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[Archived]Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood


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#9436    The Puzzler

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 04:02 AM

Abe, I think these finds are super interesting, maybe the tide is turning...

In 2005 two professors of archaeology, Kristian Kristiansen, University of Gothenburg, and Thomas B. Larsson, University of Umeå in Sweden, published a book entitled “The Rise of Bronze Age Society” (Cambridge University Press) in which they argue, based on a vast amount of evidence, that the rich and spectacular Early Bronze Age of Denmark and Scandinavia can only be explained in terms of a contact between the Minoan-Mycenaean civilization and Scandinavia.

They write (pp. 235-236): “Mycenaean traders settled in western Mediterranean and established direct trading connections with southern Germany, and thus linked up with the network that reached Jutland and the amber producing areas. Recent archaeological discoveries have completely changed our perception of Mycenaean presence in this part of Europe”. And “a genuine Mycenaean find appeared in a Middle Bronze Age fortified settlement in Bavaria: a gold diadem made of gold foil of the type found in the shaft graves at Mycenae, together with some raw amber.
(…) Mycenaean and south German and even south Scandinavian chiefs had direct personal contacts. (…) Moreover, it makes it easier to understand how east Mediterranean prestige goods, such as folding stools and flange-hilted swords of Mycenaean inspiration, could be transmitted so directly to southern Scandinavia. But why this region – more than other regions in Europe – adopted a Mycenaean cultural idiom as basis for the new Nordic Bronze Age society remains yet to be explained.” And p. 249: “However, foreign origins were most consciously demonstrated in the formation of the Nordic Bronze Age Culture from 1500 BC onwards, basing itself on a Minoan/Mycenaean template.”
The authors also point to the fact that a sign or symbol akin to the Hittite hieroglyph meaning “divine” is among the rock carvings at Fossum in Sweden, associated with images of what could be representations of divinities (p. 342).

Kongsberg could easily be reached from the sea by boats sailing up the Oslo Fjord and Drammen Fjord to Vestfossen. All the way along this route, from Drammen to Vestfossen and Kongsberg, there are big mining areas of other ores, like copper and silver bearing galena (lead), leading on to the Kongsberg mining area.

Minoans, having reached Kongsberg, most likely around 1700 BC, at the heyday of Minoan civilization, when silver could be traded for its double weight in gold in Egypt, and leaving a message on a cult place there, would probably have thanked the gods for what ever riches they had come for. The only reason for their coming to Kongsberg would have been the area’s richness in easily accessible native silver.

The reading of the Linear A inscription at Kongsberg
The inscription on the rock face, “wetuyu piti”, identified, read and translated by Dr Aartun, corresponds, according to the phonetic development as clarified by Dr. Aartun, to modern Arabic “watiy-un / wati’-un” (wetuyu < *watuyu) from the Semitic root WTY // WT), meaning “soft, malleable”, and “baht” (piti < *bihti) from the Semitic root BHT, meaning “unmixed, free from admixture, pure”. Thus the two words “wetuyu piti” can be interpreted as a cult inscription meaning “(the) soft/malleable (and) pure/free from admixture”, probably alluding to the silver in the area, as evidenced by the surrounding mines, and left there in thankfulness to the gods and as a pray for finding more.

Native wire silver is soft, malleable, unmixed and free from admixture, or pure.

http://jarnaes.wordp...-linear-a/  The same link Abe gave.

Knul: It does say how Dr Aartun translated the characters.

In an mmm bop it's gone...

#9437    Mallaliak

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 09:03 AM

View PostOtharus, on 13 January 2012 - 11:17 PM, said:

Välkommen till this threat, Mallaliak. I have been hoping that some day a Scandinavian would join.
I learned a bit of Svedish many years ago, and that is one of the reasons why I came to appreciate the language (whether authentic or not) of the OLB, as it seems to be between Frisian, Dutch, English, German and the Scandic languages. If it would not be authentic, it would at least be a great (in fact an unbelievably great) reconstruction.

I look forward to your contributions.

