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[Archived]Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood


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#16    Alewyn

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Posted 26 June 2010 - 11:41 AM

 Mattshark, on 26 June 2010 - 10:34 AM, said:

But you are not accepting that is was found in 1865 and even with just a rough idea it woudl be easy to guess one of the dates for Troy VII and there is over 4 centuries to work with.

Just to add for point 1, not a chance, Europe with "earthquakes, volcanic activity, fires, tsunamis, etc. that lasted for 3 years" I find that a little unlikely and if it had happened as it would have left considerable geological evidence across Europe.

I am afraid I do not follow your logic. Whether I do, or do not accept the date of Troy's founding has nothing to do with my treatise. I only mentioned the destruction of Troy as a vindication of the Oera Linda Book.
As for your second statement: Have it your way or read my book.


#17    SlimJim22

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Posted 26 June 2010 - 11:41 AM

I may be guilty of mixng cultural connections unnecessarily but here is the culture I was hinking of but couldn't quite place. They are the Vinca culture and had their own script. Check it out to see if it compares in anyway with the symbols of the OLB.

http://www.omniglot....iting/vinca.htm

and here is another decent link

http://www.archaeomy...romania_08.html

Edited by SlimJim22, 26 June 2010 - 11:42 AM.

"I belive no thing, I follow the Law of One. I am a Man-O'-Sion under construction."

#18    Abramelin

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Posted 26 June 2010 - 06:17 PM

 Alewyn, on 26 June 2010 - 11:41 AM, said:

I am afraid I do not follow your logic. Whether I do, or do not accept the date of Troy's founding has nothing to do with my treatise. I only mentioned the destruction of Troy as a vindication of the Oera Linda Book.
As for your second statement: Have it your way or read my book.


Don't you think it is somewhat strange that it's the Frisians themselves who are convinced the Oera Linda Book is a hoax, and that only non-Frisians (and non-Dutch) believe it's real?


#19    Abramelin

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Posted 26 June 2010 - 06:20 PM

 SlimJim22, on 26 June 2010 - 11:41 AM, said:

I may be guilty of mixng cultural connections unnecessarily but here is the culture I was hinking of but couldn't quite place. They are the Vinca culture and had their own script. Check it out to see if it compares in anyway with the symbols of the OLB.

http://www.omniglot....iting/vinca.htm

and here is another decent link

http://www.archaeomy...romania_08.html


Vinca script (from your link) :

Posted Image



The Oera Linda script:

Posted Image


Nah, not much resemblence, is there?

Edited by Abramelin, 26 June 2010 - 06:33 PM.


#20    Swede

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Posted 27 June 2010 - 02:20 AM

 Alewyn, on 26 June 2010 - 07:06 AM, said:

Many, but not all, are convinced beyond any shadow of a doubt that the Oera Linda Book is a hoax. Nevertheless, please consider the following few randomly selected facts (of many):

1. The Oera Linda Book(OLB)(1867) claims that their civilization in Europe was destroyed in 2193 BC by a massive natural disaster. The book mentions earthquakes, volcanic activity, fires, tsunamis, etc. that lasted for 3 years. Archaeologists and historians agree that the Old Kingdom in Egypt came to an end in ca. 2200 BC; the Harrapan (Indus Valley) civilization came to an end in ca.2200 BC; The Hongsan Culture in China came to an end in ca 2200 BC and Professor Harvey Weiss stated that the Akkadian Empire in Syria was destroyed in 2193 BC. In addition, the last Mammoths on Wrangle Island in the Arctic became extinct at the same time. In fact, carbon dating on one of the Mammoths indicated that the animal died about 2192 BC. Non of this information was available 140 years ago when the OLB surfaced.(Except possibly for the Old Kingdom in Egypt)

2. The OLB stated that before the disaster "the sun rose higher". This would indicate that they were closer to the equator. The book of Enoch (Noah's Great-Grandfather) stated that the "pillar of the earth shook from its foundation" and "the earth was violently shaken and became inclined" Various ancient scribes described the unmistakable effects of a cosmic impact.(Ipuwer, Neferti, etc.) Very prominent scientists such as Dr. Dallas Abbott et al have actually found evidence of this in 2005 (Please check the "Burckle Crater")

3. Professor Timo Niroma , on his website “The Third Millennium BC¬ (3100-2100 BC)” states “During the years 2200-2100 BC  the saltines of the soil rose markedly, possibly because of sea floods” at the time of the destruction of Akkadian Sumer (present day Syria). He also states:
“ Mesopotamia and other above-mentioned places were not the only victims of the 2200 BC event. As far away as in China, the Hongsan culture fell in pieces at this same time. This, if not anything else, is an indication of the mighty character of the event, and bolsters us to consider it as global. ”

4. The OLB tells the story of a "Sea King" (not a monarch) by the name of Minnos that settled on Crete in ca. 1630 BC. In the 19th century nobody even knew that a "Minoan Civilization" ever existed. Archaeological work during the 20th century confirms everything that the OLB stated regarding the Middle Minoan period - even the date of ca 1600 BC. This date was only established in the latter half of the 20th century.

5. The OLB mentions the destruction of Troy in 1188 BC. In the beginning of the 21st century (140 years after the OLB) archaeologists concluded that Hellenic Troy (Troy VIIa) was destroyed in ca 1188 BC. In the 19th century Troy was still regarded as a myth.

6. The OLB claims that “Nef Tunis” from Frisia founded Tyre (in Lebanon) in 2000 BC. The Bible refers to tyre as having been “inhabited by seafaring men” and “inhabited from across the sea” (Afrikaans Translation)

7. The OLB described how some of them was expelled from Athens in ca 1550 BC and fled to India. This ties up exactly with the Avesta and Rig-Veda scriptures(Dating back to ca. 1500 BC). This also exactly the time when iron working commenced in India, (and the Caste System!)

8. During the 1980's archaeologists discovered naturally mummified Caucasian bodies in the Tarim Basin in Western China. They dated these mummies to ca 1500 BC.

I have tested the OLB against genetics, linguistics, theology, volcanism, climatology and many other modern discoveries and information that was not available in the 19th century and in every case the OLB was vindicated. Even ancient scribes such as Homer, Tacitus, Herodotus, Arrian, Ovid, Josephus and others support the claims made in the OLB.

The OLB was essentially declared a hoax by linguists who felt that the language was too modern. That is about the same as saying that the King James Bible is a hoax because the Jews did not speak Victorian English. The original translator of the OLB, Dr. Ottema, was a very prominent linguist and he believed to the day of his death that the book was authentic.

