Jump to content




Welcome to Unexplained Mysteries! Please sign in or create an account to start posting and to access a host of extra features.


- - - - -

Plato's Atlantis -- Made Up or Based on Fact?


  • Please log in to reply
767 replies to this topic

#751    Qoais

Qoais

    Government Agent

  • Member
  • 3,268 posts
  • Joined:08 Nov 2007
  • Gender:Female

Posted 11 October 2010 - 08:41 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 09 October 2010 - 12:26 PM, said:

I already replied to your post, Qoais, but by coincident I found out where you got that image from:

http://www.atlantis-bakhu.com/
http://www.atlantis-...10/figure-7.jpg

You will remember the Wells guy who had a theorie about Atlantis island being North West Africa, and who started a thread about it, "Atlantis Bakhu".

.
Actually, I'd forgotten about that.  Someone over at Atlantis Online seems to be impressed with it, and I just took it from there as I had just read your previous post and thought it fit with the idea.

An open-minded view of the past allows for an unprejudiced glimpse into the future.

Intuitive knowledge is knowledge beyond intellectual reasoning.

"Intellectual brilliance is no guarantee against being dead wrong."

#752    Abramelin

Abramelin

    -

  • Member
  • 18,108 posts
  • Joined:07 May 2005
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:"Here the tide is ruled, by the wind, the moon and us."

  • God created the world, but the Dutch created the Netherlands

Posted 11 October 2010 - 12:26 PM

View Postcormac mac airt, on 10 October 2010 - 06:39 AM, said:

College is not necessarily needed, to become educated. I've never been to college. All it really requires is a desire to learn, and keep learning, particularly about things that really interest a person. The trick is to learn from the best possible sources, which ARE NOT fringe theorists or book writers or people delving WAAAAAYYY outside their particular area of expertise, simply because they feel that all opinions are equal. They're not.

cormac

But Cormac, I think I can safely assume you did basic school and highschool.

Because even if you have never done college, at least you have the 'tools' to study on your own.

The 'tools' I talk about is the dicipline we all were taught in basic school and highschool, that together with knowing how to tackle a study, where to start, who to ask, what to consider valuable info and what not, and so on.

If most you did during your youth was get up at 4 AM and milk cows and all that, then leave for a 'better future', but end up in a war, marry after the war, get kids, work again hard like a dog in every dirty job you could lay your hands on to feed your family and getting home so tired all you want to do is relax and sleep....and then 'suddenly' you are 50 something.

Despite the fact my father never even finished basic school, he knew a lot about animals (horses, cows, dogs, whatever) and plants, just from experience. In his later life he was known as a man with 'green fingers'; he could make anything grow.

He had learned, but not on college level, and certainly not theories and science.

Oh, he wanted to learn, but he preferred to learn from direct experience and from what he learned by asking people who did study.


#753    cormac mac airt

cormac mac airt

    Telekinetic

  • Member
  • 7,529 posts
  • Joined:18 Jun 2008
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tennessee, USA

Posted 11 October 2010 - 01:59 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 11 October 2010 - 12:26 PM, said:

But Cormac, I think I can safely assume you did basic school and highschool.

Because even if you have never done college, at least you have the 'tools' to study on your own.

The 'tools' I talk about is the dicipline we all were taught in basic school and highschool, that together with knowing how to tackle a study, where to start, who to ask, what to consider valuable info and what not, and so on.

If most you did during your youth was get up at 4 AM and milk cows and all that, then leave for a 'better future', but end up in a war, marry after the war, get kids, work again hard like a dog in every dirty job you could lay your hands on to feed your family and getting home so tired all you want to do is relax and sleep....and then 'suddenly' you are 50 something.

Despite the fact my father never even finished basic school, he knew a lot about animals (horses, cows, dogs, whatever) and plants, just from experience. In his later life he was known as a man with 'green fingers'; he could make anything grow.

He had learned, but not on college level, and certainly not theories and science.

Oh, he wanted to learn, but he preferred to learn from direct experience and from what he learned by asking people who did study.

