11638 replies to this topic

[Otharus]

The Puzzler, on 02 February 2012 - 09:45 AM, said:

Yes, everyone is doing their best, not all of us think a meteor impact that is never mentioned is the be all and end all of the OLB.

I agree that there's many more interesting themes in OLB than the disaster part alone.

[Abramelin]

Otharus, on 02 February 2012 - 02:15 PM, said:

For ages we must have had an abundance of perfect oakwood here.

Great material for ships, artwork and buildings... as well as fire.

Yep, and they still find remnants of structures made from oak. Even the oldest boat in the world (Pesse, Drenthe), of about 9000 years old.

[Abramelin]

Otharus, on 02 February 2012 - 01:43 PM, said:

I would not use anything from him.

LOL, I searched using his name, and I found a couple of forums where everyone hates his guts!

These sites appear to be his:

http://frya.angelfire.com/

http://www.coven-of-..._witchcraft.htm
And this is from that last site: http://www.angelfire...lm/oam/oera.htm but it's gone.

But this site - the Bulfinch site - is not his:

http://levigilant.co.../Oera-Linda.htm

Anyway, all I wanted to know what he (and his Frisian friends) had made of a couple of OLB lines I posted today.

+++

EDIT:

I remember he once posted that he wanted to completely redo that page about the Oera Linda Book for he acknowledged the fact that there were many errors in his translation.

Edited by Abramelin, 02 February 2012 - 02:29 PM.

[Abramelin]

Otharus, on 02 February 2012 - 02:17 PM, said:

I agree that there's many more interesting themes in OLB than the disaster part alone.

Agreed, but if there is a 100% physical proof that all these disasters really took place in Europe in 2194 BC, then I think you will be drunk for a week, lol.

[Otharus]

Ottema's darkest side

The letters between dr. Ottema and the Over de Lindens (first Cornelis and later his son Leendert Floris) show that there is one thing they kept disagreeing about and this may be a tiny but most important detail:

The translation and interpretation of the word "od" in the "forma skédnise" (creation myth).

Ottema insisted that it meant "hate" (from Latin), while Cornelis suggested it would have to do with fertility (from Saxon and old-Norse), which makes much more sense in the context anyway.

Ottema to L.F. Over de Linden (translated from letter in Dutch dated 26-1-1876):

"Od (anger, rage, hate, animosity) trad to-ra binna, means that hate entered the hearts of the three daughters of Irtha; this hate was obviously inherited by all of their descendants, and this is cause of the inborn, innate animosity specially in Finda's and Lyda's posterity against Frya's children. An animosity that will not end until the people of Finda and Lyda will be exterminated, and the people of Frya at the final victory will remain and inherit and posess the whole earth.
This animosity dominates all of history in the OLB and still goes on in our days. Frya's people pervade in all continents and establish European supremacy all over the earth. Everywhere the peoples of Finda and Lyda will have to submit or disappear."

If Ottema really believed that his very own family name was derived from a word that means "hate", it is no surprise that his life ended the way it did.

~ ~ ~

By now, I think Ottema's soul will have burnt long enough in the hell that he created for himself (as a matter of speaking).

~ ~ ~

Later I will translate parts of a letter from Cornelis Over de Linden, that demonstrate a completely different (positive) attitude.
(I didn't copy that yet in the archives.)

Edited by Otharus, 02 February 2012 - 03:06 PM.

[Abramelin]

Otharus, on 02 February 2012 - 02:48 PM, said:

Ottema's darkest side

The letters between dr. Ottema and the Over de Lindens (first Cornelis and later his son Leendert Floris) show that there is one thing they kept disagreeing about and this may be a tiny but most important detail:

The translation and interpretation of the word "od" in the "forma skédnise" (creation myth).

Ottema insisted that it meant "hate" (from Latin), while Cornelis suggested it would have to do with fertility (from Saxon and old-Norse), which makes much more sense in the context anyway.

