11638 replies to this topic

[The Puzzler]

Abramelin, on 27 October 2010 - 04:45 PM, said:

From the same link:

The craters or their embankments do not contain marine sediments. Therefore the craters cannot be older than the time the area emerged from the sea. The explosion scattered into the air abundantly fine particles of soil and rock, which by melting formed glassy spherules. These spherules have been found in mires and lake sedimets in the vicinity of the craters. The age of the layers of peat with microimpactites is 7500 to 7600 years, which is the most probable age of the Kaali craters

People like Ottema and Alewyn would not be happy with that date, but people like Overwijn and I most certainly would, lol.

EDIT:

In the Doggerland thread I suggested that maybe a spiralling comet (like Hale-Bopp) impacted into the North Sea, causing the Storegga Slide and the subsequent tsunami that whiped out the last remnants of Doggerland. An impact remembered by the people living around the North Sea, in their cup-and-circle petroglyphs, circular shaped henges and labyrinths.

The Kaali impact may have been one of many, and one fragment of the comet may have impacted west of Norway causing the Storegga Slide.

If the original comet was a spiralling one (= outgassing sideways and rotating, like Hale-Bopp), it must have been an awesome and scary heavenly phenomenon (because it must have been close to earth, and maybe brighter and larger than the full moon), and one causing a Biblical sized flood.

Something the people who survived would certainly remember in their myths.

The Storegga Slide (= the last one) happened at 6145 BC according to radiocarbon dated samples taken from the North Sea floor, that's 8145 years ago. Give and take an error of a couple of centuries, AND taking into account that science thinks the final submergence of Dogger Island (that's AFTER the Storegga Slide) took place around 5500-5000 BC, the Kaali comet would be a great candidate.


FYI: Ottema equated the event at 2193 BC (the flooding of the North Sea plain) with the Cimbrian Flood. And so did Overwijn, the second person who translated the OLB (first edition 1941, second edition - the one I have - 1951). But Overwijn said it happened around 6250 BC.
.

5500BC, I think it's the Phaethon story. I will follow it up more. I don't think it would have to hit the Slide (area), the impact on the Earth in Estonia imo would have a geological effect all the way through, possible slides could have occurred. Seems in the German Bight from the pictures (Dogger area, not just the bank), Heligoland area and we know Heligoland was very large, with only channels between it and the mainland, it's sedimentry rock, unusual. I will check this out more, just got up, need coffee....

Edited by The Puzzler, 27 October 2010 - 10:45 PM.

[The Puzzler]

http://docs.google.c...VHoSvB5nrb_RduA

"The grave where the sun fell dead"....

Happy Happy Joy Joy!

[Alewyn]

The Puzzler, on 27 October 2010 - 04:01 PM, said:

Reasons Alewyn gave for flooding event c. 2193BC cannot be proven fact in scientific circles, that being an extraterrestial impact in the Indian Ocean.


Alewyn, I'm afraid as much as I think your book is a terrific read it cannot be escaped that the group officially investigating the Burckle Impact date it to c.2800BC. This is where the problem is arising.


I know that doesn't equate to 2193BC but neither does the Northern Europeans having iron weapons.

Puzzler,  Bruce Massy says the date is ca. 2800 BC and Dallas Abbott says 2500 BC. Neither of them has proven their dates and admit that at this stage the date is guesswork. The interesting thing is this: Bruce Massy admits that he based his date on the widely speculated date of 2800 BC for the Biblical flood.
Nothing more. You can check this for yourself.
The OLB aside. If you use the date of 2193 BC for the Biblical Flood and other flood myths, the dates and chronology checks out exactly. It is realy a pity that you have not examined that part of my book in more detail.

[The Puzzler]

Alewyn, on 28 October 2010 - 08:11 AM, said:

Puzzler,  Bruce Massy says the date is ca. 2800 BC and Dallas Abbott says 2500 BC. Neither of them has proven their dates and admit that at this stage the date is guesswork. The interesting thing is this: Bruce Massy admits that he based his date on the widely speculated date of 2800 BC for the Biblical flood.
Nothing more. You can check this for yourself.
The OLB aside. If you use the date of 2193 BC for the Biblical Flood and other flood myths, the dates and chronology checks out exactly. It is realy a pity that you have not examined that part of my book in more detail.