Here's a former post that you might find interesting:

I took and read the quotes, but this early at the day I saw nothing of the text that would prove it authentic to me. Could I read the entire texts? No, but I could snap up words here and there.

The thing is, the Scandic languages, Dutch and German are similar to each other as it is. When I was studying German in school, it is became quite obvious. It was such a obvious thing to many of us, our teacher could often joke "If you don't know the right word for something, think of the swedish one and try to make it sound German."

Would it be correct then? No, but it would be understandable.

But taking a few looks at the Dutch, Frisian and English language, they are considered all west germanic languages. (Scandinavian ones are north germanic languages). They will look similar to each other if you can understand two or more of the alternatives.

"Actually I would consider predator detection a major driving factor, being eaten has major disadvantages to spreading your genes." - Mattshark

#9438    Otharus

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 09:15 AM

View PostThe Puzzler, on 14 January 2012 - 02:08 AM, said:

Maybe you are overestimating yourself, why use a Dutch word when these words can be found in the Frisian dictionary?

nildet navt wer.ha

nilla is 'not want' - this word is also willa as per the Fris. Dictionary or has Ottema really made an error by substituting w for n?

det is ded = deed, fact, fine, injury

nildet = not want injury.

navt is naut/nawet = nothing, not (nor)

wer.ha is wera = be liable.

(the mother) nildet navt wer.ha = the mother not wanted injury nor (to) be liable.
Most amuzing, yes.

You're almost as good as Google Translate.


#9439    Otharus

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 09:37 AM

View PostMallaliak, on 14 January 2012 - 09:03 AM, said:

When I was studying German in school, it is became quite obvious. It was such a obvious thing to many of us, our teacher could often joke "If you don't know the right word for something, think of the swedish one and try to make it sound German."
When I was in Sweden and tried to speak Swedish, I did the same.

I guessed that "I have forgotten" (dutch: "Ik ben vergeten") would be "Jag har forjetad" (don't know spelling, only learned to listen and speak).

This appeared to be very oldfashioned Swedish, as you nowadays say "Jag har glömt".


#9440    Knul

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 12:22 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 14 January 2012 - 12:16 AM, said:

It's not the professor who discovered it:

-----------

Did Crete have prehistoric connections with Norway in the Bronze Age?

A Minoan message on a granite slab in Norway.

Johan Jarnaes, a citizen of the small Norwegian town of Kongsberg, is the one making this assertion. Kongsberg is situated 80 km to the west of the Norwegian capital of Oslo. Johan Jarnaes holds university degrees in history, archaeology and languages. On a late evening in autumn 1987 Johan was out for a walk in the outlying fields surrounding the small town of Kongsberg. Due to the low sunlight he discovered some strange, unknown, signs on a flat granite slab. The slab was part of a farmyard belonging to a friend of his. Johan had been on the spot many times, but neither he nor his friend, the owner, had seen these signs before. The signs were revealed only because Johan happened to pass there just at the moment the sun was setting, thus throwing a beam of light onto the slab.

After the slab had been cleaned, some engraved characters became visible.

Jarnaes found the characters sensational since they reminded him at first sight of characters from the classical Greek alphabet. Furthermore he discovered 12 circular cup shaped marks with a diameter of 4 to 8 cm as well as a drawing that apparently was an illustration of a boat! There were also other engravings on the granite slab. The engraving techniques indicated that they had originated in various different eras. In addition to the previously mentioned characters, signs and drawings, Johan discovered an even more peculiar one which had no resemblance to any of the others. The lower part Johan later recognised as a "bag for water or wine". The strangest was, however, that on the outside of the "bag" a horizontal parallel wavelike drawing was visible. Jarnaes came to the conclusion that the wavelike drawing was apparently meant to describe water! On the top of the bag there was an even stranger sign that reminded him of the letter V in the Latin alphabet. The most mysterious in this whole figure was that the three parallel wavelike lines were identical with the ancient Egyptian hieroglyphic sign for water!

The boat was, for Jarnaes, a familiar drawing on many granite slabs in south-western Norway as well as in the Swedish county of "Bohuslan". The carving technique was very similar to the above mentioned engravings from Kongsberg. Consequently Jarnaes could determine the time period to be the bronze age,  1500 – 2000 BC.

