[Kismit]

[off topic ]Welcome to the board Sam , I like your choice in avatar .
used that one for a bit myself when I first joined UM . [/off topic ]


Allthough it dosen't support the exsistence of ghosts , I have posted a picture in the U.M. gallery , called 'St.Bathans cemetery' . Which I personally took using a normal camera while visting a town called St.Bathans .

St. Bathans is home to the Vulcan hotel , famous for it's resident ghost , rumored to be the spirit of a 23 year old prostitute murdered during the great gold rush . She was strangled in one of the back bedrooms of the hotel and had her gold stolen presumably by the murderer .
My husband and I spoke to staff at he hotel , and they were all convinced that something wasn't right but nobdy was willing to share personal stories .

The picture can be found Here ...

This post has been edited by Kismit: 01 August 2004 - 09:28 AM

[Hammys Teddy]

Hi all,

Yet again, all we see from believers is the same old same old, "its true cos i say so".....

Sorry folks, that doesnt quite cut the mustard..

If I may pick up on a few points raised...

The first few are from earthygirl...

[UfosOverPhoenix]

This is in response to MOWO who says" Also, people who claim to 'contact the dead' are frauds. "
Have you ever watched John Edwards do a MEDIUM READING= contact the dead??? It's very interesting and very convincing.

[aquatus1]

We discussed John Edwards in a different thread. He is very convincing. He is also a fraud. An intentional one, in that he knows perfectly well he isn't contacting the dead. What he does is textbook cold-reading. I have done a critical analysis on his shows, and I found that he makes an average of 8 guesses for every one that he gets right. He has also, on at least two seperate occasions, been found to be passing off information that he previously gathered as information from the spirit world. You can look up the thread to find more evidence of his wrongdoings.

[haunted-one61]

Hammy: I think I first lost most of my confidence in the ever so brilliant scientific, check out our new flawless state-of-the-art equipment community (and yes, the medical community IS very much a part) when after repeated visits to numerous doctors with endless tests using endless pieces of equipment, failed to find a 10 pound grapefruit-sized tumor in my mother. They told her she had all of the best testing on the best equipment money could buy and assured her nothing was wrong. Needless to say, she died. It could have been prevented, but they were men of science. They could NEVER be wrong. Neither could their equipment, right? This opinion is also coming from someone who has spent a number of years working in the medical field, and has been personally grossly misdiagnosed herself. All I'm saying is, you might want to be careful how much you trust "scientific data". Given, we're just talking about proving the existence of ghosts right now, but it sounds like you put an awful lot of trust in "science" and "tests".

I'm not trying to be a sh*t, but I was just wondering two things.....

1) Why do you like UM if you don't believe in anything paranormal? (and not just you) the only reason you don't, at the moment, is because you've been lucky enough to have not experienced anything personally. My husband was that way until recently, he just didn't put down those who said they had. He changed his mind in a hurry after his first encounter that he couldn't explain (but he did try to desperately )

2) On your signature it says: "Loves Button till the day I die,then my ghost will love her ghost" BUT I THOUGHT YOU DON'T BELIEVE IN GHOSTS!

[Kismit]

Skeptisism is a good thing really .

Teddy ,
your right it is just a watermark , coupled with the human brain's in built need to recognise human faces and forms . Only it is interesting that we went looking for a ghost and in just a handful of shots we took a photo that has an image of something that looks like a woman .

We may never have more than anecdotal evidence to prove either way, but atleast it's a start .

[shomeekatz]

Hi:
I am new to this site, but was fishing for information on the existance of ghosts. I have pictures of things that showed up on my camera this weekend at the Crescent Hotel in Arkansas. My husband was a TOTAL non believer in this and the pictures really make us wonder now. Let me know what you think. I do not care if anyone thinks they are fake. If they are fake, I did not create them to fool anyone. Maybe a scientific reason for this perhaps. The Mirror picture I am showing is a picture my husband took of himself in their hall mirror on the 2nd floor. There were 4 of us, at two in the morning. We were not in the shot, all of us were in shorts. This hotel was a hospital at one time (loose term for it).
Anyone tell me what this is about? I have been trying to send this picture. Would anyone let me email it to them so I may get it up here and they can give it a try?
Thanks,
Shomee

[haunted-one61]

Kismit,
I guess I didn't state my case as clearly as I thought I had. What I was trying to point out was that, yes, skepticism actually IS a very good thing, but you have to keep an open mind and have an equal amount (I think) of skepticism for the scientific community as well. Again, although we're just talking about proving the existence of ghosts here, I was warning that it can be dangerous to put too much faith in the scientific community. They are also human like the rest of us, they also have flaws. They can also be egomaniacs, so if they have failed to yet create proper testing to disprove something, they will undoubtedly just claim it doesn't exist. That would be the easier out for them, right? Also, did I miss something? I mean, about the watermarks.

[whitegreyhat]

[Kismit]

[Babs]

I hear what you are saying, Haunted-one61. I didn't believe in ghosts until I went to Gettysburg, Pennsylvania and experienced a couple. My husband did too. I, now, know that they exist...but try telling that to anyone.

[Hammys Teddy]

Hi Haunted-One,

[Hammys Teddy]

[sam]

[spectral]

Hammy's Teddy claimed earlier that science wasn't perfect but it's the best we've got, but by the same token anecdotal evidence, while not being perfect is often the best that we have during a spontaneous encounter and far from being useless anecdotal evidence, gathered over time can be a good indicator that something is going on, so to dismiss it alltogether is unwise.

I also have trouble with the accusation that people want to believe as a form of comfort and that's the only reason. Taking into account the amount of formerly skeptical individuals who have had there world veiw changed by such encounters, plus those who wish fervently for a more mundane explanation for the events they are living through which cause fear/distress and disruption, the above statement can only be of the flimsiest generalisation. To turn it on it's head lets speculate that most non believers choose not to believe because secretely ghosts may (or may not) indicate the existence of an afterlife and these individuals are so terrified of what awaits them on the other side due to their wicked acts on earth that it suits them to dismiss such things by any means and carry on with their selfish, nasty ways. Yes it's a pretty simplistic and ridiculous dismissal not to mention insulting to the intelligence of the skeptic involved. Such statements are a knee jerk reaction to the question of belief/non belief and serve no real purpose.

As to the question of mediums and cold reading, look up Pro Archie Roy and Trish Robertsons investigation of medium Gordon Smith which strongly indicates that cold reading cannot be taken into account at all times. This does not prove he is in contact with the dead of course but is further evidence for the existence of some form of ESP, the one thing which I'll admit to believing in 100%.