Bruce Massy admits that he based his date on the widely speculated date of 2800 BC for the Biblical flood.
Nothing more. You can check this for yourself.

You have pretty much done the same thing yourself but you are putting the Biblical Flood at 2193BC.



The flood layer in Sumeria dates to 2800BC and the Sumerian King List tallies to that timeframe also as the Flood date of c. 2800BC.

I'd be interested in a dating for the Kaali Crater myself and to me, this is where the Magyar, Finns might have come from and it sounds like Atland to me. Estonia area. I've read some pdf's and there is 3 dates being thrown around for Kaali, I'd like to see one at 2200BC myself. There is nothing to say really the Kaali didn't impact at 2193BC.

Just like your impact.

There's another in Western Egypt less than 5000 years old. I was wondering if impacts came at the same time, some fell in Estonia, one fell on the Western Desert in Egypt (which the Phaethon myth also has him burning black the faces of the Ethiopians) and one fell into the Indian Ocean.

I'd like to date the Kaali impact to 2193BC.

[The Puzzler]

Abramelin, on 27 October 2010 - 08:29 PM, said:

This is an excellent pdf file on Impact Tectonics and all dating of the Kaali Crater.

http://books.google.... crater&f=false

Page 349 it starts as this: Traditionally, in Estonia the age of the impact is placed at some 4000 yr BP.

The whole research ends with this:

"At least 3390+_35 years old, however, actually they should be much older." Apparently it was rather weak and didn't cause any ecological disaster in the environment.

Edit to add: The uplifted dolomite seems to indicate a fairly hard impact though...

Edited by The Puzzler, 28 October 2010 - 09:49 AM.

[The Puzzler]

So, the Estonians themselves say it is around 2000BC, I find that interesting and am going to milk it for all it's worth. Pretty much like what Alewyn is doing anyway, and trying to put history against myth is tricky at the best of times. The people who have first hand recorded the event imo have a good idea of when it occurred. It seems to be in the Finnish Sagas too.

It would have created tsunami's, whatever size, throughout the Baltic. Gotland looks a perfect candidate to have been hit by huge waves, west of Saaremaa.

The hole it made is very deep so even though it doesn't appear to have spread, it should be noted that not only is the hole said to be the entrance to Hell as well as being one of 9 seperate impacts in the area, imo it could have started underground activity that may have went on to become earthquakes or whatever, guesswork there, but really, if 9 iron meteors hit the island and surrounds, I find it hard to believe it wouldn't have caused quite some damage in some way.

Fires would be a given for a start and it is mentioned it did cause fire in the Finnish saga, not only that but the heroes went to the area and got some fire from it. Fire was, obviously hard to get and probably a main reason to keep the fire alight at all times, probably started by this sacred fire the Finnish heroes bought back from Kaali in the first place!

Iron meteorites. Should I even start on the iron, I think I said everything. Or not. The Gods had iron weapons. The sky Gods that is, sounds like throwing down meteors might equate to sky Gods (Aesir) using iron weapons. This was a war between the Aesir and Vanir, the Vanir were more like the earth Gods.

The Icelandic generic name for deity (Ás, pl. Æsir) is also found in Etruscan (Ais/Eis, pl. Aisar/Eisar). The Old High German “Ans”, is a corrupt form of "eins-Ás", which means “a god in general”.

The name Vanir refers to the gods that people were “accustomed to” (vanir við). The name Ynja/Ynjur is a corrupt form of Icelandic “venja/venjur” (custom/customs). So basically and logically Vanir and Ynjur are the masculine and famine forms of the customary vegetative/earthly gods that people were accustomed to, before the advent of Æsir – the sky gods.

---
Grimm further notes a resemblance the name of the gods of the Etruscans reported by Suetonius and Hesychius, æsares or æsi. He notes that Etruscan religion, as well as Greek (Dodekatheon) and Roman polytheism, supposed a circle of twelve superior beings closely "bound" together, as it were forming a fasces, in Rome known as the dii consentes paralleling the Eddic expressions höpt and bönd "bond" for the Æsir.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%86sir

The name of Saaremaa actually translates to Isle's Land - island.

