a case that I tried to bribe you or get you to translate my book. Do you call that honourable conduct? How do you live with yourself?
This forum is supposed to be about Alternative History and this specific thread about the authenticity of the Oera Linda Book – a fact that one of your cronies does not seem to understand and you supported him in his ignorance. Neither of you are interested in any alternatives.
You keep on saying that Puzzler does not say anything but what about yourself? Remember how you criticised Puzzler for not giving feedback? Now you are in exactly the same boat.
Otharis have on two occasions indicated that he is impressed with my book but you simply ignore this and keep on saying that he does not say anything about my book. What more do you want him to say?
I have not seen a shred of objectivity from you.
You see, Abe, for a debate to be credible, one must at least give credit where credit is due and display some integrity. You have done neither. You have made up your mind that you will never, never admit that the OLB is authentic. There is nothing on this earth that I can do or say that will ever convince you. In fact, having come to know you to some extent over the last four months, I cannot think of a single reason now why I would want to convince you or seek your endorsement.
As for your "Sonnema's Beerenburg", I don't even know what it is so you can keep it – just try to be truthful.


#1353    cormac mac airt

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Posted 22 October 2010 - 12:39 AM

Quote

...this specific thread about the authenticity of the Oera Linda Book.


Wrong! As stated in the OP:

Quote

The Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood Did it happen in circa 2190 BCE?

So evidently someone's English Comprehension would appear less than adequate as this thread (per the OP) IS NOT about the authenticity of the Oera Linda Book, but about its connection with the alleged Great Flood and whether or not that event happened in 2190 BC per Riann's original post, or even 2193 BC per Alewyn's repeated assertions. None of which is evidenced. Falling back on trying to verify or invalidate the OLB is a cop-out to the original premise of this thread. But then, others should already be aware of this.

cormac

The city and citizens, which you yesterday described to us in fiction, we will now transfer to the world of reality. It shall be the ancient city of Athens, and we will suppose that the citizens whom you imagined, were our veritable ancestors, of whom the priest spoke; they will perfectly harmonise, and there will be no inconsistency in saying that the citizens of your republic are these ancient Athenians. --  Plato's Timaeus

#1354    Abramelin

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Posted 22 October 2010 - 01:08 AM

View PostAlewyn, on 22 October 2010 - 12:14 AM, said:

What will it take to convince you? I have given you dates and facts that were not known in the 19th century but you flatly ignore these.  I have quoted numerous sources and persons but you refuse to acknowledge this. I have given you my book to read but not a word. Yes, you do write about my book but all unsubstantiated, derogatory and negative. Recently you even tried to make a case that I tried to bribe you or get you to translate my book. Do you call that honourable conduct? How do you live with yourself?
This forum is supposed to be about Alternative History and this specific thread about the authenticity of the Oera Linda Book – a fact that one of your cronies does not seem to understand and you supported him in his ignorance. Neither of you are interested in any alternatives.
You keep on saying that Puzzler does not say anything but what about yourself? Remember how you criticised Puzzler for not giving feedback? Now you are in exactly the same boat.
Otharis have on two occasions indicated that he is impressed with my book but you simply ignore this and keep on saying that he does not say anything about my book. What more do you want him to say?
I have not seen a shred of objectivity from you.
You see, Abe, for a debate to be credible, one must at least give credit where credit is due and display some integrity. You have done neither. You have made up your mind that you will never, never admit that the OLB is authentic. There is nothing on this earth that I can do or say that will ever convince you. In fact, having come to know you to some extent over the last four months, I cannot think of a single reason now why I would want to convince you or seek your endorsement.
As for your "Sonnema's Beerenburg", I don't even know what it is so you can keep it – just try to be truthful.

What the hell?? You have NOT given me ANYTHING that was not known in the 19th century!!

And what is that bull about being 'honourable??


Feedback?? I gave you ****ing feedback. You are blind or what?? I proved, no Cormac did, that your earth tilt story is wrong. And I proved your Friesland Island story wrong and your ideas about Aldland, and others here proved you wrong about whatever happened at 2200 BC. You said here that ´Frisland Island´ was just a minor part, but its a ****ing whole chapter in your book.

You know, I am thinking of sending your ´free gift´ back, and then you can use someone else to promote your great work.

