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[Archived]Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood


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#9466    The Puzzler

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 06:18 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 17 January 2012 - 01:40 AM, said:

Jeesh, I have used my knowledge of Old/Middle Dutch to translate whole sentences from the OLB.

How could I if these languages were not related somehow?
I don't think they are not related, I think Dutch in any form, is too late to be used as a base for words in the OLB. So is English.

In an mmm bop it's gone...

#9467    Otharus

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 07:45 AM

View PostThe Puzzler, on 17 January 2012 - 06:18 AM, said:

I don't think they are not related, I think Dutch in any form, is too late to be used as a base for words in the OLB. So is English.
I agree that Dutch and English have not been used as a base for OLB-words, but both languages carry traces of the OLB-language (with its many spelling varieties).

The same can be said for Frisian, German, the Scandinavian languages and even (less obviously) the south-European languages.


#9468    Otharus

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 08:05 AM

It is an interesting observation that "again" and "against" are related to "wér", "weer", "with", "wither", "wether", "weder, "wieder" etc., but in the four fragments I gave , "WÉR" means "back" or "again".

Here they are for the last time.

[067/22]
WILST WÉR FRY WÉSA ÀND VNDER MINA RÉD ÀND HODA LÉVA. TJÀN UT THEN. WÉPNE SKILUN THI WRDA. ÀND IK SKIL WÁKA O.ER THI.
Do you want to be free again... (etc.)

[079/18]
THJU MODER NILDET NAVT WÉR.HA
The Mother didn't want to have it back

[079/19]
IK SJA NÉN FRÉSE AN SINA WÉPNE MEN WEL VMBE THA SKÉNLANDER WÉR TO NIMMANDE THRVCH DAM HJA BASTERED ÀND VRDÉREN SIND
I see no fear in his weapons, but in taking the Skénlander back, because they are bastardised and wasted.

[153/09]
THÉRVMBE NIL HI NÉNE MODER WÉR
Therefore he doesn't want to have a mother back

Edited by Otharus, 17 January 2012 - 08:41 AM.


#9469    Abramelin

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 09:15 AM

View PostThe Puzzler, on 17 January 2012 - 06:18 AM, said:

I don't think they are not related, I think Dutch in any form, is too late to be used as a base for words in the OLB. So is English.

The dictionary you say you use is the Old Frisian dictionary, and that dictionary is based on Frisian law texts from the 12/13th century and onwards.

And that time period is where Middle and Old Dutch come from.

Now, with too late you mean too young to be used for the OLB because the OLB uses a 4000 years old language.

You have any dictionaries of a (northern) European language that old?

.

Edited by Abramelin, 17 January 2012 - 09:16 AM.


#9470    Otharus

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 09:44 AM

View PostAlewyn, on 13 July 2010 - 12:54 PM, said:

In my book I also came to the conclusion that "Phrygia" was most likely a derivative of "Frya" but I did not know about the Bruges and this Egyptian king.

View PostOtharus, on 18 December 2010 - 06:28 AM, said:

Earlier in the OLB/Tsunami thread, it was suggested that the PHRYGIANS may have been the FRYAS of the OLB.

In this context, it's noteworthy that Lucius Apuleius (Metamorphoses, ca. 180 AD) calls them "PRIMIGENII",
translated as "first-born of mankind" by E.J. Kenney (1998).

PRIMIGENII PHRYGES PESSINVNTIAM DEVM MATREM

The Phrygians, first-born of mankind, call me the Pessinuntian Mother of the gods

It is significant that the term "frieze" (in architecture/ art) - in Dutch: "fries" - is accepted to be derived from "opus phrygium" (Phrygian work).

http://oxforddiction...finition/frieze

frieze

Pronunciation: /friːz/
noun
a broad horizontal band of sculpted or painted decoration, especially on a wall near the ceiling:
the horsemen of the Parthenon frieze

figurative
the coastline is a frieze of cliffs
- a horizontal paper strip mounted on a wall to give an effect similar to that of a sculpted or painted frieze:
a wallpaper frieze with chickens on it
- Architecture the part of an entablature between the architrave and the cornice.

Origin:
mid 16th century: from French frise, from medieval Latin frisium, variant of frigium, from Latin Phrygium (opus) '(work) of Phrygia'



#9471    Otharus

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 09:50 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 17 January 2012 - 09:15 AM, said:

Now, with too late you mean too young to be used for the OLB because the OLB uses a 4000 years old language.
If OLB is what it says it is, it's a 13th century copy of a 9th century copy of older original(s).
The first version would have been compiled in the 6th century BC.