The island is called Saaremaa in Estonian, and in Finnish Saarenmaa — literally "isle's land". In old Scandinavian sagas, Saaremaa is called Eysysla and in the Icelandic Sagas Eysýsla, which means exactly the same as the name of the island in Estonian: "the district (land) of island". This is the origin of the island's name in Danish Øsel, German and Swedish, Ösel, Gutnish Oysl, and in Latin, Osilia. The name Eysysla appears sometimes together with Adalsysla, "the big land", perhaps 'Suuremaa' or 'Suur Maa' in Estonian, which refers to mainland Estonia. In Latvian, the island is called Sāmsala, which means "the island of Saami".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saaremaa

or the island of Saami.

The Aestian nations are the Estonians, the Aestii on old maps, imo.
So, it's all Finno-Urgit area in the East, Estonia, a very possible place that these Magyar priests came in, Finno-Urgit speaking Saami, Lapps, called Finns for a long time.

Apparently it was recorded the Estonians use the same customs as the Swedes, wrote Tacitus. (At that time I gather)

The extent of Estonian territory in early medieval times is disputed but the nature of their religion is not. They were known to the Scandinavians as experts in wind-magic, as were the Lapps (known at the time as Finns) in the North.
http://en.wikipedia....Ancient_Estonia

This link Abe, I think was the one you gave, I had so many up I forget, it says: page 270 "Possibly 1690BC - 1510BC."

I did see the date you are trying to swing and it seems somewhat feasible considering how unsure the dates are and the reasoning for that timeframe (6500-5500BC) but it also says the island might have been underwater at the time...

I could go either if it wasn't for the OLB and a reasoning I can see for a sinking of a place called Atland in the East where Finda's people were as well as further East, all East people were Findas imo, that could mean to the Himalayas.

The impact could account for the very solemn priests and all the ways mentioned accordingly, Mother Goddess, wind-magicians, fire, entrance to Hell, people knew about it, remembered it, it was legend and said to have occurred c. 2000BC to the Estonians themselves.

But 800-700BC would suit iron weapons much better and also is the timeframe given for Etruscans to have made their mark in Etruria. Apparently in Estonia, Eastern Europe is where the iron age occurred first c. 1000BC.

The date of 1690-1510BC fits with the dates given for Thera's eruption too.


I personally think it's a much better candidate for an impact if their was one at all involved in the OLB story and believe me I'm not adverse to some sort of tilt in the Earth but don't believe their is sufficient proof to say it happened. I have a thread here called Axial Tilt = Climate Change = Phaethon Theory  http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=174415&st=0&p=3266638&fromsearch=1&#entry3266638

It was a while back now and I have much more info I know now but the point is, I found lots of reasons to believe there had been an axial tilt myself. One of was, Plato's mention of a declination in the Heavens being what was meant by the Phaethon myth, not to mention heaps of things in myths.

I thought it might be axial tilt and then I thought about it some more and realised, it could mean a declination (of a body) in the Heavens, a falling in the Heavens, not the actual sky declining, changing as if we moved. But what impact could it be, somehow I must have missed Kaali at the time.

http://en.wikipedia....ki/Kaali_crater

Edited by The Puzzler, 28 October 2010 - 11:45 AM.

[Abramelin]

"I did see the date you are trying to swing and it seems somewhat feasible considering how unsure the dates are and the reasoning for that timeframe (6500-5500BC) but it also says the island might have been underwater at the time..."


I didn't 'swing' anything, I just copied what was said as conclusion:

The craters or their embankments do not contain marine sediments. Therefore the craters cannot be older than the time the area emerged from the sea. The explosion scattered into the air abundantly fine particles of soil and rock, which by melting formed glassy spherules. These spherules have been found in mires and lake sedimets in the vicinity of the craters. The age of the layers of peat with microimpactites is 7500 to 7600 years, which is the most probable age of the Kaali craters.

But yes, the date is uncertain:

"The precise age the impact event remains controversial:

About 4000 BP (Before the present), based on recent radiocarbon - and pollen-dating of sediments infilling the main crater (Saarse et al., 1991);

Either 370 to 400 BCE (Before the Common Era) (Rassmussen et al., 2000), or up to

7600 BP (Raukas, 1997, 2000), according to indirect dating from surrounding mire deposits."

http://go2add.com/me...s/Kaalijarv.php


Btw, that last link also has a lot of interesting pics and sketches.

One of which shows the direction of the comet:


Figure 1. Showing the direction of the meteorite.


...and more or less makes it rather useless for my own pet theory.

