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[Archived]Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood


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#4876    Abramelin

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Posted 14 May 2011 - 04:04 PM

Hi Jim, that is nice, I found this yesterday:

It's the Pax Christi symbol, said the have been composed/seen by Emperor Constantine (a merging of the Greek letters chi and rho):

Posted Image
monogram Chi-Rho
According to Sir Flinders Petrie - the Egyptologist - the monogram Chi-Rho was the emblem of the Egyptian God, Horus, thousands of years before Christ and is therefore a link between Horus the savior, and Christ the savior. I had already noted on several occasions the links between these ancient characters and so this was highly believable and conclusive.


And also notice the alpha and omega signs.. the beginning and end...  of the Yule wheel??

http://www.nissaba.n...opic.php?t=1022

Another 'christian' influence in the OLB??

++++++++

EDIT:

From the OLB:

"What appears at the top is the signs of the Juul—that is, the first symbol of Wr-alda, also of the origin or beginning from which Time is derived; this is the Kroder, which must always go round with the Juul."

http://oeralinda.angelfire.com/

Well, what is that 'kroder' thing... it is a wheelbarrow : http://kroder-krooder.hyves.nl/ (or the one using it, a "kruier"/"krooier" in Dutch)

Posted Image

Now look again at the chi-rho symbol again, and look at the top.

Nice 'kroder', eh??

.
.

Edited by Abramelin, 14 May 2011 - 04:27 PM.


#4877    Abramelin

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Posted 14 May 2011 - 05:12 PM

And how about an ancient European civilization??

Well, lo and behold, there was one... and really ancient indeed.

I never heard of it, and found some articles about this quite recent discovery online.

I have repeatedly said that a find of some circular structure with longhouses (preferrably made of brick, like the OLB tells us) would be a nice thing...

Here it is (and sorry for all the copy and paste, but online newspapers tend to save the news in some archive, and your link will become dead as a dodo):



Archaeologists Excavating Europe’s Oldest Civilization
Archaeologists are working to unearth what is believed to be the oldest civilization in Europe, built almost 7,000 years ago.

By Linda Orlando

For the last several years, archaeologists have been steadily working to excavate a network of dozens of temples that are believed to be older than the pyramids in Egypt, and even older than Stonehenge. More than 150 gigantic monuments have already been identified and unearthed beneath fields and cities in Austria, Germany, and Slovakia. The temples are built from wood and earth and are surrounded by fences and ramparts that extend for thousands of feet. The fortifications and buildings, built between 4800BC and 4600BC, are believed to have been constructed by a civilization based on farming and agriculture. The people were obviously religious, based on the number of temples discovered, and the lived in communal longhouses grouped around large village areas, each surrounding a central temple. The people raised large herds of cattle, sheep, goats, pigs, and fashioned tools out of stone, wood, and bones. They also fabricated small ceramic statues of humans and animals, as well as large amounts of geometrically decorated pottery. The established community seems to have died out after about 200 years. The discovery is so new, and the excavations are so preliminary, that this culture has not even been given a name yet.

Archaeologists and historians have traditionally believed that the design and building of large architecture began after the Mesopotamian and Egyptian civilizations, but because of the discovery of these Stone Age temples, the study of prehistoric Europe has been turned upside down. Researchers believe that hundreds of these religious civilizations were constructed across a huge belt of land across Europe, and because of the breadth of this find, archaeologists are beginning to re-evaluate similar finds in central Europe that have been mostly undated. The most complex of these compounds excavated so far lies beneath the center of the city of Dresden, and consists of what appears to be a sacred internal area surrounded by two palisades, surrounded by three earthen banks and four networks of ditches. Another village complex and temple found near Leipzig contained over 200 longhouses, which indicates that the population of that complex would have been up to 300 people with a settlement containing up to 20 large communal buildings.

