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[Archived]Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood


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#8071    Otharus

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Posted 28 November 2011 - 06:46 PM

View PostThe Puzzler, on 28 November 2011 - 03:37 PM, said:

berchta in the translation is apparently mountain - so Lydasburcht would be Lyda's mountain?? I don't think so - this word also equals berg, or as in Burchtfam, a berg, now, note that it said Leiden is built on an artificial HILL - this imo is enough to be a burcht - the translation into English seems to have us thinking big mountains, but a small artificial hill is still a berg/burcht - hence LydasBURCHT.
BURG and BERCH are different words, meaning borough/burgh/citadel/castle (dutch: burcht) and mountain (dutch: berg/gebergte) respectively.

Note: in Dutch "g" and "ch" sound the same in these words.

"Burg" and "berg" may be etymologically related, but in the context of the OLB they clearly have different meanings.


#8072    Abramelin

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Posted 28 November 2011 - 07:02 PM

View PostOtharus, on 28 November 2011 - 06:30 PM, said:

"Accepted" Frisian history...

It's the so-called "fantastic" history, the suppressed, 'occult' (hidden) history that is interesting.

In my research it becomes more and more clear that there were/ are basically two traditions in the Frisian language & history debate.

The one that Hettema and Ottema were representing (and that I like most) is looking more at similarities with Dutch, Westfrisian, Flemmish, and other neighboring cultures (a shared tradition), while The Fryske Akademy, of which Jensma is a representative, aims more at cultural separation of the province Friesland from the rest of The Netherlands.

The video on Youtube in which Jensma talks about the OLB is in the Frisian dialect, without Dutch or English subtitles (so most Dutch won't understand), as if it is only a Frisian affair and does not concern the rest of Europe.



If someone of FA or Tresoar is reading this, I would urge them to make a more international presentation.

I wonder, what are they afraid of?

To start with the video: I think Jensma was being interviewed by some Frisian, maybe even from the Fryske Akademy. I don't think it was done intentionally to 'hide' anything.

Jensma must surely have been aware of the fact that the OLB is being read and believed in in many foreign countries, so I assume he should have no problems promoting his theories (his book about the OLB) to those who can't/don't read/understand Dutch or Frisian.

And as you know, I have recently created a blog - http://oeralinda.blogspot.com/ - with a copy of his theory in English, and it contains a lot more information about his ideas than one can find on an English Wiki page about the OLB. It was a copy - freely available online - by someone who copied (apparently with blindfolds on for the text looked like an utter mess) from a PDF/text written by Jensma.

-

"It's the so-called "fantastic" history, the suppressed, 'occult' (hidden) history that is interesting."

Not at all: these Frisian 'fabulations' or whatever I should call them, are all available online. But yeah, only in Dutch. You and I have both translated many texts from these centuries old 'histories'.

Btw: I often go back in this thread to read what I - or anyone else here - posted many months ago, and I just today I happened to hit on a post of mine where I explained - quoting a source and in English - about the motivation the late medieval Frisians had to concoct these 'fabulations'.

If I had known about your latest post, I would have saved the link to that page of this thread.

But it had to do with gaining some sort of independency for the Frisians during Spanish times by 'proving' ancient ancestry/history. The Hollanders had already done so with their fabrications about being descendents of the Batavians, and the Frisians thought they could do outdo them.

.

Edited by Abramelin, 28 November 2011 - 07:11 PM.


#8073    Abramelin

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Posted 28 November 2011 - 07:19 PM

Here is the post I found today:

View PostAbramelin, on 10 November 2010 - 08:30 PM, said:

I knew it.. here it is, from my post 212, page 15 of this thread:

Abstract:

Begun in 1568, the revolt of the Netherlands against the Spanish stimulated every Dutch province to strive to attain the greatest possible autonomy and independence from the dominant province of Holland. One of the arguments forwarded for pursuing this independent course was how ancient a region was (laudatio ex vetustate). Incidentally, it was Holland with its Batavian myth that had a strong suit in hand in this matter. To counter this, historiographers were appointed to confirm their region's age. In this capacity, the States of Friesland designated Suffridus Petrus (1527-1597), Bernardus Furmerius (1542-1616) and Pierius Winsemius (1586-1644) consecutively. Relying on traditional accounts, which they believed were ancient, Petrus and Furmerius established a line of legendary Frisian monarchs, beginning with Friso - banished from India - who was said to be a descendant of Noah's son Sem. The results of their scholarly research were published in small-scale, unillustrated books in Latin. Not officially commissioned as a historiographer, around 1597 Martinus Hamconius (c. 1550-1620), wrote an acrostic on the name of Suffridus Petrus, which comprised an ekphrasis with an animated description of the legendary Frisians. In 1606 he also devised a table (fig. i) in which all the characters who played a role in the illustrious history of Friesland are described in Latin. This cast of characters was published again in 1617, this time in Dutch (fig. 2). A lost copy of this edition featured illustrations (fig. 3), which were reused in an edition of Hamconius' Frisia (1620) (figs. 17, 20, 21). The tableau of 1617 includes several old Frisian traditional costumes (fig. 10). All the prints were made by Pieter Feddes of Harlingen. A second set of illustrations of the Frisian princes was etched by Simon Wynhoutsz. Frisius around 1617. These prints, known only from Pierius Winsemius' Chronique of 1622 (figs. 15, 18, 19), originally constituted a consecutive series (fig. 13), doubtless intended to illustrate Hamconius' treatise and probably made for his publisher Jan Lamrinck, who (according to the author's hypothesis) could not use it and thus cut down the plates and included them in Winsemius' Chronique, which he also published. A third, incomplete series of illustrations (fig. 14), again by Pieter Feddes, was likewise made to illustrate Hamconius' series, but may have been rejected and likewise used in the Chronique. Some details in four of the figures in both series (figs. 15-23) seem to point to the iconographic tradition of the free Frisian countryman.