The enigma.

Jarnaes was most surprised. What could these inscriptions possibly mean? They reminded him of characters in the ancient Greek alphabet, but there were also clear indications that the characters were almost a 1000 years older. The origin of the Greek alphabet can be determined with great accuracy to 750 BC.

What happened at Kongsberg before 1623?

The town was founded in 1623 because a shepherd found a large lump of silver. The silver mining led to the rapid growth of Kongsberg which soon became a town of 10,000 inhabitants. By 1958 the silver load had been exhausted and mining was discontinued. In accordance with "the official opinion", the town of Kongsberg had had no history before 1623. This opinion was, however, not shared by Jarnaes and hisfriends in the "Kongsberg Archaeological Society". For more than 30 years the society has carried out its own research in order to establish the fact that the town did have a history before 1623. Amongst Jarnaes' friends were experts in many fields, such as languages, history, archaeology, geology, and astronomy. Jarnaes has summarised the results of this research in a book.

Linear A characters of the writing system belonging to the Minoan civilisation of Crete!

Jarnaes' idea that the characters could belong to the classical Greek alphabet could not be correct because they were all consonants, whilst the Greek language was particularly rich in vowels. The findings on the granite slab at the farm
"Langkjern" were made in 1987. The enigma remained unsolved until the Norwegian linguist; Kjell Aartun came to Kongsberg in 1994. He is internationally well known in scientific linguistic circles. Amongst others, Kjell Aartun has received a prize from "The Norwegian Academy of Science and Letters" for his research on ancient languages of theMediterranean and theMiddle East. Aartun determined that the characters belonged to the Minoan writing system Linear A, fromCrete.


http://araenil.wordp...s-crete-norway/

http://people.ku.edu...ounger/LinearA/

http://jarnaes.wordpress.com/

Here are some comments on the Kongberg Battle: http://araenil.wordp...s-crete-norway/in which is said that the characters are no Linear A but normal Latin characters.This prof. Aartun is someone like dr. Ottema.

Edited by Knul, 14 January 2012 - 12:28 PM.


#9441    The Puzzler

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 02:06 PM

View PostOtharus, on 14 January 2012 - 09:15 AM, said:

Most amuzing, yes.

You're almost as good as Google Translate.
What's that supposed to mean? Leave the sarcasm to those who do it best why don't you?


Write the sentence translated into English the exact way it is read in the OLB.

(the Mother) nildet - navt - wer.ha
(the Mother) not wanted injury - nor - liability

In an mmm bop it's gone...

#9442    Otharus

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 02:43 PM

View PostThe Puzzler, on 14 January 2012 - 02:06 PM, said:

(the Mother) nildet - navt - wer.ha
(the Mother) not wanted injury - nor - liability
NILDET = NE WILDE ET = not wanted it

Another fragment where WÉR HA is used (without the dot) is page 153, line 10.

There it also means "have back".


#9443    The Puzzler

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 02:51 PM

View PostOtharus, on 14 January 2012 - 02:43 PM, said:

NILDET = NE WILDE ET = not wanted it

Another fragment where WÉR HA is used (without the dot) is page 153, line 10.

There it also means "have back".
So, you have?

the Mother nildet - navt - wer.ha

the Mother (ne wilde et) not wanted it - then what for navt? - then have back for wer.ha.

the Mother not wanted it - navt? - have back

Edit: To have not for navt - you have: the Mother not wanted it not have back.

That's makes alot of sense, not.

---------------
I edited this post back to this, will do a second one.

Edited by The Puzzler, 14 January 2012 - 03:39 PM.

In an mmm bop it's gone...

#9444    Abramelin

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 03:44 PM

View PostKnul, on 14 January 2012 - 12:22 PM, said:

Here are some comments on the Kongberg Battle: http://araenil.wordp...s-crete-norway/in which is said that the characters are no Linear A but normal Latin characters.This prof. Aartun is someone like dr. Ottema.

I think you are jumping to conclusions here.