You never ever convinced me, never.

Maybe Otharus can, and I am still waiting for what HE found out.

Edited by Abramelin, 22 October 2010 - 01:29 AM.


#1355    The Puzzler

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Posted 22 October 2010 - 04:04 AM

View PostOtharus, on 14 October 2010 - 04:49 AM, said:

On second thoughts, I would not try to translate "OD", but rather place a footnote.

"Wralda's od penetrated them, ..."

Nowhere in literature about OLB have I found the following, which I think is rather interesting:

The Odic force (also called Od [õd], Odyle, Önd, Odes, Odylic, Odyllic, or Odems) is the name given in the mid-19th century to a hypothetical vital energy or life force by Baron Carl von Reichenbach.
Source: http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Odic_force
I agree, Od is probably a life force, much like Id, that which is present at birth, instinct that is inherited, thinking about it, what is given to us by our Father.

Thus, the id:

". . contains everything that is inherited, that is present at birth, is laid down in the constitution -- above all, therefore, the instincts, which originate from the somatic organisation, and which find a first psychical expression here (in the id) in forms unknown to us."

http://en.wikipedia....,_and_super-ego



My feedback on the book is this. I find the OLB to be a true account of the Frisians so the OLB imo does seem authentic. I have given all my reasons for it previously.
I find Alewyn's book very good but think the main premise being the Flood event from an impact of 2193BC unfounded in scientific fact. I do think a climate event occurred at that time though that co-incided with the 4.2ky and Bond event which may have had some flooding effects, heavy rain and then heat, dryness and famine causing the fall of Mesopotamia and Egypt.
This to me sounds like the Exodus rather than the Great Flood of Noah. Ipuwer imo has recorded the Exodus conditions. In Biblical terms 2000BC is Abrahams approximate timeframe.
(Actually, if I adjust my brain somewhat - and the line of Abraham actually came from the area of Friesland and Denmark then it could have been the sinking of the land from that area that was related through, in generational time I think Abraham would sit around 200 years after Noah, they may have left the sinking lands of Northern Europe and arrived in the area of the southern Caucasus, that is Ararat, where they moved south from there, which if we consider the Hebrews call the Mediterranean The Middle Sea, may not be that far out of the realm).

I think any Great Flood (as being the same as Biblical Flood) occurred prior to 2193BC (unless of course my brain adjustment note above is correct) but do think climate change was extreme at the date given, so I think Alewyn's book could make better comprehension if it had been written on that level. By adding in an uncertain meteoric event it has given the book a tint of uncredibility. Sinking in Friesland at 2193BC can be confirmed by the tests done in the German Bight, I did link some tests for that, it appears to be gradual rather than sudden.

I think I saw Searcher relate a similar thing, climate change and flood maybe were around at that time but not from any impact from the skies, research into the 4.2kiloyear event and Bond accompaniment may yield better answers. We have records of eclipses in the time of Shulgi but no mention of a super impact...it doesn't gel with me.

I am enjoying Survivors of the Great Tsunami alot though and think many of the connections in it are true. I think Alewyn should have maybe researched the areas of Northern Europe some more and really thought about where these seas (Wraldas, etc) were as I also think they might be in different areas to where he has them in the book.

I think the language of the OLB can be non-Latin as I have expressed. You want wagrum? - wall space.

I also think the term 'christian reckoning' is suspect in making the timeframe appear distorted.
There own time might not equate to the Chritian Reckoning of time, or the Christian reckoning might have distorted time.

I have had to have some time off here lately but do read some more of Alewyn's book when I can. A couple of times I did mention things in the book, like who I thought the Phaeaceans were, becoming the Phocaeans but Alewyn told me no, but I think they are.

Maybe you all didn't realise how much I was commenting on Alewyn's book.

This whole thread is very unstructured and hard to comment on properly at the best of times.

Lots to catch up on here. :yes:

----------------------------------------------------------
I forgot to add my wagrum link to wall space. I showed you already how rum is for space.