These heavily fortified monuments discovered so far seem to be the result of competition among the emerging Neolithic tribal groups that grew out of the establishment of farming cultures in the center of Europe. It is believed that these early Neolithic monument-building societies lasted less than 200 years and then died out, but the exact reason the culture collapsed is not known. However, it could have been due to the loss of either the ability to build monuments of this size or the need to build them in the first place. The next era of history known to contain monuments of this scale did not occur until the Middle Bronze Age, 3,000 years later. So far the investigation into these massive temples suggests that each was ritually decommissioned, with the ditches surrounding the central complex being deliberately filled in.

As archaeologists have worked to excavate these Stone Age temples, they have also unearthed several other intriguing mysteries. Each complex was used for only a few generations, and the central sacred area was always almost exactly the same size. And each circular ditch enclosing a compound required the removal of the exact same volume of earth, no matter what the diameter of the circle was. They reduced the depth and/or width of each ditch compared to the diameter of the circle, so that the volume of dirt removed was always the same for each circle. Archaeologists speculate that this was done so that the work required to dig each ditch would be the same no matter what the circumference of the ditch was. The culture may have required that each ditch be dug in the same number of days, perhaps to satisfy the requirements of some sort of religious calendar or ritual. The multiple ditches and palisades surrounding each complex do not appear to have been built for defensive purposes, but rather were probably designed to keep the ordinary citizens from being able to view the sacred rituals taking place inside the inner sanctum of the complex.

The Saxony state government's Heritage Department has been directing the archaeological investigations taking place in Dresden. According to the senior archaeologist in charge of the project, Harald Staeuble, "Our excavations have revealed the degree of monumental vision and sophistication used by these early farming communities to create Europe's first truly large scale earthwork complexes."


http://www.buzzle.co...-2005-72654.asp


============

Europe's oldest known civilization discovered.
June 11, 2005 8:41 PM  

Europe's oldest known civilization discovered. Archaeologists have discovered an ancient civilization of temple builders that existed in central Europe between 4800BC and 4600BC -- over 2000 years before Egypt. They constructed over 150 geometrically, astronomically, and spiritually aligned temples (translated) out of earth and wood, that had diameters of up to a half a mile. They were built by a people who lived in villages centered around communal longhouses of up to 150 feet in length. Their civilization raised large herds of animals, gathered grain with primitive sickles, made tools out of of stone, bone, and wood, manufactured pottery decorated with geometric designs (.pdf), and created small clay figurines of humans and animals. Only one male figurine has been found so far (.pdf) -- the rest have been of women with large breasts -- fertility symbols -- which suggests a fertility-based spirituality, and possibly a matriarchal society.

http://www.metafilte...tion-discovered





"Our excavations have revealed the degree of monumental vision and sophistication used by these early farming communities to create Europe's first truly large scale earthwork complexes," said the senior archaeologist, Harald Staeuble of the Saxony state government's heritage department, who has been directing the archaeological investigations. Scientific investigations into the recently excavated material are taking place in Dresden.


The people who built the huge circular temples were the descendants of migrants who arrived many centuries earlier from the Danube plain in what is now northern Serbia and Hungary. The temple-builders were pastoralists, controlling large herds of cattle, sheep and goats as well as pigs. They made tools of stone, bone and wood, and small ceramic statues of humans and animals. They manufactured substantial amounts of geometrically decorated pottery, and they lived in large longhouses in substantial villages.



One village complex and temple at Aythra, near Leipzig, covers an area of 25 hectares. Two hundred longhouses have been found there. The population would have been up to 300 people living in a highly organised settlement of 15 to 20 very large communal buildings


http://www.archaeolo...s/2005-6-14.htm


9 April 2011

7,500-year-old settlement unearthed in Germany
Archaeologists say they have discovered Saxony's oldest settlement while digging in a farmer's field in the eastern German state. Archaeologist Harald Staeuble said the three houses are around 7,500-year-old and are about 200 years older than any previous examples in the region. Their foundations were found in Salbitz, near the city of Leipzig. He said the houses would have been about 540 sq. feet to 860 sq. feet (50 to 80 sq. meters) large, housing families of up to 15 people. Staeuble said archaeologists were led to the spot in 2009 when a local researcher found pieces of ancient ceramics in the field with markings known to be from the Neolithic. The dig started three weeks ago and will be finished next week.