That is ca. 2600 BP.

It is possible that the language had not changed much between 4200 BP and 2600 BP (as the Fryans liked to believe), but we can only guess if that is true.

Edited by Otharus, 17 January 2012 - 09:56 AM.


#9472    Abramelin

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 10:05 AM

View PostOtharus, on 17 January 2012 - 09:50 AM, said:

If OLB is what it says it is, it's a 13th century copy of a 9th century copy of older original(s).
The first version would have been compiled in the 6th century BC.

That is ca. 2600 BP.

It is possible that the language had not changed much between 4200 BP and 2600 BP (as the Fryans liked to believe), but we can only guess if that is true.

OK, yes, 2600 years old at minimum.

But Puzzler says she only uses Old Frisian to translate, and that is from dictionaries that are compiled based on words used in the 12/13th century AD.


#9473    Abramelin

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 10:08 AM

View PostOtharus, on 17 January 2012 - 09:44 AM, said:

It is significant that the term "frieze" (in architecture/ art) - in Dutch: "fries" - is accepted to be derived from "opus phrygium" (Phrygian work).

http://oxforddiction...finition/frieze

frieze

Pronunciation: /friːz/
noun
a broad horizontal band of sculpted or painted decoration, especially on a wall near the ceiling:
the horsemen of the Parthenon frieze

figurative
the coastline is a frieze of cliffs
- a horizontal paper strip mounted on a wall to give an effect similar to that of a sculpted or painted frieze:
a wallpaper frieze with chickens on it
- Architecture the part of an entablature between the architrave and the cornice.

Origin:
mid 16th century: from French frise, from medieval Latin frisium, variant of frigium, from Latin Phrygium (opus) '(work) of Phrygia'


You could also have added this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frigg

But if Phrygian is (related to) Frisian, then try to translate these texts:

ates : arkiaevais : akenanogavos : midai : lavagtaei : vanaktei : edaes

baba : memevais : proitavos : kFiyanaveyos : sikeneman : edaes

mate.r.[--] (...) atatasm.?onokaua


..and so on.
http://titus.fkidg1....ygian/phryg.htm

More here:
http://www.maravot.com/Phrygian.html

--

http://en.wikipedia....rygian_language
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phrygia


#9474    Otharus

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 10:11 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 17 January 2012 - 10:05 AM, said:

But Puzzler says she only uses Old Frisian to translate, and that is from dictionaries that are compiled based on words used in the 12/13th century AD.
I agree that Oldfrisian dictionaries (although helpful) are not enough to translate the OLB.

Knowledge of at least the Dutch language - and preferably some other European languages - is essential.


#9475    Otharus

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 10:45 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 17 January 2012 - 10:08 AM, said:

But if Phrygian is (related to) Frisian, then try to translate these texts:
[...]
Those fragments from the region of Turkey (considered to be Phrygian) are not in the same language as the OLB.

Unfortunately it's not that simple...

I don't know.


#9476    Abramelin

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 11:08 AM

View PostOtharus, on 17 January 2012 - 10:45 AM, said:

Those fragments from the region of Turkey (considered to be Phrygian) are not in the same language as the OLB.

Unfortunately it's not that simple...

I don't know.

Nah, it's indeed not that simple.

So digging up a name - Phrygia(n) - that sounds similar to Frigg/Freyja - and thus trying to hint at a connection with Frya/OLB is not the way to do it.

If you read this site about Phrygia/Phrygian - http://www.maravot.com/Phrygian.html - than you will now that it is ONLY the name that is similar to Frya/Frigg.

++++

EDIT:

This site also has a lot of info on Phrygian: http://www.palaeolex...4&Language_ID=2

.

Edited by Abramelin, 17 January 2012 - 11:25 AM.


#9477    The Puzzler

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 12:46 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 17 January 2012 - 10:08 AM, said:

You could also have added this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frigg

But if Phrygian is (related to) Frisian, then try to translate these texts:

ates : arkiaevais : akenanogavos : midai : lavagtaei : vanaktei : edaes

baba : memevais : proitavos : kFiyanaveyos : sikeneman : edaes

mate.r.[--] (...) atatasm.?onokaua


..and so on.
http://titus.fkidg1....ygian/phryg.htm

More here:
http://www.maravot.com/Phrygian.html

--

http://en.wikipedia....rygian_language
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phrygia
I'll have a go later... :w00t:

Thought this was interesting reference to possibly Frya or at least the word was in the language.