We can find wag and wall in the etymology for magic wand.

wand
c.1200, from O.N. vondr "rod, switch," (cf. Goth. wandus "rod," M.Swed. vander), from P.Gmc. *wend- "to turn," see wind (v.)). The notion is of a bending, flexible stick. Cf. cognate O.N. veggr, O.E. wag "wall," O.S., Du. wand, O.H.G. want, Ger. Wand "wall," originally "wickerwork for making walls," or "wall made of wattle-work" (an insight into early Germanic domestic architecture). Magic wand is attested from c.1400 and shows the etymological sense of "suppleness" already had been lost.

http://www.etymonlin...dex.php?l=w&p=1

Wag = wall made of wattle-work - (wand)
Rum = space

wagrum - wattlework wall space (to write on)

Edited by The Puzzler, 22 October 2010 - 04:49 AM.

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#1356    Alewyn

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Posted 22 October 2010 - 05:45 AM

View Postcormac mac airt, on 22 October 2010 - 12:39 AM, said:

Wrong! As stated in the OP:



So evidently someone's English Comprehension would appear less than adequate as this thread (per the OP) IS NOT about the authenticity of the Oera Linda Book, but about its connection with the alleged Great Flood and whether or not that event happened in 2190 BC per Riann's original post, or even 2193 BC per Alewyn's repeated assertions. None of which is evidenced. Falling back on trying to verify or invalidate the OLB is a cop-out to the original premise of this thread. But then, others should already be aware of this.

cormac
Just read page 1 of this thread. Abramelin set the tone. Are you blind or what?


#1357    cormac mac airt

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Posted 22 October 2010 - 05:49 AM

Abramelin wasn't the one who initiated this thread. Comprehension stunted, or what? I didn't realize Abramelin had to lead you.

cormac

The city and citizens, which you yesterday described to us in fiction, we will now transfer to the world of reality. It shall be the ancient city of Athens, and we will suppose that the citizens whom you imagined, were our veritable ancestors, of whom the priest spoke; they will perfectly harmonise, and there will be no inconsistency in saying that the citizens of your republic are these ancient Athenians. --  Plato's Timaeus

#1358    The Puzzler

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Posted 22 October 2010 - 06:36 AM

Abramelin set the tone even though he did not initiate it, here's the thing, Riann started the thread and stayed for 2 minutes, if that. He titled it but did not stay to discuss his title.

imo that leaves the thread open to go on the directions of the participants, in all threads.

How can something be discussed that a poster has stated if that poster does not keep on his original topic theme.

Alewyn joined the thread later to back up some of the claims that had been made. Riann started a thread based on Alewyn's book but did not make an effort to continue his own topic so the thread changed to talking about the whole book based on many of Abramelin's claims the whole book was a fake, which I think we spent most of the posts discussing.

Point being, in this thread with limited participants and the OP gone from it, it should be open to discuss any parts of Alewyn's book and the OLB.


I believe everyone pulled out all flood info and links within about 5 pages of this thread.


Every post in this topic so far except a few have been precise debates on points of the whole OLB book, why after over 1000 posts is everyone worrying about it being ONLY about the Great Flood?


How about someone tell me wall space is not equatable to wagrum. (wattlework wall - space - German)


But for the sake of being congenial, I'll stay on track...Alewyn, give (if you like) precise explanation of your sources for a 2193BC impact that could have led to the Great Flood and I'll (as I'm sure everyone here will) consider them all very thoroughly.

"The agony and the irony, they're killing me"
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#1359    Abramelin

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Posted 22 October 2010 - 07:29 PM

I have been thinking of something that bugs my mind for a few weeks now..

According to the OLB, Frya's Empire, from before 'the bad times', reached from the Middel Sea in the west (a reclaimed southern branch of the North Sea in present day Friesland, a province in the Netherlands) to the East Sea (Baltic).



"The name "Friezen" (Frisians) can be traced back to the end of the first century A.D.. The Roman writers Plinius and Tacitus wrote about the so called Frisii.

The Germanic word Freisias (Frisians) comes from the Indo-European Preisios. Preisios is a derivation of the root-word prei-, which means: to love."


http://web.quipo.it/...sian_people.htm


I was thinking.. if the ancestors of the Frisians came from Denmark/southern Scandinavia and went south and then west and finally became known as the Frisians, what name would they have got if they had gone east too? Prusians??