The Dutch rejects the book (understandably) because it was abused by the Nazis and, still today, by neo-Nazi groups and others; but then, so is the Bible. It still does not detract from the historical value of the book.

People like to quote Wikipedia as the “ultimate truth”. Wiki can, however, only publish what is out there at any given time.
Remember, the Plate Tectonics Theory was ridiculed for 70 years before it was accepted and it took 10 years before scientists accepted that the dinosaurs could have been wiped out by an asteroid impact. There was a time when people thought they did the world a favour by burning anybody who said that the world was not flat. The list goes on.

I am convinced that we are talking about a hoax here but it is definitely not the Oera Linda Book and yes, you guessed correctly, I am the idiot that wrote “Survivors of the Great Tsunami”

"8. During the 1980's archaeologists discovered naturally mummified Caucasian bodies in the Tarim Basin in Western China. They dated these mummies to ca 1500 BC."

Just to clarify; The Xinjiang (Tarim) remains were first documented in the early part of the of the 20th century by Marc Auriel Stein. It was during the 1970's that the extent of the number of such remains was fully recognized. While the earliest of these remains date to circa 4000 BP, the most recent date to circa 1500 BP (500 AD).

You may wish to consult the research of Victor Mair (U. of Pennsylvania) for a more insight into this topic.


"1. The Oera Linda Book(OLB)(1867) claims that their civilization in Europe was destroyed in 2193 BC by a massive natural disaster. The book mentions earthquakes, volcanic activity, fires, tsunamis, etc. that lasted for 3 years. Archaeologists and historians agree that the Old Kingdom in Egypt came to an end in ca. 2200 BC; the Harrapan (Indus Valley) civilization came to an end in ca.2200 BC; The Hongsan Culture in China came to an end in ca 2200 BC and Professor Harvey Weiss stated that the Akkadian Empire in Syria was destroyed in 2193 BC. In addition, the last Mammoths on Wrangle Island in the Arctic became extinct at the same time. In fact, carbon dating on one of the Mammoths indicated that the animal died about 2192 BC. Non of this information was available 140 years ago when the OLB surfaced.(Except possibly for the Old Kingdom in Egypt)"

In what manner was this quite precise date (2193 BC) determined? What degree of supportive evidence from the Western hemisphere (aside from Wrangle) has been documented?

As to Wrangle Island dating, the following may be of interest. Note latest dates.

http://packrat.aml.a.../vartanyan.html

.


#21    Abramelin

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Posted 27 June 2010 - 02:27 AM

 Swede, on 27 June 2010 - 02:20 AM, said:



In what manner was this quite precise date (2193 BC) determined? What degree of supportive evidence from the Western hemisphere (aside from Wrangle) has been documented?

.


The book articulates the first known example of the concept of root races (though it does not call them that), and probably influenced H.P. Blavatsky to develop her own, much more elaborate ideas on the subject, as outlined in The Secret Doctrine (1888). It also mentions Atland (the name given to Atlantis by the 17th century scholar Olof Rudbeck), which was supposedly submerged in 2193 BC, the same year as 19th century Dutch and Frisian almanacs, following traditional Biblical chronology, gave for Noah's flood.

http://en.wikipedia....ra_Linda<br />
:rolleyes:








#22    Alewyn

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Posted 27 June 2010 - 05:35 AM

 Abramelin, on 26 June 2010 - 06:17 PM, said:

Don't you think it is somewhat strange that it's the Frisians themselves who are convinced the Oera Linda Book is a hoax, and that only non-Frisians (and non-Dutch) believe it's real?

Hi Abramelin,
I do indeed find it strange that they(you) have rejected it. In fact, I started out by trying to prove to somebody else that the book was a hoax on grounds other than only the “language hypothesis”. I am afraid that I could find no such evidence.

Here is another interesting little piece of information:
In his “Odyssey”(Book V, p1) Homer (ca 800 BC?) tells the story of Ulysses that landed up in “Scheria” in the land of the ”Phaeacians” after he was held captive by Calypso. To this day nobody knows who these “Phaeacians” were.
The Oera Linda Book gives us the answer: The “Phaeacians” were the “Frisians” and “Scheria” is the modern day “Schelde” in the Netherlands. “Calypso” was “Kalib” a.k.a “Kat”
Please also look at King Neptune (Nef Tunis in the OLB) who refers to the Phaeacians as “my own flesh and blood” (Book XIII, p3).

Obviously one cannot use only one such example to base your theories on. In my book I quote numerous other authors and historians from antiquity who unmistakably refer to your (our) forefathers in Western and North-Western Europe.
Please keep an open mind and ask yourself: “What if the Oera Linda Book is authentic ?”. You may be doing yourself and others a huge favour.

When I published "Survivors of the Great Tsunami" I realized that I am in for a “rough ride”. You don’t change entrenched ideas overnight. I  am convinced, however, that my book proves beyond reasonable doubt that the OLB is not a fake.
Let me also put your mind at ease: My book has no political, racist or "white supremist" overtones. It is purely intended to be a bbok on factual history.
Regards,
Alewyn


#23    Swede

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Posted 27 June 2010 - 01:05 PM

 Abramelin, on 27 June 2010 - 02:27 AM, said:

The book articulates the first known example of the concept of root races (though it does not call them that), and probably influenced H.P. Blavatsky to develop her own, much more elaborate ideas on the subject, as outlined in The Secret Doctrine (1888). It also mentions Atland (the name given to Atlantis by the 17th century scholar Olof Rudbeck), which was supposedly submerged in 2193 BC, the same year as 19th century Dutch and Frisian almanacs, following traditional Biblical chronology, gave for Noah's flood.

http://en.wikipedia....ra_Linda<br />
:rolleyes:

Thanks Abe! I rather suspected as much...

.


#24    Abramelin

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Posted 27 June 2010 - 02:05 PM

 Alewyn, on 27 June 2010 - 05:35 AM, said:

Hi Abramelin,
I do indeed find it strange that they(you) have rejected it. In fact, I started out by trying to prove to somebody else that the book was a hoax on grounds other than only the "language hypothesis". I am afraid that I could find no such evidence.

Here is another interesting little piece of information:
In his "Odyssey"(Book V, p1) Homer (ca 800 BC?) tells the story of Ulysses that landed up in "Scheria" in the land of the "Phaeacians" after he was held captive by Calypso. To this day nobody knows who these "Phaeacians" were.
The Oera Linda Book gives us the answer: The "Phaeacians" were the "Frisians" and "Scheria" is the modern day "Schelde" in the Netherlands. "Calypso" was "Kalib" a.k.a "Kat"
Please also look at King Neptune (Nef Tunis in the OLB) who refers to the Phaeacians as "my own flesh and blood" (Book XIII, p3).

