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[Archived]Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood


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#7966    Abramelin

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Posted 25 November 2011 - 06:43 PM

View PostOtharus, on 25 November 2011 - 06:25 PM, said:

Well done, Abe. Very interesting!

Thanks. But the point is that those stilt houses were either known (or made up) by this Van Lennep in 1838.

But I'm not that sure about the people living in these stilt houses ("hutten op palen") were the Marsaten according to that book by Van Lennep; he seems to suggest it were the Batavians (on their 'island' between the rivers I guess). Maybe I didn't read it right or I missed something: I scrolled past 487 pages, humming "Marezaten" all the time, lol.

And I started at the end of the book because I had hoped to see some sort of an index there. I didn't and scrolled back page for page, only to discover that passage about those stilt houses near the beginning.

The Marezaten were mentioned a couple of times, but not in direct relation to these stilt houses.


Oh, and a nice extra: "Freia" (the goddess) is mentioned a couple of times; one time in a poem sung by some witch, another time by someone who was a bit displeased with the (sexual) behaviour of (I think some) Romans (like in "if Freia could prevent this, this would not happen").

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Edited by Abramelin, 25 November 2011 - 06:59 PM.


#7967    Abramelin

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Posted 25 November 2011 - 07:03 PM

And no doubt you will all be pleased to hear what name Van Lennep gives - while talking about the Romans -  to the Mediterranean (or "Middellandse Zee" in Dutch):

Middelzee

(you must scroll down a bit when you open the link).

The best thing to do is download the book; that's what I did.

Anyway, the message is: some 30 years before the OLB was published some Dutch writer used the name "Middelzee" for the Mediterranean.

So there we have 2 Middle Seas: one in Friesland, and the one we know now as Mediterranean (Middellandse Zee).



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Edited by Abramelin, 25 November 2011 - 07:11 PM.


#7968    Abramelin

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Posted 25 November 2011 - 08:13 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 25 November 2011 - 06:43 PM, said:

Thanks. But the point is that those stilt houses were either known (or made up) by this Van Lennep in 1838.

But I'm not that sure about the people living in these stilt houses ("hutten op palen") were the Marsaten according to that book by Van Lennep; he seems to suggest it were the Batavians (on their 'island' between the rivers I guess). Maybe I didn't read it right or I missed something: I scrolled past 487 pages, humming "Marezaten" all the time, lol.

And I started at the end of the book because I had hoped to see some sort of an index there. I didn't and scrolled back page for page, only to discover that passage about those stilt houses near the beginning.

The Marezaten were mentioned a couple of times, but not in direct relation to these stilt houses.


Oh, and a nice extra: "Freia" (the goddess) is mentioned a couple of times; one time in a poem sung by some witch, another time by someone who was a bit displeased with the (sexual) behaviour of (I think some) Romans (like in "if Freia could prevent this, this would not happen").

.
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I found a centuries old book (1752) about Dutch history which gives us an idea about what these people back then thought about where the Marsaten/Marezaaten lived:

Vaderlandsche Historie, Vervattende De Geschiedenissen Der Nu ..., Volume 1 - Jan Wagenaar



Posted Image

The Mareza(a)ten/Marsaten and Batavians were close neighbours.

The Marsaten lived near a river called "Mare" that still (in 1752 that is) runs through the city of Leiden.

"Marezaten"... those 'seated' (gezeten/zaten) near the 'Mare'.

This is a map I posted a few posts back (from Van Lennep's book):

Posted Image

You will see a lake called "Meir" and a stream ("Noordelijke Rhijn tak" = Northern branch of the river Rhine) running down-left to "Matilo" (= Leiden). This must be that stream/river called "Mare".




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Edited by Abramelin, 25 November 2011 - 08:30 PM.


#7969    Abramelin

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Posted 25 November 2011 - 08:47 PM

Another titbit of info I found:

"Neef Teunis" voor "Neptunus" vinden we bij Pieter Langedijk
(Nef Teunis or "Neptune" we find in [a poem of] Pieter Langedijk

http://www.archiefle...meij,oera,linda

As "Nepthuin" and ""Neptuin" 1751 (and don't forget to check who Langedijk wrote this poem for, LOL:  Jacob Alewyn Ghyzen, Junior )

Theun and Thuin are pronounced almsot exactly the same.

Btw: they really DID know back then, how to spell "Neptune" (or "Neptunis") right.

http://www.dbnl.org/...i05_01_0071.php

Cheers.