If I nit Frisian and Prussian together and shake it a bit, we get Phruisians.
(west) Frisians << (origin) Phruisians >> (east)  Prusians



Prussia (German:  Preußen ); Latin: Borussia, Prutenia; Latvian: Prūsija; Lithuanian: Prūsija; Polish: Prusy; Old Prussian: Prūsa)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prussia


The Old Prussians or Baltic Prussians (German: Pruzzen or Prußen; Latin: Pruteni; Latvian: Prūši; Lithuanian: Prūsai; Polish: Prusowie) were an ethnic group, autochthonous Baltic tribes that inhabited Prussia, the lands of the southeastern Baltic Sea in the area around the Vistula and Curonian Lagoons. They spoke a language now known as Old Prussian and followed a religion believed by modern scholars to be closely related to Lithuanian paganism with such gods as Perkūns (Latvian: Pērkons).http://en.wikipedia....i/Old_Prussians

http://www.boudicca.de/frisian1.htm

http://www.fehmarnge...he_frisians.htm

http://en.wikipedia....Prussia_(region)

http://prusowie.pl/p...e_prussians.php

http://en.wikipedia....ki/Simon_Grunau

http://forums.skadi....hp/t-71227.html


What intrigued me also is the Latin name for these ancient Prussians (not to be confused with the German state with that name): Pruteni

That sounds damned close to the Roman/Latin name for the inhabitants of the Brittish isles, "Pritani" or "Priteni".


LOL, now I am guilty of what I always accuse Puzzler of.

But there is somekind of logic in my assumption, though: why could it not be possible that the ancestors of the Frisians migrated to the east too, into the Baltic? There they mixed with Finno-Ugric tribes, their lannguage got changed, and they were called P(h)rusians instead of Frisians.

Oh well.

-----

EDIT:

What got me bugged is that I found a site, many weeks ago, that said that Tacitus spelled "Frisii" a few times as "Frusii". But while I was busy being bugged by that, I got a phonecall from a friend, talked for hours, and returned to my computer, just to find out it had crashed for god knows what reason.

And you know it: I was never able to retrace that site.....  :angry:

--

ANOTHER EDIT:

Btw.. some of you will remember that I posted earlier about what for me would be proof the OLB is a true historic account..

"I have said in the Doggerland thread that I really wished the OLB was nothing but a true account/old manuscript of ancient history. Why would I wish that? But I am just not convinced it is, and I haven't read anything here to change my mind. If a similar document shows up, using the same 'running script', but from let's say Poland, and it would be proven it was as old at it is supposed to be, I would welcome it. I remember I even said in this thread "I will send Alewyn a bottle of Sonnema Beereburg" if that would ever happen."

Post 1309, page 88 of this thread.


Well, the Prussians also lived in what is now Poland.


.

Edited by Abramelin, 22 October 2010 - 08:26 PM.


#1360    Abramelin

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Posted 22 October 2010 - 08:37 PM

View PostQoais, on 03 July 2010 - 02:56 AM, said:

Abe - you're driving me crazy.  Are you for or against the Oera Linda Book now?  Are you saying the map is proof that Ottema was correct?  

What ARE you saying?

An old post from Qoais in this thread.

I am not 'for or against' it.

I have said several times I wished it was all true.

I am still very much in doubt, and Alewyn's book is not able to convince me.

I find things that speak against the OLB, and I find things that somewhat confirm the OLB.

But what I am hoping for is the results of the dating of the OLB, like Otharus told us about.


#1361    Alewyn

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 05:09 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 22 October 2010 - 07:29 PM, said:

I have been thinking of something that bugs my mind for a few weeks now..

According to the OLB, Frya's Empire, from before 'the bad times', reached from the Middel Sea in the west (a reclaimed southern branch of the North Sea in present day Friesland, a province in the Netherlands) to the East Sea (Baltic).

.
Abe, I know we went over this before, but since you bring it up again I must tell you again (for the benefit of other readers) that the “Middel Sea” in the OLB had nothing to do with the North Sea. The “Middel Sea” was the Mediterranean. Unless you understand the OLB’s geography, you will not understand the book. Herewith some references to the “Middel Sea” in the OLB with my explanations in brackets:

The Book of Adela’s Followers

Chapter XXI
3. Eastward our boundary went to the extremity of the Aster Sea, and westwards to the Middel Sea (Mediterranean); so that besides the small rivers we had twelve large rivers given us by Wr-alda to keep our land moist, and to show our seafaring men the way to his sea.