Yes, Abramelin, I agree with everything you said. The point I was trying to make is that a College education IS NOT NECESSARY to actually being educated. All it requires is a desire to learn. Even with your dad, he must have had a desire to learn on some level, to be known as "a man with green fingers". Your example rather makes my point for me, as your dad also had those "tools". They may not have been College developed, but they were every bit as valuable.

cormac

The city and citizens, which you yesterday described to us in fiction, we will now transfer to the world of reality. It shall be the ancient city of Athens, and we will suppose that the citizens whom you imagined, were our veritable ancestors, of whom the priest spoke; they will perfectly harmonise, and there will be no inconsistency in saying that the citizens of your republic are these ancient Athenians. --  Plato's Timaeus

#754    kmt_sesh

kmt_sesh

    Telekinetic

  • 7,532 posts
  • Joined:08 Jul 2007
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Chicago, Illinois

Posted 11 October 2010 - 05:14 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 11 October 2010 - 12:26 PM, said:

But Cormac, I think I can safely assume you did basic school and highschool.

Because even if you have never done college, at least you have the 'tools' to study on your own.

The 'tools' I talk about is the dicipline we all were taught in basic school and highschool, that together with knowing how to tackle a study, where to start, who to ask, what to consider valuable info and what not, and so on.

If most you did during your youth was get up at 4 AM and milk cows and all that, then leave for a 'better future', but end up in a war, marry after the war, get kids, work again hard like a dog in every dirty job you could lay your hands on to feed your family and getting home so tired all you want to do is relax and sleep....and then 'suddenly' you are 50 something.

Despite the fact my father never even finished basic school, he knew a lot about animals (horses, cows, dogs, whatever) and plants, just from experience. In his later life he was known as a man with 'green fingers'; he could make anything grow.

He had learned, but not on college level, and certainly not theories and science.

Oh, he wanted to learn, but he preferred to learn from direct experience and from what he learned by asking people who did study.


View Postcormac mac airt, on 11 October 2010 - 01:59 PM, said:

Yes, Abramelin, I agree with everything you said. The point I was trying to make is that a College education IS NOT NECESSARY to actually being educated. All it requires is a desire to learn. Even with your dad, he must have had a desire to learn on some level, to be known as "a man with green fingers". Your example rather makes my point for me, as your dad also had those "tools". They may not have been College developed, but they were every bit as valuable.

cormac

I am one who was fortunate to obtain that college level. In fact I have a couple of college degrees. I feel very grateful and indeed lucky for having had that experience. Does this somehow make me better or smarter than anyone else at UM? Hell no. I know at times I must come across as an intellectual snob, which usually shows itself the most when I'm debating someone of an extreme fringe bent, but a college degree does not mean you get to wear a cape. Well, I do at home, because I like the look of it. Only kidding. :P  Don't get me wrong, I will always promote and stress the idea of higher education, but UM alone shows how intelligent people can be just be educating themselves. There are so many resources available to anyone and everyone that, in all honesty, no one has an excuse not to continue to educate themselves. (Given the chance and the means, however, I would gladly become one of those professional students. I know, sad. However, I don't have the means, so I don't have the chance.)

In the end it's the sources to which one turns that ultimately matter the most. I once had an instructor who liked to say: "Practice doesn't make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect." I've always remembered that maxim, and I think it applies to historical research, too. Good and reliable sources provide good and reliable results on which others can build; fringe sources contribute nothing of use to our overall understanding.

Cormac, you've said how you did not go to college. Just the same, in your time here you have taught me a hell of a lot. And Abramelin, your father strikes me as a very wise man--wiser than many of us here, and wise in all the ways that really matter. :)

Posted Image
Words of wisdom from Richard Clopton:
For every credibility gap there is a gullibility fill.

Visit My Blog!

#755    Abramelin

Abramelin

    -

  • Member
  • 18,108 posts
  • Joined:07 May 2005
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:"Here the tide is ruled, by the wind, the moon and us."

