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[Archived]Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood


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#6301    Abramelin

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 01:08 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 07 May 2011 - 01:38 PM, said:

Teksel (pronounced the same as Texel) is indeed not in the OLB, there it's called "Texland". Texel is like an abbreviation of Texland. In fact - even though I am Dutch - I pronounce it with a -ks- , not with -ss-.

We've discussed this before, but just as a reminder a link to a Dutch wikipage: http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texla

And you will read Thesla ("Zuidland") as one of the (older) names for Texel, and it means "South Land" (remember we talked about it in relation to Otharus' post about Tessaloniki??).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taexali
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texel


#6302    Knul

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 03:44 PM

First Wralda breathed his spirit to bind them to his spirit, then came Adam (Od) to make children to them.

I noticed the Taexali, but I can't do much with it.


#6303    Abramelin

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 03:48 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 15 September 2011 - 12:49 PM, said:

I remember I once told Otharus - after he posted an image of a (Roman) letter that looked much like the OLB -m- that it would be really something if he found an ancient example of the OLB letter for -th-.

Well, I was busy in another thread (Norse Mythology), and I think I have found it...

First the table that shows all the letters of the OLB:

Posted Image

An example from the manuscript (a paragraph which talks about those 'cows with golden horns'):

Posted Image

As you see in the example, the horizontal/sloping stroke on top of that letter is also sometimes a bit below the top.

And what does it look like? It looks like a letter called "thorn with stroke" :

Posted Image

Thorn with stroke: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%EA%9D%A4

Or read even more about it here: http://babelstone.bl...whats-that.html

And now look at this pic from that last site:

Posted Image

You will see the letters I encircled... and you won't only see that 'thorn' letter, but also one that looks even more like the OLB -th- .

And it's a medieval invention.


.

The Cyrillic 'tshe' or -Ћ- looks even more alike:

Tshe (Ћ ћ; italics: Ћ ћ) is a letter of the Cyrillic alphabet, used only in the Serbian, Bosnian and Montenegrin alphabets, where it represents the voiceless alveolo-palatal affricate /tɕ/, somewhat like the pronunciation of ‹ch› in "chew". The sound of Tshe is produced from the voiceless alveolar plosive /t/ by iotation. Tshe is the 23rd letter In these alphabets. It is a traditional Serbian letter, and the only historical one in Vuk Stefanović Karadžić's reform.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tshe


Also known as the russian alphabet, and used in countries surrounding it (Bulgaria, Khazakstan). There are 32 letters in uppercase and 32 letters in lower case making 64 total letters. the history of the cyrillic alphabet derived from a ninth century monk who decided to make his own alphabet. It was widely accepted as the glagolitic alphabet by saints cyril who made a common variant. This alternative would lead to the modern cyrillic we love and cherish today. There are other theories that supports the alphabet originating from old greek.

Posted Image

http://library.think...rg/06aug/01884/

Just to show the OLB letter for -th- does show up elsewhere, but from medieval times.

Personally I think the socalled "thorn with stroke" letter is the one to focus on.


#6304    Knul

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 03:48 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 15 September 2011 - 01:08 PM, said:


Texland may be the name of the sunken land, the island of Texel may be a remainal of the vast area.


#6305    Abramelin

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 03:52 PM

View PostKnul, on 15 September 2011 - 03:48 PM, said:

Texland may be the name of the sunken land, the island of Texel may be a remainal of the vast area.

But how about those "Taexali" from Ptolemy's Scotland?

Immigrants from ancient Friesland?


#6306    Knul

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 03:58 PM

Might be as long as you do not combine Loch Ness with Nes on Ameland.


#6307    Knul

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 04:05 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 15 September 2011 - 03:48 PM, said:

The Cyrillic 'tshe' or -Ћ- looks even more alike:

Tshe (Ћ ћ; italics: Ћ ћ) is a letter of the Cyrillic alphabet, used only in the Serbian, Bosnian and Montenegrin alphabets, where it represents the voiceless alveolo-palatal affricate /tɕ/, somewhat like the pronunciation of ‹ch› in "chew". The sound of Tshe is produced from the voiceless alveolar plosive /t/ by iotation. Tshe is the 23rd letter In these alphabets. It is a traditional Serbian letter, and the only historical one in Vuk Stefanović Karadžić's reform.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tshe


Also known as the russian alphabet, and used in countries surrounding it (Bulgaria, Khazakstan). There are 32 letters in uppercase and 32 letters in lower case making 64 total letters. the history of the cyrillic alphabet derived from a ninth century monk who decided to make his own alphabet. It was widely accepted as the glagolitic alphabet by saints cyril who made a common variant. This alternative would lead to the modern cyrillic we love and cherish today. There are other theories that supports the alphabet originating from old greek.

