i am truing to replay to a sertain coments /people and i was expecting to see my replay next to the massage i was replaying to, but it's always appear at the and of list . can someone help ?
aufcource i am glad to help any qwuestions regardind mysteries of the bible and/or with the special relationes knolege the hebrew language gives as and with the knolege i have at this language and some baces of knolege about jewdaism and the bible
Hey H-H, thanks for getting back to me. I've been digging a bit deeper and my thoughts on Abraham coming from India has not changed too much. My sources are in PDF's unfortunately and I don't know how to attach them yet. Her are some parts I thought may be revealing. Not just for H-H to comment of course.
If as we have concluded Abram was born in 2123 BC, he was a child of ten when Ur-Nammu ascended the throne in Ur, the city of Nannar-Sin.
Abram was a young man of twenty-seven when Ur-Nammu was slain on a distant battlefield. As he wasthe anointed and appointed King of his “god” Nannar-Sin, his death had a traumatic effect on the peopleof Mesopotamia and was a major blow to the people’s faith in Nannar’s omnipotence. If, as we have pointed out above, Terah was a Sumerian High Priest or even a personage of royalty it would make perfect sense for him and his family to be on the move as the faith of the people in Nannar-Sin’s power was destroyed. The year of Ur-Nammu’s fall was 2096 BC and this is when, as a consequence of Ur-Nammu’s fall and Nannar-Sin’s defeat, that Terah and his family left Ur for a faraway destination, stopping off at Haran, that city being considered the Ur away from Ur and a location at which Nannar-Sin still reigned supreme.
Genesis tells of an ancient war between an alliance of four kingdoms of the East against five kings in
Genesis 14; And it came to pass in the days of Amraphel king of Shin’ar, Ariokh king of Ellasar,
Khedorla’omer king of Elam, and Tidhal king of Go’im – That these made war with Bera King of
Sodom, and with Birsha king of Gomorrah, Shinab king of Admah, and Shem-eber king of Zebi’im,
and with the king of Bela, which is Zoar.
The reading of biblical chronology puts Abram in the middle of the most momentous event of that time,
not merely as an observer but as an active participant. The century of Abram was thus the century that
witnessed the rise and fall of the Third Dynasty of Ur.
Shulgi Historical records have established that Shulgi in the twenty-eighth year of his reign (2068 BC) gave his
daughter in marriage to an Elamite chieftain and granted him the city of Larsa as a dowry; in return the
Elamites put a “foreign legion” of Elamite troops at Shulgi’s disposal. These troops were used by Shulgi to
subdue the western provinces, including Canaan.
In the last years of Shulgi’s reign, when Ur was still an imperial capital under his immediate successor Amar-Sin, we find the only historical time slot into which all the biblical and Mesopotamian records can possibly fit.It seems that all during Shulgi’s reign in Ur, the family of Terah stayed at Haran. Then, on Shulgi’s
demise, the divine order came to proceed to Canaan. Terah who was already quite old stayed in Haran. The one chosen for the mission was Abram - himself a mature man of seventy-five. The year was 2048
BC; it marked the beginning of twenty-four fateful years - eighteen years encompassing the war-filled
reigns of the two immediate successors of Shulgi - Amar-Sin and Shu-Sin and six years of Ibbi-Sin, the
last sovereign king of Ur.
It is undoubtedly more than mere coincidence that Shulgi’s death was the signal not only for a move by Abram, but also for a re-alignment among the Near Eastern gods.
It was exactly when Abram, accompanied (as we learn later) by an elite military corps, left Haran - the
gateway to the Hittite lands - that the exiled and wandering Marduk appeared in “Hatti land.” Moreover, the remarkable coincidence is that Marduk stayed there through the same twenty-four year period, the years that culminated with the great Disaster.
The evidence for Marduk’s movements is a tablet found in the library of Ashurbanipal, in which Marduk tells of his wanderings and eventual return to Babylon.
We learn from the balance of the text that Marduk from his new place in exile (Asia Minor) sent
emissaries and supplies (via Haran) to his followers in Babylon, and trading agents into Mari, thereby
making inroads into both gateways - the one beholden to Nannar-Sin and the other to Nannar-Sin’s
As if signaled by the death of Shulgi and the Defeat of Nannar-Sin, the whole ancient world came astir.
