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Cro-Magnon


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#31    SlimJim22

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Posted 13 August 2010 - 03:11 PM

View Postcormac mac airt, on 13 August 2010 - 02:55 PM, said:

Besides the fact that we've been over this before, that is that your Grimaldi man IS Cro-Magnon and therefore irrelevant as a different form of human, Cro-Magnon is Homo sapiens sapiens. So what else would you expect from a member of HSS, but that they have characteristics of modern humans (HSS)?

Being us, they weren't wiped out. Following your train of thought, I suppose we ought to consider the Tutsi/Watusi as somehow less than HSS as well, considering they are bigger (in height) than the average person.

Cro-Magnon's are HSS. Finns, Basques and Berbers are HSS. You are trying to create a difference where none exists.

cormac

Ok, so HSS could grow to basketball player heights in pre history and through to the present and it is solely this difference in genetics that accounts for Cro Magnon, Grimaldi and the Watusi.

There is NO difference between them and us because they are us. It's worth explaining because in the long run I'm sure this will crop up time and again. To what extent have we been mislead about Cro Magnons in the past?

This site has made it much clearer but thanks for your comments Cormac as they make me look for better answers to my own innane questions.

http://www.ukmtpress...ress/id497.html

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#32    cormac mac airt

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Posted 13 August 2010 - 03:49 PM

View PostSlimJim22, on 13 August 2010 - 03:11 PM, said:

Ok, so HSS could grow to basketball player heights in pre history and through to the present and it is solely this difference in genetics that accounts for Cro Magnon, Grimaldi and the Watusi.

There is NO difference between them and us because they are us. It's worth explaining because in the long run I'm sure this will crop up time and again. To what extent have we been mislead about Cro Magnons in the past?

This site has made it much clearer but thanks for your comments Cormac as they make me look for better answers to my own innane questions.

http://www.ukmtpress...ress/id497.html

Read anything from the likes of Madame Blavatsky or R. Cedric Leonard, who use the term "Cro-Magnon" in an attempt to separate them from us and somehow make them an advanced civilization or even descendants of Atlantis. That's the only reason they use the term, to give them an air of relevancy that is totally unevidenced in the sciences. To include anthrogenealogy.

cormac

The city and citizens, which you yesterday described to us in fiction, we will now transfer to the world of reality. It shall be the ancient city of Athens, and we will suppose that the citizens whom you imagined, were our veritable ancestors, of whom the priest spoke; they will perfectly harmonise, and there will be no inconsistency in saying that the citizens of your republic are these ancient Athenians. --  Plato's Timaeus

#33    TheSearcher

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Posted 14 August 2010 - 01:53 AM

View Postcormac mac airt, on 13 August 2010 - 11:37 AM, said:

Hello TheSearcher,

Herein lies the problem, IMO. Both the brain AND the throat need to be of sufficient developement to even remotely approach modern, or near so, human speech and language. In Homo erectus, the brain was developing but the hyoid bone and surrounding structures were still in their infancy, so to speak. I'm not sure one could call the sounds they made a language, but surely it was an early form of communication.

cormac

Yes, I see what you mean. This said, I still think that a rudimentary language / communication was present. I just have a problem with the fact, that a being with evidence of complex problem solving abilities, had no way of actually communicating those complex ideas. If you are developed enough to make fire, and use it, then there must be more.
It might not have been something we would recognise, but there must have been some kind of language to communicate different ideas. Aaaaarrggh it' one of those what came first things.....that I hate so much

Edited by TheSearcher, 14 August 2010 - 01:54 AM.

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#34    Harte

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Posted 14 August 2010 - 02:45 AM

View PostTheSearcher, on 14 August 2010 - 01:53 AM, said:

Yes, I see what you mean. This said, I still think that a rudimentary language / communication was present. I just have a problem with the fact, that a being with evidence of complex problem solving abilities, had no way of actually communicating those complex ideas. If you are developed enough to make fire, and use it, then there must be more.
It might not have been something we would recognise, but there must have been some kind of language to communicate different ideas. Aaaaarrggh it' one of those what came first things.....that I hate so much
Don't worry, Searcher.

I'm a Homo Erectus promoter myself.  For a lot of reasons, but I'd do it anyway even if it was only for their hilarious name!

We don't know everything you know.  A month ago people thought A. Afarensis couldn't use tools.

There's still hope for a Homo Erectus Debate Society/Drama Club.

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"When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the connective tissue which prevents the mastication of the daily kill and to assume the separate and equal station to which the use of fire and knapped stone entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the method by which the blaze is engendered."

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Harte

Edited by Harte, 14 August 2010 - 03:25 AM.

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#35    wiredbadger

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Posted 14 August 2010 - 02:55 AM

View PostTheSearcher, on 14 August 2010 - 01:53 AM, said:

Yes, I see what you mean. This said, I still think that a rudimentary language / communication was present. I just have a problem with the fact, that a being with evidence of complex problem solving abilities, had no way of actually communicating those complex ideas. If you are developed enough to make fire, and use it, then there must be more.
It might not have been something we would recognise, but there must have been some kind of language to communicate different ideas. Aaaaarrggh it' one of those what came first things.....that I hate so much
Actually good man , dont confuse problem solving with complex language. hermit crabs with the shell solution. birds with the ambush from the tree solution. sharks with the electrical sense solution, including the lateral line which is shared by all fish. these are problem solving genius of life as a whole.says nothing of the intelligence or the complexity of their communication.
in anthropology , we learn about how lucy types would walk along a river bed 8 miles from where leakey found his hominid skeletons. how they would pick up on rock out of many, somehow knowing that it was the right rock.somehow knowing how it would cleave. carry it while they commit their foraging strategy, possibly along the treelines. knowing that the jaguar may have had a kill.upon finding it, they would fashion the stone implement at the spot.creating it, according to the means they saw fit.all the while knowing that the predator would gnaw at the large bone ends and therefore make it easier for them to hew off limbs. they then, would all congregate at this central spot. much like baboons do nowadays. all of this is awesome indeed, but guess what, they are not directly related to homo sapiens. there is in fact no single cladistic trait that can be identified in humans to be found in them. they have curved fingers, saggital crest, ape like hip sockets (meaning that bipedal was not their preferred choice) the mandible wasnt connect like ours and other things, that are explicitly sapiens was not present in them. yet they had this incredible knowledge. our species, is unique only in the ways that we are.meaning, we are bipedal by preference and habit. we have a physiological difference that is explicitly separate from other primates. yet, as i pointed out, Australopithecus had some amazing intelligence, or at least some form of amazing communication. as it stands , we human never did actually become as good as they were when it came to intuitively knowing the stones.(so i have heard) and it is hard for us to recreate the stone tools the way these hominid did.

Guess I am going to have to tell em , i ain't got no cerebellum. Now i have my phd, i am a teenage lobotomy.




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