OK Alewyn, I am waiting for your 'compliments'.

Heh, nevermind.

"Co-writer", eh? I will bet the third edition of your book will be filled to the brim with what I found out.

If not, you are an id**



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Edited by Abramelin, 25 November 2011 - 09:03 PM.


#7970    Abramelin

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Posted 25 November 2011 - 09:15 PM

Otharus once called me the "über-googler".

Puzz once posted that those "Hollanders" are an arrogant lot.

Damn, I am one of those 'Hollanders', and I will tell you an off-topic story, arrogant as I must be.

I once had a girlfriend who hadn't seen her father for like 30 years (she was 35 back then).

The guy had left his wife and kid (her) because some people had tricked him out of all his money (he was a cab driver and owned a small cab/taxi company.

She told me the whole drama, and I asked her, "Is it ok for you if I try to find him on the internet?"

Of course she said 'yes', but added that I must be crazy.

Well, I am quite crazy.... but I did find her father... hospitalized in some Salvation Army hospital (Utrecht/Netherlands), four days before he was about to die of liver cancer.

They met (she went along with me).

If I told you all the whole experience, I could fill a captivating documentary.

I find anything. Just give me time, and I will (that is one of the advantages of having no life).

Edited by Abramelin, 25 November 2011 - 09:20 PM.


#7971    lilthor

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 01:51 AM

The arrogance in the aforegoing leaves one utterly without words.

Edited by lilthor, 26 November 2011 - 02:14 AM.


#7972    Knul

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 02:58 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 25 November 2011 - 09:15 PM, said:

Otharus once called me the "über-googler".

Puzz once posted that those "Hollanders" are an arrogant lot.

Damn, I am one of those 'Hollanders', and I will tell you an off-topic story, arrogant as I must be.

I once had a girlfriend who hadn't seen her father for like 30 years (she was 35 back then).

The guy had left his wife and kid (her) because some people had tricked him out of all his money (he was a cab driver and owned a small cab/taxi company.

She told me the whole drama, and I asked her, "Is it ok for you if I try to find him on the internet?"

Of course she said 'yes', but added that I must be crazy.

Well, I am quite crazy.... but I did find her father... hospitalized in some Salvation Army hospital (Utrecht/Netherlands), four days before he was about to die of liver cancer.

They met (she went along with me).

If I told you all the whole experience, I could fill a captivating documentary.

I find anything. Just give me time, and I will (that is one of the advantages of having no life).

Sorry, but this has nothing to do with the OLB.


#7973    Otharus

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 09:32 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 25 November 2011 - 03:07 PM, said:

Onze voorouders (Our ancestors) - Jacob van Lennep
http://books.google....epage&q&f=false
This is an important source for who wants to know how the early 19th century Dutch thought about their ancient past.

I already like Van Lennep's introduction (sorry no translation yet):

Men heeft veel over het nuttige of nadeelige der historische romans geschreven en getwist: en het is mijne bedoeling niet, te dezer plaatse dit vraagpunt op nieuw te berde te brengen. Dat ik mij aan het opstellen en uitgeven van dergelijke verhalen bezondig, is een bewijs, dat ik de soort voorsta en mijn gevoelen te dien opzichte kan niet onpartijdig zijn. Slechts dit geloof ik te kunnen vaststellen, dat de rechte kennis der waarheid minder schade lijdt door een roman dan door een dagblad of een geschiedkundig werk. Dit moge bij den eersten opslag een paradox schijnen; maar niets is er, dat meer heeft van een paradox dan een nieuw denkbeeld: — en de verklaring mijner stelling is dood eenvoudig. De lezer van een roman is reeds door den tytel gewaarschuwd, dat hij waarheid en verdichting door een gemengd zal vinden: en hij heeft het zichzelf te wijten, zoo hij alles voor goede munt opneemt. De dagblad- en historieschrijver daarentegen beloven waarheid: — en hoevelen onder hen zijn er, die woord houden?

And then the title of part I "ALWART".
As "Alward" (which sounds the same), this is an anagram of "Wralda".
Coincidence?

Ignore them grumpy bears, Abe.
You did a good job.


#7974    Otharus

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 09:48 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 25 November 2011 - 06:43 PM, said:

Oh, and a nice extra: "Freia" (the goddess) is mentioned a couple of times; one time in a poem sung by some witch, another time by someone who was a bit displeased with the (sexual) behaviour of (I think some) Romans (like in "if Freia could prevent this, this would not happen").
Quite relevant.