EDIT:

There appears to be a confusion about the trajectory of the comet. Puzz, this pdf, the one you posted, shows us the comet came from the opposite direction:

http://www.gi.ee/~ve...aali review.pdf




.

Edited by Abramelin, 28 October 2010 - 01:42 PM.

[Abramelin]

Here's a pdf you will like, Puzz (as far as I know you didn't post it already):

ECHOES OF ANCIENT CATACLYSMS IN THE BALTIC SEA

And they use the 2000 BC date as most probable.

---

Another thing: I don't think an impact the size of Kaali could cause the earth's axis to tilt.

Nevertheless, it was very impressive and devastating.


.

Edited by Abramelin, 28 October 2010 - 02:53 PM.

[The Puzzler]

Yes, I thought I read from North North East....because I was thinking how that could cause a tsunami towards Gotland...(?)

In fact, I see alot of conflicting info on it, I think investigation on a new level is fairly new and it's alot of guesswork, really.

As for Doggerland, I read the date of 5500BC for the glass microimpactites may be from an earlier impact in the area...(?)

[The Puzzler]

Abramelin, on 28 October 2010 - 02:00 PM, said:

Here's a pdf you will like, Puzz (as fas as I know you didn't post it already):

ECHOES OF ANCIENT CATACLYSMS IN THE BALTIC SEA

And they use the 2000 BC date as most probable.

---

Another thing: I don't think an impact the size of Kaali could cause the earth's axis to tilt.

Nevertheless, it was very impressive and devastating.


.

Cool, just got (back here, I should have said) here, will read your previous post properly too and this one.

I don't either. No earth tilt. Just a possible meteoric impact in a similar time frame to the 4.2ky Bond Event which may have exacerbated the effects of the impacts initial destruction, if fires burned from the impact, possible heating up at the same time would make the fires burn uncontrollably longer, spreading further...that sort of thing.

From what I've briefly read on Doggerland, it doesn't seem as though it needed an impact to have occurred anyway.
A recent hypothesis is that much of the remaining coastal land, already much reduced in size from the original land area, was inundated by a tsunami around 8200BP (6200BC), caused by a submarine landslide off the coast of Norway known as the Storegga Slide. This theory suggests "that the Storegga Slide tsunami would have had a catastrophic impact on the contemporary coastal Mesolithic population... Following the Storegga Slide tsunami, it appears, Britain finally became separated from the continent and, in cultural terms, the Mesolithic there goes its own way."
http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Doggerland

Edited by The Puzzler, 28 October 2010 - 02:20 PM.

[Abramelin]

The Puzzler, on 28 October 2010 - 02:19 PM, said:

Cool, just got (back here, I should have said) here, will read your previous post properly too and this one.

I don't either. No earth tilt. Just a possible meteoric impact in a similar time frame to the 4.2ky Bond Event which may have exacerbated the effects of the impacts initial destruction, if fires burned from the impact, possible heating up at the same time would make the fires burn uncontrollably longer, spreading further...that sort of thing.

From what I've briefly read on Doggerland, it doesn't seem as though it needed an impact to have occurred anyway.
A recent hypothesis is that much of the remaining coastal land, already much reduced in size from the original land area, was inundated by a tsunami around 8200BP (6200BC), caused by a submarine landslide off the coast of Norway known as the Storegga Slide. This theory suggests "that the Storegga Slide tsunami would have had a catastrophic impact on the contemporary coastal Mesolithic population... Following the Storegga Slide tsunami, it appears, Britain finally became separated from the continent and, in cultural terms, the Mesolithic there goes its own way."
http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Doggerland

If you read the last couple of pages of the Doggerland threaf, you will see maps that show that a fairly large area of Doggerland was still above sealevel at the moment the Storegga Slide took place at 6145 BC.

But yes, it is known that the submarine area west of Norway was very instable and could have slided on it's own without outside causes, although there are those who think an earthquake (maybe because of the isostatic rebound/adjustment) could have triggered the Storegga Slide.

The reason I started about a possible comet impact west of Norway is because I tried to explain the numerous cup-and-circle petroglyphs found around the North Sea, and the labyrinths and henges that came after them.

Well, read it for yourself.

[The Puzzler]

Abramelin, on 28 October 2010 - 02:00 PM, said:

Here's a pdf you will like, Puzz (as fas as I know you didn't post it already):

ECHOES OF ANCIENT CATACLYSMS IN THE BALTIC SEA

And they use the 2000 BC date as most probable.

