Jump to content




Welcome to Unexplained Mysteries! Please sign in or create an account to start posting and to access a host of extra features.


- - - - -

where did the "sumerians" come from?


  • Please log in to reply
243 replies to this topic

#166    Harte

Harte

    Supremely Educated Knower of Everything in Existence

  • Member
  • 9,319 posts
  • Joined:06 Aug 2006
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Memphis

  • Skeptic

Posted 05 September 2010 - 03:16 AM

View PostBr Cornelius, on 04 September 2010 - 10:13 AM, said:

On a more serious note here is a good study of the history of the study of the "Sumerian Problem";

http://www.antropolo...A/sha-04-07.pdf

Br Cornelius
Nice file there Brother.  Thanks.

Harte

I've consulted all the sages I could find in yellow pages but there aren't many of them. - The Alan Parsons Project
Most people would die sooner than think; in fact, they do so. - Bertrand Russell
Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong. - Thomas Jefferson
Giorgio's dying Ancient Aliens internet forum

#167    Br Cornelius

Br Cornelius

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 10,779 posts
  • Joined:13 Aug 2008
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Eire

  • Stupid Monkeys.

    Life Sucks.
    Get over it.

Posted 05 September 2010 - 08:23 AM

View Postjaylemurph, on 05 September 2010 - 01:01 AM, said:

Wouldn't be the first time people around here got bored because history wasn't flashy enough for them. I guess there's a reason every piece of pseudo-historical hokum is plastered over with "amazing new facts!" and "mind-blowing truths!"

--Jaylemurph

I asked for specific comments on the linguist links to the Austric language groups as I feel it is the only strong clue anyone has actually brought up. If I am right or wrong on this then I would like to be enlightened as to why. If it is true then they came from the east then that points to some form of culture in the east predating Sumaria. That gels with what I have studied.

Br Cornelius

I believe nothing, but I have my suspicions.

Robert Anton Wilson

#168    Abramelin

Abramelin

    -

  • Member
  • 18,111 posts
  • Joined:07 May 2005
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:"Here the tide is ruled, by the wind, the moon and us."

  • God created the world, but the Dutch created the Netherlands

Posted 05 September 2010 - 03:45 PM

View PostBr Cornelius, on 04 September 2010 - 10:13 AM, said:

On a more serious note here is a good study of the history of the study of the "Sumerian Problem";

http://www.antropolo...A/sha-04-07.pdf

Br Cornelius


I read the pdf, and I doesn't clear up anything at all.

The conclusion we can make reading that pdf: "we don't know".


#169    SlimJim22

SlimJim22

    Alien Abducter

  • Member
  • 4,682 posts
  • Joined:10 Dec 2009
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Wales

  • "As far as we can discern, the sole purpose of human existence is to kindle a light in the darkness of mere being." Carl Jung

Posted 05 September 2010 - 04:16 PM

The sumerians coexisted with the Elamites but there is one main difference in the way they were depicted. The Elamites wore ful beards and the Sumerians a shaven lip. I dunno if this highlights anything or if it was just ancient fashion.

http://www.third-mil...PTER_10_II.html

The thing with ancient cultures is that they are never fit neatly into categories because there is usually more than one answer and a great deal of over lapping influence. Due to the location of Sumer they could take influence from all sides. How could we ever get a clear picture of a single origin?

This link describes some of the lesser culture of the time preceding Sumer.

http://www.telusplan...rneau/euro5.htm

http://www.hermetism...an Language.pdf

There are so many possibilities that I think an intermingling of all four directions is conceivable but to say they were Finno-Ugric over Elamite or Indo-Austric lacks sufficient evidence imo.

"I belive no thing, I follow the Law of One. I am a Man-O'-Sion under construction."

#170    Br Cornelius

Br Cornelius

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 10,779 posts
  • Joined:13 Aug 2008
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Eire

  • Stupid Monkeys.

    Life Sucks.
    Get over it.