The House of Nannar had already been discredited and defeated by his brother Ninurta on behalf of
himself and his father Enlil. The battle was not however without out a cost and though Nannar-Sin’s
power base may have suffered losses, Enlil and Ninurta’s was also diminished.
It was at this time that the House of Marduk saw its final prevailing hour approaching. While Marduk
himself was still excluded from Mesopotamia, his first-born son, Nabu, was making converts to his
father’s cause. His efforts encompassed all the lands, including Greater Canaan.
It was against this background of fast developments that Abram was ordered to go to Canaan. Though
silent concerning why, the Old Testament is clear regarding his destination:
Moving expeditiously to Canaan, Abram and his wife, his nephew Lot, and their entourage
continued swiftly southward. There was a stopover at Shechem, where the Lord spoke to
Abram. Then he removed from there to the Mount, and encamped east of Beth-El (God’s
House); in the vicinity of Mount Moriah (“Mount of Directing”), upon whose Sacred Rock the
Ark of the Covenant was placed when Solomon built the temple of Yahweh in Jerusalem.
From there “Abram journeyed farther, still going toward the Negev.” The Negev - the dry region where
Canaan and the Sinai Peninsula merge - was clearly Abram’s destination.
What was Abram to do in the Negev who’s very name (“The Dryness”) bespoke its aridity? What was there that required the patriarch’s hurried, journey from Haran and impelled his presence through the miles upon miles of barren land?
The mission of Abram was a military one: specifically to protect the Sinai, the land of his God or that of his God’s allies.
Abram obviously had military allies in that region. His Hittite friends, who were also residents of Canaan, were known for their military experience, which sheds light on the question of where Abram acquired the
military proficiency that he employed so successfully during the ‘War of the Kings’.
Abram also led an entourage that included an elite corps of several hundred fighting men. The biblical
term for them - Naar - has been variously translated as “retainer” or simply “young man”.
Studies have shown that in Hurrian the word denoted riders or cavalrymen. In fact, recent studies of
Mesopotamian texts dealing with military movements list among the charioteers and cavalrymen,
LU.NAR (“Nar-men”) who served as fast riders. We find an identical term in the Bible (I Samuel 30:17): after King David attacked an Amalekite camp, the only ones to escape were “four hundred Ish-Naar” - literally, “Nar-men” or LU.NAR - “who were riding the camels.”
The image of Abram that emerges is that of an innovative military commander of royal
This view accords well with ancient recollections of Abram. Josephus, (first century AD) wrote of him:
“Abram reigned at Damascus, where he was a foreigner, having come with an army out of the land
above Babylon” from which, “after a long time, the Lord got him up and removed from that country
together with his men and he went to the land then called the land of Canaan but now the land of
According to the biblical tale, a place called El-Paran was the real target of the invaders, but they never
reached it. Coming down Transjordan and circling the Dead Sea, the invaders passed by Mount Se’ir and advanced “toward El-Paran, which is upon the Wilderness.” But they were forced to swing back by Ein-Mishpat, which is Kadesh. El-Paran (“God’s Gloried Place?”) was never reached; somehow the invaders were beaten back at Ein-Mishpat, also known as Kadesh or Kadesh-Barnea.
It was only then, as they turned back toward Canaan that “Thereupon the king of Sodom and the king of Gomorrah and the king of Admah and the king of Zebi’im and the king of Bela, which is Zoar, marched forth and engaged them in battle in the vale of Siddim.”
The battle with these Canaanite kings was thus a late phase of the war and not its first purpose. Almost a century ago, in a thorough study of Kadesh-Barnea, it was concluded that the true target of the invaders was El-Paran, which was correctly identified as the fortified oasis of Nakhl in Sinai’s central plain.
Why had they gone there, and who was it that blocked their way at Kadesh-Barnea, forcing the invaders to turn back?
The only answer that can make sense is that the significance of the destination was to launch an invasion and Abraham was the one who blocked the advance at Kadesh-Barnea.
