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[Archived]Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood


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#9391    Abramelin

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Posted 11 January 2012 - 05:25 PM

View PostThe Puzzler, on 11 January 2012 - 05:16 PM, said:

Generally accepted form for their name? This disputes that on grounds they did not possess required mapmaking abilities.

The most common theory is that the name Angeln itself means "hook", as in angling for fish. Many reputable etymological dictionaries are silent on its root. Julius Pokorny, a major Indo-European linguist, derives it from *ang-, "bend". The meaning would be Anwohner der Holsteiner Bucht, "residents at the Bay of Holstein". The problem with this derivation is that Grimm's Law does not appear to apply to it. The theory that "Angeln" refers to a landform resembling a hook would have required advanced mapmaking abilities by its people, and is thus misleading.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angeln

Generally accepted ... more than a hundred years ago.

That these guys got their name from their fish-hooks I only found in the OLB and the 1858 source.

But the next etymology sounds even more plausible (to me):

The Angles were part of the Federation of the Ingaevones, with their mythical ancestor and god of fertility Yngvi, and both terms might well share the same root (inglish -> anglish), say as the origin of the federation. Pokorny points out the possible use of this etymological root in other ancient names, such as Hardanger and Angrivarii.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angeln


Combine that with this: Yngling

"Yngling means descendant of Frey"

Well, we can't have that in the OLB, right?

Lol.

Edited by Abramelin, 11 January 2012 - 05:37 PM.


#9392    Abramelin

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Posted 11 January 2012 - 05:28 PM

View Postcormac mac airt, on 11 January 2012 - 05:15 PM, said:

Nothing really to comment on as there is no meat to the idea. While Thomas Jefferson may indeed descend from Charlemagne through a combination of his paternal and maternal lines, or even solely through his maternal line, there is nothing to validate the claim that he has direct line paternal descent from Charlemagne. Especially since his paternal line has only been traced to 6 or 7 generations before him, so roughly 17th Century, leaving an approximate 900 year gap.

cormac

Heh, I already understood the ones who created the website were a bit over-enthousiastic.

What I expected others here to jump on is the connection between Charlemagne (a "Golar"?) with the Phoenicians... because that is what the OLB suggests (Golar/Phoenicians).


#9393    The Puzzler

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Posted 11 January 2012 - 05:36 PM

I got to do bed but the ankh had me thinking about.... angels of all things, (all these angels, angles, anchors and ankhs) could I find something that might connect the 2? Then it hit me, I have a magazine that shows the 2 combined...

Posted Image

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#9394    Abramelin

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Posted 11 January 2012 - 05:47 PM

View PostThe Puzzler, on 11 January 2012 - 05:36 PM, said:

I got to do bed but the ankh had me thinking about.... angels of all things, (all these angels, angles, anchors and ankhs) could I find something that might connect the 2? Then it hit me, I have a magazine that shows the 2 combined...

Posted Image

Well, we can also say they were called that way because of .... their 'ankles', or maybe even something with 'ink', and so on.

But personally I think Pokorny is closest to the truth.

.

Edited by Abramelin, 11 January 2012 - 06:24 PM.


#9395    cormac mac airt

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Posted 11 January 2012 - 06:17 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 11 January 2012 - 05:28 PM, said:

Heh, I already understood the ones who created the website were a bit over-enthousiastic.

What I expected others here to jump on is the connection between Charlemagne (a "Golar"?) with the Phoenicians... because that is what the OLB suggests (Golar/Phoenicians).

All I'm saying is that 'if' there is a connection between Charlemagne and Phoenicians, then it's not been shown through genetics.

As a side note, doing my own family history/genealogy is what got me interested in genetics to begin with.

cormac

The city and citizens, which you yesterday described to us in fiction, we will now transfer to the world of reality. It shall be the ancient city of Athens, and we will suppose that the citizens whom you imagined, were our veritable ancestors, of whom the priest spoke; they will perfectly harmonise, and there will be no inconsistency in saying that the citizens of your republic are these ancient Athenians. --  Plato's Timaeus

#9396    granpa

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Posted 11 January 2012 - 07:12 PM

there are a lot of ankh-like egyptian symbols.

many are 2 serpents entwined.

to see the heiroglyphs you may need to install a font. (see the first 2 links on the page)

http://religion.wiki...npa/hieroglyphs

http://www.marathon-...Hieroglyph_V028
http://graphemica.com/%F0%93%8E%9B

Posted Image


http://en.wikipedia....od_of_Asclepius

Edited by granpa, 11 January 2012 - 07:20 PM.

