Jump to content




Welcome to Unexplained Mysteries! Please sign in or create an account to start posting and to access a host of extra features.


- - - - -

'Serious flaws' in Iraq intelligence


  • Please log in to reply
37 replies to this topic

#16    bathory

bathory

    Alien Abducter

  • Member
  • 5,302 posts
  • Joined:20 Nov 2003
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Australia

Posted 17 July 2004 - 06:47 AM

good old islamofascism!


#17    joc

joc

    Adminstrator of Cosmic Blues

  • Member
  • 14,420 posts
  • Joined:12 Dec 2003
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Milky Way Galaxy 3rd planet

  • They're wearing steel that's bright and true
    They carry news that must get through
    They choose the path where no-one goes

Posted 17 July 2004 - 02:34 PM

QUOTE
The serious flaws I can see are those in bush and blairs minds.Hope bush doesn`t decide to go and implement that executive order and become a dictator otherwiae not only are people in america in trouble but the rest of us may wnat to watch our backs.

And I have to got to say that I think that "we" are losing the war on terror and the world is far less safe and secure than before Iraq was invaded. There seem to be far more extremists and terrorists than before the war in Iraq.


Tess, StillCrazy, AztecInca,

We are winning the war on terror.  We have decimated the Taliban and Al Queda in Afghanistan....the MAIN training center for terrorists.  We have brought down an evil and Freedom hating regime in Iraq.  We are fighting the terrorists on a turf other than our own.  We haven't had a terrorist attack in this country since 9/11.  You people just have to pull your heads out of the sandbox of media soundbites and newspaper stories and SEE with your own minds the truth. ohmy.gif
We have lost many soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan.  But far, far, far, FAR, less than what the neysayers were predicting we would lose in the opening war with Iraq.  And remember what they said about Afghanistan?  TIME magazine was quoting Rudyard Kipling who said that Afghanistan is where countries go to die!

Pessimism and Fear is what drives much of you peoples thinking.  Actually it is what drives most peoples thinking.   Wake up! w00t.gif


Posted Image
once i believed that starlight could guide me home
now i know that light is old and stars are cold

ReverbNation

#18    Babs

Babs

    Alien Abducter

  • Member
  • 4,663 posts
  • Joined:27 Nov 2003

  • "Truth will first be ridiculed, then violently opposed, and finally accepted as self-evident" A. Schopenhauer 1788-1860

Posted 17 July 2004 - 03:20 PM

StillCrazy...war can be a long and drawn out affair with lots of blood shed. We will be there for years. All you guys want is a quick fix. I think at the bottom of this is fear...fear, you will have to fight. And most of you bleeding heart liberals don't want to get your feet wet.

Edited by Babs, 17 July 2004 - 03:20 PM.

"The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation"

Henry David Thoreau...

#19    wunarmdscissor

wunarmdscissor

    Majestic 12 Operative

  • Member
  • 5,761 posts
  • Joined:07 Nov 2003
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sunny Glasgow

  • come on the hoops

Posted 17 July 2004 - 03:25 PM

You have no idea how patriotic i am about my country or what i would do to protect it.

Cant you see that criticisin an unjust war is just a patriotic as supportin it , in fact more so.

Perhaps i just believe that this war is so foolish that things will just get worse for MY country.

Stand up for the Champions
'MON the tic an tiocfaidh ar-la


saorsa na h-alba

#20    Babs

Babs

    Alien Abducter

  • Member
  • 4,663 posts
  • Joined:27 Nov 2003

  • "Truth will first be ridiculed, then violently opposed, and finally accepted as self-evident" A. Schopenhauer 1788-1860

Posted 17 July 2004 - 06:16 PM

It will be worse for your country, scissor, if 'we' go down. And that's what I'm saying, too... you guys don't want us to do things because it will eventually come around to you.

You're all going to have choose a side eventually.

Edited by Babs, 17 July 2004 - 06:20 PM.

"The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation"

Henry David Thoreau...

#21    stillcrazy

stillcrazy

    Poltergeist

  • Member
  • 2,172 posts
  • Joined:03 Feb 2004

Posted 17 July 2004 - 07:30 PM

QUOTE (Babs @ Jul 17 2004, 08:20 AM)
StillCrazy...war can be a long and drawn out affair with lots of blood shed. We will be there for years. All you guys want is a quick fix. I think at the bottom of this is fear...fear, you will have to fight. And most of you bleeding heart liberals don't want to get your feet wet.

Babs, first of all I'm a republican who regrets voting for Bush.
Second. I have no fear of serving my country. I already have. I have the scars and wheelchair to prove it. But my service was here in the US, and not with a gun.
Any war that is based on a false set of information/Intelligence failures etc, is an unjust war.

