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Time travel theory avoids grandfather paradox


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#1    Still Waters

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 03:25 PM

www.physorg.com said:

The possibility of going back in time only to kill your ancestors and prevent your own birth has posed a serious problem for potential time travelers, not even considering the technical details of building a time machine. But a new theory proposed by physicists at MIT suggests that this grandfather paradox could be avoided by using quantum teleportation and "post-selecting" what a time traveler could and could not do.So while murdering one’s relatives is unfortunately possible in the present time, such actions would be strictly forbidden if you were to try them during a trip to the past.

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#2    StarMountainKid

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 08:55 PM

Couldn't you also post-select to kill your grandfather?

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#3    aquatus1

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 09:21 PM

I still don't get what's so paradoxical about it.  So what if you no longer exist after you kill your grandfather?  If you get hit by a hammer, and the hammer then disappears, you've still been hit by a hammer.


#4    StarMountainKid

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 10:42 PM

aquatus1 said:

I still don't get what's so paradoxical about it. So what if you no longer exist after you kill your grandfather? If you get hit by a hammer, and the hammer then disappears, you've still been hit by a hammer.


I see your point.

I think the paradox is, after you go back in time and kill your grandfather, you were never born, so how could you have gone back in time and kill your grandfather? Say you were born in 1950 and you went back to 1910 and kill grampa, if it's the same timeline, as time goes by to 1950 you're now not alive to go back and kill the old man. In a sense though, so what if you're not now alive in 1950? The deed was done when you were alive when you went back and killed him.

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#5    aquatus1

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 11:08 PM

Who cares when or where the hammer was made?  You still got hit.


#6    danielost

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 11:20 PM

View Postaquatus1, on 22 July 2010 - 09:21 PM, said:

I still don't get what's so paradoxical about it.  So what if you no longer exist after you kill your grandfather?  If you get hit by a hammer, and the hammer then disappears, you've still been hit by a hammer.


how ever if you get hit by the hammer and then it disappears before it hit you, did you get hit by the hammer.

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#7    aquatus1

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 12:14 AM

If you hadn't got hit by the hammer, it wouldn't have hit you.


#8    danielost

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 12:17 AM

View Postaquatus1, on 23 July 2010 - 12:14 AM, said:

If you hadn't got hit by the hammer, it wouldn't have hit you.
but if you get hit by the hammer and then go back two days and destroy that hammer how could the hammer have hit you.  this is the pardox.

I am a Mormon.  If I don't use Mormons believe, those my beliefs only.
I do not go to church haven't for thirty years.
There are other Mormons on this site. So if I have misspoken about the beliefs. I welcome their input.
I am not perfect and never will be. I do strive to be true to myself. I do my best to stay true to the Mormon faith. Thanks for caring and if you don't peace be with you.

#9    aquatus1

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 12:27 AM

Why would that matter?  You got hit by a hammer in the past.  If you go back to the past and remove the hammer, you did not get hit.  If you go back to the past to get a cheeseburger, and incidentally happen to remove the hammer, you still did not get hit.  Why you went back to the past is irrelevant to whether you got hit or not.


#10    danielost

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 12:31 AM

View Postaquatus1, on 23 July 2010 - 12:27 AM, said:

Why would that matter?  You got hit by a hammer in the past.  If you go back to the past and remove the hammer, you did not get hit.  If you go back to the past to get a cheeseburger, and incidentally happen to remove the hammer, you still did not get hit.  Why you went back to the past is irrelevant to whether you got hit or not.


now the grandfather affect.  you go back in time to before your father was conceived and kill your grandfather.

I am a Mormon.  If I don't use Mormons believe, those my beliefs only.
I do not go to church haven't for thirty years.
There are other Mormons on this site. So if I have misspoken about the beliefs. I welcome their input.
I am not perfect and never will be. I do strive to be true to myself. I do my best to stay true to the Mormon faith. Thanks for caring and if you don't peace be with you.

#11    aquatus1

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 12:33 AM

You are now guilty of grandpatericide.  Unless the prosecution can place you at 1936, or whenever the murder took place, you'll get off scot-free.


#12    Larving

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 12:39 AM

I prefere the theory (hypothesis?) that because the time traveller and his machine travels outside of time, they are not affected by changes to the past (their current present) that would change things for the future self. Though their future self will be affected.

But that has the problem of being able to add an almost infinite amount of matter and energy to the universe. Since the time traveler goes back, and performs an action that makes his future self travel back in time again, but travels to the point next to where the present time traveller is in the past. Creating 2 time travellers. These 2 time travellers then perform an action that causes their future self to travel back in time again, but travels to a point next to where the present time travellers are in the past. Now there are 3.  :lol:

Of course that goes against the laws of thermodynamics. But I'd doubt they'd stay relavent when it comes to timetravel.

(Oh and I have no clue whether or not "the traveller exists outside of time while traveling" makes any sense, it was just used to justify that alterations to his future self would neither affect him while in the past, nor if he returned to an altered future/present.)


#13    H.H. Holmes

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 01:29 AM

I like the theory of multiple realities to explain the grandfather paradox. If you travel back in time and kill your grandfather, then that consequence would lead to you not being born in an alternate reality. Therefore, you would still exist in the original reality that you first traveled back in time, yet not exist in the alternate reality that you created.

This is all purely theoretical, of course.

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#14    aquatus1

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 01:43 AM

I don't even see the need for separate timelines.  After all, cause and effect only applies when you are dealing with linear time.  If you are time traveling back and forth, you aren't dealing with linear time anymore, and cause and effect no longer apply.


#15    danielost

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 01:49 AM

View Postaquatus1, on 23 July 2010 - 12:33 AM, said:

You are now guilty of grandpatericide.  Unless the prosecution can place you at 1936, or whenever the murder took place, you'll get off scot-free.
sorry you never existed to go back to kill your granddad.

I am a Mormon.  If I don't use Mormons believe, those my beliefs only.
I do not go to church haven't for thirty years.
There are other Mormons on this site. So if I have misspoken about the beliefs. I welcome their input.
I am not perfect and never will be. I do strive to be true to myself. I do my best to stay true to the Mormon faith. Thanks for caring and if you don't peace be with you.




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