I have cooked you a meal, cut it into little pieces, and set it before you  but I'm not going to chew it for you
And no one is forcing you to eat it. If you dont want it then dont eat it.

I am not a big believer in science by combat.
Arguing doesn't establish who is right. Arguing only establishes who is the better arguer.

#9397    Abramelin

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Posted 11 January 2012 - 07:29 PM

But this is about an explanation for the name of the Angels (Anglos).

What do you think is more probable:

-1- that they adopted some Egyptian symbol and maybe changed their tribal name accordingly, or
-2- that they were part of a larger group of tribes who venerated a Nordic fertility god called Yngvi a god after even an ancient Scaninavian royal dinasty called themselves, the Yngling, with Yngling meaning "descendant of Frey"?

Even Tacitus already talked about the "Ingaevones", Germanic tribes living near the North Sea.


++++++++++++++

Frey was called by another name, Yngve; and this name Yngve was considered long after in his race as a name of honour, so that his descendants have since been called Ynglinger.

--

A strophe of the Anglo-Saxon rune poem (c. 1100) records that:

Ing was first among the East Danes seen by men


This may refer to the origins of the worship of Ingui in the tribal areas that Tacitus mentions in his Germania as being populated by the Inguieonnic tribes. A later Danish chronicler lists Ingui was one of three brothers that the Danish tribes descended from. The strophe also states that "then he (Ingui) went back over the waves, his wagon behind him" which could connect Ingui to earlier conceptions of the wagon processions of Nerthus, and the later Scandinavian conceptions of Freyr's wagon journeys.

Ingui is mentioned also in some later Anglo-Saxon literature under varying forms of his name, such as "For what doth Ingeld have to do with Christ", and the variants used in Beowulf to designate the kings as 'leader of the friends of Ing'. The compound Ingui-Frea (OE) and Yngvi-Freyr (ON) likely refer to the connection between the god and the Germanic kings' role as priests during the sacrifices in the pagan period, as Frea and Freyr are titles meaning 'Lord'.

The Swedish royal dynasty was known as the Ynglings from their descent from Yngvi-Freyr. This is supported by Tacitus, who wrote about the Germans: "In their ancient songs, their only way of remembering or recording the past they celebrate an earth-born god Tuisco, and his son Mannus, as the origin of their race, as their founders. To Mannus they assign three sons, from whose names, they say, the coast tribes are called Ingaevones; those of the interior, Herminones; all the rest, Istaevones"
.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frey

.

Edited by Abramelin, 11 January 2012 - 07:46 PM.


#9398    Abramelin

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Posted 11 January 2012 - 08:48 PM

As before mentioned, Frey is also called Yngvi, Yngvifreyr (more correctly Ingv-), and Ingunarfreyr. With these names may be compared Ing in a verse from the Anglo-Saxon: “Ing was first seen of men among the East-Danes, until later when he shaped his course eastward over the waters, and the wagon rolled in his wake.” Just as many given names have been formed from Frey (Frøidis, Frøistein, etc.), so the element Ing (v)- is discoverable in numerous names, such as Ingeborg (Ingibjorg), Yngvild, Inge, Inga, and the like.

http://www.vaidilute...unch-notes.html

Read the whole poem containing the line "Ing was first seen of men among the East Danes (...)" here: http://www.innoxia.com/germaan6.htm . It's right after this line: "Het Oud-Engelse Rune-Gedicht" ("The Old English Rune Poem").



From the OLB:

Wodin, the eldest, lived at Lumkamakia, near the Eemude, in Eastflyland, with his parents. He had once commanded troops. Teunis and Inka were naval warriors, and were just then staying with their father at Aldergamude. When the young warriors had assembled together, they chose Wodin to be their leader or king, and the naval force chose Teunis for their sea-king and Inka for their admiral. The navy then sailed to Denmark, where they took on board Wodin and his valiant host.