Edited from Associated Press, The Canadian Press (8 April 2011)





German archaeologists find houses under 7.500 year old farmers field in Saxony    
April, 08 2011  

The Canadian Press

Saxony's oldest houses Archaeologists say they have discovered while digging in a farmer's field in the eastern German state.

Archaeologist Harald Staeuble said Friday the three houses are around 7,500-year-old - about 200 years older than any previous examples in the region. Archaeologist Harald Staeuble said Friday the three houses are around 7.500-year-old - about 200 years older than any previous examples in the region. Their foundations were found in Salbitz, near the city of Leipzig. Foundations were found in their Salbitz, near the city of Leipzig.

He said the houses would have been about 540 sq. feet to 860 sq.(50 to 80 sq. meters) large, housing families of up to 15 people. Staeuble said archaeologists were led to the spot in 2009 when a local researcher found pieces of ancient ceramics in the field with markings known to be from the Neolithic Age.  The dig started three weeks ago and will be finished next week.

http://www.archaeolo...-in-Saxony.html

http://www.stonepage...ves/004305.html




And were there longhouses of the same age in The Netherlands? yes there were (and I have posted about these Dutch longhouses before):

29 August, 2009
33. Elsloo 32, a Neolithic longhouse made from trees

Posted Image

http://structuralarc...house-made.html

+++

Alas, no bricks.


.

Edited by Abramelin, 14 May 2011 - 05:33 PM.


#4878    Abramelin

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Posted 14 May 2011 - 06:11 PM

And now, who is not being serious here, Alewyn?

You researched to write your book, and after that you must have assumed you had covered it all and quit looking further.

Well, you should have, and I have some other surprizes for you in store.


.

Edited by Abramelin, 14 May 2011 - 06:14 PM.


#4879    Abramelin

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Posted 14 May 2011 - 06:30 PM

I have been searching for info on the Dunkirk I Transgression, and many sites mention 300 BC.

Tijdens de 4de eeuw voor Christus begint de Duinkerke I transgressie die met woeste overstromingen een groot deel van de oude duinen opruimt,

http://www.pervijze....esch/ges02.html

In English:
During the 4th century before Christ the Dunkirk I Transgression starts and destroyed a large part of the old dunes with ferocious floods.


--

You will find lots of references (in Dutch) about that first Dunkirk Transgression.

But I must tell you: scientists have left that Dunkirk Transgression theory because it appeared to be faulty.


--

OK, so I came upon a site about the history of West Friesland, Otharus' home.

I won't bother you with that, but here is something you should read:

Climate change and the expansion of the Scythian culture after 850 BC: a hypothesis

(2004) Geel, B. van; Bokovenko, N.A.; Burova, N.D.; Chugunov, K.V.; Dergachev, V.A.; Dirksen, V.G.; Kulkova, M.; Nagler, A.; Parzinger, H.; Plicht, J. van der; Vasiliev, S.S.; Zaitseva, G.I.


In south-central Siberia archaeological evidence suggests an acceleration of cultural development and an increase in the density of nomadic populations around 850 BC. We hypothesize a relationship with an abrupt climatic shift towards increased humidity caused by a decline of solar activity. Areas that initially may have been hostile semi-deserts changed into attractive steppe landscapes with a high biomass production and high carrying capacity. Newly available steppe areas could be invaded by herbivores, making them attractive for nomadic tribes. The central Asian horse-riding Scythian culture expanded, and an increased population density was a stimulus for westward migration towards southeastern Europe.


http://cio.eldoc.ub....llItemRecord=ON
http://cio.eldoc.ub....eolScivGeel.pdf

850 BC... and nothing about that in the OLB.

And if you really do know how to Google, then you will know that this 850 BC event/period is really important, worldwide.

Do we read about that in the OLB?

NO.


