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K. Dona :The Hidden History of the Human Race


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#61    digitalartist

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 04:30 PM

I have not looked at all the images, videos, etc... so I can not say that everything presented is either authentic or fake, I did notice a couple of things.  The Piri Reis map has been discussed on UM before and the conclusion is it doesn't show Antarctica but instead the southern part of South America.  The way the map is drawn and the fact it does not show distance between what is supposedly Antarctica and South America but joined as one land mass are the clues to me at least.  The other is the supposed OOP hammer head.  If it is the one I am thinking of, with the bit of wooden handle attached, then the handle should be fossilized from the immense amount of time in the ground but it isn't, indicating a much more recent deposit of the item.  

The biggest problem for Dona is inclusion of anything that is fake.  Even if only one item is fake it casts a shadow on everything there.

On the one website with the row of pictures at the bottom, Is that Von Daniken in some of those pictures?  If so he aligned himself with a well known fraud and that will further tarnish any of his efforts.


#62    crystal sage

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 04:59 PM

View Postdigitalartist, on 13 October 2010 - 04:30 PM, said:

I have not looked at all the images, videos, etc... so I can not say that everything presented is either authentic or fake, I did notice a couple of things.  The Piri Reis map has been discussed on UM before and the conclusion is it doesn't show Antarctica but instead the southern part of South America.  The way the map is drawn and the fact it does not show distance between what is supposedly Antarctica and South America but joined as one land mass are the clues to me at least.  The other is the supposed OOP hammer head.  If it is the one I am thinking of, with the bit of wooden handle attached, then the handle should be fossilized from the immense amount of time in the ground but it isn't, indicating a much more recent deposit of the item.  

The biggest problem for Dona is inclusion of anything that is fake.  Even if only one item is fake it casts a shadow on everything there.

On the one website with the row of pictures at the bottom, Is that Von Daniken in some of those pictures?  If so he aligned himself with a well known fraud and that will further tarnish any of his efforts.
Erich von Däniken

What was it that you think ruined all his credibility??? I heard it was just one piece of phony pottery or something silly like that?

Come on.. Erich von Däniken The "father of the ancient astronaut theory". Author of Chariots of the Gods and over two dozen books on this theme.
He singlehandedly changed how we  dare think of this world... our history forever!!!!
Before that our "thinking" of our history was pretty much controlled by the parameters set by the bible...
My link
Back then.. according to most history taught at the time... somehow.. when the pyramids were built.. most of the world was still barely off the trees.. wearing bearskin and barley out of the caves..

Even the mere idea of farming.. cultivating the soils 5000 years ago was considered extreme...

Imagine how many artifacts back then were in the Ooparts category?

How many other historians.. Scholars have picked up a dodgy piece in their lives.. or were mistaken about an object or hadn't properly checked their researcher's work.. or been perhaps deliberately handed a really clever 'Dudd' or given some seemingly clever but 'dodgy' information just to discredit them?

Remember what seems to be the 'quote' of these times... "Truth is stranger than fiction"...
" You wouldn't believe it until you saw it"...."But what did you really see?"

Quote

Sherlock Holmes - Arthur Conan Doyle
"When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"
To make mistakes is human; to stumble is commonplace; to be able to laugh at yourself is maturity." -- William A. Ward

It is called  a learning curve... you pick yourself up.. and start again.. a little bit wiser.. a little bit stronger..

Everyone makes mistakes.. it is called .. 'being human'...


:rolleyes:

Had to add this one...

Quote

"I would rather have a mind opened by wonder than one closed by belief." -- Gerry Spence


Edited by crystal sage, 13 October 2010 - 05:15 PM.


#63    Abramelin

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 05:11 PM

View Postcrystal sage, on 13 October 2010 - 04:59 PM, said:

Erich von Däniken

What was it that you think ruined all his credibility??? I heard it was just one piece of phony pottery or something silly like that?

Come on.. Erich von Däniken The "father of the ancient astronaut theory". Author of Chariots of the Gods and over two dozen books on this theme.
He singlehandedly changed how we  dare think of this world... our history forever!!!!
Before that our "thinking" of our history was pretty much controlled by the parameters set by the bible...
My link
Back then.. according to most history taught at the time... somehow.. when the pyramids were built.. most of the world was still barely off the trees.. wearing bearskin and barley out of the caves..

Even the mere idea of farming.. cultivating the soils 5000 years ago was considered extreme...