This is from the Battle part:

”The Battle of Kongsberg”

Here is a brief summary:

In connection with the “official silver mining of 1623” , a special ”museum of silver mining” was established at Kongsberg. The chief of this museum had spent his life writing “The history of silver mining in Kongsberg”.  If Jarnaes’ claim could be proven, his “life’s work” would totally disintegrate. If, in addition to this, evidence could be found that the Minoans came to Kongsberg for silver, and that the characters on the granite slab were Linear A, the catastrophe would be
complete and the old chap would have made a complete fool of himself! The resistance was so severe that it lasted right up to 2007, until the case came under further scrutiny. Jarnaes never gave up; he continued to send e-mails with pictures and even videos to experts in other countries. In 2007 one of these experts became involved and started further research. Costs were covered from foreign sources! One of the tests that the Norwegians had neglected to undertake, in all this time, was the obvious Radiocarbon 14 dating! The very first test blew “the 1623 limit” miles away!

I am not able to tell anything more at this time, because the research is ongoing. However I have sufficient information to be convinced that Jarnaes will come out of the battle with flying colours! The loser is the Norwegian archaological establishment. They have sabotaged progress on one of the most interesting archaeological sites in the history of Norwegian Archaological science for more than 20 years, for no other motive than to protect a colleague! This case will, in due time, force them to rewrite history
!

http://araenil.wordp...s-crete-norway/


And this is what you read:

Prehistoric mining at Kongsberg.

(...)

The young man became very enthusiastic with what he saw. He could establish that the incised mark indicated that the carving was most likely from the Bronze Age. The local newspaper reporter, who was there at the same time, printed the news in the next day’s newspaper, referring to the young man by name. The very next day an extremely angry professor from Oslo arrived on the spot; he was the senior person in the Archaeological and Historical Institute. He demanded that the newspaper reverse all they had written the day before. He determined, there and then, that there were no such things as Bronze Age discoveries or prehistoric mining at Kongsberg. Everything that was printed in the newspaper “was caused by the inexperience of his young assistant!” The Minoan signs were letters of the Latin alphabet and what Jarnaes claimed were prehistoric mines had nothing to do with mining whatsoever!



From what I understand this professor was a bit 'over the top' with his fierce reaction.

===

Btw, Menno: you always manage to 'kill' any link you post: try to always add a space after a link, or many times it will end up dead.


.

Edited by Abramelin, 14 January 2012 - 03:44 PM.


#9445    Abramelin

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 04:31 PM

There's not much to be found about those Kongsberg inscriptions and Aartun.

But here's something related:


72   Date: 2002-05-28 22:16:10
Örjan Svensson ( orjan.svensson@mbox300.swipnet.se / http://home.swipnet.se/~w-93783/) wrote:

> "...we are unconvinced that you indeed can see any semitic script at all on the Blekinge stones."

What I claim is that the runes of the Old Futhark seen for example on the oldest runic inscriptions of Blekinge ARE Semitic.
Further, there are also to be found for example on the Björketorp stone other signs, namely Minoan linear A letters and hieroglyphs, which also are Semitic.

> "...you're not willing to come up with the raw, untranslated semitic texts you supposedly saw, only your own interpretations of them."

False. The runes are covered in great detail here on the web, and I have fully explained also my view of the Minoan signs as well in my book "De blekingska runornas hemligheter".

> "If it was cultish, the activities should point upwards to the world of the gods, forewards to the next generation, outwards to the community."

Not necessarily so in all aspects of the cult. Who said that all aspects of the cult were recorded in the relatively short runic texts?

> "Aartun's poetry does not have this dimension, it is all about genitalia, and is thus unconvincing as proof of the existence of any ancient fertility cult."

The proofs do not lie in the presence or absence of some particular dimension in the texts. The proofs are linguistic in nature and are also founded in gematria and in comparisons, litteral as well as conceptual, with known ancient Semitic texts from the Middle East. By the way I can inform you that there exist several ancient erotic texts, written in Semitic language, which have been found in the eastern Mediterranean area. Also you should consider the following quote from G. Vorberg: "Erotikken er nøkkelen til forståelsen av den gamle verden og dens kultur". ("Eroticism is the key to the understanding of the old world and its culture.") This statement was made by G. Vorberg after he had studied ancient art extensively.

