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[Archived]Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood


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#4501    Abramelin

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Posted 28 April 2011 - 09:42 AM

View PostOtharus, on 28 April 2011 - 02:29 AM, said:

bull Abe.

It's just beyond the capacities of your mind and that makes you feel uncomfortable.

No, it's child's play.

You don't need many capacities at all, just good eyesight and basic knowledge of how to read.

Do you have any idea why linguists are not eager to take part here? It's not because of my behaviour, it's because many get tears in their eyes when they read what's been posted here under the name 'linguistics'.


#4502    Otharus

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Posted 28 April 2011 - 01:34 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 28 April 2011 - 09:42 AM, said:

Do you have any idea why linguists are not eager to take part here? It's not because of my behaviour, it's because many get tears in their eyes when they read what's been posted here under the name 'linguistics'.
So will regular historians and regular geologists, maybe, but this thread is about alternative 'sciences'.
I don't think very much of regular 'linguists' anyway.
(And who used the name 'linguistics' for what I do? Not me.)

So it's not just linguists who don't join, but I don't care, just thinking out loud here and have made lots of progress in the last half year doing that. Reading again what I posted, and the intelligent replies to that, help me in the process of solving riddles, one at a time.

There's people (like you) who are good at finding things on the web that others wrote, and there's people (like Alewyn, Puzzler and me) who use their own creative minds to find answers that others didn't think of.

To you, anything new that you don't immediately understand is "crap".

"Child's play" to me is a positive qualification, as they still know how to use their imagination.


#4503    Abramelin

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Posted 28 April 2011 - 01:41 PM

View PostOtharus, on 28 April 2011 - 01:34 PM, said:

So will regular historians and regular geologists, maybe, but this thread is about alternative 'sciences'.
I don't think very much of regular 'linguists' anyway.
(And who used the name 'linguistics' for what I do? Not me.)

So it's not just linguists who don't join, but I don't care, just thinking out loud here and have made lots of progress in the last half year doing that. Reading again what I posted, and the intelligent replies to that, help me in the process of solving riddles, one at a time.

There's people (like you) who are good at finding things on the web that others wrote, and there's people (like Alewyn, Puzzler and me) who use their own creative minds to find answers that others didn't think of.

To you, anything new that you don't immediately understand is "crap".

"Child's play" to me is a positive qualification, as they still know how to use their imagination.

Oh hell, I can imagine a lot of things and my dreams can be spectacular, really.

But if you want to prove a controversial manuscript like the OLB, you will have to come up with a lot more than trying to twist every word in that book to something that may look like proof of some sort.

And btw, to be able to find things on the web that matter here, you must be creative.

Ask yourself why I am the one who did find many things (archeology), and not the rest of you?


#4504    Otharus

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Posted 28 April 2011 - 02:04 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 28 April 2011 - 01:41 PM, said:

Ask yourself why I am the one who did find many things (archeology), and not the rest of you?
As for me, I'm not looking for it very much.

Apart from the bad connection here and working mostly offline anyway, I keep finding enough treasures in the OLB-text itself.


#4505    Abramelin

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Posted 28 April 2011 - 02:10 PM

View PostOtharus, on 28 April 2011 - 02:04 PM, said:

As for me, I'm not looking for it very much.

Apart from the bad connection here and working mostly offline anyway, I keep finding enough treasures in the OLB-text itself.

OK, I can understand that you problems finding things because of a bad connection.

But you will have to agree with me that archeological proof will be a lot more convincing then etymology.

And I have actively sought after archeological proof, and I did find things that came close to something resembling proof.

.

Edited by Abramelin, 28 April 2011 - 02:10 PM.


#4506    The Puzzler

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Posted 28 April 2011 - 02:43 PM

Etruscan.
Another proposal, currently pursued mainly by a few linguists from the former Soviet Union, suggests a relationship with Northeast Caucasian (or Nakh-Daghestanian) languages
http://en.wikipedia....ruscan_language


The Land of Apples...
The Proto-Northeast Caucasian language had many terms for agriculture, and Johanna Nichols has suggested that its speakers may have been involved in the development of agriculture in the Fertile Crescent.[9] They had words for concepts such as yoke, as well as fruit trees such as apple and pear that suggest agriculture was already well developed when the proto-language broke up.
http://en.wikipedia....heast_Caucasian

The apple imo is the biggest symbol of them all - Nyhellenia has the apples, the bucket of apples, or basket, like the symbology of the Oseberg ship burial bucket of apples, a possible food to take to the underworld - a proper interpretation or same as pomegranite. A definite symbol of the underworld whatever way you look at it - one connection I found was that it represented the Sun in Slavic religion. A source of immortality for the Norse.