Imagine how many artifacts back then were in the Ooparts category?

How many other historians.. Scholars have picked up a dodgy piece in their lives.. or were mistaken about an object or hadn't properly checked their researcher's work.. or been perhaps deliberately handed a really clever 'Dudd' or given some seemingly clever but 'dodgy' information just to discredit them?

Remember what seems to be the 'quote' of these times... "Truth is stranger than fiction"...
" You wouldn't believe it until you saw it"...."But what did you really see?"

It is called  a learning curve... you pick yourself up.. and start again.. a little bit wiser.. a little bit stronger..

Everyone makes mistakes.. it is called .. 'being human'...

In 1991 I met the South American 'Von Daniken, Cabrera, the guy in Ica , the one who owns his own little museum at the major plaza in Ica crammed to the  brim with stones depicting native Americas 'playing' with dinosaurs and using telescopes and whatnot.

The main difference with Von Daniken is that this guy actually totally believed that aliens visited earth thousands of years ago. He didn't lie...but he had been fooled by people he trusted.

A few days after I met Cabrera I met an artist who had specialized in creating Inca pottery with the typical decorations. If he had wanted to, he could have sold them as true ancient artifacts; they were perfect copies.

But he didn't, he just wanted the ancient culture of his ancestors to continue.

Then.... I asked him what he thought about Cabrera and his stones. Jeesh, he nearly exploded, and told me (well, shouted is a better word), what he thought about Cabrera. He said Cabrera was an idiot, and that he knew several people (even some in his own family) who still created these 'ancient artifacts' and sold them to Cabrera.

EDITED to add:

THis artist was a proud man, proud at his Peruvian history. And he sort of blamed me, as the 'gringo' I was, to have screwed up his land and history, and now trying to even screw them more by believing in what idiots claimed about Inca/Peruvian history.

I can tell you, after I started about Cabrera my encounter with this man became a bit unpleasant, to say the least.

He was furious. And big and quite muscular too, LOL.

.

Edited by Abramelin, 13 October 2010 - 05:22 PM.


#64    cormac mac airt

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 05:13 PM

Quote

He singlehandedly changed how we dare think of this world... our history forever!!!!

No, he didn't.

Quote

Before that our "thinking" of our history was pretty much controlled by the parameters set by the bible...

This is not true, either, as archaeology and related sciences had long exceeded any set parameters that some were using based on the Bible.

Quote

Back then.. according to most history taught at the time... somehow.. when the pyramids were built.. most of the world was still barely off the trees.. wearing bearskin and barley out of the caves..

I'm 47 and even I know better than that. Nowhere was this train of thought presented as anywhere near true in the places I or my siblings went to school. Perhaps your educational system was sub-par.

Quote

Even the mere idea of farming.. cultivating the soils 5000 years ago was considered extreme...

Relatively recent by the standards of what was known perhaps but 'extreme', absolutely not.

cormac

The city and citizens, which you yesterday described to us in fiction, we will now transfer to the world of reality. It shall be the ancient city of Athens, and we will suppose that the citizens whom you imagined, were our veritable ancestors, of whom the priest spoke; they will perfectly harmonise, and there will be no inconsistency in saying that the citizens of your republic are these ancient Athenians. --  Plato's Timaeus

#65    Abramelin

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 05:31 PM

Quote


CrystalSage said:
Back then.. according to most history taught at the time... somehow.. when the pyramids were built.. most of the world was still barely off the trees.. wearing bearskin and barley out of the caves..



Well, must be me, but I have learned differently.

Check Malta, French Brittany, Stonehenge, India, Sumer, Akkad, China, and so on.

Ignoring facts to be able to continue believing in some culture being superior, hmmmmm......


,

Edited by Abramelin, 13 October 2010 - 05:32 PM.


#66    crystal sage

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 05:37 PM

View Postcormac mac airt, on 13 October 2010 - 05:13 PM, said:

No, he didn't.



This is not true, either, as archaeology and related sciences had long exceeded any set parameters that some were using based on the Bible.



I'm 47 and even I know better than that. Nowhere was this train of thought presented as anywhere near true in the places I or my siblings went to school. Perhaps your educational system was sub-par.



Relatively recent by the standards of what was known perhaps but 'extreme', absolutely not.

cormac
Australia.. in the early 60's and 70's... It was really Puritan back then.