> "However, even on this point, the sheer irrationality of Aartun's pseudoscience has yours beaten hands down: many of Aartun's poems have in fact no sexual content at all; this is provided only in Aartun's interpretations of his own poems."

Wrong again. Take for example Tjurkö Bracteat 1, which I translate as "In life's old age, at the appointed time, then our joy rises thick and high at last." This could very well be interpreted as non-sexual. Maybe this text is only speaking about increased happiness in old age. I can however agree that the sexual content is more expressly clear generally in the Blekinge inscriptions than in the runic inscriptions located in Norway and treated by Aartun. But to speak about someone's hands being "beaten down" in conjunction with this is of course complete rubbish, and has nothing to do with the matter.

> "Like Aartun, of course, you do not accept that one can agree that there may be some undocumented link between ancient semitic and indo-european cultures without thus proving every aspect of your interpretations of the texts you say that you see."

False. I allow you to be free to agree on whatever you want.

> "Really: if you're Swedish, you should be able to guess what the headlines in an Icelandic newspaper mean. And that language is no more archaic than the newest runic insciptions; indeed, there are runic inscriptions in Scandinavia that show more modern linguistic developments than any Icelandic newspaper does."

Yes, this may be so. However, I am not dealing with the newest runic inscriptions. I am dealing with some of the OLDEST ones, which are very different from the newest.

> "And the runic inscriptions that everyone but you and Aartun see, show the older forms of the language, stopping around the year 200. I don't see where there's anything unacceptable in this theory; I just plain don't see the need to postulate the existence of semitic fertility cults that saw a need to carve pornographic poetry in stone. Always believe the more likely theory."

Yes, do so. Believe in the more likely theory.
If you think that for example "niuhAborumkA
niuhagestAumkA hAþuwolAfkgAfjA hArAwolAfkmAgeAjusnuhwe
hidekrunonofelAArekAhederAgAnoronok
herAmAlAsAkArAgeuwelAdudsAþAetolAbAriutiþ AruA" (Stentoften) sounds like an old form of Icelandic, then you are free to believe so, but I am afraid that you have a severe lack of evidence for backing up such an unfounded belief.


http://home.swipnet..../guestbook.html


#9446    Otharus

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 04:45 PM

View PostThe Puzzler, on 14 January 2012 - 02:51 PM, said:

So, you have?

View PostOtharus, on 11 January 2012 - 11:18 PM, said:

For the record, an essential translating error by Ottema (1876), copied by Sandbach (1876) and Raubenheimer (2011).

Context:
The Denamarka were occupied by the Magí (1602 after Aldland had sank) and the Mother didn't want them back, because the people there would already have been bastardised and wasted.

Posted Image

OLB, original manuscript [page 079/ line 18]
THJU MODER NILDET NAVT WÉR.HA

Dutch: Ottema p.111
De Moeder wilde het niet weren

English: Sandbach p.111; Raubenheimer (2nd edition, 2011) p.369
The mother would not prevent it

Correct translation:

Dutch: De Moeder wilde het niet weer (=terug) hebben

English: The Mother didn't want to have it back

Quote

Edit: To have not for navt - you have: the Mother not wanted it not have back.

That's makes alot of sense, not.
NE ... NAVT is a most common construction in the OLB to make a sentence negative (like French: ne ... pas).

Edited by Otharus, 14 January 2012 - 04:47 PM.


#9447    Abramelin

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 04:51 PM

Yes, I agree with Otharus: even today a socalled 'double negative' is common in many languages.


