Jump to content




Welcome to Unexplained Mysteries! Please sign in or create an account to start posting and to access a host of extra features.


* * * - - 5 votes

[Archived]Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood


This topic has been archived. This means that you cannot reply to this topic.
11638 replies to this topic

#4681    The Puzzler

The Puzzler

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 10,617 posts
  • Joined:23 Feb 2007

Posted 05 May 2011 - 03:15 PM

Talking of the Middle Sea - now this seems to make more sense as I've gone along...

In Modern Hebrew, it has been called HaYyam HaTtikhon (הַיָּם הַתִּיכוֹן), "the middle sea", a literal adaptation of the German equivalent Mittelmeer
http://en.wikipedia....diterranean_Sea

The modern Hebrew language has the Mediterranean Sea as the Middle Sea, this to me is relevant that their language taken taken from a possible older one that also called the Mediterranean Sea the Middle Sea. Just like daleth is found in Phoeniciana and Canaanite, which I certainly think is what A.DEL.A's name is referring to, as I mentioned, the deliverer of the freedom message.

In an mmm bop it's gone...

#4682    The Puzzler

The Puzzler

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 10,617 posts
  • Joined:23 Feb 2007

Posted 05 May 2011 - 03:31 PM

The megaliths, even though not directly mentioned in the OLB -

By the gravestone of which mention has already been made her body is buried. Upon the stone the following words are inscribed:

TREAD SOFTLY, FOR HERE LIES ADELA.


Could the adaptation of a stone grave STONE as a marker for a grave be what the megalithic graves were originally - gravestones, we now just have smaller versions of them, possibly because men became less strong or they just downgraded to smaller stones for ease.

The mention of Adela having a gravestone imo could validate that they were the megalithic grave creators, especially since over 77 are on those Frisians Islands. I actually found that part you asked Alewyn to link to in the Wadden Sea pdf, remember the clay and peat could be organic matter and logs etc mentioned in the OLB.

What it shows regardless, is that at 2200BC water did inundate the Frisian Islands to the land and people had been there successfully living a megalithic culture in the past. We do not know how it affected the land exactly but it obviously made an impact to cover previously inhabited areas. What you need to see is a huge calamity but to people in the centre of a small one, it can appear to be monumental.

If the Phlegraean Plains was in turmoil, this to me would spread the tectonic activity to other parts of the European plate since it was a time of activity, so a whole range of areas would feel effects at the same time. Tsunamis most likely did happen from it and may have even hit Western Greece.

In an mmm bop it's gone...

#4683    Abramelin

Abramelin

    -

  • Member
  • 18,109 posts
  • Joined:07 May 2005

Posted 05 May 2011 - 03:51 PM

View PostThe Puzzler, on 05 May 2011 - 03:15 PM, said:

Talking of the Middle Sea - now this seems to make more sense as I've gone along...

In Modern Hebrew, it has been called HaYyam HaTtikhon (הַיָּם הַתִּיכוֹן), "the middle sea", a literal adaptation of the German equivalent Mittelmeer
http://en.wikipedia....diterranean_Sea

The modern Hebrew language has the Mediterranean Sea as the Middle Sea, this to me is relevant that their language taken taken from a possible older one that also called the Mediterranean Sea the Middle Sea. Just like daleth is found in Phoeniciana and Canaanite, which I certainly think is what A.DEL.A's name is referring to, as I mentioned, the deliverer of the freedom message.

They adopted that name from German medieval sources (in Latin).


#4684    Abramelin

Abramelin

    -

  • Member
  • 18,109 posts
  • Joined:07 May 2005

Posted 05 May 2011 - 03:54 PM

View PostThe Puzzler, on 05 May 2011 - 03:31 PM, said:

If the Phlegraean Plains was in turmoil, this to me would spread the tectonic activity to other parts of the European plate since it was a time of activity, so a whole range of areas would feel effects at the same time. Tsunamis most likely did happen from it and may have even hit Western Greece.

But did it cause turmoil in the North Sea area? In the form of floods and tsunamis? I don't think so.

Like I said - maybe Cormac wants to drop in an have his say about it - the 2200 BC eruption wasn't any way near as catastrophic as the later Mt. Thera eruption.