Idunn's apples - Apples of Eden?, garden of Yden and her apples

Posted Image


In Norse mythology, the goddess Iðunn is portrayed in the Prose Edda (written in the 13th century by Snorri Sturluson) as providing apples to the gods that give them eternal youthfulness. English scholar H. R. Ellis Davidson links apples to religious practices in Germanic paganism, from which Norse paganism developed. She points out that buckets of apples were found in the Oseberg ship burial site in Norway, and that fruit and nuts (Iðunn having been described as being transformed into a nut in Skáldskaparmál) have been found in the early graves of the Germanic peoples in England and elsewhere on the continent of Europe, which may have had a symbolic meaning, and that nuts are still a recognized symbol of fertility in southwest England.[12]

Davidson notes a connection between apples and the Vanir, a tribe of gods associated with fertility in Norse mythology, citing an instance of eleven "golden apples" being given to woo the beautiful Gerðr by Skírnir, who was acting as messenger for the major Vanir god Freyr in stanzas 19 and 20 of Skírnismál. Davidson also notes a further connection between fertility and apples in Norse mythology in chapter 2 of the Völsunga saga when the major goddess Frigg sends King Rerir an apple after he prays to Odin for a child, Frigg's messenger (in the guise of a crow) drops the apple in his lap as he sits atop a mound.[13] Rerir's wife's consumption of the apple results in a six-year pregnancy and the Caesarean section birth of their son - the hero Völsung.[14]

Further, Davidson points out the "strange" phrase "Apples of Hel" used in an 11th-century poem by the skald Thorbiorn Brúnarson. She states this may imply that the apple was thought of by the skald as the food of the dead. Further, Davidson notes that the potentially Germanic goddess Nehalennia is sometimes depicted with apples and that parallels exist in early Irish stories. Davidson asserts that while cultivation of the apple in Northern Europe extends back to at least the time of the Roman Empire and came to Europe from the Near East, the native varieties of apple trees growing in Northern Europe are small and bitter. Davidson concludes that in the figure of Iðunn "we must have a dim reflection of an old symbol: that of the guardian goddess of the life-giving fruit of the other world."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple

-----------------

The word Eve is said as Evin -

The word “Eva” is too sacred for common use, therefore men have learned to say “Evin.”

“Eva” means that sentiment which is implanted in the breast of every man in order that he may know what is right and what is wrong, and by which he is able to judge his own deeds and those of others; that is, if he has been well and properly brought up. “Eva” has also another meaning; that is, tranquil, smooth, like water that is not stirred by a breath of wind. If the water is disturbed it becomes troubled, uneven, but it always has a tendency to return to its tranquil condition. That is its nature, just as the inclination towards justice and freedom exists in Frya’s children. We derive this disposition from the spirit of our father Wr-alda, which speaks strongly in Frya’s children, and will eternally remain so. Eternity is another symbol of Wr-alda, who remains always just and unchangeable.



Even:

even (adj.)
O.E. efen "level," also "equal, like; calm, harmonious; quite, fully; namely," from P.Gmc. *ebnaz (cf. O.S. eban, O.Fris. even "level, plain, smooth," Du. even, O.H.G. eban, Ger. eben, O.N. jafn, Dan. jævn, Goth. ibns). Etymologists are uncertain whether the original sense was "level" or "alike." Used extensively in O.E. compounds, with a sense of “fellow, co-” (e.g. efeneald "of the same age;" M.E. even-sucker “foster-brother”). Of numbers, from 1550s. Modern adverbial sense (introducing an extreme case of something more generally implied) seems to have arisen 16c. from use of the word to emphasize identity ("Who, me?" "Even you," etc.) Sense of "on an equal footing" is from 1630s. Rhyming reduplication phrase even steven is attested from 1866; even break first recorded 1911. Even-tempered from 1875.
even (v.)
"to make level," O.E. efnan (see even (adj.)).
even (n.)
"end of the day," O.E. æfen, Mercian efen, Northumbrian efern (see eve).
http://www.etymonlin...x.php?term=even