When I see an administration, that refuses to answer questions, hinders investigations and makes false claims I feel it is MY right and duty as an American citizen to question those that serve me. Lest you forget, elected leaders work for the people, not the other way around. It is my Duty to question their actions.

I know this war is going to be long and drawn out. I knew that before we invaded Iraq, because unlike Bush, I looked at all possible scenerios of what could happen.
The fact that we are in a middle-eastern country, creates problems in and of it's self. While we maintain it is not a religious war, there are those in the mid-east that want to make it one.

I refuse to follow any leader blindly. As an American I will exercise my right
to question and demand answers, as the U.S. Constitution says in the First Amendment.

QUOTE
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.[/i]


Instead of blindy being critical of those who question and find fault, please feel free to use your constutional right and ask Bush why we went to war. See what you get from his minions.

Edited by stillcrazy, 17 July 2004 - 07:33 PM.


#22    Asterix

Asterix

    Astral Projection

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 670 posts
  • Joined:12 Jul 2004

  • By Belenos and Toutatis!

Posted 17 July 2004 - 08:05 PM

Very well said, Stillcrazy.

Posted Image
There are two kinds of idiots - those who don't take action because they have received a threat, and those who think they are taking action because they have issued a threat.
Paulo Coelho

#23    tam

tam

    Alien Embryo

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 60 posts
  • Joined:06 Jun 2004

  • let the good times roll

Posted 17 July 2004 - 09:28 PM

QUOTE (Babs @ Jul 17 2004, 07:16 PM)
It will be worse for your country, scissor, if 'we' go down. And that's what I'm saying, too... you guys don't want us to do things because it will eventually come around to you.

You're all going to have choose a side eventually.

Ok babs enlighten me if you will.
How come after defeat in the first Iraqi war saddams evil regime remained in power?
why did we no do the guy then ?
sweet as a nut,he is history.
We I mean the west let him go why?
Now 10 years on we had to invade Iraq coz we we could not find bin laddin cmone babs be honest does it make sense?
Gaddafi is our pal now go figure.
Its all money at the end of the day am I right  or am I right?
Young American and British soldiers are dying for f**kall .
they should come home now.
For all its worth I believe that the USA is the UKs best friend.
God bless America thumbsup.gif  


#24    Fluffybunny

Fluffybunny

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 14,136 posts
  • Joined:24 Oct 2003
  • Gender:Male

  • "Of all the tyrannies that affect mankind, tyranny in religion is the worst."
    Thomas Paine

Posted 17 July 2004 - 09:36 PM

QUOTE (Babs @ Jul 17 2004, 08:20 AM)
And most of you bleeding heart liberals don't want to get your feet wet.

So Babs, when are you enlisting? If you would like I can give you a ride to your local recruiters office, I am certain that they would love to have your help.

StillCrazy has a valid point, even if it may differ from yours. You both have valid points.

Too many people on both sides of the spectrum have fallen into this mentality that a full one half of the country are the enemy for having different beliefs...in a country based on freedom of expression. It is this infighting that allows the focus to be taken away from "we the people" being able to watch, and have control over government corruption and ineptitude that is running rampant in our leadership.

People should be working towards fixing problems, not creating them.

#25    stillcrazy

stillcrazy

    Poltergeist

  • Member
  • 2,172 posts
  • Joined:03 Feb 2004

Posted 18 July 2004 - 12:30 AM

I find it interesting that those who don't agree with a war or paticular party's ideals are either branded Liberals, Communist, un-American or what have you. (Depends on party line)

So I am going to rant for a few moments.

Why is it that those that disagree with Bush, and now in light that the intelligence that he used was faulty, are liberals who are unwilling to go to war. I would be more than happy to DEFEND my country from any attack, external or INTERNAL.

Fluffybunny: I will have to agree and disagree with you on your post above.

Babs made no point other than to say I/we/us were unwilling to "Get my feet wet" in a war.  That's not a point, it's a condemnation and accusation.  

For those who feel we are winning the war on terrorism, I suggest that you look at Morocco, Pakistan and India. Morocco in particular. Prior to March of 03 we had the support of the world in fleshing out terrorist. But since we took unilateral action against Iraq, without solid evidence, terrorist recruiting has increased ten fold. And not just in Iraq and Iran.  For every arrest we make, there are more than enough extremist to take the place of those imprisoned.  The U.S. and the U.K. now have to contend with Islamic extremist recruiting in thier own countries. Any place that has a heavy concentration of Islamic fundamentalist is ripe for recruiting future terrorist.  

When we went into Afganistan, we had the blessing of most of the world. We had good intel, backed by the Taliban's own addmission that Osama bin Laden was in country. We were justified in going after him, and since the taliban refused to cooperate and continued to hide bin Laden, they made themselves a fair target.  Most of bin Laden's training camps were in Afganistan.  