+++++

"A decline in solar activity"., did you read that?

That's something else than your "tilt of the earth's axis" by a bolide hitting the earth, creating the Burckle Crater?

Not even the Chicxulub impact did much to the earth's tilt.






.

Edited by Abramelin, 14 May 2011 - 06:51 PM.


#4880    Abramelin

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Posted 14 May 2011 - 07:21 PM

The more I think of it, the more I get convinced that those who are considered to be the main 'suspects' of creating the OLB, priests, pastors and preachers, or whatever you want to call them, loved to slip in hints to the Bible, and twist it to suit a great Frisian history.

It was quite a habit in the past, claim ancestry to the great ancient Greeks, Troyans, Persians, or the Biblical Jews.

We have a date for the Flood, we have a Jessos/Jesus, we have a Yule Wheel possibly borrowed from the chi-rho sign, we have a monotheistic religion, Wralda/Jehova.

These guys wanted to twist Biblical/ancient history into some great Frisian version, just to promote themselves as the one and only true great ancient civilization that controlled the civilized word and taught their 'great philosophy' about Wralda = Jehova.

++

EDIT:

The next thing I am going to find out is whether Joost Halbertsma had a crush on some Russian woman, Helena Blavatsky.

:lol:

Edited by Abramelin, 14 May 2011 - 07:39 PM.


#4881    The Puzzler

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Posted 15 May 2011 - 05:36 AM

Abe, nice find I must say.

Also this one too should yield some very interesting results.

The graves are located just outside the city of Oechlitz, on the railroad track connecting the major eastern city of Leipzig with its neighbor to the southwest, Erfurt.
They were first discovered after construction had begun on an ICE express train line. Scientists have ascertained that a number of skeletons are from the Bronze Age, as the corpses were stacked on top of one another, suggesting that they were buried in what is known as a "layered grave."

Archaeologists discovered a cluster of eight graves that included a woman interred in a sitting position. Scientists are hoping to find clues about why she was buried in such an unusual position through testing on the skeletons.

The scientists have been at work at the site, which is known as the "Querfurter ledge," for over a year. It is an extraordinarily fertile area situated between the Saale and Unstrut rivers, encompassing approximately 100 hectares (247 acres).

At present, around three quarters of the area has been excavated, which has produced around 55,000 different archaeological finds. Utensils, amber and copper jewelry, and weapons from varying epochs have been uncovered at the site.

Scientists believe humans have been settled on the Querfurter ledge for at least 7,500 years.

The digs will continue at the site until the middle of next year. Researchers are aiming to have the finds ready for documentation by 2011.

http://www.archaeolo...rn-Germany.html

So much still to be found, the OLB may not even be shown to be truth in our lifetime but eventually imo they will find that Europeans actually had a place in the ancient history of the world.

In an mmm bop it's gone...

#4882    cerberusxp

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Posted 15 May 2011 - 06:15 AM

View PostAlewyn, on 26 June 2010 - 07:06 AM, said:

Many, but not all, are convinced beyond any shadow of a doubt that the Oera Linda Book is a hoax. Nevertheless, please consider the following few randomly selected facts (of many):

1. The Oera Linda Book(OLB)(1867) claims that their civilization in Europe was destroyed in 2193 BC by a massive natural disaster. The book mentions earthquakes, volcanic activity, fires, tsunamis, etc. that lasted for 3 years. Archaeologists and historians agree that the Old Kingdom in Egypt came to an end in ca. 2200 BC; the Harrapan (Indus Valley) civilization came to an end in ca.2200 BC; The Hongsan Culture in China came to an end in ca 2200 BC and Professor Harvey Weiss stated that the Akkadian Empire in Syria was destroyed in 2193 BC. In addition, the last Mammoths on Wrangle Island in the Arctic became extinct at the same time. In fact, carbon dating on one of the Mammoths indicated that the animal died about 2192 BC. Non of this information was available 140 years ago when the OLB surfaced.(Except possibly for the Old Kingdom in Egypt)

