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Nazi Atomic bomb used in 1943


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#1    tazjet

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Posted 03 October 2010 - 10:04 AM

The following intercepted Japanese diplomatic signal was intercepted during World War 2: "Stockholm to Tokyo" No. 232.9 December 1944 (War Department), National Archives, RG 457,  declassified October 1, 1978.  

Quote

This bomb is revolutionary in its results, and will completely upset all ordinary precepts of warfare hitherto established. I am sending you, in one group, all those reports on what is called the atom-splitting bomb.

It is a fact that in June of 1943, the German Army tried out an utterly new type of weapon against the Russians at a location 150 kilometers southeast of Kursk. Although it was the entire 19th Infantry Regiment [Vorezneh Rifles*]  of the Russians which was thus attacked, only a few bombs (each round up to 5 kilograms) sufficed to utterly wipe them out to the last man.

The following is according to a statement by Lieutenant Colonel... Kenji, adviser to the attaché in Hungary and formerly... in this country, who by chance saw the actual scene immediately after the above took place:

“All the men and the horses [within radius of] the explosion of the shells were charred black and even their ammunition had all been detonated. Moreover, it is a fact that the same type of war material was tried out in the Crimea too. At that time the Russians claimed that this was poison gas, and protested that if Germany were ever again to use it, Russia, too, would use poison gas.”

Recently the British authorities warned their people of the possibility that they might undergo attack by German atom- splitting bombs. The American authorities have likewise warned that the American east coast might be the area chosen for a blind attack by some sort of flying bomb.


*my italics

This is not a fantasy or an illusion. The signal interception known as a MAGIC decrypt was kept classified after the war. The Japanese throughout WW2 had no knowledge that their encyphered diplomatic signals from Berlin and Stockholm were being read in London and Washington.

Edited by tazjet, 03 October 2010 - 10:05 AM.


#2    Belial

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Posted 03 October 2010 - 10:35 AM

The germans did not get passed the 'heavy water' testing stages of nuclear bomb creation (thankfully).

Where it states "For official use only" - gently rub a white wax candle over the area indicated.

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#3    Yes_Man

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Posted 03 October 2010 - 10:55 AM

Yeah, it did't yet materilise and they scrapped it


#4    Power Lust

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Posted 03 October 2010 - 11:18 AM

View PostBelial, on 03 October 2010 - 10:35 AM, said:

The germans did not get passed the 'heavy water' testing stages of nuclear bomb creation (thankfully).

The Germans shipped their stockpile of uranium to Japan when they surrendered


#5    Belial

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Posted 03 October 2010 - 11:49 AM

Any proof of that statement?

Where it states "For official use only" - gently rub a white wax candle over the area indicated.

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#6    Eluveit

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Posted 03 October 2010 - 11:51 AM

View PostPower Lust, on 03 October 2010 - 11:18 AM, said:

The Germans shipped their stockpile of uranium to Japan when they surrendered

Why did they do that??

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#7    questionmark

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Posted 03 October 2010 - 12:51 PM

View PostEluveit, on 03 October 2010 - 11:51 AM, said:

Why did they do that??

So the Japanese could defend themselves against the USA with a bomb. The submarine carrying the cargo also surrendered at the end of the war to US forces, in fact the enriched uranium used in one of the bombs used in Japan came from that stockpile. To check up on this see U-234.

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#8    Hanslune

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Posted 03 October 2010 - 03:35 PM

Nonsense. The German scientists who worked on the nuclear question would have known this but oddly did not. Nor did anyone else.


#9    tazjet

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Posted 03 October 2010 - 09:44 PM

Quote

Powerlust said:    

The Germans shipped their stockpile of uranium to Japan when they surrendered  

Power Lust is referring to German U-boat shipments of Uranium to Japan during 1944 carrying uranium oxide, but more accurately I think he refers to the voyage of U-234. This large minelaying U-boat converted to cargo, collided with another U-boat which surfaced beneath her in the straits between Denmark and Sweeden in March 1945 delaying her departure for repairs.

According to U-234's radio operator Wolfgang Hirschfeld in his autobiography part of the cargo was even offloaded and flown to Tokyo from a Norwegian airfield. German armaments minister Albert Speer confirms this in his memoirs and mentions the flight was by Junkers Ju-390 on 28 March 1945.    

The Japanese General in charge of the Army laboratory in Northern Korea at the time, Gen Kawashima told a Japanese TV station in 1983 that Japan only acquired 2000kg of Uranium oxide by U-boat. He requested shipments as early as 7 July 1943 revealed in another declassified MAGIC decrypt.

During 1944 Japan's largest producer of Amonia nitrate for explosives JNFC Nichitsu opened ten mines around Korea and Manchuria yielding in excess of 500,000 metric tons of Uranium ores. Nichitsu also produced Heavy water for a nuclear reactor built at Kyoto university.

