998 replies to this topic

[Potholer]

You must have a lot to share, Ironghost, a lot of experiences? Would you share a few good ones?

I've got a question for you - how did you do a ouija board asleep? And how did this remove the ideomotor effect? Thoughts don't stop when sleep begins.

Thanks

P

[IronGhost]

Potholer, on 02 September 2009 - 08:51 PM, said:

You must have a lot to share, Ironghost, a lot of experiences? Would you share a few good ones?

I've got a question for you - how did you do a ouija board asleep? And how did this remove the ideomotor effect? Thoughts don't stop when sleep begins.

Thanks

P

Hi: Yes, I have a lot to share,and have posted quite a bit here on UM.  If you are interested, go read my UM column here:

http://www.unexplain...cat=Ken+Korczak

And you'll find a lot of my transcripts in this thread:

http://www.unexplain...oard users&st=0


As for there being no ideometer effect in the lucid dream state (in fact, there is none in the ordinary waking state either), while dreaming you do have thoughts, as you say, but you are not using your physical body to manipulate your environemnt. You are acting in a realm of pure thought, so to speak.

The ideometer effect is predicated on the notion that your physical hand is obeying some kind of "subconscious" command to make "unconscious" movements -- in the dreams state, you don't have any physical hands.  Your physical hands are sleeping with the rest of your physical body.

In the lucid dream state, I have often been able to induce a dream in which I am sitting in a room with an Ouija board -- in this case, the Ouija board is a projection of my dreaming mind, the room I am sitting in is being generated by my mind -- in short, it's like a virtual reality envornment generated by the brain -- although one must be careful not to oversimply this.

Over many, many years of lucid dream practice, it become rather difficult to believe that one's brain is generated the environment -- rather, there is a kind of holographic effect going on -- but I won't get into all that right now.

Thanks, potholer -- Cheers!

[Paranormalcy]

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I'm still curious, IronGhost, about how the Ouija while asleep thing works. Do you have a real one set up near your bed and when you go to sleep, somebody puts your hand on it and asks questions, or are you talking entirely subjectively in your sleep/mind/imagination/holographic universe? And I still don't see how this removed the ideomotor dynamic because the physicality of the process is only the affective component, the mind still has consistent thoughts or desires, even while asleep, that could be considered to be directed ideomotor effort, otherwise we wouldn't dream at all - it is our minds, as far as I'm aware current thought goes, that comes up with scenarios and objects, that we then also "choose" (not usually consciously in a dream) to pursue.

[When and Why]

Please, DON'T use ouija boards!! Even "experienced" people should not use them, let alone beginners! People don't understand what they are and what they do. You can't "command" a "ghost" to do anything... only bad things will happen if you use one. People think they're in control over something they specify, but do people consider specators on their little game? No, and that's the problem...If you don't believe in them, that's great, don't go near them. If you consider this warning a challenge, then here's hoping nothing happens to you (whether you realise it or not, as very few people actually have enough sight to see what's happening around them). Please... don't use ouija boards...

[IronGhost]

Paranormalcy, on 03 September 2009 - 02:04 AM, said:

<modhat>
General reminders:

- Please PM any discussion of UM Staff actions to a Mod or Saru, don't post it in the forums.
- Please remain civil and amiable, including not criticizing members' personal attributes, tendencies or behavior.

Back to the topic please, thank you.
</modhat>

I'm still curious, IronGhost, about how the Ouija while asleep thing works. Do you have a real one set up near your bed and when you go to sleep, somebody puts your hand on it and asks questions, or are you talking entirely subjectively in your sleep/mind/imagination/holographic universe? And I still don't see how this removed the ideomotor dynamic because the physicality of the process is only the affective component, the mind still has consistent thoughts or desires, even while asleep, that could be considered to be directed ideomotor effort, otherwise we wouldn't dream at all - it is our minds, as far as I'm aware current thought goes, that comes up with scenarios and objects, that we then also "choose" (not usually consciously in a dream) to pursue.

Sorry to take so long to reply, Para -- I've ben frittering away too much time with debates over in the "World Events" threads!

But, anyway, what I mean about conducting Ouina while asleep in programing lucid dream scenarios in which I conduction sessions while in the dream state -- my physical body is asleep, but my "mind" is awake within the dream world.

The ideometer effect is removed because this theory depends on the movement of the physical hands of the human body by mysterious "unconscious" promptings. In the dream state, you don't have your physical hands, but only your dream representation of your physical hands -- and much of the time you don't have to use even your dream hands in lucid dreaming ouija -- for example, the planchette may move all by itself -- or sometimes a troll or an alien will move the planchette for you within the dream.

I'm preparing a column on one of these events, which I will get done soon -- although I have touched on this in other columns here in which the "Triad of the Nine" manipulated the Ouija for me while I asked it questions.

As for your points about consistent thoughts and desires -- I will have to really think a lot more about how to respond to this more fully, because it is fantasticaly difficult to explain -- except to say that in 28 years of Zen meditation practice one comes to see that one does not really have any throughts or desires that were "real" in the first place -- and so you can, in a sense, shove them aside and approach the Ouija from a standpiont of perception only without conceptionalizing what might come across the board -- so, in a sense, the communication that comes across the board is like something that is being poured into an empty glass, and you don't judge the contents of the what goes into the glass ... you just look at it ...and let it be what it is

I mean, imagine some primitive human beings that have yet to develop individual ego-consciousness. They are still basically in herd mentality -- they don't see themselves as individuals, they don't use the word "I" because they don't have self-reflective ego consciousness-- but even they would be advanced over even more primtive humans who are completely absorbed into nature -- or what some philophers call "The Uroburos."

How would a "herd" of human being be able to comprehend a person who has achieved the full crystalization of an individual ego if none of them had an individual ego of their own?  There must have been a time in history when no human being had an ego -- this was a development that took thousands of years to evolve ...

So imagine then coming at the Ouija from a trans-ego state of conscisouness ... that's sort of what I'm talking about, although not explaining it very well -- it's the same difficulty of describing 3-D objects using only 2-D terminology ...

But in the lucid dream state (and also while being awake) you can relegate ego volition, desires, itents, etc. to the sidelines and then just sort of get what you get on the Ouija ...

[Aslan]

I remember this thread. Astonishing that it started nearly a decade ago. My ability to write meaningful drivel after six beers has, sadly, long faded. I'm still as angry as Hell, however. If a little more incoherent.

Edited by Aslan, 05 August 2011 - 07:01 PM.

[SmithNWesson]

There a Waste of time, ITs very clear that people are so nervous while playing the game that their finger muscles move the object withouth there knowledge. its a great scam though, People will believe anything you tell them, just sprinkle some sugar on it.

[Aslan]

SmithNWesson, on 05 August 2011 - 07:07 PM, said:

There a Waste of time, ITs very clear that people are so nervous while playing the game that their finger muscles move the object withouth there knowledge

Ah. But then, some things never change.

Edited by Aslan, 05 August 2011 - 07:13 PM.

[Lakota 1]

Saru said:

Has anyone here ever used a Ouija Board ? I'm curious to hear what experiences other people have had with them. I've heard some very interesting and really quite amazing accounts of Ouija Board related experiences over the years. Feel free to tell us about your own Ouija Board experiences by posting them as a reply to this thread.

We want to hear from you !

<img src="http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink2.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="wink2.gif" />

I have. It was around 50 years ago. I was playing around asking who was there and asking spirits to come thru the board...and they did. I opened a portal and got some bad entity coming after me. It took me 7 years to get rid of it. My advice, don't EVER touch one.  Yes they work, and yes , they are bad news.