And my final point, I know Fluffybunny has served his country, so anything he post, I will always give it the utmost respect. If memory serves me correctly, Joc has served his country as well, and even if I don't always agree with him. I will give him the same respect. I served my country for twelve years as a Civilian trainer on military bases and federal facilities. And it cost me everything.

Edited by stillcrazy, 18 July 2004 - 12:32 AM.


#26    Fluffybunny

Fluffybunny

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 14,136 posts
  • Joined:24 Oct 2003
  • Gender:Male

  • "Of all the tyrannies that affect mankind, tyranny in religion is the worst."
    Thomas Paine

Posted 18 July 2004 - 12:42 AM

QUOTE (stillcrazy @ Jul 17 2004, 05:30 PM)
Fluffybunny: I will have to agree and disagree with you on your post above.

Let me be more specific as to what Babs valid point was:

...war can be a long and drawn out affair with lots of blood shed. We will be there for years

I wasn't very specific in my point. My bad.

I do agree with what you have posted StillCrazy.

Babs, My offer to give you a ride to the recruiters office still stands. If you are too far away, I would be willing to secure the services of a nice limo to get you there. I think that folks going off to fight for their country deserve a nice last hurrah as it were...

Your government and your president needs you in these trying times. I already did my 8 years and did my share as have others on this board.

Now it is your turn to put up...

Too many people on both sides of the spectrum have fallen into this mentality that a full one half of the country are the enemy for having different beliefs...in a country based on freedom of expression. It is this infighting that allows the focus to be taken away from "we the people" being able to watch, and have control over government corruption and ineptitude that is running rampant in our leadership.

People should be working towards fixing problems, not creating them.

#27    stillcrazy

stillcrazy

    Poltergeist

  • Member
  • 2,172 posts
  • Joined:03 Feb 2004

Posted 18 July 2004 - 12:59 AM

Just as a sidebar, it is being widely reproted that the CIA was the major culprit in the faulty information. However, the Whitehouse's role, and the report in regards to that aspect, will not be released until after the election. Even though most of the report is done at this time.

Source: Congressional aid who spoke on condition that I won't blab her name all over the internet.  


#28    Tess

Tess

    Apparition

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 267 posts
  • Joined:23 Nov 2003
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:U.S.A.

Posted 18 July 2004 - 01:25 AM

All i know is i definitely don't want my sons to enlist......or be drafted.....if i believed it was a war worth fighting,i'd feel different about it.
Babs,do you have any children?Would you want them to die for their country?Are you encouraging them to enlist?
Joc,sure,we have accomplished a few things,but  do you seriously believe we can win this fight?What i'm trying to say is it will be a NEVERENDING battle,terrorism will never end....so how can we "win" something that will never be over?If you play against someone at a card game and you never finish the game,can you call yourself a winner?it doesn't matter if you played a few good hands,you're still not the winner.
You said " You people just have to pull your heads out of the sandbox of media soundbites and newspaper stories and SEE with your own minds the truth. ".....you need to pull your head out of the sandbox when it comes to Bush.....I pray he isn't re-elected,and if he is,you will eventually change your thinking.I'm not too keen on Kerry or Nader,but i'd rather have one of them win than to keep spiraling downward  like we have the past 4 years.


All are lunatics, but he who can analyze his delusion is called a philosopher."
~Ambrose Bierce~

#29    joc

joc

    Adminstrator of Cosmic Blues

  • Member
  • 14,420 posts
  • Joined:12 Dec 2003
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Milky Way Galaxy 3rd planet

  • They're wearing steel that's bright and true
    They carry news that must get through
    They choose the path where no-one goes

Posted 18 July 2004 - 01:57 AM

QUOTE
Joc,sure,we have accomplished a few things,but do you seriously believe we can win this fight?


Abslolutely!  This isn't cards Tess.  This is war.  And we will either win it or lose it.  It isn't Vietnam.  It isn't us protecting another country.  It is win or lose.  You better check your pessimism at the door and pray we do win. wub.gif

StillCrazy,

Back at you sir! thumbsup.gif  thumbsup.gif  thumbsup.gif

FluffyBunny:  Salute!! thumbsup.gif  thumbsup.gif  thumbsup.gif  

Edited by joc, 18 July 2004 - 01:58 AM.

Posted Image
once i believed that starlight could guide me home
now i know that light is old and stars are cold

ReverbNation

#30    Tess

Tess

    Apparition

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 267 posts
  • Joined:23 Nov 2003
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:U.S.A.

Posted 18 July 2004 - 02:57 AM

QUOTE (joc @ Jul 17 2004, 10:57 PM)

You better check your pessimism at the door and pray we do win. wub.gif


If you're talking about this war on terrorism ,of course i pray we win Joc.I'm not being a pessimist,i'm just being a realist ,and I believe it's a no win situation. sad.gif  

All are lunatics, but he who can analyze his delusion is called a philosopher."
~Ambrose Bierce~




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users