----

eve
"evening," O.E. æfen, with pre-1200 loss of terminal -n (which was mistaken for an inflexion), from P.Gmc. *æbando- (cf. O.S. aband, O.Fris. ewnd, Du. avond, O.H.G. aband, Ger. Abend, O.N. aptann, Dan. aften), of uncertain origin. Now superseded in its original sense by evening (q.v.). Meaning "day before a saint's day or festival" is from late 13c.
Eve
fem. proper name, from Biblical first woman, Late Latin, from Heb. Hawwah, lit. "a living being," from base hawa "he lived" (cf. Arabic hayya, Aramaic hayyin).
Like most of the explanations of names in Genesis, this is probably based on folk etymology or an imaginative playing with sound. ... In the Hebrew here, the phonetic similarity is between hawah, "Eve," and the verbal root hayah, "to live." It has been proposed that Eve's name conceals very different origins, for it sounds suspiciously like the Aramaic word for "serpent." [Robert Alter, "The Five Books of Moses," 2004, commentary on Gen. iii.20]

http://www.etymonlin...ex.php?term=eve

The other meaning really corresponds to Eve's actions in the garden - she has to judge what is right and wrong - that is implanted inside her, in her breast - our own sense of judgement - is the meaning of Eve according to the OLB. So the OLB meaning seems to gel correctly with the Biblical meaning and also the 2nd meaning is true also.

What about ever? For ever and ever.

ever
O.E. æfre "ever, at any time, always;" no cognates in any other Germanic language; perhaps a contraction of a in feore, lit. "ever in life" (the expression a to fore is common in O.E. writings). First element is almost certainly related to O.E. a "always, ever," from P.Gmc. *aiwo, from PIE *aiw- "vital force, life, long life, eternity." (see eon). Liberman suggests second element is comparative adjectival suffix -re.

Comparable with this part, evening: even (n.)
"end of the day," O.E. æfen, Mercian efen, Northumbrian efern (see eve).

This word could possibly be ALPHA.

'Aleph is also the first letter of the Hebrew word emet, which means truth. In Jewish mythology it was the letter aleph that was carved into the head of the golem which ultimately gave it life.
http://en.wikipedia....i/Aleph_(letter)


I'd say this word is also what Io means and stands for. aiwo - Io

Edited by The Puzzler, 28 April 2011 - 02:47 PM.

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#4507    Abramelin

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Posted 28 April 2011 - 03:06 PM

Quote

The apple imo is the biggest symbol of them all - Nyhellenia has the apples, the bucket of apples, or basket, like the symbology of the Oseberg ship burial bucket of apples, a possible food to take to the underworld - a proper interpretation or same as pomegranite

Nehallenia had a basket with apples (and a dog, and her foot on a ship), Nyhellenia (OLB) had a basket with eggs....


.

Edited by Abramelin, 28 April 2011 - 03:07 PM.


#4508    The Puzzler

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Posted 28 April 2011 - 03:23 PM

aiwo - vital force. I think this word sounds relative to IOVI, (especially with the V sound from the Eve variation) this description of Zeus as Jupiter as used in the word JOVE -  An inscription from Capua[2] to IOVI VESVVIO indicates that he was worshipped as a power of Jupiter; that is, Jupiter Vesuvius.

http://en.wikipedia..../Mount_Vesuvius

Life force - OD ?? Maybe a connection.

Around Vesuvius we have this description:
The historian, Diodorus Siculus, relates a tradition that Hercules, in the performance of his labors, passed through the country of nearby Cumae on his way to Sicily and found there a place called "the Phlegraean Plain" (phlegraion pedion, "plain of fire"), "from a hill which anciently vomited out fire ... now called Vesuvius."[4] It was inhabited by bandits, "the sons of the Earth," who were giants.
http://en.wikipedia..../Mount_Vesuvius

Giants inhabited Vesuvius. Sons of the Earth.

----------------

I'll also throw out this and I know you'll love this one Abe.

Sheshonq is Cecrops.

Sheshonq is a Libyan Meshwesh who overtook the delta of Egypt and they installed the 22nd Dynasty into Egypt. The Liberators, but unseen as that in the old Sun cults of Egypt. I've been following this line for a while now. They are probably the Athenian liberators the Saites talk about in the Atlantis story.

The Meshwesh and the Libu were allies. Sheshonq was a Libyan liberator, he's probably Father Liber or something.

If we follow the line of Libyans having blue eyes and Cecrops is indeed described as an Egyptian with blue eyes in the OLB and in myth and he came to rule in Athens after they had no Kings for 200 years after a flood. This puts him smack in the right time frame to be Cecrops.