2. The OLB stated that before the disaster "the sun rose higher". This would indicate that they were closer to the equator. The book of Enoch (Noah's Great-Grandfather) stated that the "pillar of the earth shook from its foundation" and "the earth was violently shaken and became inclined" Various ancient scribes described the unmistakable effects of a cosmic impact.(Ipuwer, Neferti, etc.) Very prominent scientists such as Dr. Dallas Abbott et al have actually found evidence of this in 2005 (Please check the "Burckle Crater")

3. Professor Timo Niroma , on his website "The Third Millennium BC¬ (3100-2100 BC)" states "During the years 2200-2100 BC  the saltines of the soil rose markedly, possibly because of sea floods" at the time of the destruction of Akkadian Sumer (present day Syria). He also states:
" Mesopotamia and other above-mentioned places were not the only victims of the 2200 BC event. As far away as in China, the Hongsan culture fell in pieces at this same time. This, if not anything else, is an indication of the mighty character of the event, and bolsters us to consider it as global. "

4. The OLB tells the story of a "Sea King" (not a monarch) by the name of Minnos that settled on Crete in ca. 1630 BC. In the 19th century nobody even knew that a "Minoan Civilization" ever existed. Archaeological work during the 20th century confirms everything that the OLB stated regarding the Middle Minoan period - even the date of ca 1600 BC. This date was only established in the latter half of the 20th century.

5. The OLB mentions the destruction of Troy in 1188 BC. In the beginning of the 21st century (140 years after the OLB) archaeologists concluded that Hellenic Troy (Troy VIIa) was destroyed in ca 1188 BC. In the 19th century Troy was still regarded as a myth.

6. The OLB claims that "Nef Tunis" from Frisia founded Tyre (in Lebanon) in 2000 BC. The Bible refers to tyre as having been "inhabited by seafaring men" and "inhabited from across the sea" (Afrikaans Translation)

7. The OLB described how some of them was expelled from Athens in ca 1550 BC and fled to India. This ties up exactly with the Avesta and Rig-Veda scriptures(Dating back to ca. 1500 BC). This also exactly the time when iron working commenced in India, (and the Caste System!)

8. During the 1980's archaeologists discovered naturally mummified Caucasian bodies in the Tarim Basin in Western China. They dated these mummies to ca 1500 BC.

I have tested the OLB against genetics, linguistics, theology, volcanism, climatology and many other modern discoveries and information that was not available in the 19th century and in every case the OLB was vindicated. Even ancient scribes such as Homer, Tacitus, Herodotus, Arrian, Ovid, Josephus and others support the claims made in the OLB.

The OLB was essentially declared a hoax by linguists who felt that the language was too modern. That is about the same as saying that the King James Bible is a hoax because the Jews did not speak Victorian English. The original translator of the OLB, Dr. Ottema, was a very prominent linguist and he believed to the day of his death that the book was authentic.

The Dutch rejects the book (understandably) because it was abused by the Nazis and, still today, by neo-Nazi groups and others; but then, so is the Bible. It still does not detract from the historical value of the book.

People like to quote Wikipedia as the "ultimate truth". Wiki can, however, only publish what is out there at any given time.
Remember, the Plate Tectonics Theory was ridiculed for 70 years before it was accepted and it took 10 years before scientists accepted that the dinosaurs could have been wiped out by an asteroid impact. There was a time when people thought they did the world a favour by burning anybody who said that the world was not flat. The list goes on.

I am convinced that we are talking about a hoax here but it is definitely not the Oera Linda Book and yes, you guessed correctly, I am the idiot that wrote "Survivors of the Great Tsunami"

Raw DATA gotta love it! Velikovski put together vast amounts of RAW DATA that much of it coincides with this book. Also the American plains Indians of Oklahoma have a legend of "a great wave that reached the sky came from out of the North".  How ever I don't see how a wave would come from the north out of one started south of Madagascar. But then again with the earth twisting and the water wafting all over it, could.