#4685    The Puzzler

The Puzzler

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 10,617 posts
  • Joined:23 Feb 2007

Posted 05 May 2011 - 04:03 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 05 May 2011 - 03:54 PM, said:

But did it cause turmoil in the North Sea area? In the form of floods and tsunamis? I don't think so.

Like I said - maybe Cormac wants to drop in an have his say about it - the 2200 BC eruption wasn't any way near as catastrophic as the later Mt. Thera eruption.
No, I don't believe the effects probably did directly affect the North Sea but instead at the same time it had it's own effects, froma variety of things, yes, some tectonic movement that was throught the whole plate since it was active in one area, so it may have been a whole connection but I don't say the eruptions would have been directly responsible.

The 4.2 ky event and changes in sea level, weather changes etc, with tectonic activity, a possible severe flood in China, which is what I actually think might be the Atland flood mention is - but also the mention of conflagration in the Med. is what I conclude would be the effects of this eruption of gases and lava bursts. If it can be termed the Titonomachy and Clash of the Gods it certainly had some sort of impact.

The eruption of Thera imo would have been actually rather mild anywhere else but Thera and actually Vesuvius erupted much the same time as Thera so another point of conflagration around 1500BC in 2 areas - it could be Vesuvius caused way more destruction. We know now Crete barely copped a whisper of a tsunami and the eruption probably did not cause the downfall of Minoan Crete or anything.

The timeframe of the Phlegraean Plain c. 2200BC gaseous eruptions of fire would have caused major damage to the surrounds and is constant with the timeframe of the first Atland conflagration (occurring in Asia) with this being the destruction in the Med.

In an mmm bop it's gone...

#4686    Abramelin

Abramelin

    -

  • Member
  • 18,109 posts
  • Joined:07 May 2005

Posted 05 May 2011 - 04:07 PM

View PostThe Puzzler, on 05 May 2011 - 04:03 PM, said:

No, I don't believe the effects probably did directly affect the North Sea but instead at the same time it had it's own effects, froma variety of things, yes, some tectonic movement that was throught the whole plate since it was active in one area, so it may have been a whole connection but I don't say the eruptions would have been directly responsible.

The 4.2 ky event and changes in sea level, weather changes etc, with tectonic activity, a possible severe flood in China, which is what I actually think might be the Atland flood mention is - but also the mention of conflagration in the Med. is what I conclude would be the effects of this eruption of gases and lava bursts. If it can be termed the Titonomachy and Clash of the Gods it certainly had some sort of impact.

The eruption of Thera imo would have been actually rather mild anywhere else but Thera and actually Vesuvius erupted much the same time as Thera so another point of conflagration around 1500BC in 2 areas - it could be Vesuvius caused way more destruction. We know now Crete barely copped a whisper of a tsunami and the eruption probably did not cause the downfall of Minoan Crete or anything.

The timeframe of the Phlegraean Plain c. 2200BC gaseous eruptions of fire would have caused major damage to the surrounds and is constant with the timeframe of the first Atland conflagration (occurring in Asia) with this being the destruction in the Med.

If you can prove with scientific facts that this eruption of Campi Flegrei caused tectonic plates to move and subsequently create heavy earthquakes and tsunamis in the European area, then you will have a point.

And I hope you don't say something like science is not aware of this and so on. Without science you would not have known of any eruption around 2200 BC.

.

Edited by Abramelin, 05 May 2011 - 04:09 PM.


#4687    The Puzzler

The Puzzler

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 10,617 posts
  • Joined:23 Feb 2007

Posted 05 May 2011 - 04:23 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 05 May 2011 - 04:07 PM, said:

If you can prove with scientific facts that this eruption of Campi Flegrei caused tectonic plates to move and subsequently create heavy earthquakes and tsunamis in the European area, then you will have a point.

And I hope you don't say something like science is not aware of this and so on. Without science you would not have known of any eruption around 2200 BC.

.
No, I wouldn't do that, unless I felt logical about it, as I did with evidence being already found we didn't actually know about, stuff like that, when there's holes...

