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Christianity in regard to conspiracy.


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#1    Makazradon

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Posted 30 November 2010 - 03:29 AM

All right, this is a question to Christians (and other informed people on the matter) who are deep into conspiracy theories.

Why is it that you think, with all the control the government and world powers have, how they put things out there to brainwash and control us, yet, somehow Christianity is exempt from this? I've known so many Christian conspiracy theorists who buy into pretty much all the stuff about government and control and everything, but they always talk about God (from a Christian perspective) and Jesus. Don't you get it? Don't you think the most popular, accepted and mainstream religion would probably end up being something that's used a means of control?

The idea is to open your mind... accept even the possibility that what you believe is part of the program. Are Christians THAT brainwashed that they don't even realize that the biggest method of control is right under their nose?

The other day I listened to an interview by a Christian talking to a man who was speaking about the global agenda. Once the guy mentioned how religion is part of it, and how Christianity is merely sun worship and that its no different from figures that predated him, such as Horus, Krishna, Dionysus, Zarathustra. The instant the guy started explaining, the Christian interviewer interrupted him and started getting nasty with him, and abruptly changed the subject. I can understand holding to the beliefs, that's fine, but not even entertaining the possibility that it is part of all this is just so pathetically backwards.

For any Christians that reply, I would ask that you, please, do not do any of the following:
- Responding simply with a Bible verse
- Resorting to insults and personal attacks
- Make blind arguments (for example, stating that there's evidence without presenting any)
- Try to just say that I'm wrong and that I am being deceived without actually presenting anything concrete to show that I am, in fact, as you claim

I don't care if you believe in God, don't believe in God, or whatever... that's not what this is about. I simply will not accept arguments from faith or empty-claims. It's about time someone shrugged off this taboo (a very rare thing indeed in the conspiracy movement) of picking apart religion and Christianity.

Edited by Makazradon, 30 November 2010 - 03:30 AM.

This post has been brought to you by Makazradon.

#2    IamsSon

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Posted 30 November 2010 - 04:09 AM

Governments and other organizations have very decidedly used "Christianity" as a way to control people, no doubt.  They have used the ignorance of people who have not bothered to study the Bible to fool them into thinking Christianity means they have to do this or vote like that etc.  However, the fact that the ignorance of "believers" has been used does not actually imply that the message of the Bible is wrong, inaccurate, or a lie.

Having said that, I would like to point out you are making an incredible assumption that requires some serious support:  

Quote

...with all the control the government and world powers have, how they put things out there to brainwash and control us...
You've asked believers not to make blind arguments, so that means you also should not do so.  Please provide proof that your assumption has any basis in fact.

Edited by IamsSon, 30 November 2010 - 04:12 AM.

"But then with me that horrid doubt always arises whether the convictions of man's mind which has been developed from the mind of the lower animals, are of any value or at all trustworthy. Would any one trust in the convictions of a monkey's mind, if there are any convictions in such a mind?" - Charles Darwin, in a letter to William Graham on July 3, 1881

#3    Makazradon

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Posted 30 November 2010 - 04:17 AM

...I see.

Archaeological evidence shows that nothing contradicts The Bible. But nothing that confirms it?

The writings of Josephus in regard to Jesus have been found to have been fraudulent. They date much later than his actual writings and even life, and their place in his writings do not fit with his context or writing style.

The rest of the people mentioned wrote of him much later than his supposed life, death and resurrection. Even so, eye-witness evidence is not good enough. Especially from 2,000 years ago. If someone today told you that someone walked on water, would you believe them? What if it was written down and you read the person saying it happened 2,000 years later?

When did the prophecies that were fulfilled in The Bible occur? Oh... in The Bible. Seriously? Using Bible verses to confirm Bible Verses? :/

Why not give a look-see to http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/?


But alas, this is not a debate thread. I still haven't really found my answer.

My question is for other conspiracy theorists who believe in government deception. I really have nothing to say to your average every day Christians.

Edited by Makazradon, 30 November 2010 - 04:18 AM.

This post has been brought to you by Makazradon.