Posted 05 September 2010 - 04:19 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 05 September 2010 - 03:45 PM, said:

I read the pdf, and I doesn't clear up anything at all.

The conclusion we can make reading that pdf: "we don't know".

It was purely a piece of context to the discussion.

Br Cornelius

I believe nothing, but I have my suspicions.

Robert Anton Wilson

#171    Abramelin

Abramelin

    -

  • Member
  • 18,111 posts
  • Joined:07 May 2005
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:"Here the tide is ruled, by the wind, the moon and us."

  • God created the world, but the Dutch created the Netherlands

Posted 05 September 2010 - 04:19 PM

View PostSlimJim22, on 05 September 2010 - 04:16 PM, said:

The sumerians coexisted with the Elamites but there is one main difference in the way they were depicted. The Elamites wore ful beards and the Sumerians a shaven lip. I dunno if this highlights anything or if it was just ancient fashion.

http://www.third-mil...PTER_10_II.html

The thing with ancient cultures is that they are never fit neatly into categories because there is usually more than one answer and a great deal of over lapping influence. Due to the location of Sumer they could take influence from all sides. How could we ever get a clear picture of a single origin?

This link describes some of the lesser culture of the time preceding Sumer.

http://www.telusplan...rneau/euro5.htm

http://www.hermetism...an Language.pdf

There are so many possibilities that I think an intermingling of all four directions is conceivable but to say they were Finno-Ugric over Elamite or Indo-Austric lacks sufficient evidence imo.


DNA will prove it all.

We can all dance around eachother posting links to nice and informative sites, but the DNA will give us final answers.

All the rest is just a way to spend our spare time.


#172    SlimJim22

SlimJim22

    Alien Abducter

  • Member
  • 4,682 posts
  • Joined:10 Dec 2009
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Wales

  • "As far as we can discern, the sole purpose of human existence is to kindle a light in the darkness of mere being." Carl Jung

Posted 05 September 2010 - 05:14 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 05 September 2010 - 04:19 PM, said:

DNA will prove it all.

We can all dance around eachother posting links to nice and informative sites, but the DNA will give us final answers.

All the rest is just a way to spend our spare time.

Agreed but the likes of Buxton and Rice examined cranium belonging to sumerians yet no DNA apparently survived the examinations. Unless some more skeletons are dug up how will we get the required DNA. Even then what if the DNA showed a fusion of ethnicities? Then what? We are still little better off than before.

More information sites.  :D

http://www.sjsu.edu/...tkins/sumer.htm

http://history-world.org/sumeria.htm

http://www.buildingh...neolithic.shtml

Looking at a map pf Sumer, it is illogical to place a northern origin before a southern/eastern one. Granted at later points migrations from the north and west would have added to the racial mix or there may have been some common culture that was more widely spread. As Eridu was the first city of Sumer an origin in Ethiopia or the Indus valley seems the most likely imo. That is just my logic and perhaps it is flawed. Here's some basic maps of the area. Sorry to use Rohls site again but they feature the areas in question.

Why don't you compare distances from places to Eridu and see what routes would be the easiest to make? Alternatively, maybe Sumer did just evolve out of the cultures already present in Mesopatamia. This does not fit right with me personally because of the emphasis on the sumerian myths and the way they lack a unified identity.

http://www.davidrohl...ic_race_11.html

I don't get genetics aswell as some of you guys so please bring anything relevant from the building history link to our attention.

"I belive no thing, I follow the Law of One. I am a Man-O'-Sion under construction."