Chapter XXIV
1. When Tunis wished to return home, he went first towards Denamark (Denmark); but he might not land there, for so the folk-mother had ordered, nor was he to land at Flyland (Flevoland, Netherlands) ( nor anywhere about there. In this way he would have lost all his people by want and hardship, so he landed at night to steal and sailed by day. Thus coasting along, he at length arrived at the colony of Kadik, (Cadiz, Spain) so called because it was built with a stone quay.
2. Here they bought all kinds of stores, but Tutia the burgh-femme would not allow them to settle there. When they were ready they began to disagree. Tunis wished to sail through the straits (Gibraltar) to the Middel Sea (Mediterranean), and enter the service of the rich king of Egiptaland, (Egypt)

Chapter XXIV
4. Nef Tunis coasted through the straits (Gibraltar) to the Middel Sea (Mediterranean). When Atland was submerged there was much suffering also on the shores of the Middel Sea (Mediterranean), on which account many of Finda's people, Heinde and Fere Krekalandar, (Italy and Greece) and people from Lyda's land (North Africa / Libya), came to us.

Chapter XXV
What the consequence of this was -
1. In the northernmost part of the Middel Sea (Mediterranean) there lies an island close to the coast. They now came and asked to buy that, on which a general assembly was held.
2. The folk-mother's advice was asked, and she wished to see them at some distance, so she saw no harm in it; but as we afterwards saw what a mistake we had made, we called the island Missellia (Frioul archipelago @ Marseille). Hereafter will be seen what reason we had.

Chapter XXVII
9. Kalta, who, people said, could go as easily on the water as on the land, went to the mainland and on to Missellia (Marseille). Then came the Golar (From Golan in ancient Phoenicia – Lebanon) out of the Middel Sea (Mediterranean) with their ships to Kadik (Cadiz, Spain), and along all our coasts (Iberia & Western France), and fell upon Brittania (Britain); but they could not make any good footing there, because the government was powerful and the exiles were still Children of Frya.

Chapter XXVIII
Now we shall write how it fared with Jon; it is inscribed at Texland (Texel, Netherlands) –
1. Ten years after Jon went away, there arrived three ships in the Flymar (Zuider Sea, Netherlands / Ijsselmeer, Wadden Sea); the people cried, "Huzza!" From their accounts the folk-mother had this written:
2. When Jon reached the Middel Sea (Mediterranean) , the reports of the Golar had preceded him, so that on the coast of Heinde Krekaland (Italy) he was nowhere safe. Therefore he went with his fleet straight over to Lydia (North Africa / Libya). There the black men wanted to catch them and eat them. At last they came to Thyr (Ancient Tyre, Phoenicia / Lebanon) but Minerva said:

The Writings of Frethorik and Wiliow

Chapter II
25. "The king requests you, for his sake, to go a voyage up the Rade Sea (Red Sea); after that each shall receive as much gold as he can carry."
26. When we arrived there, he showed us where the strait had formerly been (near the Bitter Lakes, Egypt). There he spent thirty-one days, always looking steadily towards the desert.
27. At last there arrived a great troop of people, bringing with them two hundred elephants, a thousand camels, a quantity of timber, ropes, and all kinds of implements necessary to drag our fleet to the Middel Sea (Mediterranean). This astounded us, and seemed most extraordinary, but Nearchus told us that his king wished to show to the other kings that he was more powerful than any kings of Thyr (Ancient Tyre, Phoenicia / Lebanon) had ever been. We were only to assist, and that surely could do us no harm.
28. We were obliged to yield, and Nearchus knew so well how to regulate everything, that before three months had elapsed our ships lay in the Middel Sea (Mediterranean)

The Writings of Beden

Chapter III
19. The people who live on the south side (North Africa) of the Middel Sea (Mediterranean) come for the most part from Phonisia (Phoenicia / Lebanon). The Phonisiar (Phoenicians & Carthaginians) are a b****** race of the blood of Fryan (West Europeans), Finda (Easterners), and Lyda (Africans). The Lyda people were there as slaves, but by the unchastity of the women these black people have degenerated the other people and dyed them brown.
20. These people and the people of Rome are constantly struggling (Punic wars) for the supremacy over the Middel Sea (Mediterranean).