What we say and do unto others while here on earth are the vessels of our glory or undoing EXCUSE ME WHILE I KISS THE SKY
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#4883    Alewyn

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Posted 15 May 2011 - 08:09 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 14 May 2011 - 06:11 PM, said:

And now, who is not being serious here, Alewyn?

Tell us Abe, does your previous post (#4876) regarding an ancient civilization with “dozens of temples that are believed to be older than the pyramids in Egypt” disprove the OLB and its claims to a very old civilization? Of course it does not.  In fact, it shows just the opposite: that the OLB’s claims are quite plausible (facts given by you!).

Yet, only two posts further (#4879) you say:

Quote

“The more I think of it, the more I get convinced that those who are considered to be the main 'suspects' of creating the OLB, priests, pastors and preachers, or whatever you want to call them, loved to slip in hints to the Bible, and twist it to suit a great Frisian history.”

Now you are back to speculation which you believe is nearer the truth! How does your logic work?

Quote

You researched to write your book, and after that you must have assumed you had covered it all and quit looking further.

Do you seriously expect me or anyone else to place all the supporting evidence out there in a single book? I gave sufficient and compelling evidence to prove my point. I wrote a book – not an encyclopedia!

All you are doing is giving  supporting evidence to my viewpoint. This pleases me and is exactly what I want people to do – to find supporting evidence to my stance that the OLB’s history is true. The problem that I have is that you ignore your own findings. Are you that afraid to go against the popular (and flimsy) view in the Netherlands that the OLB is a hoax?


#4884    Alewyn

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Posted 15 May 2011 - 08:59 AM

View Postcerberusxp, on 15 May 2011 - 06:15 AM, said:

Raw DATA gotta love it! Velikovski put together vast amounts of RAW DATA that much of it coincides with this book. Also the American plains Indians of Oklahoma have a legend of "a great wave that reached the sky came from out of the North".  How ever I don't see how a wave would come from the north out of one started south of Madagascar. But then again with the earth twisting and the water wafting all over it, could.
Hi Cerbersxp,
Could you perhaps give some more info or a possible link to those Indian legends?

Puzzler has also referred to Velikovski. I have since read his autobiography but nothing else. Could you tell me which of his writings you are referring to? Thanks.


#4885    Abramelin

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Posted 15 May 2011 - 09:18 AM

View PostAlewyn, on 15 May 2011 - 08:09 AM, said:

Tell us Abe, does your previous post (#4876) regarding an ancient civilization with “dozens of temples that are believed to be older than the pyramids in Egypt” disprove the OLB and its claims to a very old civilization? Of course it does not.  In fact, it shows just the opposite: that the OLB’s claims are quite plausible (facts given by you!).

Yet, only two posts further (#4879) you say:



Now you are back to speculation which you believe is nearer the truth! How does your logic work?



Do you seriously expect me or anyone else to place all the supporting evidence out there in a single book? I gave sufficient and compelling evidence to prove my point. I wrote a book – not an encyclopedia!

All you are doing is giving  supporting evidence to my viewpoint. This pleases me and is exactly what I want people to do – to find supporting evidence to my stance that the OLB’s history is true. The problem that I have is that you ignore your own findings. Are you that afraid to go against the popular (and flimsy) view in the Netherlands that the OLB is a hoax?

Yes, I posted about that ancient European civilization , just to say, "Hey, there was actually one!" But did you actually read everything I posted about it? How old it was, and how long it lasted? It was gone long before 2194 BC, and it lasted for only several centuries.

But there are other things that do not make me sway to the OLB.

That 2200 BC date for the climactic change appears not to be 2200 BC, but 2350 BC.

The recently discovered date for a worldwode climactic change, 850 BC, is nowhere to be found on the OLB.

About the date of the 2nd disaster in the OLB, the flood of around 306 BC (Frethorik's writings), I said that people in the 19th century could not have known about that or the socalled Dunkirk I Transgression.

But this morning I remembered I had found an earlier source for that date, a Frisian source... and that I had already posted about it: post 3157, page 211.