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#4509    The Puzzler

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Posted 28 April 2011 - 03:41 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 28 April 2011 - 03:06 PM, said:

Nehallenia had a basket with apples (and a dog, and her foot on a ship), Nyhellenia (OLB) had a basket with eggs....


.
That's true. I did write Ny when I should have written Na but the article was about Nahellenia so that's who I meant for now, my error of writing Ny rather than Na.

The apple - Paris chose Helen, who had been born from an egg - the apple really equalled the egg.

Aphrodite is like the serpent who tempts Paris (Eve), he eats it and that's his downfall.

Here's a crossover of eggs and apples:
The Norse at equinox celebrated the feast of the goddess Iduna, bearer of the magick apples of life, symbol of the light half of the year. We get the name of the holiday from the Germanic goddess Eastre or Oestara, whose symbolism is similar to Aphrodite's, whose associations include Near-Eastern Astarte and Indian Mother Kali and whose consort is the lusty Moon-Hare.

Now isn't this odd...?

On the day before the equinox, the Greeks and Romans honored wisdom goddess Athena and her counterpart Minerva
http://www.widdershi...vol4iss8/03.htm



Do you see it?

The Norse people celebrated the feast of Idunna and her magical apples, the EVE before that Greeks and Romans honoured Athena.
The whole thing is wrapped up in eggs but hides apples.

Nyhellenia probably originally had eggs but then it became a better alternative to put the apples because eggs became a bit 'pagan' with all the fertility stuff.

Apples came to represent spring and love in Northern Europe where before the apples came in, they more than likely used eggs for the same thing, hence we still have the eggs at Easter - very pagan but chocolate is very tempting...


-------------------

And I think evening is from being a calm time of the day. It's evin - even - calm, still, quiet.

Edited by The Puzzler, 28 April 2011 - 03:47 PM.

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#4510    The Puzzler

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Posted 28 April 2011 - 03:52 PM

OK.

As the modern English alphabet lacks the eth (š) character,Išunn is sometimes anglicized as Idun, Idunn or Ithun

Ithuna

I'd like to stay for more linguistics fun but need sleep.  :sleepy:

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#4511    Abramelin

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Posted 28 April 2011 - 05:26 PM

From 6 weeks ago:


View PostAbramelin, on 07 March 2011 - 06:48 PM, said:

I had something even better about the Alans, yesterday, but today the site refuses to load:

http://balder.prohos...issem/alans.jpg
http://balder.prohos...an_Origins.html

Maybe you use another browser, and you will be lucky finding it.

The Berber/Khabyli people of northern Africa use a letter - as tattoo, and also as symbol in their flag, and it is the most important letter of their alphabet - : it's a letter from their Tamazight alphabet: the letter yaz or aza:

Posted Image

Posted Image

And I talked about it here: http://www.unexplain...howtopic=183779 :

The Berber "Z" letter is the central character of the word Amazigh, though in Berber only the consonants M Z G are written; Amazigh means "free man". The Imazighen (plural of are the free men), and this is the way all Berber peoples refer to themselves.

I know from experience that many Berber (or Kabyle) people use that sign: its the AZA (letter -Z- or yaz) and stands for "free men". Lots of Moroccans of Berber descent live here in Holland, and many use that sign on T-shirts, as jewels and tattoos. They even make flags with that sign, lol !!

Google tamazight / tifinagh, and you will know.



It stands for "Freemen" (and no doubt you will remember how the ancient Frisians considered themselves... as FREE MEN). And - according to many people's interpretation of the OLB - they created settlements in northern Africa.

Now, that 'Balder' site explains the wanderings of the Alans all over Europe and into Northern Africa, and they carried one symbol along with them (I hope the JPG image loads for you)... this letter that is now part of the Amazight/Berber alphabet.

It is how someone would write the Yule symbol in cursive/Italic style.

Posted Image



ALANS
Alans, Alani, Alanliao, Aorses, As, Asii, Asses, Balanjar, Barsils, Belenjers, Burtas, Halans, Iass, Iazyg, Ishkuza, Ishtek, Jass, Lan, Ostyak, Ovs, Rhoxolani, Steppe Alans, Yass, Yancai and other variations
Subdivisions and ethnic affiliates
Alans, Burtas, Rhoxolani, Wusüns, Yasses, Yazygs
650 BC-1400 AD

650 BC
Ases are first mentioned in Assirian sources as the Scythian name Ishkuza = Ish-Oguz or Ish-kiji, with the same semantic, where Ish is a variation of ethnonym As, and Oguz or kiji stand for people

500 BC
Tribe of Aderbics, part of Masguts/Massagetae, sent 40 thousand infantrymen and 2 thousand horsemen to the camp of Darius the Great at the Babylon. It is evidence of the large nomadic population living on the banks of the Uzboy. Period from 7th c. BC to 5th c. AD was flourishing for Aral-Caspian area, combining settled agricultural and tribes specializing in sheep or horse animal husbandry. Symbiosis of farmers and nomads.