#173    joeb83nj

joeb83nj

    Alien Embryo

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 1 posts
  • Joined:17 Jul 2013

Posted 17 July 2013 - 12:42 PM

Aus Der Box Skeptisch

I have been doing some research on this topic on my own. I am looking at this very question of where did Sumerians come from. I have been very interested in the beginning of human civilization particularly on the Sumerians which was human's first civilization. They were so advanced for their time in terms of writing, science and astronomy. I have heard many theroys including some far feched theories that Sumerian culture was influenced by some extra-terrestrial source. I am a scientist by nature so I don't jump to that conclusion immediatly until I see some proof of this. But there is evident through their tablets and writtings that they knew things as far reaching as planets such as Neptune and Saturn and that the solar system was centered around the Sun, all this without the aid of a telescope.

The Arabian Peninsula is where homo sapiens really began once we migrated out of Africa. Using mitochondrial DNA scientists can actually trace when different tribes of humans migrated based on human remains. It is theorized that there were only 1,000 to 10,000 breading pairs of humans once we migrated out of Africa and this can account for most the human polulation comes from these pairs. So for me its trying to connect the dots.

I am actually looking at reading the Bible ( I am not a Bible perons by any nature, and I am not that religious) partiularly the Old Testemant. It is thought to be fairly accurate in terms of description of events. The Jewish people wrote many of the writings by hand during certain key events so they can sometimes be seen as a first hand account.


#174    jaylemurph

jaylemurph

    Lector Historiae

  • Member
  • 8,905 posts
  • Joined:02 Nov 2006
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Seattle, WA

  • "You can lead a whore to culture, but you can't make him think." Dorothy Parker

Posted 17 July 2013 - 06:19 PM

View Postjoeb83nj, on 17 July 2013 - 12:42 PM, said:

I am actually looking at reading the Bible ( I am not a Bible perons by any nature, and I am not that religious) partiularly the Old Testemant. It is thought to be fairly accurate in terms of description of events. The Jewish people wrote many of the writings by hand during certain key events so they can sometimes be seen as a first hand account.

By using a passive construction, you weasel out of the onus of saying who, exactly, thinks the Bible to be fairly accurate. Certainly it isn't historians. But to try to use the Bible as an historical document is doomed to failure. It wasn't what it was created for: the representation of historical facts is incidental to its actual purpose, religious propaganda. The Bible shows you all the swell things that happen to people who believe the version of god it espouses, and all the bad things to people who do not. Trying to use the Bible to study history is like trying to grill a steak with a garden hose.

--Jaylemurph

"... amongst the most obstinate of our opinions may be classed those which derive from discussions in which we affect to search for the truth, while in reality we are only fortifying prejudice."     -- James Fenimore Cooper, The Pathfinder

Posted Image

Deeply venial

#175    laver

laver

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,204 posts
  • Joined:02 Jan 2013

Posted 18 July 2013 - 03:31 PM

View Postjaylemurph, on 17 July 2013 - 06:19 PM, said:

By using a passive construction, you weasel out of the onus of saying who, exactly, thinks the Bible to be fairly accurate. Certainly it isn't historians. But to try to use the Bible as an historical document is doomed to failure. It wasn't what it was created for: the representation of historical facts is incidental to its actual purpose, religious propaganda. The Bible shows you all the swell things that happen to people who believe the version of god it espouses, and all the bad things to people who do not. Trying to use the Bible to study history is like trying to grill a steak with a garden hose.

--Jaylemurph

Agreed that the bible has been written with massive spin but reading between the lines can be a useful exercise


#176    Truthseeker007

Truthseeker007

    Ectoplasmic Residue

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 223 posts
  • Joined:22 Jul 2013
  • Gender:Male

Posted 27 July 2013 - 04:38 AM

View PostAus Der Box Skeptisch, on 25 August 2010 - 01:41 AM, said:

I have read a cornucopia of information regarding the sumerians. Yet, one glaring question remains for me. "Where did they come from? They literally had their own language that didn't seem to relate to any know speech from the area. It seemed like cuneiform was an already established form of writing for them. While most of their advances with farming and such simply came with time and the first "civilization" grew from what they had started I ask you, how were they so individualized and advanced at that time?