Obviously one cannot use only one such example to base your theories on. In my book I quote numerous other authors and historians from antiquity who unmistakably refer to your (our) forefathers in Western and North-Western Europe.
Please keep an open mind and ask yourself: "What if the Oera Linda Book is authentic ?". You may be doing yourself and others a huge favour.

When I published "Survivors of the Great Tsunami" I realized that I am in for a "rough ride". You don't change entrenched ideas overnight. I  am convinced, however, that my book proves beyond reasonable doubt that the OLB is not a fake.
Let me also put your mind at ease: My book has no political, racist or "white supremist" overtones. It is purely intended to be a bbok on factual history.
Regards,
Alewyn

I hope that you, Alewyn,, as a South African, understand the Dutch language for I have several links to texts written by and about Goffe Jensma. But also have some of his texts in English, so I think his message will be clear.

But before I fire, I want to ask you this: according to the Oera Linda Book, Aldland/Atland, or the 'old land" was located in the North Sea between Denmark and the Shetland Isles, and was submerged by a deluge at a date given as 2193 BC. That area is nowadays called "Doggerland", and there is a 32 page thread about it here. One of the scientific facts of Doggerland is that its last remants finally submerged around 6100 BC during a deluge caused by a huge tsunami (caused by the Storegga Slide). I realize that thread is a bit long, but I advise you to read it. And then I want to ask you: where is the proof that Doggerland was still above sea level around 2193 BC?? If you can, you will make me happy !!

Of course there was a large area west of Denmark that remained above sea level for a much longer time (and, together with Heligoland,  inspired Juergen Spanuth for his 'Atlantis in the north' theory), but that was just a tiny part of Doggerland (or the OLB version, Aldland/Atland). I can also imagine that the Dogger Bank remained above sea level for maybe centuries after the deluge, but then as nothing but waste land, a mud plain.



OK, back to Goffe Jensma.

English: Summary of "The Masked God - Francois Haverschmidt and the Oera Linda Book" by Goffe Jensma

---

In 2004 the historian Goffe Jensma published a book about the case: De gemaskerde god. François Haverschmidt en het Oera Linda-boek. In his book, Jensma argued that Haverschmidt was the main writer of the book, with the help of Over de Linden and Verwijs. According to Jensma, Haverschmidt intended the Oera Linda Book as a parody of the Christian Bible. An article in late 2007 by Professor Jensma [2] says that the three authors intended it "to be a temporary hoax to fool some nationalist Frisians and orthodox Christians and as an experiential exemplary exercise in reading the Holy Bible in a non-fundamentalist, symbolical way." However, ignoring clues that it was a forgery, it was taken seriously by J.G. Ottema and achieved popularity for the reasons given above. Its creators felt unable to admit that they had written it, and it became the foundation for a new belief. Jensma concludes his article by saying "It is a perfect irony that a book written to unmask the Holy Bible as a book of human making was to become a bible itself."

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Oera_Linda


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How to Deal with Holy Books in an Age of Emerging Science. The Oera Linda Book as a New Age Bible
Goffe Jensma, Leeuwarden


Citation Information. Fabula. Volume 48, Issue 3-4, Pages 229–249, ISSN (Online) 1316-0464, ISSN (Print) 0014-6242, DOI: 10.1515/FABL.2007.019, /November/2007
Published Online: 17/03/2008


Abstract
François HaverSchmidt, Eelco Verwijs and Cornelis over de Linden intended their forgery of an Old Frisian manuscript, later known as the Oera Linda Book, to be a temporary hoax to fool some nationalist Frisians and orthodox Christians and as an experiential exemplary exercise in reading the Holy Bible in a non-fundamentalist, symbolical way. Despite several obvious clues that the text could not be genuine, it turned out otherwise: the learned Frisian J.G. Ottema took the book seriously as a chronicle of Frisian history, religion and mythology, and soon he published a text edition – followed by more editions and translations. At this time, nobody interpreted the Oera Linda Book as a text directed against the orthodox Reformed, and the jokers did not dare to speak up. Too many other features of the text appealed to nationalist Frisians as well as pre-war National Socialists and post-war New Age believers, for instance: the connection of the Frisians with Atlantis, their early use of a rune alphabet, their civilizing Western Europe, their pre-Christian monotheism and belief in an omnipresent being, their matriarchy with folksmothers and borough-maidens, and their freedom-loving mode of life. Instead of criticizing the orthodox Reformed way of believing, a new belief was unwittingly created with the Oera Linda Book.


http://www.reference...5/FABL.2007.019

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Dutch (youtube) : Goffe Jensma over het Oera Linda Boek


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Dutch : Goffe Jensma over het Oera Linda Boek

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The manuscript was originally thought to have been written in Old Frisian but according to Jensma "the syntax of this artificial language proves to be completely in line with modern, read: nineteenth-century Dutch/Frisian" and included "linguistic delicacies like the hundreds of puns, popular etymologies and funny words that were derived from almost every modern European language. When they were weary, the folksmothers for instance could retire to their 'BEDRVM' (bedroom)".
http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Oera_Linda

I have the Dutch translation by J.F.Overwijn of the Oera Linda Book (2d edition, 1951, signed copy).
http://antiqbook.nl/...ag/000255.shtml , and the number of really funny etymologies - like the BEDRVM example -  is simply overwhelming.

---

Dutch (and now I really hope you can read Dutch) : Nieuwste vertaling van het manuscript door Goffe Jenstra (2006)


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Dutch: Reactie van Jensma op kritiek

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Dutch: Recensie van Goffe Jensma's "Oera Linda Boek"

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English (despite its Dutch title) : Dissertation / De gemaskerde god. Francois Haver Schmidt en het Oera Linda- boek
The subject of this study is the so-called Oera Linda Book, an enigmatic manuscript which turned up in 1867 as an heirloom in the house of Cornelis over de Linden (Enkhuizen 1811- Den Helder 1874). Over de Linden, who worked as a shipwright at the naval dockyard in the city of Den Helder, had allegedly inherited the manuscript from his aunt Aafje from the town of Enkhuizen.