OK, leave it with me, point being, it really doesn't matter if it did or didn't - it's been described as the Titanomachy, I know you are sick of me saying it already but the implications of the description can actually relate to a complete and absolute change, with man and with the environment in the world in every way - as the Titans left and man took over.

I will add too, the cycles of this areas eruptions would have created fertile soil and the whole Hephaestus + Gaia thing to the Athenians then seems to fit the pattern I said before - volcano + earth = fertility

Combined with an impact by Kaali and I've showed the sign plenty of times that says around 4000 years old.

You have everything - the Flood in the East and the men coming in from that direction in many stories, both Bible and OLB, the conflagrations on this Italian plain, which went down in myth as the T., the loss of the culture of people and the beginning of only memory strands and old oral tales being compiled again, into a corpus of myths, finally put on paper when writing came around again c. 750BC in Greece.

Bed for me, if my brain can stop buzzing on high speed.  :wacko:

In an mmm bop it's gone...

#4688    cormac mac airt

cormac mac airt

    Telekinetic

  • Member
  • 7,551 posts
  • Joined:18 Jun 2008

Posted 05 May 2011 - 04:35 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 05 May 2011 - 03:54 PM, said:

But did it cause turmoil in the North Sea area? In the form of floods and tsunamis? I don't think so.

Like I said - maybe Cormac wants to drop in an have his say about it - the 2200 BC eruption wasn't any way near as catastrophic as the later Mt. Thera eruption.

No, Abramelin, it wouldn't have been anywhere near as catastrophic. The eruption c.2150 +/- 50 of Campi Flegrei, a Volcanic Explosivity Index (VEI) 5 scale event comes nowhere close the Thera's VEI 7 scale eruption. It would be like comparing one persons low burp to another persons projectile vomiting.  :w00t:

cormac

The city and citizens, which you yesterday described to us in fiction, we will now transfer to the world of reality. It shall be the ancient city of Athens, and we will suppose that the citizens whom you imagined, were our veritable ancestors, of whom the priest spoke; they will perfectly harmonise, and there will be no inconsistency in saying that the citizens of your republic are these ancient Athenians. --  Plato's Timaeus

#4689    Alewyn

Alewyn

    Remote Viewer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 537 posts
  • Joined:26 Jun 2010

Posted 05 May 2011 - 04:46 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 05 May 2011 - 04:07 PM, said:

If you can prove with scientific facts that this eruption of Campi Flegrei caused tectonic plates to move and subsequently create heavy earthquakes and tsunamis in the European area, then you will have a point.

And I hope you don't say something like science is not aware of this and so on. Without science you would not have known of any eruption around 2200 BC.

.
Abe, nobody said that Campi Flegrei caused tectonic plates to move. You brought up Campi Flegrei. In fact, I would like to suggest that it is highly unlikely that any single volcanic eruption could cause the plates to move. Just the opposite is likely, i.e. plate movements would cause volcanoes to erupt.

The point I tried to make in post 4653 is that the date of 2200 BC keeps on cropping up - from the demise of civilizations in the Northern hemisphere, to tsunamis all over the world. Now we hear of floods in China. Ancient scribes such as Ipuwer, the Curse of Akkad, etc. etc all talk of meteorite activites, or earthquakes or floods, famine, droughts, etc. Archaeologists picked up an increase in the salt content of the ground in Iraq and North Africa. How can we just ignore this?

I agree that a single piece of evidence does not prove anything but, in #4653 I gave 20 examples and I can assure you there are many more.

Untill we understand what happened in ca 2200 BC, all pre-history will remain guesswork.

I do not claim to be the first to raise the possibility of a world-wide disaster in 2200 BC. What I do sense in this debate, however, is that nobody even want to consider the possibility. To me it seems that the consensus is that nothing major, apart from a drought, happened in 2200 BC. How do we then explain Harvey Weiss' 3 foot layer of silt in Iraq?

Just tell me out straight that my idea is absurd and without any credibility and we can then leave it at that.