I recall being excited about the idea of dinosaurs.. but learning at Saturday school... Catholic... that we were not to listen.. as the 'buried dinosaur bones' were just placed there by God to test us.. in our belief of the teachings of the bible.. We had strict Nuns.. who loved using the strap.. and Teachers that had  cleverly carved boxes with sliding lids that held assorted straps and canes that they liked taking out every day.


I remember being taught that Mars was very hot... over 700 degrees at it's coolest.. that nothing could survive there, and now we are close to colonizing Mars in the next few decades...

I do vaguely recall being taught Evolution... not as a reality.. but a philosophy..

Merely discussing evolution  could get you a 'hiding' ( as we called it) from the Nuns ...



So to that effect... we were  totally  confused by the findings  and  amazing articles of our National Geographic collection.. and my Uncle's  'Plain Truth' magazines.....]

Ideas that floated in our minds.. for years, but were not to be discussed... Ideas that often surfaced.. but could only be fed by blending with other science fiction novels or movies...

Edited by crystal sage, 13 October 2010 - 05:46 PM.


#67    Power Lust

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 05:45 PM

View Postcrystal sage, on 13 October 2010 - 05:37 PM, said:

Australia.. in the early 60's and 70's... It was really Puritan back then.


I recall being excited about the idea of dinosaurs.. but learning at Saturday school... Catholic... that we were not to listen.. as the 'buried dinosaur bones' were just placed there by God to test us.. in our belief of the teachings of the bible.. We had strict Nuns.. who loved using the strap.. and Teachers that had  cleverly carved boxes with sliding lids that held assorted straps and canes that they liked taking out every day.


I remember being taught that Mars was very hot... over 700 degrees at it's coolest.. that nothing could survive there, and now we are close to colonizing Mars in the next few decades...

I do vaguely recall being taught evolution... not as a reality.. but a philosophy..

An idea that could get you a 'hiding' ( as we called it) from the Nuns if you dared to discuss it...

But totally  confused by the findings  and  amazing articles of our National Geographic collection.. and my Uncle's  'Plain Truth' magazines.....

I dont think they beat you hard enough.

joking lol


#68    The Skeptic Eric Raven

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 05:46 PM

View PostZ-v-S, on 10 October 2010 - 04:29 AM, said:

Ohhh i get it... It's become so clear now.

You're jealous! That's it!

You're jealous becuase Klaus Dona who isn't a qualified archaeologist has stubled across something much more important and interesting than you ever have or will.

20+ years... Ouch!  :hmm:
Good greif. Are you 10 years old? Qualified is the word. A person should be qualified to be considered and expert. Your Klaus isn't. Are you realted to him or somehting? :w00t:

Edited by The Skeptic Eric Raven, 13 October 2010 - 06:28 PM.

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#69    crystal sage

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 05:48 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 13 October 2010 - 05:31 PM, said:

Well, must be me, but I have learned differently.

Check Malta, French Brittany, Stonehenge, India, Sumer, Akkad, China, and so on.

Ignoring facts to be able to continue believing in some culture being superior, hmmmmm......


,
  Back then... nothing appeared to be over 5000 years old.. it was a safe date.. to go with the religious teachings I gather...


#70    cormac mac airt

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 06:17 PM

View Postcrystal sage, on 13 October 2010 - 05:37 PM, said:

Australia.. in the early 60's and 70's... It was really Puritan back then.


I recall being excited about the idea of dinosaurs.. but learning at Saturday school... Catholic... that we were not to listen.. as the 'buried dinosaur bones' were just placed there by God to test us.. in our belief of the teachings of the bible.. We had strict Nuns.. who loved using the strap.. and Teachers that had  cleverly carved boxes with sliding lids that held assorted straps and canes that they liked taking out every day.


I remember being taught that Mars was very hot... over 700 degrees at it's coolest.. that nothing could survive there, and now we are close to colonizing Mars in the next few decades...

I do vaguely recall being taught Evolution... not as a reality.. but a philosophy..

Merely discussing evolution  could get you a 'hiding' ( as we called it) from the Nuns ...



So to that effect... we were  totally  confused by the findings  and  amazing articles of our National Geographic collection.. and my Uncle's  'Plain Truth' magazines.....]

Ideas that floated in our minds.. for years, but were not to be discussed... Ideas that often surfaced.. but could only be fed by blending with other science fiction novels or movies...