  • God created the world, but the Dutch created the Netherlands

Posted 11 October 2010 - 06:18 PM

View Postkmt_sesh, on 11 October 2010 - 05:14 PM, said:

I am one who was fortunate to obtain that college level. In fact I have a couple of college degrees. I feel very grateful and indeed lucky for having had that experience. Does this somehow make me better or smarter than anyone else at UM? Hell no. I know at times I must come across as an intellectual snob, which usually shows itself the most when I'm debating someone of an extreme fringe bent, but a college degree does not mean you get to wear a cape. Well, I do at home, because I like the look of it. Only kidding. :P  Don't get me wrong, I will always promote and stress the idea of higher education, but UM alone shows how intelligent people can be just be educating themselves. There are so many resources available to anyone and everyone that, in all honesty, no one has an excuse not to continue to educate themselves. (Given the chance and the means, however, I would gladly become one of those professional students. I know, sad. However, I don't have the means, so I don't have the chance.)

In the end it's the sources to which one turns that ultimately matter the most. I once had an instructor who liked to say: "Practice doesn't make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect." I've always remembered that maxim, and I think it applies to historical research, too. Good and reliable sources provide good and reliable results on which others can build; fringe sources contribute nothing of use to our overall understanding.

Cormac, you've said how you did not go to college. Just the same, in your time here you have taught me a hell of a lot. And Abramelin, your father strikes me as a very wise man--wiser than many of us here, and wise in all the ways that really matter. :)

Studying does not make one smarter, it makes on less naive, to say the least.

Those who love fringe theories and reject science are those who resist to acknowledge that whatever they believed in might not be true.

And from there we get to conspiracy theories...sigh.

"You wake me up from a nice dream, and I will hate you for that", lol.

And I have been there.

And about my father (thanks for what you said about him, btw), yes, despite him being more Catholic than our dear Pope, he loved to be challenged, and he was never afraid to be confronted with something he found hard to swallow and to eventuelly be convinced of the opposite he always believed in.

One of my last talks with him was about life after death.. and I never knew he asked me because he knew he hadn't much time left. And I answered him as the skeptic I started to become back then....

Sometimes it is better to lie.



EDIT:

Before all this starts te get a bit too dramatic - mea culpa - I'd like to say my father had a great sense of humor.

Humor was his way to deal with things that bothered him.

That , together with his great way of story-telling (in my view he could have been some shaman if he had lived thousands of years before), is the way I remember him.

.

Edited by Abramelin, 11 October 2010 - 06:40 PM.


#756    SlimJim22

SlimJim22

    Alien Abducter

  • Member
  • 4,682 posts
  • Joined:10 Dec 2009
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Wales

  • "As far as we can discern, the sole purpose of human existence is to kindle a light in the darkness of mere being." Carl Jung

Posted 11 October 2010 - 08:04 PM

Touching story. I think there is a difference between intelligence and wisdom. Maybe depth of knowledge is a better phrase than intelligence but the point is that knowledge is taught where as wisdom is gained from experience. It sounds like Abe senior was very intelligent and could work things out for himself. That is a real skill.

Comparing science to the fringe is a bit of an unfair fight really. Mythology, philosophy and metaphysics are not fringe but they are not science either. Facts are useful up to a point but innevitably facts must be interpreted. Before we can perform science it must be theorized first. All in all I'm happy to make countless mistakes because I am not attached to the knowledge I pick up. Sometimes it stands others it gets replaced with more rational thinking. Ultimately, there is a place for imagination imo because with ancient history there is no certainties.

Personally, I think it's likely that Plato's works were meant in part as teaching tools to promote discussion and greater learning. Sometimes the most powerful answers are not the obvious ones and this is why I think there is so much ambiguity and scope for interpretation. I don't think it was intended to be accepted as fact but as a catalyst for further learning and that is where I see the value lying.

"I belive no thing, I follow the Law of One. I am a Man-O'-Sion under construction."

#757    M.A.D CapeBretoner

M.A.D CapeBretoner

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,416 posts
  • Joined:23 Feb 2012

Posted 12 October 2010 - 12:47 AM

For me it was a search for God and the people of the Atlantic came up along the way, it seemed to come together when I found the root of my being where I could see that from within and that from without.

Throw in Geology with tectonic plate movement and you get the location, that is written in stone.
That's what would be all that is left for this place is ancient in day's.
Lest not forget that God hide himself from man and all is kept secret, ahh but if one finds God within should'nt the next step be finding God from without.