#4690    Leonardo

Leonardo

    Awake

  • Member
  • 15,344 posts
  • Joined:20 Oct 2006

Posted 05 May 2011 - 05:06 PM

View PostAlewyn, on 05 May 2011 - 04:46 PM, said:

I do not claim to be the first to raise the possibility of a world-wide disaster in 2200 BC. What I do sense in this debate, however, is that nobody even want to consider the possibility. To me it seems that the consensus is that nothing major, apart from a drought, happened in 2200 BC. How do we then explain Harvey Weiss' 3 foot layer of silt in Iraq?

Just tell me out straight that my idea is absurd and without any credibility and we can then leave it at that.

Alewyn,

As I stated previously, our planet is very active. Around the time you speak of, give or take a century or two, there were undoubtedly some localised catastrophes - a flood, volcanic eruption, maybe even an impactor. Because early communities tended to arise near water, or on fertile land such as found near volcanoes, and these early communities were not only relatively small, but quite fragile when compared to today's communities, local events which might cause some hardship today were fatal to them.

However, the only event around that time that we know of which had a global, or near-global effect was climactic - the drying of the Sahel.

In the book of life, the answers aren't in the back. - Charlie Brown

"It is a profound and necessary truth that the deep things in science are not found because they are useful; they are found because it was possible to find them."  - J. Robert Oppenheimer; Scientific Director; The Manhattan Project

"talking bull**** is not a victimless crime" - Marina Hyde, author.

#4691    cormac mac airt

cormac mac airt

    Telekinetic

  • Member
  • 7,551 posts
  • Joined:18 Jun 2008

Posted 05 May 2011 - 05:33 PM

Quote

To me it seems that the consensus is that nothing major, apart from a drought, happened in 2200 BC.

If you weren't so stuck pinning everything on that one date, you might actually get somewhere IMO.

Events contemporary or nearly so to the 2200 BC date:

Mt. Etna eruption...............2330 +/- 100 BC

Mt. Vesuviius eruption..........2420 +/- 40 BC

Hekla, Iceland eruption........2310 +/- 20 BC

Campi Flegrei eruption.........2150 +/- 50 BC

Drought associated with Nile... c.2160 BC - 2130 BC and 2020 BC - 2010 BC

Quote

Historical records show that the Old Kingdom in Egypt continued successfully
until 2160 B.C. (4160 cal yr B.P.; Kitchen, 1991) when it quite suddenly collapsed into
anarchy (Bell, 1971). It has been suggested that this was due, in large part, to catastrophic
failure of the annual Nile flood for a period of 30 years. This was apparently
followed by a second, shorter 10-year period of drought starting in 2020 B.C. (4020
cal yr B.P.). At this time, it was written in the inscription of Ankhtifi that:
All of Upper Egypt was dying of hunger, to such a degree that everyone had come to eating
his children. . . .The entire country had become like a starved (?) grasshopper, with people
going to the north and to the south (in search of grain) . . . ( Bell, 1971, p. 9)

Source:

Short Contribution: Nile Flow Failure at the End of the Old Kingdom, Egypt: Strontium Isotopic and Petrologic Evidence (2003)

Jean-Daniel Stanley,1,* Michael D. Krom,2 Robert A. Cliff,2 and Jamie C. Woodward3

1Geoarchaeology-Global Change Program, E-206 NMNH, Smithsonian
Institution, Washington, DC 20560
2School of Earth Sciences, University of Leeds, Leeds LS2 9JT, United Kingdom
3School of Geography, University of Leeds, Leeds LS2 9JT, United Kingdom

The last would suggest that the Sahara desert was encroaching upon the Nile, particularly the White Nile, from the south prior to these droughts. I fail to see where a singular cause that can be pinned down to a specific point in time, your 2200 BC, is even remotely evidenced.

cormac

The city and citizens, which you yesterday described to us in fiction, we will now transfer to the world of reality. It shall be the ancient city of Athens, and we will suppose that the citizens whom you imagined, were our veritable ancestors, of whom the priest spoke; they will perfectly harmonise, and there will be no inconsistency in saying that the citizens of your republic are these ancient Athenians. --  Plato's Timaeus

#4692    Abramelin

Abramelin

    -

  • Member
  • 18,109 posts
  • Joined:07 May 2005

Posted 05 May 2011 - 06:19 PM

Alewyn said: "Just tell me out straight that my idea is absurd and without any credibility and we can then leave it at that."