This book is presented as a chronicle, composed by Over de Lindren's ancestors from c. 600 BC until 50 BC. It was written in a sort of Old Frisian and in a peculiar script which resembles runes. The book deals with the history of the Frisians from c 2200 BC onwards. It tells of an ancient Frisian, freedom-loving civilization which was led by women and which laid the foundation for the entire white Western European civilization to come. In the course of the centuries this Frisian empire was conquered and corrupted by Phoenicians, Gauls and other tribes, people and nations, some of which are known from classical historical sources. ...

Zie: Summary.


-



Edited by Abramelin, 27 June 2010 - 02:17 PM.


#25    Alewyn

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Posted 28 June 2010 - 04:53 AM

[quote name='Abramelin' date='27 June 2010 - 02:05 PM' timestamp='1277647501' post='3469206']
I hope that you, Alewyn,, as a South African, understand the Dutch language for I have several links to texts written by and about Goffe Jensma. But also have some of his texts in English, so I think his message will be clear.

But before I fire, I want to ask you this: according to the Oera Linda Book, Aldland/Atland, or the 'old land" was located in the North Sea between Denmark and the Shetland Isles, and was submerged by a deluge at a date given as 2193 BC. That area is nowadays called "Doggerland", and there is a 32 page thread about it here. One of the scientific facts of Doggerland is that its last remants finally submerged around 6100 BC during a deluge caused by a huge tsunami (caused by the Storegga Slide). I realize that thread is a bit long, but I advise you to read it. And then I want to ask you: where is the proof that Doggerland was still above sea level around 2193 BC?? If you can, you will make me happy !!

Hi Abramelin,

I am afraid my Dutch is very limited although my home language is Afrikaans. I will not be able to pick up the finer nuances in Dutch and definitely not the technical terms in a academic dissertation. (My forefathers left Europe more than 300 years ago.) Anything concerning Professor Jensma will unfortunately have to be in English

I shall try to respond to your comments about the Dogger Bank or “Doggerland” first and the rest will have to wait a while.

I could not find anywhere in the OLB where they say that their Altland was in the North Sea. What does seem clear to me is that this Old Land was somewhere to the West of Europe. In Chapters XXIII and XXIV of “the Book of Adela’s followers”  they relate the story of Tunis and Inka who became outcasts. They sailed from Sweden to Spain 193 years after the disappearance of Atland. In “Kadik” (present day Cadiz) they parted ways. Tunis sailed east and Inka apparently sailed west:

“Chapter XXIV
2. …Tunis wished to sail through the straits to the Middel Sea, and enter the service of the rich king of Egiptaland, as he had done before, but Inka said he had had enough of all those Finda's people. Inka thought that perchance some high-lying part of Atland might remain as an island, where he and his people might live in peace.”

This tells me that their Altland could not have been close to Europe otherwise they would have known whether there was anything left. This was already 193 years after the disaster. In addition, they had just sailed through the North Sea. Atland therefore must have been a fair distance away and therefore not near the Dogger Bank.

I did, however, find the following which you may find interesting. (My book obviously contain much more detail.)

You are aware of “Frisland” on the old “Zeno” map and all it’s variants (Mercator, Lafreri, etc) which dates from pre-1400 AD and which was also declared a hoax.

I redrew Frisland from the map on Autocad and then superimposed it on  a satellite image of the sea floor around the Faroe Islands. I rotated the map 19 degrees clockwise and adjusted the scale to the sea floor (The old maps were not too accurate). Lastly I imported 100m contour intervals into the drawing. The match is almost perfect.

I gave a presentation (October 2009) to two professors at the School of Geo-Sciences of the University of the Witwatersrand in Johannesburg (Prof Morris Viljoen and Prof Richard Viljoen). They could not fault my presentation. In fact, Professor Morris Viljoen exclaimed: “You have discovered Atlantis!” I disagreed and told him that I can only agree to having discovered “Frisland”. I am not in a position to say whether Frisland was Atlantis. From the contours I also pointed out a 200 kilometer long riverbed with which they both agreed. River beds do not form under the sea. These contours therefore indicate that this land must have been above sea level at some stage.
Lastly I presented a likely geological explanation to them as to what could have caused the submergence.(I have some 34 years experience in structural geology). Professor Richard Viljoen studied my slides for a while and then said :”I think you are right”

Whether Frisland was Atland or Atlantis, I cannot say. I also cannot say when this Frisland disappeared below the waves. What I can say with confidence is that the old map fits exactly on the contours. In research subsequent to my book I found that the coral reefs around the Faroe Islands seem to be in the vicinities of the old towns and old coastline – especially on the east side. Unfortunately I do not know how to import my jpeg figures onto this website. If somebody could advise me I will gladly post a few here from my book.

Regards,
Alewyn


#26    Abramelin

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Posted 28 June 2010 - 12:43 PM

 Alewyn, on 28 June 2010 - 04:53 AM, said:

Abramelin:
I hope that you, Alewyn,, as a South African, understand the Dutch language for I have several links to texts written by and about Goffe Jensma. But also have some of his texts in English, so I think his message will be clear.

But before I fire, I want to ask you this: according to the Oera Linda Book, Aldland/Atland, or the 'old land" was located in the North Sea between Denmark and the Shetland Isles, and was submerged by a deluge at a date given as 2193 BC. That area is nowadays called "Doggerland", and there is a 32 page thread about it here. One of the scientific facts of Doggerland is that its last remants finally submerged around 6100 BC during a deluge caused by a huge tsunami (caused by the Storegga Slide). I realize that thread is a bit long, but I advise you to read it. And then I want to ask you: where is the proof that Doggerland was still above sea level around 2193 BC?? If you can, you will make me happy !!



Hi Abramelin,

I am afraid my Dutch is very limited although my home language is Afrikaans. I will not be able to pick up the finer nuances in Dutch and definitely not the technical terms in a academic dissertation. (My forefathers left Europe more than 300 years ago.) Anything concerning Professor Jensma will unfortunately have to be in English

I shall try to respond to your comments about the Dogger Bank or "Doggerland" first and the rest will have to wait a while.

I could not find anywhere in the OLB where they say that their Altland was in the North Sea. What does seem clear to me is that this Old Land was somewhere to the West of Europe. In Chapters XXIII and XXIV of "the Book of Adela's followers"  they relate the story of Tunis and Inka who became outcasts. They sailed from Sweden to Spain 193 years after the disappearance of Atland. In "Kadik" (present day Cadiz) they parted ways. Tunis sailed east and Inka apparently sailed west:

"Chapter XXIV
2. …Tunis wished to sail through the straits to the Middel Sea, and enter the service of the rich king of Egiptaland, as he had done before, but Inka said he had had enough of all those Finda's people. Inka thought that perchance some high-lying part of Atland might remain as an island, where he and his people might live in peace."