350 of 360 voor Christus. De Kimbrische vloed.

De zeventiende eeuwse Friese geschiedschrijver Chr. Schotanus schreef over de Kimbrische vloed;

“Omtrend den jare nae de scheppinghe der werelt 360 ofte 350 voor de geboorte Jesu Christi is door stormen en tempgeesten een schricklijke watervloed over alle zee-custen van Duytsland gelopen, die veel vee ende mensen heeft vernielt.Dit eerste en oudste vloet, daer men gedachtenis af kan hebben, die oock so men meent, alle eylanden, aan de Friessche custen , van’t vaste land afgescheurt en vele binnenwateren ende meeren gemaekt heeft, daer de monden van de rivieren, voorhenen, met enghe gaten in ze uitliepen.


http://www.lutebouwe...tormvloeden.htm

Translation:

The 17th century Frisian historian Chr. Schotanus wrote this about the Cymbrian Flood:

About the year 360 or 350 before the birth of Jesus Christ a terrible flood, caused by violent storms, hit all the sea coasts of Germany, a flood that destroyed many cattle and people. This first and oldest flood which can be remembered, could also have ripped all the islands on the Frisian coast from the mainland, and have created many inlets and lakes because formerly the mouths of the rivers ended up in them through narrow entrances.



Compare the dates:

Science (21th century/New York tsunami): 200 - 400 BC ("around 300 B.C., give or take a century"
OLB (19th century): 305 BC
Schotanus (17th century) : 350/360 BC.


++++

EDIT:

And Alewyn, did you read what I posted about the Christian chi-rho sign, a sign still used by the Pax Christi movement??

The OLB describes the same sign, and calls the loop of the -P- the "kroder", or wheelbarow.

I didn't even know what a "kroder" was, and then I found a site on Hyves (a Dutch Facebook) about people with that name, and a wheelbarrow as backround image !!

I will bet you will not use that little gem in the second edition of your book, or the date Schotanus came up with in the 17th century for the Cymbrian Flood.

.


.

Edited by Abramelin, 15 May 2011 - 09:32 AM.


#4886    Abramelin

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Posted 15 May 2011 - 09:46 AM

And I don't think I have to tell you where this chi-rho sign came from, or at least, how it became popular:

http://en.wikipedia....ntine_the_Great

Here a theory about what that 'sign from heaven' may have been:

http://www.sott.net/...istian-history-

A comet impact !!


.

Edited by Abramelin, 15 May 2011 - 09:53 AM.


#4887    Alewyn

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Posted 15 May 2011 - 09:56 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 15 May 2011 - 09:18 AM, said:

Yes, I posted about that ancient European civilization , just to say, "Hey, there was actually one!" But did you actually read everything I posted about it? How old it was, and how long it lasted? It was gone long before 2194 BC, and it lasted for only several centuries.

Let me see if I understand your reasoning:

Some 7000 years ago some peoples, from who knows where, settled in Europe. They built fortifications, buildings and temples. After two hundred years they died out. Nothing of their culture or knowledge remained. They left no legacy. They appeared out of thin air and again vanished into thin air. There is no possibility that they could have been the ancestors of the OLB's Fryan people who lived some 2000+ years later. Therefore, the Oera Linda Book is a hoax. Makes perfect sense. After all, civilization in North Western Europe only arrived in ca 300 BC with the Romans.


#4888    Abramelin

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Posted 15 May 2011 - 10:05 AM

View PostAlewyn, on 15 May 2011 - 09:56 AM, said:

Let me see if I understand your reasoning:

Some 7000 years ago some peoples, from who knows where, settled in Europe. They built fortifications, buildings and temples. After two hundred years they died out. Nothing of their culture or knowledge remained. They left no legacy. They appeared out of thin air and again vanished into thin air. There is no possibility that they could have been the ancestors of the OLB's Fryan people who lived some 2000+ years later. Therefore, the Oera Linda Book is a hoax. Makes perfect sense. After all, civilization in North Western Europe only arrived in ca 300 BC with the Romans.