http://www.ingentaco...020001/art00001



#8074    Otharus

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Posted 28 November 2011 - 07:38 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 28 November 2011 - 07:02 PM, said:

To start with the video: I think Jensma was being interviewed by some Frisian, maybe even from the Fryske Akademy. I don't think it was done intentionally to 'hide' anything.
That was not one of my best posts.

I did too much today and need a good break...

But I seriously think that Tresoar's OLB site should become more international and that they should subtitle that video.


#8075    Abramelin

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Posted 28 November 2011 - 08:11 PM

View PostOtharus, on 28 November 2011 - 07:38 PM, said:

That was not one of my best posts.

I did too much today and need a good break...

But I seriously think that Tresoar's OLB site should become more international and that they should subtitle that video.

That we agree upon.

I have complained a lot of times of there being a lot of info available online, but always in Dutch (or in this case, Frisian).


#8076    Abramelin

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Posted 28 November 2011 - 09:00 PM

I want to add something positive here.

I have been a participant of this thread for years now, and I have learned a lot.

Main thing: stuff about the Frisians we Dutch never learned in highschool.

These people were great sailors (and most certainly inspired the Vikings), and they settled all around Europe.

They dominated the Hanze (google that one, pls).

The North Sea was once called "Mare Frisia", now you guess why.

Their language was the main language spoken amongst the crusaders during the early crusades, now you guess again why.

They were feared by many people living in the Med because of their huge posture and their fierce nature.

Maybe I forgot something about the Frisians I posted in this thread, but it was never negative.

Just to show you that - as the "Hollander" I am - I respect the ancient history of the Frisians.

Despite Alewyn trying to create somekind of "atmosphere" between Hollanders and Frisians, I try to create a different image.

And according to him I am just another Dutch (=Hollander) guy with an 'agenda'.

+++++++

EDIT:

On my own site I use the name "Blackbeard".

Anyone here get my point?

OK, I'll tell you: I have found out many things about the Frisians that made me feel very happy.

As well as knowing that a 20th century Frisian major (Rüstringen) carried the same family name as I do.

And my brother - a fanatic about our genaeology - found out my family could be traced back to a (Frisian) family in Antwerp... in the 13th century.

There.

Tell me, what is my "agenda"?

Edited by Abramelin, 28 November 2011 - 09:27 PM.


#8077    Alewyn

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Posted 28 November 2011 - 09:07 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 28 November 2011 - 05:35 PM, said:

It's not me with an agenda dear Alewyn, it's nobody but you.

You need to sell your book, and a bit of extra drama won't hurt the sales, no it will attract more attention. You would love it if the Frisians and Hollanders still hated eachother's guts, but if you really believe that.... then you should go out more.

How did you manage to drag me into this one?
Did you even see the date of the post that Otharus refered to? It is more than a year old!

Edit: If I recall it was in a totall different context. Grow up.

Edited by Alewyn, 28 November 2011 - 09:13 PM.


#8078    Abramelin

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Posted 28 November 2011 - 09:14 PM

View PostAlewyn, on 28 November 2011 - 09:07 PM, said:

How did you manage to drag me into this one?
Did you even see the date of the post that Otharus refered to? It is more than a year old!

Edit: If I recall it was in a totall different context. Grow up.

If you are able to read, then I assume you are also able to read my respons to his post.

Edit: If I recall it was in a totall different context: Fk off.

You only show up here to promote your book. And anyone having doubts about the claims you make in your book is someone in a 'conspiracy' to hide the truth, and therewith spoil the sales of your book.

I tell you: I KNOW I have 10 times more respect for the Frisians than you with that book of yours.

Read my former post.

You have no idea AT ALL about my motives.



.

Edited by Abramelin, 28 November 2011 - 09:35 PM.


#8079    Alewyn

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Posted 28 November 2011 - 09:31 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 28 November 2011 - 09:14 PM, said:

If you are able to read, then I assume you are also able to read my respons to his post.

Edit: If I recall it was in a totall different context: Fk off.

You only show up here to promote your book. And anyone having doubts about the claims you make in your book is someone in a 'conspiracy' to hide the truth.

I tell you: I KNOW I have 10 times more respect for the Frisians than you with that book of yours.

Read my former post.

.
You read my original post again. I referred to 700 years ago

As for promoting my book: I am not on the dole or depending of the rest of society to take care of me. I can assure you, I do not need that little bit of money.