This tells me that their Altland could not have been close to Europe otherwise they would have known whether there was anything left. This was already 193 years after the disaster. In addition, they had just sailed through the North Sea. Atland therefore must have been a fair distance away and therefore not near the Dogger Bank.

I did, however, find the following which you may find interesting. (My book obviously contain much more detail.)

You are aware of "Frisland" on the old "Zeno" map and all it's variants (Mercator, Lafreri, etc) which dates from pre-1400 AD and which was also declared a hoax.

I redrew Frisland from the map on Autocad and then superimposed it on  a satellite image of the sea floor around the Faroe Islands. I rotated the map 19 degrees clockwise and adjusted the scale to the sea floor (The old maps were not too accurate). Lastly I imported 100m contour intervals into the drawing. The match is almost perfect.

I gave a presentation (October 2009) to two professors at the School of Geo-Sciences of the University of the Witwatersrand in Johannesburg (Prof Morris Viljoen and Prof Richard Viljoen). They could not fault my presentation. In fact, Professor Morris Viljoen exclaimed: "You have discovered Atlantis!" I disagreed and told him that I can only agree to having discovered "Frisland". I am not in a position to say whether Frisland was Atlantis. From the contours I also pointed out a 200 kilometer long riverbed with which they both agreed. River beds do not form under the sea. These contours therefore indicate that this land must have been above sea level at some stage.
Lastly I presented a likely geological explanation to them as to what could have caused the submergence.(I have some 34 years experience in structural geology). Professor Richard Viljoen studied my slides for a while and then said :"I think you are right"

Whether Frisland was Atland or Atlantis, I cannot say. I also cannot say when this Frisland disappeared below the waves. What I can say with confidence is that the old map fits exactly on the contours. In research subsequent to my book I found that the coral reefs around the Faroe Islands seem to be in the vicinities of the old towns and old coastline – especially on the east side. Unfortunately I do not know how to import my jpeg figures onto this website. If somebody could advise me I will gladly post a few here from my book.

Regards,
Alewyn

Alewyn, I hope you do not forget that all the English translations you apparantly use were based on translations into Dutch by first Ottema, and later by Overwijn (the one I have). Jensma made a new - and according to him more accurate - translation of the original OLB manuscript. That's is why I hope this latest translation will be available in English soon.

Ottema and Overwijn translated the document based on their knowledge of (old-)Frisian place names, personal names, gods, and so on. Overwijn even created maps of Atland and the empire of the Frisians, and one of his maps clearly depcits Doggerland, together with the Celtic Shelf (on which the UK , Ireland and the Channel are located).
So, again, all the English translations of the OLB are based on the work of these two Dutchmen, Ottema and Overwijn. (Overwijn even mentions Dogger Bank).

Posted Image



==

I know about Zeno's map; it was Riaan, another member of this site, who made me aware of it.  Here, ~LINK~~I talk about that map, and especially about the ''Frislant' island. Now, if you click on that link, you will be directed to a post in the Doggerland thread; then scroll down, and in a post you will see a very early medieval map made by Olaus Magnus; you will notice Frislant is gone.

My idea was (read the post I linked to, please) that Zeno may have heard of Frislant Island by some sailors/exploreres, but had no clue where in the north it may have been, so he just located it near Iceland.  I did something similar to what you did, and suggested that that island may have been nothing but Dogger Island, the last remnant of Doggerland after that area got flushed down the drain. (BTW, although I have said a couple of times on UM that I don't know what was left of Doggerland after the deluge, or  till when the last remnant was still above sea level, even the Wiki page about Doggerland tells us (and also more scientific docs) that it may have been above sea level untill 5000 BC. Also - as is being told in the BBC documentary "Stone Age Atlantis" it was being remembered long after it sunk beneath the waves ).


You locate Frislant (and as far as I know it's not spelled as 'Frisland') near the Faroe Islands, and it is known that they - together with a larger plateau -   have been above sea level in the distant past. But that must have been many millennia before 2193 BC, during the middle of the last ice age.

--

If you want to upload pictures to this site, you can use several picture hosts, like Photobucket or ImageShack. I use Photobucket: create an account there, and upload the pictures you want to post, Photobucket will create a link to that picture (use the one that says "Direct Link", or when it's really huge, use the Thumbnail link), and then you copy that link, start a post here, click on the 'image' button , enter that link, and voila.



+++++++++++++++

EDIT:

I think it would be an interesting idea to invite Goffe Jensma to this site, but I assume he won't have much time to post on forums.

I will try to get his email address - I saw it somewhere online - and maybe you and him could start talking about the OLB. If I find his email address, I will send it to you in a pm here.

Edited by Abramelin, 28 June 2010 - 01:07 PM.


#27    Alewyn

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Posted 29 June 2010 - 08:29 AM

EDIT:

I think it would be an interesting idea to invite Goffe Jensma to this site, but I assume he won't have much time to post on forums.

I will try to get his email address - I saw it somewhere online - and maybe you and him could start talking about the OLB. If I find his email address, I will send it to you in a pm here.
[/quote]

Hi Abramelin,
I am still reviewing all the references you posted, but in the meantime I would like to share some extracts from my book with you. Icidently, I gave Riaan a copy of my book and introduced him to the old Zeno Map.

If we accept that the Oera Linda Book is a hoax, (which I  obviously don’t) we must admit that the perpetrator(s) must have had an extraordinary knowledge of classical history and the old authors. The following few quotes and references are only a small portion of the almost 200 quotes and references in my book. Please bear with me.

[u]Homer: (ca 800 BC?)[/u]
In one of my previous postings (and in my Book) I made the claim that Homer’s “Phaeacians” were the Frisians and that “Scheria” was the Schelde.

“Odyssey”, Book V, Page 1
“When he (Jove) had thus spoken, he said to his son Mercury, ‘Mercury, you are our messenger, go therefore and tell Calypso we have decreed that poor Ulysses is to return home. He is to be convoyed neither by gods nor men, but after a perilous voyage of twenty days upon a raft he is to reach fertile Scheria, the land of the Phaeacians, who are near of kin to the gods, and will honour him as though he were one of ourselves.”

OLB: “Book of Adela’s followers”, ch. XXX (2-4)
“2. On the largest of them was a king of the Jonhis Elenda whose name was Ulysus, the fame of whose wisdom was great. To him a priestess had prophesied that he should become the king of all Krekaland (Greece) provided he could obtain a lamp that had been lighted at the lamp in Texland. For this purpose he had brought great treasures with him, above all, jewels for women more beautiful than had ever been seen before. They were from Troia, a state that the Krekalandar had taken.”