--

Thus coasting along, he at length arrived at the colony of Kadik, so called because it was built with a stone quay. Here they bought all kinds of stores, but Tuntia the Burgtmaagd would not allow them to settle there. When they were ready they began to disagree. Teunis wished to sail through the straits to the Mediterranean Sea, and enter the service of the rich Egyptian king, as he had done before, but Inka said he had had enough of all those Finda’s people. Inka thought that perchance some high-lying part of Atland might remain as an island, where he and his people might live in peace. As the two cousins could not agree, Teunis planted a red flag on the shore, and Inka a blue flag. Every man could choose which he pleased, and to their astonishment the greater part of the Finns and Magyars followed Inka, who had objected to serve the kings of Finda’s people. When they had counted the people and divided the ships accordingly, the fleet separated. We shall hear of Teunis afterwards, but nothing more of Inka
.

http://oeralinda.angelfire.com/

Clever way of squeezing Ing/Inga/Inka into the OLB.

But like some ancient gods changed into goddesses in the OLB, the OLB Inka went west while Ing went east (to Denmark). Well, that is what the OLB suggests: west.

.

Edited by Abramelin, 11 January 2012 - 08:55 PM.


#9399    Otharus

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Posted 11 January 2012 - 11:18 PM

For the record, an essential translating error by Ottema (1876), copied by Sandbach (1876) and Raubenheimer (2011).

Context:
The Denamarka were occupied by the Magí (1602 after Aldland had sank) and the Mother didn't want them back, because the people there would already have been bastardised and wasted.

Posted Image

OLB, original manuscript [page 079/ line 18]
THJU MODER NILDET NAVT WÉR.HA

Dutch: Ottema p.111
De Moeder wilde het niet weren

English: Sandbach p.111; Raubenheimer (2nd edition, 2011) p.369
The mother would not prevent it

Correct translation:

Dutch: De Moeder wilde het niet weer (=terug) hebben

English: The Mother didn't want to have it back


#9400    The Puzzler

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 02:01 AM

In time they would name these lands Angle-land, and it is tempting to speculate that the word Angle was derived from, or thought of as a pun on, the name of Ing."[7] According to the Trojan genealogy of Nennius in the Historia Brittonum, Mannus becomes "Alanus" and Ing, his son, becomes Neugio. The three sons of Neugio are named Boganus, Vandalus, and Saxo—from whom came the peoples of the Bogari, the Vandals, and the Saxons and Thuringii.
http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Ingaevones

Sure, maybe Ing and Ang are the same. Ing land. Angle-land.

Maybe Ing though is actually the word angle, fish hook, too. That could have Freyr as a kind of God such as the ankh represents.

Maybe they are angels of later, messengers of God. The ankh (angel) are the messengers of God, the receiver. As granpa pointed out, the Cadeucus itself was meant to receive the messages from God - and Hermes, who held it, was the messenger.

Posted Image

Because I actually think the Gutians that overran Mesopotamia were actually Gothic/Nordic types, c. 2200BC, I can see how it could have easily all come into Sumeria, and then spread into Egypt and surrounds.


Inkishush or Inkicuc (proto-ON 'Ingvi's-son'?) was a Gutian ruler in Sumer from ca. 2135 BC to 2129 BC. Inkishush is the first Gutian ruler mentioned in the Sumerian King List.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inkishush

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#9401    Abramelin

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 02:35 AM

View PostThe Puzzler, on 12 January 2012 - 02:01 AM, said:

In time they would name these lands Angle-land, and it is tempting to speculate that the word Angle was derived from, or thought of as a pun on, the name of Ing."[7] According to the Trojan genealogy of Nennius in the Historia Brittonum, Mannus becomes "Alanus" and Ing, his son, becomes Neugio. The three sons of Neugio are named Boganus, Vandalus, and Saxo—from whom came the peoples of the Bogari, the Vandals, and the Saxons and Thuringii.
http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Ingaevones

Sure, maybe Ing and Ang are the same. Ing land. Angle-land.