44. This is the way in which the punishment came. They had all together taken a whole fleet that came out of the Middel Sea (Mediterranean). This fleet was laden with purple cloths and other valuables that came from Phonisia (Carthage & Phoenicia).

I sincerely hope we can now settle this one point.


#1362    The Puzzler

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 05:32 AM

The Writings of Beden seems the one that says to me it really has to be the Mediterranean Sea, as the ships were laden with purple cloth and the mention of Rome fighting over the sea. I wasn't really positive but to me that one, now you point it out, can't be interpreted any other way but the Mediterranean Sea imo.

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#1363    Otharus

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 10:00 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 22 October 2010 - 07:29 PM, said:

The Germanic word Freisias (Frisians) comes from the Indo-European Preisios. Preisios is a derivation of the root-word prei-, which means: to love.
Note for those who don't know the Dutch language:

Vrijen still means: to make love
Vrijer = lover
Old spelling for lovemaking: Vryery

It's obvious to me why the Roman catholic empire desperately wanted to annihilate the Old (west) Frisian (Fryic, Fryish, Freeish) culture.

View PostAbramelin, on 22 October 2010 - 07:29 PM, said:

If I nit Frisian and Prussian together and shake it a bit, we get Phruisians.
(west) Frisians << (origin) Phruisians >> (east)  Prusians
:tu:


#1364    The Puzzler

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 02:17 PM

There is a few things that could make me think the people of Prussia were related to Frisians. The first is the area is the home of the Aestii, that is the people on the East of the Vistula, the amber area.
The American historian James L. Cabot has gone so far as to claim descent from the Aesti, partly on the basis of his family's origin in East Prussia, and partly the fact that his surname is part of a European pattern of names denoting "Coaster" ('One who trades along the coast') -- e.g., English Cabot, East Prussian Kabat, Italian Caboto, and Crimean Kbat.

That above confirms that east Prussians are Aestii, then you mentioned Tacitus Abe, and I thought of this that I had read from Wiki.

The ancient writers, beginning with Tacitus, who was the first Roman author to mention them in his Germania, provide very little information on the Aestii.[2] Although Tacitus never travelled to Magna Germania himself and only recorded information he had obtained from others, the short ethnographic excursus below is the most detailed ancient account of the Aestii that we have:

"Upon the right of the Suebian Sea the Aestian nations reside, who use the same customs and attire with the Suebians; their language more resembles that of Britain. They worship the Mother of the Gods. As the characteristic of their national superstition, they wear the images of wild boars. This alone serves them for arms, this is the safeguard of all, and by this every worshipper of the Goddess is secured even amidst his foes. Rare amongst them is the use of weapons of iron, but frequent that of clubs. In producing of grain and the other fruits of the earth, they labour with more assiduity and patience than is suitable to the usual laziness of Germans. Nay, they even search the deep, and of all the rest are the only people who gather amber. They call it glesum, and find it amongst the shallows and upon the very shore. But, according to the ordinary incuriosity and ignorance of Barbarians, they have neither learnt, nor do they inquire, what is its nature, or from what cause it is produced. In truth it lay long neglected amongst the other gross discharges of the sea; till from our luxury, it gained a name and value. To themselves it is of no use: they gather it rough, they expose it in pieces coarse and unpolished, and for it receive a price with wonder." Germania, chapter XLV.

Apart from describing their idiom as closer to the British language than — as must be inferred — to the language of the Suebi, Tacitus mentions their term for amber in an apparently Latinised form, glesum (cf. Latvian glīsas). This is the only word of their language recorded from antiquity, but seems to be Germanic in origin (from Gothic glas).


The Aestii speak a language more like Britain.  (Considering Frisian is closest to English...)
They call it glesum, "an apparently Latinised form"..... this is the hurdle in the OLB that I keep pointing out, the words they are using are before the Latin word, it is Germanic but appears Latin, like bedrum.  Germanic in origin, not Latin, just like the other etymologies we have discussed, bedrum and wagrum that I explained as (wattle-work) wall space.