Ottema to L.F. Over de Linden (translated from letter in Dutch dated 26-1-1876):

"Od (anger, rage, hate, animosity) trad to-ra binna, means that hate entered the hearts of the three daughters of Irtha; this hate was obviously inherited by all of their descendants, and this is cause of the inborn, innate animosity specially in Finda's and Lyda's posterity against Frya's children. An animosity that will not end until the people of Finda and Lyda will be exterminated, and the people of Frya at the final victory will remain and inherit and posess the whole earth.
This animosity dominates all of history in the OLB and still goes on in our days. Frya's people pervade in all continents and establish European supremacy all over the earth. Everywhere the peoples of Finda and Lyda will have to submit or disappear."

If Ottema really believed that his very own family name was derived from a word that means "hate", it is no surprise that his life ended the way it did.

~ ~ ~

By now, I think Ottema's soul will have burnt long enough in the hell that he created for himself (as a matter of speaking).

~ ~ ~

Later I will translate parts of a letter from Cornelis Over de Linden, that demonstrate a completely different (positive) attitude.
(I didn't copy that yet in the archives.)

Abramelin, on 07 September 2011 - 01:38 PM, said:

I hope you have a peek now and then, Otharus, because I did find something about the name "Ott":

(I will give both the Dutch lines with the translated lines in pairs)

Otto, Ottens, Otte(n), Hoete, Otté, Ote, Oth(e), Ott, Ots, Ottes(en), Ottosen

Patroniem naar de Germaanse voornaam Otto, deze is afgeleid van het Germaanse ot.
Patronymic to the Germanic first name Otto, it is derived from the Germanic ot.

http://home.scarlet....loet/FpageO.htm

ot: rijkdom, erfdeel, zie od
ot: wealth, inheritance, see od

od, ot, ôd, oda, odâl, odo, odela, otto, ôthal: vaderlijk erfgoed, bezit, rijkdom, bewaarder
od, ot, ôd, oda, odâl, odo, odela, otto, ôthal: paternal heritage, property, wealth, custodian

http://home.scarlet....rvloet/GERM.htm

So the name Ott does have a meaning, and it's based on the Germanic 'ot'/'otto'.

But it also doesn't make a lot of sense in the context in which it is used in the OLB.

That's why I think 'od' must be seen in the meaning Reichenbach gave to it in 1845: vital energy or life force. .... and that would mean someone used that recent definition for 'od' in his creation of the OLB.


++++

EDIT:

Thinking about it a little bit more, I think "wealth", "riches", maybe in the meaning of "prosperity", is not a bad option, but in any case a lot better than Sandbach's "hatred":


-1- Thâ hja blât kêmon spisde Wr.alda hjam mith sina âdama;
-2- til thju tha maenneska an him skolde bvnden wêsa.
-3- Ring as hja rip wêron krêjon hja früchda aend nochta anda drâma Wr.aldas.
-4- Od trâd to-ra binna:
-5- aend nw bârdon ek twilif svna aend twilif togathera ek joltid twên.
-6- Thêrof send alle maenneska kêmen.

-1- When the last came into existence, Wr-alda breathed his spirit upon her
-2- in order that men might be bound to him.
-3- As soon as they were full grown they took pleasure and delight in the visions of Wr-alda.
-4- [ Hatred ] found its way among them.
-5- They each bore twelve sons and twelve daughters—at every Juul-time a couple.
-6- Thence come all mankind..

.

[Abramelin]

Damn, I thought I read it here about all those different meanings of "OD", but that was on your blog, lol.

Two screens open, not good.

I thought it would be a good idea the tuck everything in one post.

Oh well.

[Otharus]

Abramelin, on 02 February 2012 - 03:25 PM, said:

Damn, I thought I read it here about all those different meanings of "OD", but that was on your blog, lol.