---

Another thing: I don't think an impact the size of Kaali could cause the earth's axis to tilt.

Nevertheless, it was very impressive and devastating.


.

Straight into the link it mentions about the Black Sea Flood c. 5400BC, that seems to me to be in possible relation to the date you are seeking. If a submarine landslide off Norway caused a huge tsunami that finished off Doggerland and the sea rose even higher, it makes sense it would rise into the Mediterranean too, possibly overflowing that way into the Black Sea.

Isostatic rebound would cause instability off Norway, all this toing and froing literally, water up, water down, land up, land down, it doesn't suprise me there would have been landslides generated.

Yes, I see the clear statement on the date, pretty much how it appeared when summarised to me. I don't think it would have been recalled as well so far back as 5500BC, and that 2000BC seems a logical date based on the myths coming into Greece in the forms they did, of particular ones to do with that area, I think whoever the Colchians were, they seem to be a city built on amber, which means they are a Nordic or Northern European Estonian people, Medea the sorceress sounds very shamanistic to me, a priestess, magician, if that was on the Black Sea, all well and good, there is evidence of early amber trade in Anatolia, the amber route.

It seems to me though that Colchis may have actually been the city the Greeks knew of as the city where amber and golden fleeces could be gained. You know, as odd as it seems, golden is like the sun or like amber, being a golden Sun (amber) city run by Helios, who is actually King Aeetes of Aia/Aea.

ai might be the beginning of the aiser word - an early Icelandic word for God. Since ais is plural.

That pdf says East to West.

What a nice pdf, it let's me copy/paste:
It is hard to imagine what went on in the minds of the humans who
saw flaming chunks of the sky fall to earth, heard the sonic boom of
the streaking fragments and the ear-splitting crash, felt the ground
shudder beneath their feet, and were engulfed by a great cloud of
dust and ash.
Trees, animals, and dwellings within a radius of 2–5km from the site would have been destroyed, a forest fire would
have been ignited, and the survivors would have had to run for
their lives to avoid asphyxiation from the vaporized and pulverized
matter and gases. This may have been the greatest meteorite impact
ever in a populated area. It was truly a fearsome and spectacular
event, more than enough to alter existing world-views and to
inspire new tales and songs.
The long-tailed fireball would have been brighter than the sun, visible
not just on Saaremaa but as far as 700 km (450 miles) away
(Meri 1984: 55; Tiirmaa 1994: 65). Included in the area of direct
observability are much of southern Finland and Karelia, the
Novgorod area of Russia, the Polish coast, and lower Sweden. To
the witnesses in this vast area, it would have appeared that a heavenly
body, perhaps the sun, was chased through the sky by something
long and fiery and was annihilated.


It has apparently been recorded in Finnish mythology as being seen from Finland at the time, I'm intrigued by that story as it tells how they got the fire from it and then we know how sacred the fire is in some of these old religions, eternal flames, central fires etc.

It throws my Atlantis out of the water at Plato's date, because to me, it has to be equated with the Phaethon event.

OK, sorry this is all very off-topic I spose. But I think it might explain the sinking of Atland so may help go towards proving the OLB somewhat and also shows a taking of the mythic stories into Greece from this area.

[Abramelin]

"Straight into the link it mentions about the Black Sea Flood c. 5400BC, that seems to me to be in possible relation to the date you are seeking. If a submarine landslide off Norway caused a huge tsunami that finished off Doggerland and the sea rose even higher, it makes sense it would rise into the Mediterranean too, possibly overflowing that way into the Black Sea."

Nah, that would mean a tsunami lasting for 7 centuries, lol.

And they don't turn corners.

No, I really don't think the flooding of Doggerland in 6145 BC and the Black Sea flood at 5400 BC had any relationship.

EDIT:

Talking about tsunamis..if the Kaali comet struck into the Baltic area, would a tsunami have been the result? And if so, is there proof on the surrounding shores of a deposit of sea sediment? If there is, and they date those layers, they will have a more exact date of the impact.

.

Edited by Abramelin, 28 October 2010 - 03:32 PM.

[The Puzzler]

Abramelin, on 28 October 2010 - 02:52 PM, said:

If you read the last couple of pages of the Doggerland threaf, you will see maps that show that a fairly large area of Doggerland was still above sealevel at the moment the Storegga Slide took place at 6145 BC.