300 BC
From Chinese sources Alans are listed as one of four Hunnish tribes (Xu-la, Lan, Hiu-bu, Siu-lin) most favored by kings of Eastern Huns (Mao-dun/Mete and his son Ki-ok/Kök) of 3rd century B.C. (ToOD 146). Hiu-bu and Siu-lin are Ch. coding variations for Yui tribes, Uigurs; Lan stands for Alan = Tr. alan, yalan = steppe, synonymous with  Tr. yaziq = plain, plateau (Yazygs, Ases, Yases). Alt. name for Alans (probably, a W.Europe subtribe) is Gu-alan, Tr. quw alan = dry steppe; both names indicate part of clans living in steppe, while other part lives by river, mountain, forest etc. 1  

1066
Many Bretons of Alanic ancestry joined William The Conqueror in the conquest of Britain, contributing military tactics inherited from their forebears, and later spread their genetic influence across Britain into Scotland and elsewhere. One of the highest frequencies of R1b Haplotype 35 anywhere in the Y-STR database is among sample from Paris, France, adjacent to Normandy, and even more so, among Americans of ”Cajun” descent. ”Cajun” is actually a colloquial contraction of the word ”Acadian” (now Nova Scotia and New Brunswick, and portions of northern Maine). Majority of early French Canadian settlers of both Acadia and Quebec were of Norman or Breton origin. Many Scottish families who exhibit DYS393=12 marker are as likely to be descended from the Alans who arrived with the Normans, as from the Sarmatians who came with the Romans


http://s155239215.on...dateline_En.htm
http://www.allempire...7815&PID=626383


Yep, lego etymology is a nice game, hahaha!!



++++++++++++

EDIT:

According to the poem by Willem van Haren, the Alans, the people that lived in Frisia when Friso arrived there from India (Frisia was called "Land of the Alans" before it became "Frisia") originally came from the far east where they lived in arid regions:

"Verre Oostelyk van hier bewonend dorre streken"

http://www.dbnl.org/...a01_01_0023.php


.

Edited by Abramelin, 28 April 2011 - 06:10 PM.


#4512    Otharus

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 02:24 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 28 April 2011 - 01:41 PM, said:

Ask yourself why I am the one who did find many things (archeology), and not the rest of you?
Answer nr.2:
Too busy with other things, like:

View PostOtharus, on 24 April 2011 - 04:10 AM, said:

I would like to start discussing this article:

The Oera Linda Boek - A literary forgery and its paper
by A. Kardinaal, E. v.d. Grijn, H. Porck
published in: IPH Congress Book 16 (2006), p. 177-185

Abe and Alewyn have the PDF

(Still expecting your answer to this.)

and:

View PostOtharus, on 27 April 2011 - 11:53 AM, said:

Some additional notes on the Over de Linden family

For details see http://fryskednis.bl...-genealogy.html

Generation I ~ Jan Andries-son Over de Linden (ca.1718-1794)

These are the main issues I have been working on lately, the language exercises I do in between when I have some extra time.


#4513    The Puzzler

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 07:28 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 28 April 2011 - 02:10 PM, said:

OK, I can understand that you problems finding things because of a bad connection.

But you will have to agree with me that archeological proof will be a lot more convincing then etymology.

And I have actively sought after archeological proof, and I did find things that came close to something resembling proof.

.
And I will give you your Smiley stamp after playlunch.

Look Abe, we have all contributed massively here, in different ways and in a way, yes, archaeological proof would be fantastic, if we actually know what we are looking for firstly. I don't think it's overly way more important than finding out what the OLB ACTUALLY says and not what many interpretations have it say to correctly understand the whole story.

You expect to find a huge empire with this writing all over Europe but I do not interpret it that way. To me, it appears that from 2000BC they were made smaller and smaller until it was completely lost. So much would have been dug up and/or found in the last 2000 years that we don't even know about! For like 150 years we have studied archaeology properly. You have missed 2000 years worth of finds for a start. All the cities built over areas that will never be excavated or they are 6 feet underground. Amsterdam itself is 40 metres below sea level from what I read.