You mean this:

Otharus, on 13 October 2010 - 12:32 PM, said:

An example to clarify
(OLB page 6; FORMA SKEEDNISE):
"... RING AS HJA RIP WEERON KREEION HJA FRUUCHDA AND NOCHTA ANDA DRAMA.
WR.ALDA.S OD TRAD TO RA BINNA. AND NW..."

The translations:

Ottema 1876 (dutch):
"Zoodra zij volwassen waren, kregen zij vermaak en genoegen in de droomen van Wralda.
Haat trad tot haar binnen."

Sandbach 1876 (english):
"As soon as they were full grown they took pleasure and delight in the visions of Wr-alda.
Hatred found its way among them."

Wirth 1933 (german):
(He just left out "RING ... DRAMA"!!!)
"Od (Gottes Odem) trat zu ihnen ein..."

Overwijn 1941 (dutch):
"Zodra zij volwassen waren, kregen zij vreugde en genoegen in de dromen van Wralda.
Geneugte kwam tot haar."

Jensma 1992 (dutch):
"Zodra zij volwassen waren, kregen ze vreugde en plezier in de dromen van Wralda.
Een spits trad in hun binnen, ..."

Snyman 1998 (afrikaans):
"En toe hulle volgroeid was, het hulle vreugde en genoegdoening geput uit die visioene van Wralda.
Haat het (egter) hulle harte binnegedring."

Jensma 2006 (dutch):
"Zo rap als ze rijp waren, kregen ze vreugde en genoten in Wralda's extase.
Gelukzaligheid trad tot hen binnen, ..."

de Heer 2008 (dutch):
"Zodra zij rijp waren kregen zij vreugde en genoegen en dromen.
Wralda's licht trad bij hen binnen, ..."

Note that de Heer (2008) is the first to correctly put the point between "dromen" and "Wralda´s".

Overview of the various translations of "OD":
Haat; Hatred (Ottema 1876, Sandbach 1876, Snyman 1998)
Gottes Odem; God´s breath (Wirth 1933)
Geneugte; pleasure (Overwijn 1941)
Een spits; a phallic object (Jensma 1992)
Gelukzaligheid; bliss (Jensma 2006)
Licht; light (de Heer 2008)

[Abramelin]

Yes, that was it.

Maybe "OD" could simply mean "lust"?

Like in "They were filled with lust".

"Entered by lust" or "Lust found its way among them" would sound a bit crappy.

.

Edited by Abramelin, 02 February 2012 - 03:40 PM.

[Otharus]

Abramelin, on 02 February 2012 - 03:39 PM, said:

Maybe "OD" could simply mean "lust"?

Like in "They were filled with lust".

"Entered by lust" or "Lust found its way among them" would sound a bit crappy.

LOL, yes, I'd prefer that to "hate".

Actually, I am sure that the whole reception history of the OLB would have been completely different.

Cornelis Over de Linden tried to warn Ottema, but the latter was too stubborn, or maybe he had a dark hidden agenda...

Edited by Otharus, 02 February 2012 - 03:46 PM.

[Abramelin]

Otharus, on 02 February 2012 - 03:46 PM, said:

LOL, yes, I'd prefer that to "hate".

Actually, I am sure that the whole reception history of the OLB would have been completely different.

Cornelis Over de Linden tried to warn Ottema, but the latter was too stubborn, or maybe he had a dark hidden agenda...

I really should read those letters, damn. But every time another hint or idea bubbles up in my mind and then I forget about them.

"They became overpowered by lust".. (=geil als apen). I assume that would have been a bit too much for the "Fijnen",  

What do you mean with Ottema maybe had a 'dark hidden motive'?

Now I am curious...

+

Btw: that post about "nehal" was inspired by a book I have, a predecessor of Iman Wilkens' book I posted about, and it's called "Homerus, Zanger der Kelten""  (Homerus, bard of the Celts) by Ernst Gideon, a book I bought when I was about 17 years old.