From earlier times Kadesh-Barnea was the closest place where men could approach in that particular
region without special permission. Shulgi had gone there to pray and make offerings to the “God Who
Judges”, and nearly a thousand years before him the Sumerian king Gilgamesh stopped there to obtain the special permission.
The hints in the Old Testament become a detailed tale in the Khedorlaomer Texts, which make clear that the war was intended to prevent the return of Marduk and thwart the efforts of Nabu to gain access to Sinai.
These texts not only name the very same kings who are mentioned in the Bible but even repeat the biblical detail of the switch of allegiance “in the thirteenth year”!
As we return to the Kedorlaomer Texts to obtain the details for the biblical frame, we should bear in mind that they were written by a Babylonian historian who favored Marduk’s desire to make Babylon “theheavenward navel in the four regions.” It was to thwart this that the gods opposing Marduk ordered Khedorlaomer to seize and defile Babylon.
The despoiling of Babylon was only the beginning. After the “bad deeds” were done there, Utu/Shamash (son of Nannar-Sin and twin of Inanna/Ishtar) sought action against Nabu (son of Marduk).... the gods assembled.... Ishtar decreed an oracle, and the army put together by the kings of the East arrived in Transjordan....
When the invaders....” thereafter, Dur-Mah-Ilani was to be captured and the Canaanite cities (including Gaza and Beer-Sheba in the Negev) were to be punished. But at Dur-Mah-Ilani, according to the Babylonian text, “the son of the priest, whom the gods in their true counsel had anointed,” stood in the invader’s way and “the despoiling prevented.”
Though not specifically mentioned by name, the Babylonian text did indeed refer to Abraham, the son of Terah the priest, and spelled out his role in turning back the invaders.
This is strengthened by the fact that the Mesopotamian and biblical texts relate the same event in the
same locality with the same outcome.
Further strengthening this position is the date formulas for the reign of Amar-Sin called his seventh year. The crucial year being 2041 BC, the year of the military expedition - also MU NE IB.RU.UM BA.HUL meaning – “Year the Shepherding-abode of IB.RU.UM was attacked.”
Can this reference, in the exact crucial year, be other than to Abraham and his shepherding abode?
Having carried out his mission, Abraham returned to his base near Hebron. Encouraged by his feat, the Canaanite kings marched his forces to intercept the retreating army from the East. But the invaders beat them and seized all the possessions of Sodom and Gomorrah as well as one prize hostage: They took with them Lot, the nephew of Abraham, who was residing at Sodom.
On hearing the news, Abraham called up his best cavalrymen and pursued the retreating invaders.
Catching up with them near Damascus, he succeeded in releasing Lot and retrieving all the booty. Upon his return he was greeted as a victor in the Valley of Shalem (Jerusalem): ”And Malkizedek, the king of Shalem, brought forth bread and wine,
for he was priest unto the God Most High”. And he blessed him, saying: “Blessed be Abram unto the God Most High, Possessor of Heaven and Earth; And blessed be the God Most High who hath delivered thy foes unto thine hand.” Soon the Canaanite kings also arrived to thank Abraham, and offered him all the seized possessions as a reward. But Abraham, saying that his local allies could share in that, refused to take “even a shoelace” for himself or his warriors. The invasion of the Sinai was thwarted, but the danger to it was not removed; and the efforts of Marduk to gain the supremacy intensified ever more. Fifteen years later Sodom and Gomorrah went up in flames when Ninurta and Nergal unleashed the weapons of awesome brilliance.
I know it's a bit long sorry but I'll try and pick out a few interesting points.
Abram as descended from a priestly class.
Allies with Hittites, Amorites and Elamites.
The dating of the events in the Bible can seem pretty accurate when put this way.
What is the deal with Melchizedek?
The region under a situation of immense change and turmoil an Abram moving to Canaan to stop the progress of Marduks forces.
Abram as a supporter of Nannar. Does this mean Nannar could be Yahweh?
I recognize that the use of names associated with Sitchin may be offputting but I hope we can see beyond that to the actual tablets of the time.