While you never specified Australia, making a broad sweeping statement instead, neither Australia nor any part thereof speaks for the level of education from anywhere else on the globe, particularly in the 60's and 70's timeframe. I also went to school in the 60's and 70's: Germany twice (Darmstadt and Kaiserslautern), Kansas, West Virginia, Indiana, Kentucky, Tennessee and 2 locations in Texas. None of these schools were that backwards in education, nor should it be assumed they were anything more than typical. The point being that your education as regards ancient history should not be seen as typical of anyone elses.

cormac

The city and citizens, which you yesterday described to us in fiction, we will now transfer to the world of reality. It shall be the ancient city of Athens, and we will suppose that the citizens whom you imagined, were our veritable ancestors, of whom the priest spoke; they will perfectly harmonise, and there will be no inconsistency in saying that the citizens of your republic are these ancient Athenians. --  Plato's Timaeus

#71    ShadowSot

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 06:39 PM

Quote


I'm 47 and even I know better than that. Nowhere was this train of thought presented as anywhere near true in the places I or my siblings went to school. Perhaps your educational system was sub-par.

I'm 22 and I know better.


Quote

Originally by Crystal Sage
What was it that you think ruined all his credibility??? I heard it was just one piece of phony pottery or something silly like that?
Well, where would you like to start?
His history for fraud started before he published his books. He was indicted for fraud in the '60's.
Soon after he published his books, he was charged for fraud and tax evasion by Interpol. He was also indicted for embezzlement.

he claimed to have been led to tunnels under Ecuador gold and statues, and library of tablets, supposedly containing evidence of alien visitation.
However, the fellow he spoke to came forward to say that it had been made up.

It's also important to look at how Doniken reacts when he's caught. Instead of printing a retraction, or going over it later, he ignores it.
He used the temple pole in India as an example of alien intervention, until it was debunked, he never to my knowledge retracted his claim about the Ecuadorian tunnels.

His books have been refuted wholesale, in example being The Space Gods Revealed, by Ronald Story.

As Carl Sagan said, "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."
Something Von Daniken has yet to produce.
Neither has Stitchin for that matter.

Quote

He singlehandedly changed how we dare think of this world... our history forever!!!!
Yes, by encouraging people to ignore science and provable facts, for wanton speculation.

It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.
-Terry Pratchett

#72    Abramelin

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 06:42 PM

View Postcrystal sage, on 13 October 2010 - 05:48 PM, said:

Back then... nothing appeared to be over 5000 years old.. it was a safe date.. to go with the religious teachings I gather...

Karnak, Brittany is 4000 BC or more.

That's 6000 years old to my reckoniong.

The megalyths in Malta are 5000 years old.

I have seen your posts about this, so I wonder why you conveniently forget about it.

Is it because you copy and post, but never actually read all that's written there??

That is what I think you do, and yoy are not ther only one here.

Skip past what doesn't appeal to you and copy and post what does.


#73    The Skeptic Eric Raven

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 07:03 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 13 October 2010 - 06:42 PM, said:

Karnak, Brittany is 4000 BC or more.

That's 6000 years old to my reckoniong.

The megalyths in Malta are 5000 years old.

I have seen your posts about this, so I wonder why you conveniently forget about it.

Is it because you copy and post, but never actually read all that's written there??

That is what I think you do, and yoy are not ther only one here.

Skip past what doesn't appeal to you and copy and post what does.

Exactly. Nothing more then copy and paste with no care for whats true.

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#74    Abramelin

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 08:47 PM

View PostThe Skeptic Eric Raven, on 13 October 2010 - 07:03 PM, said:

Exactly. Nothing more then copy and paste with no care for whats true.



Its good to hear from someone with a mind of his/her own.

I have wished many things to be true, believe me.

But eventually I found out I was wrong.

That sucks.....

It hurts too.

But that is the way things go in this world: we learn, and we get hurt by what we learn.


We have dreams, we have expatations, we have hopes.....and then scientific discoveries kick the shiiit out of what we have always hoped to be true.

.

Edited by Abramelin, 13 October 2010 - 08:51 PM.


#75    ShadowSot

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 08:59 PM

Quote


We have dreams, we have expatations, we have hopes.....and then scientific discoveries kick the shiiit out of what we have always hoped to be true.


I have to say, scientific discoveries have revealed to me a wonderful world, in some ways more amazing than the fantasies I let myself believe when I was younger.
Mostly, to me, was how scientists have been able to reveal the faces of our ancestors, and little scraps about their lives, bits of who they were.

It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.
-Terry Pratchett




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