Homer  mentioned that Ulysses came from Ithaca on the Ionian Islands. The OLB said he came from the “Jonhis Elenda.”(From “Jon-his Elanda” to “Jon-ian Islands” to “Ion-ian Islands”?)

Throughout the OLB we read of the Frisians’  maritime skills and sea voyages.
“Odyssey”, Book VIII, Page 5:
(King Alcinous describes the Phaeacians to Ulysses)

“We are not particularly remarkable for our boxing, nor yet as wrestlers, but we are singularly fleet of foot and are [u]excellent sailors[/u]. We are extremely fond of good dinners, music, and dancing; we also like frequent changes of linen, warm baths, and good beds, so now, please, some of you who are the best dancers set about dancing, that our guest on his return home may be able to tell his friends how much we surpass all other nations as sailors, runners, dancers and minstrels.”

“Odyssey”, Book VII, Page 3
(Homer relates Ulysses’ impressions of Alcinous’ house)
“As the Phaeacians are the best sailors in the world, so their women excel all others in weaving, for Minerva has taught them all manner of useful arts, and they are very intelligent.”

OLB: The Writings of Apollonia, ch. III
“5. Her short kilt of linen, and her tunic of wool, she spun and wove herself.”

[u]The Trojan War[/u]
According to Homer, the  Trojan war lasted for 10 years. Dares recorded that the war lasted 10 years, 6 months and 12 days. Both Homer and Dares claimed that there were more than 1100 ships involved. Ovid mentioned a fleet of 1000 ships:
(P. Ovidius Naso, “Metamorphoses”, Book XII)
“But soon afterwards, he brought into that land a ravished wife, Helen, the cause of a disastrous war, together with a thousand ships, and all the great Pelasgian nation”

We can thus safely assume that most of the sea-going vessels in the Aegean was tied up in this war and the associated logistics.
In the OLB, (“Book of Adela’s followers”, ch. XXX) we read:

“1. [u]After twelve years [/u]had elapsed without our seeing any Krekalandar (Greeks) in Almanland, there came three ships, finer than any that we possessed or had ever seen.”

Surely, this remark is just too casual to be part of a deliberate hoax.

[u]The Pelasgic Athenians[/u]

Before I go any further, I have to explain the terms: “Pelasgic” and “Barbarian” (I am trying to condense a whole chapter here)
In my book I show that the word “Pelasgic” come from “Pelasgos” which means “Sea”  and would therefore indicate “Sea People” (According to Vladimir Georgiev). The OLB referred to their Mariners as “Sea People”:
( The book of Adela’s followers, ch. XXIII)
“25. ...Many Magyarar fled back with their troops, and the [u]sea-people [/u]took ship, accompanied by a body of stalwart Finnar as rowers.”

In “the book of Adela’s followers”, (ch. XXX) the Frisians complained about the heckling they had to endure in Athens:
“14. If our simple parents came to a general assembly at Athenia and made complaints, a cry was raised, "Hear, Hear! There is a [u]sea-monster[/u] going to speak!"”

Even in Athens, therefore, they were known as “Sea People”.

The word “Barbarian” came from the Greek “Barbaros” or “Barbaroi” and simply meant speakers of the “Bar-bar” language which was foreign to the indigenous Greeks. (Compare with English “Blah-Blah”) Originally the word did not mean “savages”. On the contrary, they were highly respected. Ovid referred to the “Great” Pelasgic nation and Herodotus in the introduction to his “Histories” had the following to say:
“These are the researches of Herodotus of Halicarnassus, which he publishes, in the hope of thereby preserving from decay the remembrance of what men have done, and of preventing [u]the great and wonderful actions [/u]of the Greeks [u]and the Barbarians [/u]from losing their due meed of glory.”

Josephus (“Against Apion”, Book 1.11) had the following to say about the Barbarians:
“…(58) and I suppose I have sufficiently declared that this custom of transmitting down the histories of ancient times hath been better preserved by those nations which are called Barbarians, than by the Greeks themselves.”

In my book I quote other authors along the same lines.
Now I can come to my point:

The  OLB claims that Minerva Ny-Helenia founded Athens in ca 1628 BC (“Book of Adela’s followers”, ch. XXVIII)
Herewith some extracts from Herodotus’ “Histories” (Book I, p19)

“What the language of the Pelasgi (Sea People) was I cannot say with any certainty.”,
“we must pronounce that [u]the Pelasgi spoke a barbarous language[/u].”,
“[u]the Athenians, who were certainly Pelasgi[/u], must have changed their language at the same time that they passed into the Hellenic body”
”It was a branch of the Pelasgic, [u]which separated from the main body[/u], and at first was scanty in numbers and of little power; but it gradually spread and increased to a multitude of nations, chiefly by the voluntary entrance into its ranks of numerous tribes of barbarians. The Pelasgi, on the other hand, were, as I think, a barbarian race which never greatly multiplied.”

Thus, Frisians = Sea People = Pelasgics = Barbarians = Athenians = exactly as the OLB claims

[u]The 305 BC Flood[/u]

Frethorik Oera Linda recorded a natural disaster which devastated the Netherlands, Friesland, Denmark ( largely a peninsula) and Norway in 305 BC. (OLB: “The writings of  Frethorik and Wiliow”, Ch I) Here is an extract of his account:

“10. The Magy prided himself upon his cunning, but Irtha made him know that she would not tolerate any Magy or idol on the holy bosom that had borne Frya. As a wild horse tosses his mane after he has thrown his rider, so Irtha shook her forests and her mountains. Rivers flowed over the land; the sea raged; mountains spouted fire to the clouds, and what they vomited forth the clouds flung upon Irtha.
17. This happened in the year 1888  after the submersion of Atland” (305 BC)

Strabo (64 BC–24 AD), a Roman historian, referred in his “Geography” (7.2.1) to legends of a devastating flood that had struck the Cimbri:

“II. As for the Cimbri, some things that are told about them are incorrect and others are extremely [u]improbable. For instance, one could not accept such a reason for their having become a wandering and [/u]piratical folk as this – that while they were dwelling on a [u]Peninsula[/u] they were driven out of their habitations by a [u]great flood-tide[/u].”