Maybe Ing though is actually the word angle, fish hook, too. That could have Freyr as a kind of God such as the ankh represents.

Maybe they are angels of later, messengers of God. The ankh (angel) are the messengers of God, the receiver. As granpa pointed out, the Cadeucus itself was meant to receive the messages from God - and Hermes, who held it, was the messenger.

Posted Image

Because I actually think the Gutians that overran Mesopotamia were actually Gothic/Nordic types, c. 2200BC, I can see how it could have easily all come into Sumeria, and then spread into Egypt and surrounds.


Inkishush or Inkicuc (proto-ON 'Ingvi's-son'?) was a Gutian ruler in Sumer from ca. 2135 BC to 2129 BC. Inkishush is the first Gutian ruler mentioned in the Sumerian King List.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inkishush

You will have a very hard time finding a reliable source for that last sentence in your post; this part I mean: proto-ON 'Ingvi's-son'.

You have quoted it in this thread before, and I say someone just made it up.


#9402    badeskov

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 02:51 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 11 January 2012 - 07:29 PM, said:

But this is about an explanation for the name of the Angels (Anglos).

What do you think is more probable:

-1- that they adopted some Egyptian symbol and maybe changed their tribal name accordingly, or
-2- that they were part of a larger group of tribes who venerated a Nordic fertility god called Yngvi a god after even an ancient Scaninavian royal dinasty called themselves, the Yngling, with Yngling meaning "descendant of Frey"?

Even Tacitus already talked about the "Ingaevones", Germanic tribes living near the North Sea.


++++++++++++++

Frey was called by another name, Yngve; and this name Yngve was considered long after in his race as a name of honour, so that his descendants have since been called Ynglinger.

--

A strophe of the Anglo-Saxon rune poem (c. 1100) records that:

Ing was first among the East Danes seen by men


This may refer to the origins of the worship of Ingui in the tribal areas that Tacitus mentions in his Germania as being populated by the Inguieonnic tribes. A later Danish chronicler lists Ingui was one of three brothers that the Danish tribes descended from. The strophe also states that "then he (Ingui) went back over the waves, his wagon behind him" which could connect Ingui to earlier conceptions of the wagon processions of Nerthus, and the later Scandinavian conceptions of Freyr's wagon journeys.

Ingui is mentioned also in some later Anglo-Saxon literature under varying forms of his name, such as "For what doth Ingeld have to do with Christ", and the variants used in Beowulf to designate the kings as 'leader of the friends of Ing'. The compound Ingui-Frea (OE) and Yngvi-Freyr (ON) likely refer to the connection between the god and the Germanic kings' role as priests during the sacrifices in the pagan period, as Frea and Freyr are titles meaning 'Lord'.

The Swedish royal dynasty was known as the Ynglings from their descent from Yngvi-Freyr. This is supported by Tacitus, who wrote about the Germans: "In their ancient songs, their only way of remembering or recording the past they celebrate an earth-born god Tuisco, and his son Mannus, as the origin of their race, as their founders. To Mannus they assign three sons, from whose names, they say, the coast tribes are called Ingaevones; those of the interior, Herminones; all the rest, Istaevones"
.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frey

.

As a Dane I rather like this turn of the present thread :P That said, I rather like this thread as it is vastly different from most other threads.

Cheers,
Badeskov

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#9403    The Puzzler

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 05:26 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 12 January 2012 - 02:35 AM, said:

You will have a very hard time finding a reliable source for that last sentence in your post; this part I mean: proto-ON 'Ingvi's-son'.

You have quoted it in this thread before, and I say someone just made it up.
Possibly, but it's not a new idea. Assyriologist Julius Oppert first opened up the can of worms. http://en.wikipedia....i/Julius_Oppert

Posted Image
http://aleximreh.wor...f-goti-in-iran/

The mere suggestion that these Aryans may have been in Sumeria was so destructive to Semitic theories, it has been brushed under the carpet.

You, Abe, you say something should be found from the OLB, everything can be found...