No, I only posted that there actually was an ancient European civilization, something I didn't even know of.

So there, I thought, there is your ancient European civilization.

It doesn't prove the OLB is a hoax, but it also most certainly does not prove it is authentic.

If it had been like 5000 years old, then you would have won jackpot.

The OLB itself tells us that before 2194 BC, before the destruction of Aldland, nothing was written down because everything was so swell that no one felt the need to write anything down.

So, here we have an ancient civilization, it disppears into thin air, and then after 2000 years the Fryans come back and tell us nothing happened.

You are too stuck on that date, 2194 BC. Even one of your Dutch predecessors, Overwijn (in 1941 and 1951) assumed the date was wrong, and that it should have been 6200 BC, the date of the destruction of what he called "Doggerland".


++++

EDIT:

Despite the OLB telling us that before 2194 BC they had no need to write anything down, others, much earlier did feel that need:

The Dispilio Tablet, found in Greece, was carbon 14-dated to about 7300 BP (5260 BC), and it does not contain random scratches :

http://en.wikipedia....Dispilio_Tablet

And Greece is located close to that European civilization, and what they found is close in time.

.

Edited by Abramelin, 15 May 2011 - 10:23 AM.


#4889    Alewyn

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Posted 15 May 2011 - 10:24 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 15 May 2011 - 10:05 AM, said:

The OLB itself tells us that before 2194 BC, before the destruction of Aldland, nothing was written down because everything was so swell that no one felt the need to write anything down.

That is not quite correct. They merely said that they did not count the years.

If you read between the lines, they could have had some form of written communication. All their fortifications' excavations had exactly the same volume even though they were different in terms of depth, circumference, etc. But, we do not want to speculate too much, now do we?

Quote

It doesn't prove the OLB is a hoax, but it also most certainly does not prove it is authentic.

Agreed. But it does show that Europe was already showing signs of civilization apparently long before Egypt. Now we have all been told that the cradle of Western Civilization was in Egypt and the Middle East. This find clearly shows that not to be the case and should compell us to have a closer look at Europe as such a cradle. Now, with that in mind, you must at least agree that the OLB's claims are not all that absurd.


#4890    Abramelin

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Posted 15 May 2011 - 10:37 AM

View PostAlewyn, on 15 May 2011 - 10:24 AM, said:

That is not quite correct. They merely said that they did not count the years.

If you read between the lines, they could have had some form of written communication. All their fortifications' excavations had exactly the same volume even though they were different in terms of depth, circumference, etc. But, we do not want to speculate too much, now do we?



Agreed. But it does show that Europe was already showing signs of civilization apparently long before Egypt. Now we have all been told that the cradle of Western Civilization was in Egypt and the Middle East. This find clearly shows that not to be the case and should compell us to have a closer look at Europe as such a cradle. Now, with that in mind, you must at least agree that the OLB's claims are not all that absurd.

Yes, you are right, I was wrong:

Before the bad time came our country was the most beautiful in the world. The sun rose higher, and there was seldom frost. The trees and shrubs produced various fruits, which are now lost. In the fields we had not only barley, oats, and rye, but wheat which shone like gold, and which could be baked in the sun’s rays. The years were not counted, for one was as happy as another.

http://oeralinda.angelfire.com/


The claims of the OLB - purely looking at it as a story of ancient history - is of course not absurd.

There are no crazy claims of people fighting dragons or monsters or aliens landing on earth or things like that.

The OLB describes a European civilization with a monotheistic religion (Wralda, and 3 mythical ancestors of all the people on earth).

But this is not about the OLB narrative (or better, chronicle) being absurd, but whether it all happened as it tells us it all happened.

+++

Btw, did you see that Dispilio Tablet? Now would it not have been nice if it's script would have resembled the OLB script??

And another script:

Sitovo inscription (dated to 4500 BC):
http://my.opera.com/...how.dml/2650729

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Edited by Abramelin, 15 May 2011 - 10:49 AM.