The archaeologists have no real idea. I read all this stuff, the amount of things unknown or unexplained is staggering, their guesses are what you are reading. The linguists make up words and call them proto-Indo-European.

And I'll say it again and again if I have to, the Church is EXTREMELY POWERFUL. I can just see it when the farmer takes him some items he dug up in his field c. 1200AD, here look Friar, I found a pagan goblet with some Latin style writing on it, I can just see the Friar running off to the head history recorder with it...yeah right. More like melt it down first, ask questions later, or never and better still, ask questions and you'll meet the whipping stick.

I just watched some of the mini series Pillars of the Earth, it's about the building of a huge cathedral in England in the time of Maud, (Matilda) and her Anarchy against her cousin to rule England through their ties to William the Conqueror. You have no idea maybe of the rule of the Church, it was extraordinary, I have no idea, I have to watch shows like this to understand the control they had in those times.

No, archaeology is not the be all and end all of this I'm afraid, the answer to the OLB is equally in unlocking it's secret language that will tell us who the Frisians really were and who everyone else is.

Edited by The Puzzler, 29 April 2011 - 07:31 AM.

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#4514    Abramelin

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 10:56 AM

View PostOtharus, on 29 April 2011 - 02:24 AM, said:

Answer nr.2:
Too busy with other things, like:



(Still expecting your answer to this.)

and:



These are the main issues I have been working on lately, the language exercises I do in between when I have some extra time.

Don't worry, I really did not forget about the PDF, but I am busy trying to find additional info (and not being very succesful at it).


#4515    Abramelin

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 11:11 AM

View PostThe Puzzler, on 29 April 2011 - 07:28 AM, said:

And I will give you your Smiley stamp after playlunch.

Look Abe, we have all contributed massively here, in different ways and in a way, yes, archaeological proof would be fantastic, if we actually know what we are looking for firstly. I don't think it's overly way more important than finding out what the OLB ACTUALLY says and not what many interpretations have it say to correctly understand the whole story.

You expect to find a huge empire with this writing all over Europe but I do not interpret it that way. To me, it appears that from 2000BC they were made smaller and smaller until it was completely lost. So much would have been dug up and/or found in the last 2000 years that we don't even know about! For like 150 years we have studied archaeology properly. You have missed 2000 years worth of finds for a start. All the cities built over areas that will never be excavated or they are 6 feet underground. Amsterdam itself is 40 metres below sea level from what I read.

The archaeologists have no real idea. I read all this stuff, the amount of things unknown or unexplained is staggering, their guesses are what you are reading. The linguists make up words and call them proto-Indo-European.

And I'll say it again and again if I have to, the Church is EXTREMELY POWERFUL. I can just see it when the farmer takes him some items he dug up in his field c. 1200AD, here look Friar, I found a pagan goblet with some Latin style writing on it, I can just see the Friar running off to the head history recorder with it...yeah right. More like melt it down first, ask questions later, or never and better still, ask questions and you'll meet the whipping stick.

I just watched some of the mini series Pillars of the Earth, it's about the building of a huge cathedral in England in the time of Maud, (Matilda) and her Anarchy against her cousin to rule England through their ties to William the Conqueror. You have no idea maybe of the rule of the Church, it was extraordinary, I have no idea, I have to watch shows like this to understand the control they had in those times.

No, archaeology is not the be all and end all of this I'm afraid, the answer to the OLB is equally in unlocking it's secret language that will tell us who the Frisians really were and who everyone else is.

Puzz, if they find ONE other manuscript written in OLB script, or an inscription on stone with that script, you will know as I do that this endless discussion will turn a 180 degrees.

Same thing if the dating of the OLB had resulted in a date of the 13th century; all the socalled 'suspects' (Haverschmidt, Verwijs, Over de Linden, Halbertsma) would have dropped from the discussion.

And the same thing if they find the remnants of one of the many Fryan citadels, citadels which have been described in great detail in the OLB.

I know about the power of the Church, and I know they did their best to irradicate every trace of the Aztec civilization, but as we know, they failed. And we know from history the Christian monks have done their best to burn any ancient Aztec manuscript, kill those who kept following the 'ancient ways' and convert others to the Christian belief.

And of course those who stole anything left of that culture, or melted any silver and golden artifact they could lay their hands on, but still.. they (archeologists) find artifacts up to this day.