But the OLB tells us who collects amber too and they are part of the people of Frya as told here...
Moreover, our sailors and merchants had many factories among the distant Krekalanders and in Lydia. In Lydia (Lybia) the people are black. As our country was so great and extensive, we had many different names. Those who were settled to the east of Denmark were called Jutten, because often they did nothing else than look for amber (jutten) on the shore. Those who lived in the islands were called Letten, because they lived an isolated life. All those who lived between Denmark and the Sandval, now the Scheldt, were called Stuurlieden (pilots), Zeekampers (naval men), and Angelaren (fishermen). The Angelaren were men who fished in the sea, and were so named because they used lines and hooks instead of nets. From there to the nearest part of Krekaland the inhabitants were called Kadhemers, because they never went to sea but remained ashore.

Those who were settled in the higher marches bounded by Twisklanden (Germany) were called Saxmannen, because they were always armed against the wild beasts and the savage Britons. Besides these we had the names Landzaten (natives of the land), Marzaten (natives of the fens), and Woud or Hout zaten (natives of the woods).

http://oeralinda.angelfire.com

The placement of the Tacitean Aestii is based primarily on their association with amber, a popular luxury item during the life of Tacitus, with known sources at the southeastern coast of the Baltic Sea. The Baltic amber trade, which appears to have extended to the Mediterranean Sea, has been traced by archaeologists back to the Nordic Bronze Age; its major center was located in the region of Sambia.This trade probably existed prior to the historical Trojan War in the 13th century BCE, as amber is one of the substances in which the palace of Menelaus at Sparta was said to be rich in Homer's The Iliad.


So, the above shows, that the Aestii and the Frisians can be related since the area of the Jutten, the amber collectors (Vistula) is part of the Freyan (empire).



Phrusians reminded me of Phruges, Phryges, Bruges - Phrygians.

It also says they didn't have iron weapons but had clubs, which reminded me of the Greek Heracles.

Aesti however also reminds me of the Aesir, the early Nordic pantheon of Frya. I recall the word aisar in Etruscan means iron and the Aesir are said to have fought with iron weapons. This seems to indicate that the people of the East, the area of the Vistula, received iron weapons first, maybe from the South as the amber trade was there. This is a hurdle since iron weapons don't seem to appear in Northern Europe until around 500BC, so they say, so far.
Then, is the Christian reckoning correct? I have considered it, the whole story would fit much better if it was a later time frame, and they do account for the time in Christian Reckoning...something seems weird about it.

The extent of Estonian territory in early medieval times is disputed but the nature of their religion is not. They were known to the Scandinavians as experts in wind-magic, as were the Lapps (known at the time as Finns) in the North.

That part shows that the Estonians were possibly connected to the Lapps, as far as their priesthood went - and it also tells us that they were known as Finns - hmm....

One hundred and one years after the submersion of Aldland a people came out of the East. That people was driven by another. Behind us, in Twiskland (Germany), they fell into disputes, divided into two parties, and each went its own way. Of the one no account has come to us, but the other came in the back of our Schoonland, which was thinly inhabited, particularly the upper part. Therefore they were able to take possession of it without contest, and as they did no other harm, we would not make war about it. Now that we have learned to know them, we will describe their customs, and after that how matters went between us. They were not wild people, like most of Finda’s race; but, like the Egyptians, they have priests and also statues in their churches. The priests are the only rulers; they call themselves Magyars, and their headman Magy. He is high priest and king in one. The rest of the people are of no account, and in subjection to them. This people have not even a name; but we call them Finns, because although all the festivals are melancholy and bloody, they are so formal that we are inferior to them in that respect.

It also shows that the people who came in from the East through the back of Schoonland do match a description of people called Finns, as called the same in the OLB, of a people who had a priesthood and divined everything, probably including wind. Wind-magic, that's interesting really. The Estonians did have highly polished stone axes, as mentioned being the weapon of the main people of the Magyars, who as called the Finns, should be then, the Lapps. To me, that's a perfect fit really. The Estonians and the Lapps are related and the Lapps imo were a group that came west, also known as the "Finns" or Magyars.