Posted Image

http://library.think...rg/06aug/01884/

Just to show the OLB letter for -th- does show up elsewhere, but from medieval times.

Personally I think the socalled "thorn with stroke" letter is the one to focus on.

In fact, it is the Greek alphabet, but expanded with a number of signs for Church Slavonic.


#6308    Abramelin

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 04:30 PM

View PostKnul, on 15 September 2011 - 04:05 PM, said:

In fact, it is the Greek alphabet, but expanded with a number of signs for Church Slavonic.

OK. So where does this "tshe" or -Ћ- letter come from?

I understand Cyrillic comes from Greek, and several newly 'invented' letters were added.

Does "tshe" come from Greek, or is it one of those new letters?


.

Edited by Abramelin, 15 September 2011 - 04:30 PM.


#6309    Abramelin

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 04:32 PM

View PostKnul, on 15 September 2011 - 03:58 PM, said:

Might be as long as you do not combine Loch Ness with Nes on Ameland.

Or "Nes-aan-de-Amstel", where my grandfather came from.

He did't look much like a monster, though.


#6310    Abramelin

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 05:00 PM

View PostKnul, on 15 September 2011 - 03:44 PM, said:


I noticed the Taexali, but I can't do much with it.

These Taexali lived on the east/south-east coast of Scotland.

ON THE EARLY FRISIAN SETTLEMENTS IN SCOTLAND,
BY W. F. SKENE, ESQ., F.S.A. SCOT

If in these traditions of the Fomhoraigh there is preserved some recollections
of these forerunners of the Saxons and Angles, those Frisians
who under the generic name of Saxons first invested our coasts and made
settlements on our shores, it is probable that we must attribute to them
many of those stupendous hill forts which are to be found within no
great distance from the eastern shore
, and especially those which crown
the summits of the hills termed "Laws," and probably many of the sepulchral
remains; while it is not impossible that the Cat Stane, with its inscription
of "In hoc turpulo jacet Vettafilius Victi," may commemorate
by a Eoman hand the tomb of their first leader Vitta, son of Vecta, the
traditionary grandfather of Hengist and Horsa
.

http://ads.ahds.ac.u...4/4_169_181.pdf

You will remember what the OLB word "Tex" means: Law.



++++++++

EDIT:

According to the contemporary historian Ammianus Marcellinus who says that the Saxons invaded the roman province of Britain as early as AD 360 but not how soon after they invaded Scotland. But the presence of Frisians in Dumfriesshire possibly before AD 400.  The leaders of the Frisians, Octa and Ebissa could have been established in Lothian AD 500; and at any rate, Angles and Frisians i.e. men from the swamps and plains around the Weser, Rhine and Scheldt rivers had spread from the river Tees to the shores of East Lothian by AD 547. Ida, ‘the Flame bearer’ set up the kingdom of Northumbria soon after.

The Forth Estuary used to be called the Frith of Forth and the name Frith itself was written on old maps as mare Freisicum or Frisian Sea and a district on the south side of the Forth which could have been on the East Lothian shore was known long as the ‘Frisian Shore’. Frisians were of course the Dutch or low Germans of Holland and and Hanover in modern terms of course.


http://www.haddingto...k/firstmill.htm

.

Edited by Abramelin, 15 September 2011 - 05:15 PM.


#6311    Knul

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 05:36 PM

Really stunning, what you found, but now.. what would be the relation with the OLB in your opinion ?

What I understand from this article is, that the general name Saxons has been applied to the Frisians and that the Irish called the Frisian pirates Gals, but this would not be the name Golen, which we find in the OLB. The article demonstrates earlier Frisian settlements in Scotland before Hengist and Horsa (described by Bede).

Edited by Knul, 15 September 2011 - 06:33 PM.


#6312    cormac mac airt

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 06:09 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 15 September 2011 - 05:00 PM, said:

These Taexali lived on the east/south-east coast of Scotland.

ON THE EARLY FRISIAN SETTLEMENTS IN SCOTLAND,
BY W. F. SKENE, ESQ., F.S.A. SCOT

If in these traditions of the Fomhoraigh there is preserved some recollections
of these forerunners of the Saxons and Angles, those Frisians
who under the generic name of Saxons first invested our coasts and made
settlements on our shores, it is probable that we must attribute to them
many of those stupendous hill forts which are to be found within no
great distance from the eastern shore
, and especially those which crown
the summits of the hills termed "Laws," and probably many of the sepulchral
remains; while it is not impossible that the Cat Stane, with its inscription
of "In hoc turpulo jacet Vettafilius Victi," may commemorate
by a Eoman hand the tomb of their first leader Vitta, son of Vecta, the
traditionary grandfather of Hengist and Horsa
.
http://ads.ahds.ac.u...4/4_169_181.pdf

You will remember what the OLB word "Tex" means: Law.