Under “the Writings of Konered” (Chapter II) in the OLB, Konered describes how the Danes who survived the disaster turned to piracy:

“10. Afterwards many of the Denamarkar returned from the higher lands, but they settled more to the south; and when the navigators returned who had not been lost, they all went together to Seland. By this arrangement the Juttar retained the land to which Wr-alda had conducted them. The Selandar navigators, who were not satisfied to live upon fish, and who hated the Golar, [u]took to robbing the Phonisiar ships[/u].”
( The dawn of the age of the Vikings)

The following extract was taken from an article published in The New York Times on 29 December 2008:

“But several geologists have collected evidence indicating that something very big and unusual occurred in waters near the New York area around 300 B.C., give or take a century. And Dallas Abbott, a research scientist at Columbia University’s Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory, is asserting that a meteorite, landing somewhere in the Atlantic, generated the tsunami.”

[u]India[/u]
In Chapter XXVIII of “The Book of Adela’s Folloers”, the OLB describes how some of the (“Right-Wing”?)Frisians in Athens defied the local priests and elected their own leader by the name of Gert. They then called themselves the “Gertmanne”. They were subsequently kicked out of Athens and fled to India. (ca 1556 BC)
In India they called their new home “Gertmannia and started to clear the area. In the OLB under “The writings Of Konered” (Ch.VI) we read the following:

“21. On the west of the Pangab where we come from, and where I was born, the same fruits and crops grow as on the east side. Formerly there existed also the same crawling animals, but our forefathers [u]burnt all the under-wood[/u], and so diligently hunted all the wild animals, that there are scarcely any left.”

Richard Hooker on his Website “Ancient India, The Arians” says, inter alia, the following about the “Aryans”:
“When they arrived, the vast northern plains were almost certainly densely forested. Where now bare fields stretch to the horizon, when the Aryans arrived lush forests stretched to those very same horizons. [u]Clearing the forests over the centuries was an epic project and one that is still preserved in Indian literature[/u].”

According to the OLB the Gertmanne later relocated westwards where they established “Ny-Gertmannia”. By the time of Herodotus (ca 484 BC- 425 BC) the area was known “Gertmania” and on old Alexandrian maps (ca 320 BC) we find the province of “Carmania”. Today it is known as the province of “Kerman” in Iran.
These Gertmanne laid the foundations of the Persian Empire. In his “Histories” Herodotus wrote:

“The rest of the Persian tribes are the following:  The Panthialaeans, the Derusiaeans, [u]the Germanians[/u], who are engaged in husbandry; the Daans, the Mardians, the Dropicans, and the Sagartians, who are nomads.”

Herodotus (and other authors) referred to the Persians also as “Barbarians”.

Arrian of Nicomedia wrote the following in his “Anabasis Alexandri” (The  Campaigns of Alexander):

Book IIIb
“He now arrived in the land of the people formerly called Ariaspians, but afterwards named Euergetae, because they assisted Cyrus, son of Cambyses, in his invasion of Scythia. Alexander honoured these people, for the service which their ancestors had rendered to Cyrus; and when he ascertained that the men not only enjoyed a form of government unlike that of the other barbarians in that part of the world, [u]but laid claim to justice equally with the best of the Greeks[/u], he set them free, and gave them besides as much of the adjacent country as they asked for themselves; but they did not ask for much”

Book VIII, Indica:
“The Nysaeans are not an Indian race; but part of those who came with Dionysus to India; possibly even of those Greeks who became past service in the wars which Dionysus waged with Indians; possibly also volunteers of the neighbouring tribes whom Dionysus settled there together with the Greeks, calling the country Nysaea from the mountain Nysa, and the city itself Nysa”

[u]DNA Evidence[/u]
A report by Bijal P. Trivedi written in May 2001 entitled “Genetic evidence suggests European migrants may have influenced the origins of India’s caste system”, appear to provide the ultimate proof that the Gertmanne were the “Aryans”

“A new study has revealed that Indians belonging to higher castes are genetically closer to Europeans than are individuals from lower castes, whose genetic profiles are closer to those of Asians.”
“The authors believe their results support the notion that Europeans who migrated into India between 3,000 and 8,000 years ago may have merged with or imposed their social structure on the indigenous northern Indians and placed themselves into the highest castes.”

[u]The naval Battle of Salamis in 306 BC[/u]

OLB: The writings of Frethorik and Wiliow ch. II:

“31. He went once to the state of Salamis, and after he had been some time fighting there, he had an engagement with the fleet of Ptholemeus. Ptholemeus was the name of the prince who ruled over Egiptaland. Demetrius won the battle, not by his own soldiers, but because we helped him. We had done this out of friendship for Nearchus, because we knew that he was of b****** birth by his white skin, blue eyes, and fair hair”

The Antigonus we read of here would have been Antigonus I Monophthalmus (Antigonus "the One-eyed", 382 BC - 301 BC). He was a Macedonian nobleman, general and satrap under Alexander the Great. Demetrius, his son, would later become known as Demetrius I Poliorcetes (The Besieger), king of Macedon (294–288 BC). The Oera Linda Book refers to “The Besieger” as “the State Winner”.

Plutarch (“Life of Demetrius”, ch 16) described the defeat that Ptolemy and his brother Menelaus suffered at Salamis:

“1. Ptolemaeus advanced with 150 ships, and he had ordered Menelaus, with 60 more, to come out of the harbour of Salamis, in the heat of the battle, and put the enemy in disorder by falling on his rear.
2 Against these 60 ships, Demetrius appointed a guard of 10, for that number was sufficient to block up the mouth of the harbour. His land forces he ranged on the adjoining promontories, and then bore down upon his adversary with 180 ships.
3 This he did with so much impetuosity, that Ptolemaeus could not stand the shock, but was defeated, and fled with 8 ships only, which were all that he saved. For 70 were taken with their crews, and the rest were sunk in the engagement.”

History (not the OLB) tells us that Demetrius made use of private contractors during the battle of Salamis and the later siege of Rhodes. Exactly what the OLB claims.

[u]The Germans[/u]
The OLB relates the story of the return of the Gertmanne to Frisia in ca 300 BC. They became a distinct tribe separate from the Frisians, retained their name and also called their new home Gertmannia (around Emden). The Roman historians referred to “Germania” and the “Germans”
Tacitus, a Roman Senator and historian (ca 56 AD – ca 117 AD) wrote in his Germania some 350 years later:

“The Germans, I am apt to believe, derive their original from no other people; and are nowise mixed with different nations arriving amongst them: since anciently those who went in search of new buildings, travelled not by land, but [u]were carried in fleets[/u]; and into that mighty ocean so boundless, and, as I may call it, so repugnant and forbidding, ships from our world rarely enter.
For the rest, they affirm [u]Germany to be a recent word[/u], lately bestowed: for that those who first passed the Rhine and expulsed the Gauls, and are now named Tungrians, were then called Germans: and thus by degrees [u]the name of a tribe prevailed, not that of the nation[/u]; so that by an appellation at first occasioned by terror and conquest, they afterwards chose to be distinguished, and [u]assuming a name lately invented were universally called Germans[/u].”