The phrase "Freia behoede ons!" (May Freya save us!) is also found in:

De Gids. Nieuwe Vaderlandsche Letteroefeningen. G.J.A. Beijerinck, Amsterdam 1839.

http://www.dbnl.org/...901_01_0115.php

(one year after publication of Van Lennep's book)


#7975    Knul

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 12:13 PM

Overeenkomsten met Jacob van Lennep

Het is hier de plaats om te wijzen op overeenkomsten tussen Joost Halbertsma en Jacob van Lennep (1802-1868), bekend schrijver van historische Romans als De roos van Dekama. Een opvallende verschijning in De roos van Dekama is Madzy, wiens naam toch wel erg veel lijkt op Magi, de aanvoerder van de Finnen en Magyaren in het Oera Linda Boek. De Madscharen komen we trouwens ook tegen in De roos van Dekama evenals de Alfader, in het Oera Linda Boek Alfoder genoemd. De Magyaren (van Lennep’s Madscharen), die zichzelf nog steeds beschouwen als afstammelingen van de Hunnen, verlieten in de negende eeuw hun toenmalige woonplaats aan de Wolga en terroriseerden het Frankische rijk. Hendrik de Vogelaar kon ze in de tiende eeuw uit zijn stamland Saksen verdrijven, zoals Olberts verhaalt. Zijn zoon Otto de Grote versloeg ze in de slag bij de Lech in Beieren. Daarna trokken de Magyaren zich terug en stichtten Hongarije. Ze bekeerden zich tot het Christendom en werden een gerespecteerd Europees volk.Er lijkt van toeval geen sprake te zijn, wanneer we opmerken, dat Joost Halbertsma in 1836 samen met Jacob van Lennep en Freerk Dirks Fontein een wandeling maakte door Gaasterland en bij die gelegenheid de lucht van een overoud verleden opsnoven. Freerk Dirks Fontein (1777-1843) was een koopman-geleerde uit Harlingen. Hij was een van de mede-oprichters van het Friesch Genootschap. De relatie tussen J.H. Halbertsma en Jacob van Lennep zou wel eens interessante informatie voor het Oera Linda Boek kunnen opleveren.

s. www.rodinbook.nl


#7976    Abramelin

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 12:36 PM

View Postlilthor, on 26 November 2011 - 01:51 AM, said:

The arrogance in the aforegoing leaves one utterly without words.

The arrogance, that was my intention.

Apparently you never read that I am regularly being accused of having an 'agenda' and whatnot.

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View PostKnul, on 26 November 2011 - 02:58 AM, said:

Sorry, but this has nothing to do with the OLB.

I know.

Edited by Abramelin, 26 November 2011 - 12:36 PM.


#7977    Abramelin

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 12:38 PM

View PostOtharus, on 26 November 2011 - 09:32 AM, said:

This is an important source for who wants to know how the early 19th century Dutch thought about their ancient past.

I already like Van Lennep's introduction (sorry no translation yet):

Men heeft veel over het nuttige of nadeelige der historische romans geschreven en getwist: en het is mijne bedoeling niet, te dezer plaatse dit vraagpunt op nieuw te berde te brengen. Dat ik mij aan het opstellen en uitgeven van dergelijke verhalen bezondig, is een bewijs, dat ik de soort voorsta en mijn gevoelen te dien opzichte kan niet onpartijdig zijn. Slechts dit geloof ik te kunnen vaststellen, dat de rechte kennis der waarheid minder schade lijdt door een roman dan door een dagblad of een geschiedkundig werk. Dit moge bij den eersten opslag een paradox schijnen; maar niets is er, dat meer heeft van een paradox dan een nieuw denkbeeld: — en de verklaring mijner stelling is dood eenvoudig. De lezer van een roman is reeds door den tytel gewaarschuwd, dat hij waarheid en verdichting door een gemengd zal vinden: en hij heeft het zichzelf te wijten, zoo hij alles voor goede munt opneemt. De dagblad- en historieschrijver daarentegen beloven waarheid: — en hoevelen onder hen zijn er, die woord houden?

And then the title of part I "ALWART".
As "Alward" (which sounds the same), this is an anagram of "Wralda".
Coincidence?

Ignore them grumpy bears, Abe.
You did a good job.

ALWART, yes, I thought the same as you did, but left it out because even I thought that connection was a bit too vague.