To quote a webpage I was glancing at which gave rise to this post:
http://history-world.org/sumeria.htm
The original homeland of the Sumerians is unknown. It is believed that they came from the east, but whether by sea or from the highlands is unknown. Their language is not related to those major language families that later appear in the Near East - Semites and Indo-Europeans. (The original home of the Semitic-speaking peoples is thought to have been the Arabian peninsula, while the Indo-Europeans seem to be migrated from the region north of the Black and Caspian seas. A third, much smaller language family is the Hamitic, which included the Egyptians and other peoples of northeastern Africa.)

I hope to see a good discussion soon. As this query in particular is quite intriguing to me.
Thank you in advance.

Enlil and Enki according to the Sumarian Tablets. i have some channeled material here which may be of some interest. You can believe it or not. Either way I don't care. It makes sense to me.

Cosmic Awareness:
This Awareness indicates that this relates to that which this Awareness has given in the reference to Enlil and Enki, in the time of Sumer and Ur; this approximately 20.000 years ago in that which is Mesopotamia; that this in the area of the Tigris and Euphrates rivers were the so-called origin of civilization began. It was not so much the origin of the races or the origin of humanity, but it was a new origin of civilization in that agriculture was introduced during that time. The agriculture which has continued to this day, where certain fruits, vegetables and crops were given to these entities and have spread throughout the world from that area, and whereby these entities were the first of a creation of the Cro-Magnon type of human, or that which has been called the prototype for Adam and Eve. This Awareness indicates that Adam and Eve in this sense were not of the white race, as many believed, but were of the black race. This Awareness wishes of course to clarify this, in suggesting that Adam and Eve were not single individuals; they were a type of human, but as one would say the first Cro-Magnon human on Earth was of the black race rather than of the white race, male and female were they.


This Awareness indicates that Adam represents the Cro-Magnon type of person, the Homo Erectus, the entity who stands erect as compared to the earlier Neanderthal types.


This Awareness indicates the DNA code of the individuals contains the memory of past evolutionary levels, from reptilian, and up to the present condition or genetic development of the physical. This Awareness indicates that additions to this genetic code through interference such as described by the mating of the "sons of god" with those of the daughters of man; this interference with the natural movement of the genetic code, can and did create certain mutations which allowed for a more vital altering and growth in the movement of evolution, so that mankind underwent drastic change in a short period of time.

This Awareness indicates that these alterations occurred at different times, as the human species began to change shape and form and moved more toward the upright manner of walking, and as these changes occurred, these were influenced by either by alterations caused by changes in nature itself, which caused the fetus to mutate or were caused by alterations associated with the mating of higher celestial beings with those of the physical plane. This Awareness indicates that which is referred to as the "sons of god," as in reality being reference to extraterrestrial beings who have had their influence on entities on this plane.

This Awareness indicates that the earth itself represents influences from a number of space civilizations, that there are approximately 23 such space civilizations having influenced the nature of the general population of Earth.

The Three ways Man Was Created

Question:


Well, then essentially then there are three basic routes that man, as we understand today, evolved or came to this plane. One: through the natural evolution, though the group soul of animals; the second through the extraterrestrials; and the third as indicated by the works of entities like Jehovah, creating clones. Is that correct?

Answer:
This is in the affirmative. This through natural genetic influence caused by environmental changes, or caused by the necessity of that which has been referred to as the survival of the fittest, or the Law of Adaptation; and that which has occurred through genetic tampering, or artificial coding of cells and the DNA genetic codes, that which may be termed genetic engineering, such as was accomplished by Jehovah and others; and that which occurred through selective breeding, such as through the "sons of god," and the daughters of man, or of other forms of selective breeding, such as accomplished through the creation of pedigree animals or others.