But yes, it is known that the submarine area west of Norway was very instable and could have slided on it's own without outside causes, although there are those who think an earthquake (maybe because of the isostatic rebound/adjustment) could have triggered the Storegga Slide.

The reason I started about a possible comet impact west of Norway is because I tried to explain the numerous cup-and-circle petroglyphs found around the North Sea, and the labyrinths and henges that came after them.

Well, read it for yourself.

Yep, I'm up on the circle structures that seem to show this ringed structure...didn't miss them.

http://docs.google.c...VHoSvB5nrb_RduA

The ancient Greek myth about Phaeton, the son of Sun, who, driving the solar chariot, lost the power over the horses and tumbled into the mysterious river of Eridanos, also leads one's thoughts to the Kaali catastrophe.

One day a young man stepped up to the God of Sun and claimed that he was Phaeton, the son of the God of Sun himself and an earthborn woman Klymene. The young man had doubted his high parentage and demanded affirmation. The God of Sun admitted it, and, as an affirmation, promised to carry out his fondest wish. The boy, who had often admired sun disc's journey across the firmament, uttered an unexpected wish: he wanted to drive the sun chariot across the sky.

Hearing that, the God of Sun regretted his easily given promise. He tried to persuade the youngster to wish for something else, but without success. The boy, taking no heed of the menaces he was told about, had his will. At first the drive came off quite well and Phaeton felt himself almost the lord of the sky. But then the things took a tragic turn: the spirited horses, feeling that the reins were in weak hands, became frisky and sheered from the right direction. The youngster lost power over the horses, who now dashed up to the skies, now turned right down to the Earth so that forests and fields there caught fire, rivers and fountains evaporated and dried out.

When the cries and lamentations from the Earth reached Jupiter's ears, the latter, in this emergency, seized his lightning bolts and punished the irresponsible charioteer. The blazing Phaeton shot through the air and fell on the Earth into the mysterious river of Eridanos, which no mortal eye has seen. Phaeton's sisters Heliads, daughters of the God of Sun, Helios, sought out their brother's grave to bemoan him there. The mourning sisters were turned into poplar trees on the banks of Eridanos.
http://muinas.strukt...ml/legends.html

Did you see mention of the stone walls 2 metres high being built around the crater..?

I like your idea and think it fits with the circles that seem to relate to Kaali but seems the evidence for the circle shape preceeds Kaali, if dated at 2000BC.

The judgement stone circles of iron age Europe may be more relative as it has the fire in the middle of the circle, found throughout Europe.

I don't think a meteorite is out of the question for Doggerland c. 5500-6000BC as it was saying the evidence for that date could be from an older hit.

[The Puzzler]

Abramelin, on 28 October 2010 - 03:27 PM, said:

"Straight into the link it mentions about the Black Sea Flood c. 5400BC, that seems to me to be in possible relation to the date you are seeking. If a submarine landslide off Norway caused a huge tsunami that finished off Doggerland and the sea rose even higher, it makes sense it would rise into the Mediterranean too, possibly overflowing that way into the Black Sea."

Nah, that would mean a tsunami lasting for 7 centuries, lol.

And they don't turn corners.

No, I really don't think the flooding of Doggerland in 6145 BC and the Black Sea flood at 5400 BC had any relationship.

EDIT:

Talking about tsunamis..if the Kaali comet struck into the Baltic area, would a tsunami have been the result? And if so, is there proof on the surrounding shores of a deposit of sea sediment? If there is, and they date those layers, they will have a more exact date of the impact.

.

I was thinking that, I'm checking tsunami damage in Gotland first, can you see anything of interest in this huge list?
http://www.gi.ee/~veski/Kirjandus.html

I just meant, in general, sea level would have risen, but maybe even the Danube flooded and water was carried in from that direction, eventually it flooded over and mixed with the saltier Mediterranean...anyway, just an off thought. 6145BC, ok, stamped it in now. But this sorta says 5000BC to me:
The Dogger Bank, which had been an upland area of Doggerland, is believed to have remained as an island until at least 5000BC.

Heligoland looks like it would have been part of it. I can see why this has intrigued you, maybe I will follow Doggerland up some more.

Iceland seems to have some sort of history I'm not seeing anywhere, the word ais was actually Icelandic.