#7978    Abramelin

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 01:06 PM

View PostKnul, on 26 November 2011 - 12:13 PM, said:

Overeenkomsten met Jacob van Lennep

Het is hier de plaats om te wijzen op overeenkomsten tussen Joost Halbertsma en Jacob van Lennep (1802-1868), bekend schrijver van historische Romans als De roos van Dekama. Een opvallende verschijning in De roos van Dekama is Madzy, wiens naam toch wel erg veel lijkt op Magi, de aanvoerder van de Finnen en Magyaren in het Oera Linda Boek. De Madscharen komen we trouwens ook tegen in De roos van Dekama evenals de Alfader, in het Oera Linda Boek Alfoder genoemd. De Magyaren (van Lennep’s Madscharen), die zichzelf nog steeds beschouwen als afstammelingen van de Hunnen, verlieten in de negende eeuw hun toenmalige woonplaats aan de Wolga en terroriseerden het Frankische rijk. Hendrik de Vogelaar kon ze in de tiende eeuw uit zijn stamland Saksen verdrijven, zoals Olberts verhaalt. Zijn zoon Otto de Grote versloeg ze in de slag bij de Lech in Beieren. Daarna trokken de Magyaren zich terug en stichtten Hongarije. Ze bekeerden zich tot het Christendom en werden een gerespecteerd Europees volk.Er lijkt van toeval geen sprake te zijn, wanneer we opmerken, dat Joost Halbertsma in 1836 samen met Jacob van Lennep en Freerk Dirks Fontein een wandeling maakte door Gaasterland en bij die gelegenheid de lucht van een overoud verleden opsnoven. Freerk Dirks Fontein (1777-1843) was een koopman-geleerde uit Harlingen. Hij was een van de mede-oprichters van het Friesch Genootschap. De relatie tussen J.H. Halbertsma en Jacob van Lennep zou wel eens interessante informatie voor het Oera Linda Boek kunnen opleveren.

s. www.rodinbook.nl

Translation:


Similarities with Jacob van Lennep

This is the place to point out similarities between Joost Halbertsma and Jacob van Lennep (1802-1868), author of historical novels known as The Rose of Dekama ("De Roos van Dekama").

A striking appearance in The Rose of Dekama is Madzy, whose name is still very much like the Magi, the leader of the Finns and the Magyars of the Oera Linda Book.

Btw, we also encounter the Madscharen in The Rose of Dekama, like Alfader who's called Alfoder in the Oera Linda Book.

The Magyars (van Lennep's Madscharen), who still consider themseves descendants of the Huns, left their former home on the Volga in the 9th century and terrorized the Frankish empire. Henry de Vogelaar ("the Fowler"), was able to drive them from his homeland Saxony, as Olberts recounts. His son Otto the Great defeated them in the battle of the Lech in Bavaria. After that the Magyars retreated and founded Hungary. They converted to Christianity and became a respected European people.

This doesn't seem to be a coincidence, when we notice that Joost Halbertsma in 1836 along with Jacob van Lennep and Freerk Dirks Fountein made ​​a trip through Gaasterland and on that occasion heard of a rumour of an ancient past. Freerk Dirks Fontein (1777-1843) was a merchant-scholar from Harlingen. He was one of the co-founders of the Friesch Genootschap ("Frisian Academy"). The relationship between J.H. Halbertsma and Jacob van Lennep could well provide interesting information for the Oera Linda Book.


Posted Image

http://rodinbook.nl/...ersbericht.html

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Edited by Abramelin, 26 November 2011 - 01:18 PM.


#7979    Otharus

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 02:33 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 26 November 2011 - 01:06 PM, said:

Translation:
Similarities with Jacob van Lennep
[...] A striking appearance in The Rose of Dekama is Madzy, whose name is still very much like the Magi, the leader of the Finns and the Magyars of the Oera Linda Book.
Abe, you really take this crap seriously?!

The woman's name Madzy has as much to do with the MAGY, als 'sir' Hettema with SYRHED (another one of Knul's revelations).

Edited by Otharus, 26 November 2011 - 02:36 PM.


#7980    Abramelin

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 02:41 PM

View PostOtharus, on 26 November 2011 - 02:33 PM, said:

Abe, you really take this crap seriously?!

The woman's name Madzy has as much to do with the MAGY, als 'sir' Hettema with SYRHED (another one of Knul's revelations).

Heh, I only translated.

But the "Madzy" thing sounded a bit - let's say - unlikely to me too.