#9448    Otharus

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 05:05 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 14 January 2012 - 04:51 PM, said:

Yes, I agree with Otharus: even today a socalled 'double negative' is common in many languages.
Thanks


#9449    Abramelin

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 09:59 PM

Minos is the Cretan word for "king",[3] or indeed, to take a euhemerist position, the name of a particular king that was subsequently used as a title. There is a name in Minoan Linear A mi-nu-te that may be related to Minos. According to La Marle's reading of Linear A,[4], which have been heavily criticised as arbitrary [5] we should read mwi-nu ro-ja (Minos the king) on a Linear A tablet. The royal title ro-ja is read on several documents, including on stone libation tables from the sanctuaries, where it follows the name of the main god, Asirai (the equivalent of Sanskrit Asura, and of Avestan Ahura). La Marle suggests that the name mwi-nu (Minos) is expected to mean 'ascetic' as Sanskrit muni, and fits this explanation to the legend about Minos sometimes living in caves on Crete.[6] If royal succession in Minoan Crete descended matrilinearly— from the queen to her firstborn daughter— the queen's husband would have become the Minos, or war chief. Some scholars see a connection between Minos and the names of other ancient founder-kings, such as Menes of Egypt, Mannus of Germany, and Manu of India,[7][8] and even with Meon of Phrygia and Lydia (after him named Maeonia), Mizraim of Egypt in the Book of Genesis and the Canaanite deity Baal Meon.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minos

===

min-n-e 6 = reconciliation
http://www.koeblerge...h/ne-afries.pdf

===


Menno:
Friese naam: koosvorm, afgeleid van het Germaanse woord 'Meine' of 'Mein' (soms nog meer verkort tot 'men-') wat een verkorting is van het woord 'megin-' dat 'kracht' betekent
.

Translation:

Menno:
Frisian name: nickname, derived from the German word "Meine" or "Mein" (sometimes even more shortened to "men") which is an abbreviation for the word "megin" which means "power".


http://www.heiligen....INE~ABMENNO.pdf

=

Babynaam: Minne
Geslacht:  Mannelijk/Vrouwelijk
Oorsprong: Fries
Betekenis Minne: Minne is een Friese naam met als betekenis "de sterke" of "de beschermer". Minne betekent in Duitsland "liefde".


http://www.babynaam....?babynaam=Minne

Translation:

Babayname: Minne
Gender: Male/Female
Origin: Frisian
Meaning Minne: Minne is a Frisian name meaning "the strong" or "the protector". In Germany Minne means "love" [and also in Dutch, btw: "minnen" is "to love"]


===

mind (n.)
O.E. gemynd "memory, thinking, intention," P.Gmc. *ga-menthijan (cf. Goth. muns "thought," munan "to think;" O.N. minni "mind;" Ger. minne, originally "memory, loving memory"), from PIE base *men- "think, remember, have one's mind aroused" (cf. Skt. matih "thought," munih "sage, seer;" Gk. memona "I yearn," mania "madness," mantis "one who divines, prophet, seer;" L. mens "mind, understanding, reason," memini "I remember," mentio "remembrance;" Lith. mintis "thought, idea," O.C.S. mineti "to believe, think," Rus. pamjat "memory"). "Memory" is one of the oldest senses, now almost obsolete except in old expressions such as bear in mind, call to mind. Phrase time out of mind is attested from early 15c.

http://www.etymonlin...searchmode=none

++++

Edited by Abramelin, 14 January 2012 - 10:14 PM.


#9450    Abramelin

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 10:19 PM

View PostThe Puzzler, on 14 January 2012 - 04:02 AM, said:

Abe, I think these finds are super interesting, maybe the tide is turning...

<skip>


The tides will be turning as soon as the OLB script turns up in inscriptions in Kongsberg (or elsewhere).

If true, it was Linear A, and thus nothing even remotely similar to the OLB script.

Even soon after the "OLB event" (2194 BC) the OLB script was turned into something totally different, according to the OLB.

But even at that time the Phoenicians still used a script that was very readable, even up to this day and age. A clean, clear , and very readable script.

Something is not right here...

The OLB wants us to believe that people first used something resembling Latin script (a lot), and then invented something resembling Chinese pictograms.... because people didn't understand the OLB characters were made using the Yule wheel, and because they wanted to 'hide' things.

If you believe that, you will also believe there is a 100 dollar bill lying on the surface of Pluto.

.






.

Edited by Abramelin, 14 January 2012 - 11:02 PM.