++++++++

~Snip~.

Setting aside the desire of post-Christianized Irish writers to place stories of the Fir Bolg, Fomhoraigh (Fomorians) or Tuatha de Danaan onto a pre-Christianized Irish historical framework, if it's going to be entertained that said stories have any validity or even date to the timeframe as laid out in the Annals of the Four Masters and other works, then these Fomhoraigh (c.2000 BC) pre-date the Anglo-Saxons by some 2400 years at least. Meaning that the two really don't have much to do with each other, either culturally or temporily. And there were already peoples living in Northern Scotland from Cramond to Orkney, c.8500 - 3500 BC which is well before any historical claims, whether real or imagined.

cormac

The city and citizens, which you yesterday described to us in fiction, we will now transfer to the world of reality. It shall be the ancient city of Athens, and we will suppose that the citizens whom you imagined, were our veritable ancestors, of whom the priest spoke; they will perfectly harmonise, and there will be no inconsistency in saying that the citizens of your republic are these ancient Athenians. --  Plato's Timaeus

#6313    Abramelin

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 06:10 PM

View PostKnul, on 15 September 2011 - 05:36 PM, said:

Really stunning, what you found, but now.. what would be the relation with the OLB in your opinion ?

-1- Ptolemy's "Geography" was most probably one of the sources of the OLB;

-2- Frisians have been in contact with the Scots for many ages, and even settled there;

-3- Even earlier Frisians may indeed have come from 'Texla' (one of the ancient names of the isle of Texel/Tessel. Texel and other parts of the Netherlands got catastrophically flooded around 350 or 360 BC, according to an old Frisian source I have talked about a long time ago) and settled in the area on Ptolemy's map that was inhabited by the 'Taexali';

Intermezzo (from an old post of mine):

The 17th century Frisian historian Chr. Schotanus wrote this about the Cymbrian Flood:

About the year 360 or 350 before the birth of Jesus Christ a terrible flood, caused by violent storms, hit all the sea coasts of Germany, a flood that destroyed many cattle and people. This first and oldest flood which can be remembered, could also have ripped all the islands on the Frisian coast from the mainland, and have created many inlets and lakes because formerly the mouths of the rivers ended up in them through narrow entrances.



-4- I will bet a dime that those/the one who created the OLB knew that (some of) these Scottish hillforts (in the area where the Taexali lived) were called "Laws".


I have not yet found the word 'tex' as meaning 'law' in Old Frisian (it should be something like 'rjucht' in real Old Frisian), but combining the 4 points I mentioned, I think I know how the creators of the OLB made it up.

.

Edited by Abramelin, 15 September 2011 - 06:26 PM.


#6314    Abramelin

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 06:17 PM

View Postcormac mac airt, on 15 September 2011 - 06:09 PM, said:

Setting aside the desire of post-Christianized Irish writers to place stories of the Fir Bolg, Fomhoraigh (Fomorians) or Tuatha de Danaan onto a pre-Christianized Irish historical framework, if it's going to be entertained that said stories have any validity or even date to the timeframe as laid out in the Annals of the Four Masters and other works, then these Fomhoraigh (c.2000 BC) pre-date the Anglo-Saxons by some 2400 years at least. Meaning that the two really don't have much to do with each other, either culturally or temporily. And there were already peoples living in Northern Scotland from Cramond to Orkney, c.8500 - 3500 BC which is well before any historical claims, whether real or imagined.

cormac

You read in my quote from that old book about the Fomorians, but it really is not about the Fomorians (I actually wanted to leave that name out of the quote.... because I expected you would jump on it, lol).

Btw: the Fomorians are often described as being ''swarthy', while the Frisians are the most blond-haired people on the planet.

This is just about where did the creators of the OLB got their inspiration from.


.

Edited by Abramelin, 15 September 2011 - 06:27 PM.


#6315    cormac mac airt

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 06:24 PM

1) I was thinking the same thing.

2) But not likely with any association with mythical Fir Bolg, Fomorians or Tuatha de Danaan as laid out in the chronologies of Irish texts.

3) An alternate possibility is that the name "Taexali" has a completely unrelated origin.

4) I wouldn't bet against you.

cormac

The city and citizens, which you yesterday described to us in fiction, we will now transfer to the world of reality. It shall be the ancient city of Athens, and we will suppose that the citizens whom you imagined, were our veritable ancestors, of whom the priest spoke; they will perfectly harmonise, and there will be no inconsistency in saying that the citizens of your republic are these ancient Athenians. --  Plato's Timaeus