Next to nothing is known about their origins, as no "Gutian" artifacts have surfaced from that time; little information is gleaned from the contemporary sources.[4] Nothing is known of their language either, apart from those Sumerian king names, and that it was distinct from other known languages of the region (such as Sumerian, Akkadian, Hurrian, Hittite and Elamite).

How convenient (for the anti-Goths were Gutians crowd) NOTHING can be found from the Gutians, no artifacts, nothing.  :ph34r:

Edited by The Puzzler, 12 January 2012 - 05:31 AM.

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#9404    Knul

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 06:16 AM

View PostOtharus, on 11 January 2012 - 11:18 PM, said:

For the record, an essential translating error by Ottema (1876), copied by Sandbach (1876) and Raubenheimer (2011).

Context:
The Denamarka were occupied by the Magí (1602 after Aldland had sank) and the Mother didn't want them back, because the people there would already have been bastardised and wasted.

Posted Image

OLB, original manuscript [page 079/ line 18]
THJU MODER NILDET NAVT WÉR.HA

Dutch: Ottema p.111
De Moeder wilde het niet weren

English: Sandbach p.111; Raubenheimer (2nd edition, 2011) p.369
The mother would not prevent it

Correct translation:

Dutch: De Moeder wilde het niet weer (=terug) hebben

English: The Mother didn't want to have it back

I think Dutch weer (again, back) = whither. So the sentence would read: thju moder nildet wither ha.On the other hand Dutch weren = wera. Are there other possibilities ? I think of the meaning [ge]weren = ergens mee instemmen, akkoord gaan, Eng. to agree, German gewaehren, billigen, eiverstanden sein.

Edited by Knul, 12 January 2012 - 06:28 AM.


#9405    The Puzzler

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 06:58 AM

Here's wera in different forms in the Frisian dictionary.

wer - ha may become wera

wer-a (1) 1 und häufiger?, war-a (2), afries., sw. M. (n): nhd. Besitzer; ne. owner;
Hw.: s. *war-a (1); E.: s. germ. *warjan, sw. V., wehren, abhalten, schützen; idg.
*øer- (5), V., schließen, decken, schützen, retten, wehren, abwehren, Pokorny
1160; L.: Hh 127b
wer-a (2) 1, war-a (3), afries., sw. V. (1): nhd. Gewähr leisten, einstehen; ne. be
liable; Hw.: vgl. ahd. werÐn* (1); Q.: E, AA 102; E.: s. germ. *wera, Sb., Vertrag,
Bündnis; vgl. idg. *øer- (11), *øerý-, Sb., Freundlichkeit, Pokorny 1165; L.: Hh
127b, Rh 1136a, AA 102

wer-a (3) 16, war-a (4), afries., sw. V. (1): nhd. verteidigen, abwehren; ne. defend;
ÜG.: lat. dÐfendere AB (94, 6); Vw.: s. bi-, *of-; Hw.: s. wer-e-re; vgl. got.
warjan*, an. verja (4), ae. w’rian (1), as. werian* (2), ahd. werien* (1); Q.: E, R,
W, H, B, AB (94, 6), AA 102; E.: germ. *warjan, sw. V., wehren, abhalten,
schützen; idg. *øer- (5), V., schließen, decken, schützen, retten, wehren, abwehren,
Pokorny 1160; W.: nfries. werren, V., verteidigen, abwehren; L.: Hh 127b, Rh
1136b, AA 102
wÐr-a (1) 6, afries., sw. V. (1): nhd. beweisen; ne. prove; Hw.: s. wÐr-ia; vgl. ahd.
wõren*; Q.: R, W, S; E.: germ. *wÐrjan, *wÚrjan, sw. V., beweisen; s. idg. *øer-
(11), *øerý-. Sb., Freundlichkeit, Pokorny 1165; L.: Hh 127b, Rh 1136b
wÐr-a (2), afries., Konj., Präp.: Vw.: s. wÐr-e
http://www.koeblerge...ch/afries-W.pdf

I could see it as 'the mother would not BE LIABLE'.

She wasn't going to be liable in taking them back.

"The agony and the irony, they're killing me"
Flagpole Sitta - Harvey Danger