Read more:


http://home.iae.nl/u...originraces.htm


and:


http://home.iae.nl/u...mancamefrom.htm



Spiral Symbolism:
Evolution and holistic growth:Letting go, surrender, release
Awareness of the one within the context of the whole
Connectivity and union with deific and cosmic energies

"Connectivity to the Divine" observation

#177    Vishal1Raelian

Vishal1Raelian

    Alien Embryo

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 2 posts
  • Joined:28 Jul 2013

Posted 28 July 2013 - 05:55 AM

Sumerians were the people who once lived in Iraq some 4000 yrs ago. They worship Anunakis as their Creators. They(Sumerians) were very advanced civilization. They(Sumerians) believe that Anunakis came from Planet X. Sumerians were invented by Aliens.

UFO


#178    laver

laver

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,204 posts
  • Joined:02 Jan 2013

Posted 28 July 2013 - 10:21 AM

View PostVishal1Raelian, on 28 July 2013 - 05:55 AM, said:

Sumerians were the people who once lived in Iraq some 4000 yrs ago. They worship Anunakis as their Creators. They(Sumerians) were very advanced civilization. They(Sumerians) believe that Anunakis came from Planet X. Sumerians were invented by Aliens.

UFO

Some 'outside' influence on the developement of humankind is not an unreasonable proposition even the bible indicates this. In Sumerian myth it is the Goddess who is the prime mover in this 'creation' . The 'spin' in the Old Testament attempts to reverse this with a rehash of the 'rib' story etc.... Motive ?
Maybe just simple misogyny, there was a lot of this about when the bible was put together.....as there still is.......


#179    jaylemurph

jaylemurph

    Lector Historiae

  • Member
  • 8,905 posts
  • Joined:02 Nov 2006
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Seattle, WA

  • "You can lead a whore to culture, but you can't make him think." Dorothy Parker

Posted 28 July 2013 - 06:14 PM

View PostVishal1Raelian, on 28 July 2013 - 05:55 AM, said:

Sumerians were the people who once lived in Iraq some 4000 yrs ago. They worship Anunakis as their Creators. They(Sumerians) were very advanced civilization. They(Sumerians) believe that Anunakis came from Planet X. Sumerians were invented by Aliens.

UFO

You should ground yourself in some actual truth, not Sitchin-ian claptrap. The Sumerians did not worship anyone/anything called the Anunaki. Annunaki is not even a Sumerian word. It's Akkadian, meaning it's from the Sumerians cultural successors almost 1,000 years later. Additionally, the Sumerians had no knoweldge/awareness of anything like a Planet X. It's unlikely that they even had a conception of the wandering stars they called planets as something similar to Earth.

Sheesh.

--Jaylemurph

"... amongst the most obstinate of our opinions may be classed those which derive from discussions in which we affect to search for the truth, while in reality we are only fortifying prejudice."     -- James Fenimore Cooper, The Pathfinder

Posted Image

Deeply venial

#180    cormac mac airt

cormac mac airt

    Telekinetic

  • Member
  • 7,676 posts
  • Joined:18 Jun 2008
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tennessee, USA

Posted 28 July 2013 - 06:40 PM

View PostVishal1Raelian, on 28 July 2013 - 05:55 AM, said:

Sumerians were the people who once lived in Iraq some 4000 yrs ago. They worship Anunakis as their Creators. They(Sumerians) were very advanced civilization. They(Sumerians) believe that Anunakis came from Planet X. Sumerians were invented by Aliens.

UFO

Not quite. The Annunaki (Anunna deities) were actually lords of the underworld. The creator gods An, Enlil, Enki and Ninhursanga were not Annunaki but predominantly sky/mountain gods.

The Sumerians believed no such thing, contrary to the meaningless ramblings of Zechariah Sitchin and the like.

cormac

The city and citizens, which you yesterday described to us in fiction, we will now transfer to the world of reality. It shall be the ancient city of Athens, and we will suppose that the citizens whom you imagined, were our veritable ancestors, of whom the priest spoke; they will perfectly harmonise, and there will be no inconsistency in saying that the citizens of your republic are these ancient Athenians. --  Plato's Timaeus




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users