The Estonians and Lapps as far as I know are Finno-Ugrit speakers. I notice how close Hungary is the Italy and wondered if the Etruscans spoke Finno-Urgit, of course, the language of the Etruscans alludes us yet. I can't help but recall how Calchas is a wind magician when he tells Agamemnon to sacrifice Iphegenia, the reason is to control the winds as they sailed out to Troy. Since the haruspice occupation is linked to Etruria, wind-magicians seem a given.


A pdf Googles up called, Etruscans, Huns and Hungarians but I can't open it.

Here's something else: (Etruscans)

Because their unique culture and their many technical innovations weren’t present in earlier times on the Italian peninsula, they probably weren't there yet and came and brought them in later. Some archeologists like Hugh Hencken claim they came from the area of Hungary. Barfield called this area of Europe the "heartland of technology of the Bronze Age".  The American archeologist, Hugh Hencken have claimed their origin was from Hungary due to the similar type of Urn burial customs and metallurgy, which was present there much earlier, and the bronze technology they brought from there, as well as their equestrian customs. Hugh Hencken [1968, 612, 614] also claimed, that originally the Trysenoi came from the north, settled on the Lydian coast (before the Lydians came) and then fled several hundred years later to Italy, because of a long lasting famine and wars.  There must have been a very considerable timeline from the first event to the last.  Hencken also believes that the Etruscans were part of the people who attacked Egypt under the confederation known as the “Sea People” along with several other closely related peoples. They ruled Egypt for several generation from their capital Avaris. They are named by the Egyptians by their actual later known name, as “T(w)r(w)s’ “ [Mernpetah, 1214BC].

According to the Victory Stela found near Thebes, the Sea Peoples destroyed the Hittite kingdom, and consisted of the following peoples or tribes:
1. Shardana =Sardinians?  However references also claim that Shar=10 in Etruscan  and the Danoi of Greece were a branch of the Pelasgians
    Sardes was also a place name in Anatolia near the homeland of the Etruscans.
2. Lukka =Lycians, who also took over that name from the locals, but are likely a mixture with Etruscan.
3. Meshwesh =Myonians, Misians who according to Beekes are the original ancient Anatolian Etruscans.
4. Teresh =Tyrhaneans, who are also Etruscans found in both Anatolia and Italy.
5. Ekwesh =Acheans?
6. Shekelesh =Siculs,  a term commonly used by the Hungarian Székely, who were in Hungary before the Magyars came, but whose language has shown little signs of being ever different from Hungarian

http://users.cwnet.c...nd language.htm


If we go on that line, the Etruscans might be Estonians, who are the same as Lapps, were a Finno-Urgit speaking people, who moved down into Hungary as well as went east to Anatolia, this may be the Phrygian/Phruges, Prussian Frisians. I once thought they might have been Bryges from Belgium but now I'm thinking these East Landers might be the Phrygians. They worshipped a Mother Goddess it was reported and we do have the Mother Goddess pop up in Anatolia, Cybele.

One last thing, sorry for being so long, but this:

The Germanic word Freisias (Frisians) comes from the Indo-European Preisios. Preisios is a derivation of the root-word prei-, which means: to love.

Reminded me of the name Priam.

Edited by The Puzzler, 23 October 2010 - 02:28 PM.

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#1365    Alewyn

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 03:10 PM

View PostOtharus, on 23 October 2010 - 10:00 AM, said:

Note for those who don't know the Dutch language:

Vrijen still means: to make love
Vrijer = lover
Old spelling for lovemaking: Vryery

It's obvious to me why the Roman catholic empire desperately wanted to annihilate the Old (west) Frisian (Fryic, Fryish, Freeish) culture.


:tu:
Allow me to add my penny's worth:

1. In Afrikaans, the verb "Vry" means "courting" or "necking" rather than "making love".  In modern usage the latter means to engage in sex.
(eg.  “John vry (na) Jane” (“John is courting Jane”)

2. As a predicative adjective, “Vry” means “Free” as in “Ek is vry” (I am free)

3. As a noun “Vry(heid)” means “Freedom”. (Literally: “Free-ness”; Dutch: Vrijheid”)

The word “Frya” thus means “Free” or “Freedom” and the “Fryan People” means “The Free People”