Source:
Wilcox, Robert K. "Japan's Secret War" pub 1985

Edited by tazjet, 03 October 2010 - 09:46 PM.


#10    Wyrdlight

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Posted 03 October 2010 - 09:51 PM

If the Germans had access to nukes, why did they not simply put them in v2's and knock Britain out of the war in weeks.

Nukes + v2's = War winning technology, why waste a valuble nuke on a handful of Russian Infantry when you could force an entire nations surrender?


#11    Rob Awesome

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Posted 03 October 2010 - 09:57 PM

Nazi's made all kinds of wild claims about weapons and accomplishments, every nation did, to their enemies, allies, and the civilian population.  Propaganda is a huge part of every war.  If my allies were concerned that I was in a vulnerable position and I faced the risk of losing them, I'd tell them anything they wanted to hear.

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#12    tazjet

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Posted 03 October 2010 - 09:59 PM

View PostHanslune, on 03 October 2010 - 03:35 PM, said:

Nonsense. The German scientists who worked on the nuclear question would have known this but oddly did not. Nor did anyone else.

More accurately Heisenberg didn't know, but Heisenberg was the head of the Kaiser Wilhelm Gesellschaft (institute). The KWI was not at the heart of the Nazi bomb project. The Army Ordnance Dept (Heereswaffenamt) was. HWA was led by Diebner and he was contracted to run specific trials at Kummersdorf in 1942 experimenting with miniature tactical nuclear weapons using hollow charge explosives.

After the war the occupation army forbade nuclear scientists from publishing their work or obtaining patents yet some wartime patents (which escaped the wholesale uplifting by ALSOS teams in 1945) for these bombs came to light through the research of Rainer Karlsh in 2005. Heisenberg's patents were unworkable, but Deibner's weren't.

Diebner published his designs in France during 1956 under the pseudonym Werner Tautorus. It was so good the US military copied the design for their own tactical mini-nukes.

I have redrawn the design which Tautorus published in France in 1956, but kept the original noculamenture:

Posted Image


#13    tazjet

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Posted 03 October 2010 - 10:11 PM

View PostWyrdlight, on 03 October 2010 - 09:51 PM, said:

If the Germans had access to nukes, why did they not simply put them in v2's and knock Britain out of the war in weeks.

Nukes + v2's = War winning technology, why waste a valuble nuke on a handful of Russian Infantry when you could force an entire nations surrender?

They were preparing to do just that. Dornberger commented to that effect that Hitler intended to use nuclear tipped V-2s in conversations secretly recorded at his internment camp CSDIC Camp 11, which was entered in evidence at Nuremberg trials. Can't get more authentic than Nuremberg evidence.

When Roumania's Marshall Antonescu was tried for war crimes he revealed a similar conversation with Hitler to that effect.

On 5 August 1944 Hitler Ribbentrop and Keitel met with Romanian Marshal Antonescu. Hitler told Antonescu of Germany’s atomic bomb. He described Germany’s latest work on

Quote

“new explosives, whose development was already advanced to the experimental stage”


Hitler confided his view that the jump from modern explosives to this one was the biggest since gunpowder. Antonescu later quoted Hitler when arrested by the Russians and questioned for war crimes saying:

Quote

These weapons, for example, have such colossal force that all human life is destroyed within three, or four kilometres of its point of impact.

When V-1 began raining down over England however Churchill discreetly threatened to drop anthrax bombs all over Germany and destroy the nation's farming food supply. USA also notified Germany in late July 1944 through it's embassy in Lisbon that unless Hitler abandoned it's nuclear weapons program and entered negotiations to sue for peace within six weeks then Dresden would suffer the first Allied Atomic Bomb attack.

Source:
Germany and the Second World War: Organization and Mobilisation of the German sphere of Power..., Volume 5, Part 1, by Bernhard Kroener, Rolf-Dieter Müller, Hans Umbreit, Oxford Uni Press 2003

This is also referred to by Dr Paul Harteck in Farm Hall transcripts 6-7 August 1945.


#14    questionmark

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Posted 03 October 2010 - 10:24 PM

View PostHanslune, on 03 October 2010 - 03:35 PM, said:

Nonsense. The German scientists who worked on the nuclear question would have known this but oddly did not. Nor did anyone else.

Quite correct, the German defense ministry considered the nuclear bomb secondary because they expected to win the war before they could develop the a bomb. All that was ever build were several test reactors to enrich Uranium and a reactor prototype near Karlsruhe. All these projects were in the open.

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#15    Wyrdlight

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Posted 03 October 2010 - 10:28 PM

So they had the capability to use nukes for two years in combination with V-1's/v-2's and did not, why?





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