Gideon said Nehal was a goddess venerated in Egypt (that in relation to what he wrote about Nehallenia). But I didn't find a goddess called "Nehal" in Egypt.

.

Edited by Abramelin, 02 February 2012 - 06:17 PM.

[Van Gorp]

Abramelin, on 02 February 2012 - 06:14 PM, said:

I really should read those letters, damn. But every time another hint or idea bubbles up in my mind and then I forget about them.

"They became overpowered by lust".. (=geil als apen). I assume that would have been a bit too much for the "Fijnen",  

What do you mean with Ottema maybe had a 'dark hidden motive'?

Now I am curious...

+

Btw: that post about "nehal" was inspired by a book I have, a predecessor of Iman Wilkens' book I posted about, and it's called "Homerus, Zanger der Kelten""  (Homerus, bard of the Celts) by Ernst Gideon, a book I bought when I was about 17 years old.

Gideon said Nehal was a goddess venerated in Egypt (that in relation to what he wrote about Nehallenia). But I didn't find a goddess called "Nehal" in Egypt.

.

Following Schrieck:

Ne: een
Helena: Hel ene, descend in

Nilos: N'Hel Hos, the one that comes down from high

Hellen means to incline

[Otharus]

Otharus, on 21 December 2011 - 10:28 AM, said:

L.F. Over de Linden ("Beweerd maar niet bewezen", 1877) also refers to this:

"The most important peculiarity, concerning the origin of our numbers - called 'Arabic', but never used by the Arabs - the peculiarity that these numbers, in the 'Yul' as in the manuscript, appear as ornamentfigures in the decorations of the Alhambra, the greatest memorial of Morish architecture in Spain..."

Can anyone provide pictures of these decorations?

I found them:





Compare:



Source:

The Arabian antiquities of Spain, by James Cavanah Murphy, London 1813

Comment from dr. Ottema in a letter to L.F. Over de Linden, dated 4-3-1875 (translation):

"For our ciphars we are not indebted to the Arabs, for the simple reason, that they never used such figures as ciphars, and we therefore could not have gotten ours from them."

[Abramelin]

Otharus, on 03 February 2012 - 11:14 AM, said:

I found them:





Compare:



Source:

The Arabian antiquities of Spain, by James Cavanah Murphy, London 1813

Comment from dr. Ottema in a letter to L.F. Over de Linden, dated 4-3-1875 (translation):

"For our ciphars we are not indebted to the Arabs, for the simple reason, that they never used such figures as ciphars, and we therefore could not have gotten ours from them."

Great find, Otharus!

So this is what Ottema saw when he visited the Dutch Royal Library?

[Abramelin]

Otharus, on 02 February 2012 - 02:48 PM, said:

Ottema's darkest side

The letters between dr. Ottema and the Over de Lindens (first Cornelis and later his son Leendert Floris) show that there is one thing they kept disagreeing about and this may be a tiny but most important detail:

The translation and interpretation of the word "od" in the "forma skédnise" (creation myth).

Ottema insisted that it meant "hate" (from Latin), while Cornelis suggested it would have to do with fertility (from Saxon and old-Norse), which makes much more sense in the context anyway.

Ottema to L.F. Over de Linden (translated from letter in Dutch dated 26-1-1876):

"Od (anger, rage, hate, animosity) trad to-ra binna, means that hate entered the hearts of the three daughters of Irtha; this hate was obviously inherited by all of their descendants, and this is cause of the inborn, innate animosity specially in Finda's and Lyda's posterity against Frya's children. An animosity that will not end until the people of Finda and Lyda will be exterminated, and the people of Frya at the final victory will remain and inherit and posess the whole earth.
This animosity dominates all of history in the OLB and still goes on in our days. Frya's people pervade in all continents and establish European supremacy all over the earth. Everywhere the peoples of Finda and Lyda will have to submit or disappear."

Yeah, I get it now, Ottema's 'dark side'... he's a first class racist.