In my book I compare Tacitus’ description of the Germans with Herodotus’ description of the Persians and the OLB’s description of the Frisians. The resemblance is absolutely astonishing.

I will give the last word here to Tacitus who (incorrectly), referred to all West Europeans as “Germans:

“Hitherto, I have been describing Germany towards the west. To the northward, it winds away with an immense compass. And first of all occurs the nation of the Chaucians: who though they begin immediately at the confines of the Frisians, and occupy part of the shore, extend so far as to border upon all the several people whom I have already recounted; till at last, by a Circuit, they reach quite to the boundaries of the Chatti.  A region so vast, the Chaucians do not only possess but fill; a people of all the Germans the most noble, such as would rather maintain their grandeur by justice than violence. They live in repose, retired from broils abroad, void of avidity to possess more, free from a spirit of domineering over others. They provoke no wars, they ravage no countries, they pursue no plunder. Of their bravery and power, the chief evidence arises from hence, that, without wronging or oppressing others, they are come to be superior to all. Yet they are all ready to arm, and if an exigency require, armies are presently raised, powerful and abounding as they are in men and horses; and even when they are quiet and their weapons laid aside, their credit and name continue equally high.”

I believe that this is exactly how the OLB tried to portray themselves.

I can go on and on but this posting is already  embarrassingly long.  Apart from the few quotes above from  the old authors, I provide, what I would like to believe, other conclusive evidence in terms of Archaeology, Genetics, linguistics, etc. that the OLB is authentic.
All that the proponents of “The Hoax Theory” can come up with is that the paper and the language used in the OLB is too modern, as well as some speculation as to “whodunit”. Surely nobody can realistically expect a paper document to last for 800 years. The OLB admits that it was rewritten. One can also realistically assume that, as the language evolved, the book may have been transcribed into the contemporary language of the day. This still does not make it a forgery as long as the historical facts were recorded accurately.
Other derogatory claims made is that the book is a viewed as a religious document by some and that it is also used by Neo-Nazis. (Some weirdos will even use a “Superman Comic” as a manifesto). To me the book is purely a book of historical importance and I found nothing in it to change my Christian convictions.
I cannot force anybody to read my book and I know there is not any money to be made out of it. (that is not my intention). I do, however, believe it to be a great tragedy that people are prepared to deny themselves such a rich history and would rather give the credit to “foreigners” (The Romans).
On the other hand, as an outsider, I may be missing some subtle nuances in Dutch-Frisian relations or politics.

Regards,
Alewyn


#28    Abramelin

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Posted 30 June 2010 - 12:06 PM

 Alewyn, on 29 June 2010 - 08:29 AM, said:


All that the proponents of "The Hoax Theory" can come up with is that the paper and the language used in the OLB is too modern, as well as some speculation as to "whodunit". Surely nobody can realistically expect a paper document to last for 800 years. The OLB admits that it was rewritten. One can also realistically assume that, as the language evolved, the book may have been transcribed into the contemporary language of the day. This still does not make it a forgery as long as the historical facts were recorded accurately.
Other derogatory claims made is that the book is a viewed as a religious document by some and that it is also used by Neo-Nazis. (Some weirdos will even use a "Superman Comic" as a manifesto). To me the book is purely a book of historical importance and I found nothing in it to change my Christian convictions.
I cannot force anybody to read my book and I know there is not any money to be made out of it. (that is not my intention). I do, however, believe it to be a great tragedy that people are prepared to deny themselves such a rich history and would rather give the credit to "foreigners" (The Romans).
On the other hand, as an outsider, I may be missing some subtle nuances in Dutch-Frisian relations or politics.

Regards,
Alewyn

The hoax theory is mainly based on linguistics, and not so much on the material the OLB was written on.

It's also fact that here in Holland during the 19th century there was a fierce discussion between progressive Christian reformatists (the 'free', or Freya ) and the orthodox Christians (the 'Fijnen', or Finnen; even my own parents used this word, 'Fijnen' , for fanatic bible thumpers ).

The absolute proof the OLB is authentic  would be if the OLB described true events and real places in the ancient past of which nothing was known in the 19th century, but which became known long after the OLB was published..


#29    Alewyn

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Posted 30 June 2010 - 05:32 PM

 Abramelin, on 30 June 2010 - 12:06 PM, said:

The hoax theory is mainly based on linguistics, and not so much on the material the OLB was written on.

It's also fact that here in Holland during the 19th century there was a fierce discussion between progressive Christian reformatists (the 'free', or Freya ) and the orthodox Christians (the 'Fijnen', or Finnen; even my own parents used this word, 'Fijnen' , for fanatic bible thumpers ).

The absolute proof the OLB is authentic  would be if the OLB described true events and real places in the ancient past of which nothing was known in the 19th century, but which became known long after the OLB was published..

I thought that is exactly what I did in this forum over the last few days. You, however, appear to ignore it all. Do yourself a favour and read them again. Also, ask yourself this question: "If the Oera Linda Book is a hoax and prof. Jensma has already proven it years ago, why does he still waste his time by producing a new translation of this rubbish?"
As for me, I have had my say.
Regards,
Alewyn


#30    Abramelin

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Posted 30 June 2010 - 05:43 PM

 Alewyn, on 30 June 2010 - 05:32 PM, said:

I thought that is exactly what I did in this forum over the last few days. You, however, appear to ignore it all. Do yourself a favour and read them again. Also, ask yourself this question: "If the Oera Linda Book is a hoax and prof. Jensma has already proven it years ago, why does he still waste his time by producing a new translation of this rubbish?"
As for me, I have had my say.
Regards,
Alewyn

No, I didn't ignore it all, everything you wrote before I can read back in the book written by Overwijn (1951).

That's why I ask you again: which (English) translation have you been using?

And the DNA thing only proves Caucasians entered the Indian subcontinent as 'Aryans', something that was already known (or at least strongly suspected) a century ago.

EDIT:

And you are greatly underestimating what the people living in the 19th century knew of ancient Greek and Roman historians.

.

Edited by Abramelin, 30 June 2010 - 06:12 PM.