*čiθra-: "origin".[45] The word appears in *čiθrabṛzana- (med.) "exalting his linage", *čiθramiθra- (med.) "having mithraic origin", *čiθraspāta- (med.) "having a brilliant army", etc.[46]
Farnah: Divine glory; (Avestan: khvarənah)
Paridaiza: Paradise, (as in Pardis پردیس)
Spaka- : The word is Median and means "dog".[47] Herodotus identifies "Spaka-" (Gk. "σπάχα" - female dog) as Median rather than Persian.[48] The word is still used in modern Iranian languages including Talyshi.
vazṛka-: "great" (as Modern Persian bozorg)[44]
vispa-: "all".[49] (as in Avestan). The component appears in such words as vispafryā (Med. fem.) "dear to all", vispatarva- (med.) "vanquishing all", vispavada- (med. -op.) "leader of all", etc.[50]
Xshayathiya (royal, royalty): This Median word (∗xšaθra-pā-) is an example of words whose Greek form (known as romanized "satrap" from Gk. "satrįpēs - σατράπης") mirrors, as opposed to the tradition[N 3], a Median rather than an Old Persian form of an Old Iranian word.[51]
zūra-: "evil" and zūrakara-: "evil-doer".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medes


---------------------

WHatever on the age of the dictionary, I'll use what I can find that might be relevant, point being, if the OLB is what it says it is, most of these, if not all, should still be able to be found in it or something very close and even possibly show that it might be the original language of others.

I haven't finished with wer yet.

In an mmm bop it's gone...

#9478    Abramelin

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 01:02 PM

The Old Frisian you read in those dictionaries cannot be exactly the same as the language spoken at least 2600 years ago.

If you believe the Fryan Empire stretched all across Northern Europe, you'll have to take other Nordic languages into account, like Old German/English/Norse/Dutch/Danish/Swedish and Gothic.

==

German: 'wieder' = another time / again
German: 'Widerstand' = resistance, opposition

.

Edited by Abramelin, 17 January 2012 - 01:39 PM.


#9479    Otharus

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 02:19 PM

View PostThe Puzzler, on 17 January 2012 - 12:46 PM, said:

vispa-: "all".[49] (as in Avestan). The component appears in such words as vispafryā (Med. fem.) "dear to all", vispatarva- (med.) "vanquishing all", vispavada- (med. -op.) "leader of all", etc.
Aha, so "fryā" meant "dear to ..." in that word.

Interesting.

Edited by Otharus, 17 January 2012 - 02:26 PM.


#9480    Abramelin

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 02:36 PM

View PostOtharus, on 17 January 2012 - 02:19 PM, said:

Aha, so "fryā" meant "dear to ..." in that word.

Interesting.

It appears to be a widespread, Indo-European word:

free (v.)
O.E. freogan "to free, liberate, manumit," also "to love, think of lovingly, honor," from freo (see free (adj.)). Cf. O.Fris. fria "to make free;" O.S. friohan "to court, woo;" Ger. befreien "to free," freien "to woo;" O.N. frja "to love;" Goth. frijon "to love." Related: Freed; freeing.

free (adj.)
O.E. freo "free, exempt from, not in bondage," also "noble; joyful," from P.Gmc. *frijaz (cf. O.Fris. fri, O.S., O.H.G. vri, Ger. frei, Du. vrij, Goth. freis "free"), from PIE *prijos "dear, beloved," from base *pri- "to love" (cf. Skt. priyah "own, dear, beloved," priyate "loves;" O.C.S. prijati "to help," prijatelji "friend;" Welsh rhydd "free"). The adverb is from O.E. freon, freogan "to free, love."

The primary sense seems to have been "beloved, friend, to love;" which in some languages (notably Germanic and Celtic) developed also a sense of "free," perhaps from the terms "beloved" or "friend" being applied to the free members of one's clan (as opposed to slaves, cf. L. liberi, meaning both "free" and "children"). Cf. Goth. frijon "to love;" O.E. freod "affection, friendship," friga "love," frišu "peace;" O.N. frišr, Ger. Friede "peace;" O.E. freo "wife;" O.N. Frigg "wife of Odin," lit. "beloved" or "loving;" M.L.G. vrien "to take to wife, Du. vrijen, Ger. freien "to woo."


http://www.etymonlin...searchmode=none