#758    M.A.D CapeBretoner

M.A.D CapeBretoner

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,416 posts
  • Joined:23 Feb 2012

Posted 12 October 2010 - 01:18 AM

If he is coming out of the shadow's and if I'm on a search for God, then into the shadow's I must go.
Someone once said "To find the Spirit one must clime the steps of Matter, and to find God one must clime the steps of human consciousness


#759    Xpeople

Xpeople

    Extraterrestrial Entity

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 448 posts
  • Joined:28 Sep 2010

Posted 12 October 2010 - 12:49 PM

It seem highly unlike that Antarctica was the place of Atlantis.  There is no places to support a large population. Even now there are only a hand full of people there, and no large city.  10,000 BC was the start of the end of the last ice age.  The polar ice were way bigger than they are now.  There is no evidence of a human presents of any type.  

There are also better location.  The Caribbean Islands would have been more likely location.  Unfortunately, when the European arrive there were mostly hunter and gatherer. Nothing like Atlantis.


#760    granpa

granpa

    Remote Viewer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 521 posts
  • Joined:14 May 2011
  • Gender:Not Selected
  • Location:California

Posted 14 May 2011 - 03:40 AM

Atlantis was said to be outside the straights of Gibraltar. Of course there is nothing there but the atlantic ocean.

when sea level was lower during the last ice age there would have a straight between Italy and Libya. I wonder if atlantis was simply an island beyond that straight.

I have cooked you a meal, cut it into little pieces, and set it before you  but I'm not going to chew it for you
And no one is forcing you to eat it. If you dont want it then dont eat it.

I am not a big believer in science by combat.
Arguing doesn't establish who is right. Arguing only establishes who is the better arguer.

#761    Proclus

Proclus

    Apparition

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 271 posts
  • Joined:30 Dec 2012
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Frankfurt, Germany

  • Academic approaches towards Atlantis as a real place!

Posted 13 June 2013 - 10:08 PM

Abramelin cited:

"Sometimes, her underworld was not hot but ice cold, as if serving as a model for Dante's innermost circle of the Inferno."

Atlantis-Newsletter 58: Atlantis in Dante's Inferno?!

http://www.atlantis-...wsl_archive.htm

Dante talks of submerging continents ... the fall of Phaeton? ... "king" Atlas?

This is interesting!

Academic approaches towards Atlantis as a real place: www.Atlantis-Scout.de!

#762    wondertemple

wondertemple

    Alien Embryo

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 30 posts
  • Joined:09 May 2013

Posted 26 June 2013 - 01:17 AM

The Story of Atlantis is the story of how the megalithic structures were linked around the earth to form an equator than gave them direction to Heaven's Gate in the North Pole and off planet.  The Story of Atlantis is how the Greeks (white man) began to understand not only the Genesis and the Great Flood but the cosmic signposts that illustrated the threats that Comets bring when they fall to earth.  

Gobekli Tepe built during the first Atlantis phase of destruction circa 9997 BC-9660 BC
9997- 5601 years of human kings = 4396 BC = Adam Born as Cheops the Great. (Source is Seth was born in knowledge of Book of the Dead as dated 4266 BC)  My theory is Adam is Cheops, the first man who is also Job.  
The Atlantis story is from a Comet Myth which spurned the Great Flood and sunk Mesopotamia and Turkey in 2807 or 2194 or 920 BC.  This was the also the Mayan start of the Fourth World Age, theoretically placed in 3113 BC.
The destruction of the twin towers in new york is the most current theme of pillars/written information pertaining to the freemasonic idea of Plus Ultra, the land of milk and honey, the new atlantis, and so the pillars of Hercules are destroyed in the city of the big Apples.  The date of ADAM from 4396 BC to 3485 BC when the pyramids were built after/during the flood is 911 years.  The rebuilding of the towers for our freedom is a similar idea.  Another set of a 911 year code runs from 2807 BC (flood date) to the year 1896 BC which is when the Destruction of the first Tower of Babel fell in ancient times.  In other codes the Tower of Babel is 296 years from the flood.  The significance of the sinking of Atland in 2194 BC is that it is 614 years from 2807 BC which is distance the Germans maintain a missing time hypthesis of 296 years missing from AD 614 to AD 911.  Until these pieces of information are retrived taking about Atlantis being a Real Place is like asking if Earth or America is a Real Place.  Raise your hand if your a Zombie you shops at target.  Plato did 9/11.  in cohorts with the Jewish Godhead and their Goat Azazzel, master of weapons and illusions.(pentagon).  Leonardo davinci did 9/11.  People wake up to all your Greek Myths, the Pleiades is a real star system, beneath behold your gods.and you the children of. (if they only knew) my dear dreary children of blogosphereical acondemic unreality you can't afford to believe anyway. The Atlantis Code is the equivelant of your brain on drugs as two eggs fry in frying pan, it already happened to you and you learned to forget about it too many times before.