And lastly, I will definitely not sink to your level of debate.

Good Day.


#8080    Abramelin

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Posted 28 November 2011 - 09:41 PM

View PostAlewyn, on 28 November 2011 - 09:31 PM, said:

You read my original post again. I referred to 700 years ago

As for promoting my book: I am not on the dole or depending of the rest of society to take care of me. I can assure you, I do not need that little bit of money.

And lastly, I will definitely not sink to your level of debate.

Good Day.

You already "sunk" to my level, long ago.

You are a pain concerning your book.

I am a pain concerning a goal to prove Frisians were NO IDIOTS who believed in fairy tales.

And no, I know you are not out for the money you could earn with the sales of your book, but you are out to not look ridiculous with what you claim in your book.

And well, the money you earn by selling the book could give you a great time in Hawaii (or whatever place you want to go to), eh?


#8081    Riaan

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Posted 28 November 2011 - 09:42 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 28 November 2011 - 09:14 PM, said:

If you are able to read, then I assume you are also able to read my respons to his post.

Edit: If I recall it was in a totall different context: Fk off.

You only show up here to promote your book. And anyone having doubts about the claims you make in your book is someone in a 'conspiracy' to hide the truth, and therewith spoil the sales of your book.

I tell you: I KNOW I have 10 times more respect for the Frisians than you with that book of yours.

Read my former post.

You have no idea AT ALL about my motives.

.

If you go to the very first page, you'll notice that I posted this topic and not Alewyn. Alewyn generously received me at his home and we had a pleasant discussion about our mutual research into these topics. He has put an enormous effort into his book and I decided by myself that it was worth listing on this site for discussion.

Alewyn, it's good to see that you're still active on the forum!

Best regards,
Riaan

Author of

Thera and the Exodus, published February 2013, details here
Barbelo - The Story of Jesus Christ, published October 2014, details here

#8082    Abramelin

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Posted 28 November 2011 - 09:47 PM

View PostRiaan, on 28 November 2011 - 09:42 PM, said:

If you go to the very first page, you'll notice that I posted this topic and not Alewyn. Alewyn generously received me at his home and we had a pleasant discussion about our mutual research into these topics. He has put an enormous effort into his book and I decided by myself that it was worth listing on this site for discussion.

Alewyn, it's good to see that you're still active on the forum!

Best regards,
Riaan

Well, I am being accused of having an "agenda" like every week or so.

Now I ask you: did Alewyn pay you to start this thread?

Me asking you this, that sucks, right? Yeah.

OK, then now you'll understand why I sometimes flare up.

+++++

EDIT:

In case you missed it, many people here put a lot of effort into this thread, a thread that is miles longer than anything your countryman wrote.

If someone wants to write a book about the OLB again, s/he could use what we all posted here.

And hopefully s/he will not be as blind as Alewyn was.

But I am glad you finally showed your 'face' after TWO YEARS, jesus.

.

Edited by Abramelin, 28 November 2011 - 09:56 PM.


#8083    Alewyn

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Posted 28 November 2011 - 09:58 PM

View PostRiaan, on 28 November 2011 - 09:42 PM, said:

If you go to the very first page, you'll notice that I posted this topic and not Alewyn. Alewyn generously received me at his home and we had a pleasant discussion about our mutual research into these topics. He has put an enormous effort into his book and I decided by myself that it was worth listing on this site for discussion.

Alewyn, it's good to see that you're still active on the forum!

Best regards,
Riaan
Hi Riaan, it is good to hear from you again.
Yes, we had our moments, but I believe it is time to move on.

"Meng jou met die semels, dan vreet die varke jou"

Groete.


#8084    Abramelin

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Posted 28 November 2011 - 10:01 PM

View PostAlewyn, on 28 November 2011 - 09:58 PM, said:

Hi Riaan, it is good to hear from you again.
Yes, we had our moments, but I believe it is time to move on.

"Meng jou met die semels, dan vreet die varke jou"

Groete.

"Mix with the barley then the pigs will eat you (if you hang out with bad company, you'll be seen as trouble yourself)"

Thanks.

You just want to not be seen as an ass****.

I never portrayed you like that, but you are just simply WRONG.

Do not insult me again in that sleasy, covered up way, or you will experience what I am capable of.

De groeten, lul.

Again: do not insult me in that covered up way, or I will hack you and all of your sites to smithereens.

I never did that to anyone, but believe me: I know how to do it.

In case you missed it: we are here discussing the validity of a socalled 'ancient document/manuscript'.

That is ALL.



.

Edited by Abramelin, 28 November 2011 - 10:20 PM.


#8085    Knul

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Posted 29 November 2011 - 02:41 AM

Hello Riaan, it was a good idea of you to start this thread. Unfortunately some of the participants are so selfconvinced, that they lost respect for other opinions. This makes the site contraproductive and a waste of time and energy. You may well know, that I do not belong to the believers, but I can agree, that the OLB follows the known timeline. This has not yet been admitted in all the reports I have seen about the OLB, which confine themselves to the timeline from Friso onward. Of course, the role of the Frisians has been exaggerated. I don't mind. The OLB is not a history book