Your idea about what could have happened is not absurd.

I do not even think the OLB is absurd (the events described in it, that is).

The point is: is there scientific proof it all happened as the OLB describes, that it all happened IN EUROPE 2200 BC (and in 3 years time).

Like Leonardo already said before, the earth is an active place.

Just remember what happend in the past decade; but what happened was spread out over the entire globe.

.

Edited by Abramelin, 05 May 2011 - 06:25 PM.


#4693    The Puzzler

The Puzzler

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 10,617 posts
  • Joined:23 Feb 2007

Posted 06 May 2011 - 12:13 AM

View Postcormac mac airt, on 05 May 2011 - 04:35 PM, said:

No, Abramelin, it wouldn't have been anywhere near as catastrophic. The eruption c.2150 +/- 50 of Campi Flegrei, a Volcanic Explosivity Index (VEI) 5 scale event comes nowhere close the Thera's VEI 7 scale eruption. It would be like comparing one persons low burp to another persons projectile vomiting.  :w00t:

cormac
Yes, but a smaller volcanic upheaval and this is not like an eruption from a large volcano these are lava, gas explosions that create holes from exploding bubbles of hydrothermal gas and pressure - in a populated area can do way more damage and leave much more impact that one on an island like Thera.

I don't hear Thera being called the Titanomachy.

The people were gone from Thera before the actual eruption.

In an mmm bop it's gone...

#4694    The Puzzler

The Puzzler

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 10,617 posts
  • Joined:23 Feb 2007

Posted 06 May 2011 - 12:25 AM

View Postcormac mac airt, on 05 May 2011 - 05:33 PM, said:

If you weren't so stuck pinning everything on that one date, you might actually get somewhere IMO.

Events contemporary or nearly so to the 2200 BC date:

Mt. Etna eruption...............2330 +/- 100 BC

Mt. Vesuviius eruption..........2420 +/- 40 BC

Hekla, Iceland eruption........2310 +/- 20 BC

Campi Flegrei eruption.........2150 +/- 50 BC

Drought associated with Nile... c.2160 BC - 2130 BC and 2020 BC - 2010 BC



Source:

Short Contribution: Nile Flow Failure at the End of the Old Kingdom, Egypt: Strontium Isotopic and Petrologic Evidence (2003)

Jean-Daniel Stanley,1,* Michael D. Krom,2 Robert A. Cliff,2 and Jamie C. Woodward3

1Geoarchaeology-Global Change Program, E-206 NMNH, Smithsonian
Institution, Washington, DC 20560
2School of Earth Sciences, University of Leeds, Leeds LS2 9JT, United Kingdom
3School of Geography, University of Leeds, Leeds LS2 9JT, United Kingdom

The last would suggest that the Sahara desert was encroaching upon the Nile, particularly the White Nile, from the south prior to these droughts. I fail to see where a singular cause that can be pinned down to a specific point in time, your 2200 BC, is even remotely evidenced.

cormac

All those above events could have been part of this big picture, yes.

What you say about the desert is also imo connective to the drying out of the Sahara but also what this means to Egypt in the way of what they had bought in from the wetter oasis of the Sahara and not only that but what appears to be contact between Egypt and the Italian peninsula prior to 2200BC, what did it leave Egypt without could be an interesting question..?

Also, if they left the Italian peninsula in this large conflagration of Phlegrea of c. 2200BC and arrived in Libya or Egypt (as the Argive myth might have it) it may have had an impact on the economy or structure of the societies. The myth again seems to indicate that the influence of Io bought in the Apis cult, which in itself became huge, so it really shouldn't be overlooked at what came into Egypt or was a loss to Egypt from this event either.

In an mmm bop it's gone...

#4695    The Puzzler

The Puzzler

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 10,617 posts
  • Joined:23 Feb 2007

Posted 06 May 2011 - 12:32 AM

I'm about to read this if anyone else wants to, I think it might have some really good info - it's a 16 page book pdf file..Volcanic Landscapes in Disaster Mythology.

http://issuu.com/ala...aster_mythology

In an mmm bop it's gone...