#763    cormac mac airt

cormac mac airt

    Telekinetic

  • Member
  • 7,529 posts
  • Joined:18 Jun 2008
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tennessee, USA

Posted 26 June 2013 - 01:36 AM

Nice bit of fiction. ^^

cormac

The city and citizens, which you yesterday described to us in fiction, we will now transfer to the world of reality. It shall be the ancient city of Athens, and we will suppose that the citizens whom you imagined, were our veritable ancestors, of whom the priest spoke; they will perfectly harmonise, and there will be no inconsistency in saying that the citizens of your republic are these ancient Athenians. --  Plato's Timaeus

#764    wondertemple

wondertemple

    Alien Embryo

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 30 posts
  • Joined:09 May 2013

Posted 26 June 2013 - 01:37 AM

"Again Atlantis searchers themselves are very effective in spreading this biased idea, born by mislead academia. But also the well-known dogmatic sentence by Alan Cameron is cited: "It is only in modern times that people have taken the Atlantis story seriously; no one did so in antiquity." Let us repeat slowly: absolutely "n-o o-n-e"." ___ this is from the link given by Prolus
Richard "N-oo-n-e" wrote 5/5/2000 ICE: the Ultimate Disaster.  Exactly why all Atlantis research turns into a conspiracy against or in favor of our continued survival in our own futures?
Break the code Proclus I know you can see through this beyond the Pillars, beyond dantes inferno, or Bush's, or a transformers movie, beyond Phaeton and King Atlas.  Get an Atlas, there are a lot of clues in one word, ask Dan Brown or someone German they might have figured it out by now, what keeps the others reliving the hell of the history we repeat for them to stay confused?  no one knew what no one did in so called, "antiquity" its a wet dream Plato had about how the giants under enki (posidion) raised megalithic structures to stabilize the earths orbit at 365 days.  The Pyramid powers.    

Your fiction b****


#765    cormac mac airt

cormac mac airt

    Telekinetic

  • Member
  • 7,529 posts
  • Joined:18 Jun 2008
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tennessee, USA

Posted 26 June 2013 - 01:42 AM

View Postwondertemple, on 26 June 2013 - 01:37 AM, said:

"Again Atlantis searchers themselves are very effective in spreading this biased idea, born by mislead academia. But also the well-known dogmatic sentence by Alan Cameron is cited: "It is only in modern times that people have taken the Atlantis story seriously; no one did so in antiquity." Let us repeat slowly: absolutely "n-o o-n-e"." ___ this is from the link given by Prolus
Richard "N-oo-n-e" wrote 5/5/2000 ICE: the Ultimate Disaster.  Exactly why all Atlantis research turns into a conspiracy against or in favor of our continued survival in our own futures?
Break the code Proclus I know you can see through this beyond the Pillars, beyond dantes inferno, or Bush's, or a transformers movie, beyond Phaeton and King Atlas.  Get an Atlas, there are a lot of clues in one word, ask Dan Brown or someone German they might have figured it out by now, what keeps the others reliving the hell of the history we repeat for them to stay confused?  no one knew what no one did in so called, "antiquity" its a wet dream Plato had about how the giants under enki (posidion) raised megalithic structures to stabilize the earths orbit at 365 days.  The Pyramid powers.

Your fiction b****

Not my fiction. I don't believe in fairy tales. And with language like that, even going around the language filters, your time here may be limited.

cormac

The city and citizens, which you yesterday described to us in fiction, we will now transfer to the world of reality. It shall be the ancient city of Athens, and we will suppose that the citizens whom you imagined, were our veritable ancestors, of whom the priest spoke; they will perfectly harmonise, and there will be no inconsistency in saying that the citizens of your republic are these ancient Athenians. --  Plato's Timaeus




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users