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Go forth and procreate


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#46    jpalz

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Posted 15 July 2004 - 10:14 PM

QUOTE (trublvr @ Jul 15 2004, 04:06 PM)
All,

   This is one of the most thoughtful threads in a long time.  Way to go, Odinsgirl!

   As far as over-population and the command to "go forth and multiply" go, we've got to understand that Christians and Jews are not just running around having tons of kids!  I'll admit that Christian households tend to have more kids than non-religious households, but there are reasons for this that go far beyond a Christian's slavish obedience to the command in Genesis.  Some folks that have posted on this thread seem to believe that the Christian response to this command is to have tons of kids.  But such an assumption only betrays ignorance about Christian practices.  Many Christians have sizeable families (depending on what we mean by this), but others have small families, some (like Christian friends of mine) choose to have no kids at all, some adopt exclusively.  I am recently married, and my wife and I would like to have about four kids (the Lord and our bodies willing) and adopt more.  

    As far as over-population goes, the REAL problem is greed and selfishness.  There are more than enough resources to go around in the world, but we have chosen to hoard stuff, and in effect starve whole nations of people.   If we are going to tenderly care for the earth and its inhabitants, I would direct attention to some of God's other commands: Genesis ch 1, v 28 and Genesis ch 2, v 15 both call for care for the earth.  After all, why would God invest such time in making the world and then let humans obliterate it?  God commands also that the land and the animals be allowed to rest during Sabbath (Exodus ch 23, vv 11- 12).  Leviticus ch 25 is totally concerned with issues of justice and rest, which includes the land.  Part of the Jubilee year is to allow the land a time of rest.  Human obedience to God's commands is powerfully linked to the well-being of the environment in the bible.  In Leviticus ch 25, vv 18-19 and much of Leviticus 26, God speaks directly to this.  The world is suffering because of the injustice, greed, bloodshed, and unchecked industrialization being inflicted upon (especially by we Westerners here in the 1/3 world).  We shouldn't be given a choice between the well-being of our planet and producing children.  The true choice is the well-being of our entire planet and all of its inhabitants OR the prosperity of a few.  Fight for justice.

That's right dude, I mean look, there are children starving in Africa while others have a surplus of food. It's not God's will what is ruining the planet, but how we manage the resources we have, because we have enough food to feed the whole planet, but there is still starvation around.

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#47    Mekorig

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Posted 15 July 2004 - 10:26 PM

Some hint of the overpopulation problem here in argentina. We had a lot of 20 kids families, or womans whit 10 childrens of diferents fathers, and the problems are:

A:lack of sexual education.
B:Lack of difusion of sexual health.
C:Judeo-cristian religions (crhistian,jew,evangelist,etc) that dont like the anti-conceptives modern methods, are agains abortion and sexual education, and have a lot of support from the "higher" society.

The problem is that the most of the womans how had too many kids are pooor.

Some things are beign doed to educate the population, but has i said the church and others religions try to do almost everything to stop that.

I´m an evil pinko UN slave liberal commie

I don't think any of these "The Vague Society of Nebulous Meanies are going to take over the world and light up a planet" theories worry too much about practical considerations like that. It's all about rousing ill-informed, paranoiac fear, not making sense.

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#48    jpalz

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Posted 16 July 2004 - 01:43 AM

Yeah, but abortion is not a solution. Simply put, it's a murder.

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#49    stillcrazy

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Posted 16 July 2004 - 06:24 AM

QUOTE
A little more than 4 years ago, in 1999, global population surpassed
6 billion. At midyear 2002, it stood at 6.2 billion and just over two people
were being added each second. As rapid as this may seem, the pace
at which global population was growing had already peaked more
than a decade earlier. In absolute terms, approximately 74 million
people were added to the world’s population in 2002 compared to a high of 87 million in 1989-90.
Similarly, the annual average growth rate was approximately 1.2 percent
in 2002, down from a high of 2.2 percent in 1963-64. It is expected that this slowdown in population growth will continue into the foreseeable future.

The slowdown in the growth of the world’s population can be traced primarily to declines in fertility. In 2002, the world’s women, on average, were giving birth to 2.6 children over their lifetime. This was less than one-half of a child more
than the level needed to assure the replacement of the population. Although fertility rates in some parts of the world are expected to remain above replacement level for quite some time (e.g., in Sub-Saharan Africa), Census Bureau projections suggest that the level of fertility for the world as a whole
will drop below replacement level before 2050. It is important to note that these
declines in fertility will not translate directly into equivalent
declines in the growth of the population, because the numbers of women in their childbearing years are increasing relative to the rest
of the population. This increase was responsible for about threefourths
of global population growth in 2002. Census Bureau projections suggest that by 2050 virtually all of global population increase will be due to this age-sex
compositional effect.


From the US world census projections. Link at bottom.
An interesting note, if the projections are correct, then certain countries will contribute more than others. The thre major contributers will be India, the rest of Asia and Oceania and sub-Saharan Africa, China being fourth.  To the best of my knowledge, none of these locations are big time christian strongholds. Never have been. So why point fingers at a certain belief for over-population?

Link, PDF format

QUOTE
(I have posted this topic here, because of the Christian doctrine, that states, "Go forth and procreate",


Thought I better add this quote before anyone says that no one ever sait it was Christians  

Edited by stillcrazy, 16 July 2004 - 06:27 AM.


#50    trublvr

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Posted 16 July 2004 - 12:35 PM


Stillcrazy,

   Thanks so much for your last post!  Your point is very well taken, friend.  The four places you mentioned are in no way Christian strongholds, and that proves a very good point.  Excellent work.  

If truth is not a matter of majority vote, neither is it a matter of minority dissent.        

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