#4    Bracket

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Posted 30 November 2010 - 04:32 AM

View PostMakazradon, on 30 November 2010 - 04:17 AM, said:

My question is for other conspiracy theorists who believe in government deception. I really have nothing to say to your average every day Christians.

You ask for a response from a christian, you get one and you say this? Looks like you're just looking for someone to agree with you.  :rolleyes:

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#5    Makazradon

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Posted 30 November 2010 - 04:43 AM

View PostBracket, on 30 November 2010 - 04:32 AM, said:

You ask for a response from a christian, you get one and you say this? Looks like you're just looking for someone to agree with you.  :rolleyes:

Makazradon said:

All right, this is a question to Christians (and other informed people on the matter) who are deep into conspiracy theories.

Yeah, I stated it to begin with. All I'm looking for is Christians who follow conspiracy theories about government control and manipulation to respond...

This post has been brought to you by Makazradon.

#6    Sir Wearer of Hats

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Posted 30 November 2010 - 06:07 AM

I'd argue that Christianity isn't "sun worship" but rather a slightly more holistic nature worship (think of it as "life worship").
We are told time and again that "God is in the details" and so forth.

Everything organised is a structure for control. Religion is about doctrine, scripture and faith, a mix of the three influencing each other, with the first two being used to structure and give 'voice' the third (think 1984 and "newspeak", the language you have to explain something is controlled, but how do you explain something if the only words you have are those given to you?). People who think differently are 'radicals' and 'heretics' (I myself am technically a heretic because I agree with Arius on the nature of the Trinity), thus painted as "the other", the "enemy" even.

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#7    IamsSon

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Posted 30 November 2010 - 12:23 PM

View PostMakazradon, on 30 November 2010 - 04:17 AM, said:

...I see.

Archaeological evidence shows that nothing contradicts The Bible. But nothing that confirms it?

The writings of Josephus in regard to Jesus have been found to have been fraudulent. They date much later than his actual writings and even life, and their place in his writings do not fit with his context or writing style.

The rest of the people mentioned wrote of him much later than his supposed life, death and resurrection. Even so, eye-witness evidence is not good enough. Especially from 2,000 years ago. If someone today told you that someone walked on water, would you believe them? What if it was written down and you read the person saying it happened 2,000 years later?

When did the prophecies that were fulfilled in The Bible occur? Oh... in The Bible. Seriously? Using Bible verses to confirm Bible Verses? :/

Why not give a look-see to http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/?


But alas, this is not a debate thread. I still haven't really found my answer.

My question is for other conspiracy theorists who believe in government deception. I really have nothing to say to your average every day Christians.
I still see no proof, just more blind arguments.

Could it be possible that these governments and shadow institutions are trying to cast doubt on the accounts of the Bible because having the the truth that God is so involved in His creation that He will become human, live in His creation, and die for His creations will severely hamper their ability to control the masses and that you are the one being deceived and not the Christians?

Edited by IamsSon, 30 November 2010 - 12:27 PM.

"But then with me that horrid doubt always arises whether the convictions of man's mind which has been developed from the mind of the lower animals, are of any value or at all trustworthy. Would any one trust in the convictions of a monkey's mind, if there are any convictions in such a mind?" - Charles Darwin, in a letter to William Graham on July 3, 1881

#8    redhen

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Posted 30 November 2010 - 03:40 PM

View PostMakazradon, on 30 November 2010 - 03:29 AM, said:

Christianity is merely sun worship and that its no different from figures that predated him, such as Horus, Krishna, Dionysus, Zarathustra.

Someone's been watching too much Zeitgeist.




#9    SlimJim22

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Posted 30 November 2010 - 04:22 PM

Sure Sun worship plays a part but it is not limited to that. Christianity is also based on the trinity and you find the trinity in ancient Egypt, Babylon and Phrygia. They were controlling the old world and are doing their utmost to do the same again. That is the same techniques, symbols and beliefs rather than the same actual people - obviously.

You can look up Tammuz or Ninus as well as the more well known Osiris, Isis, Horus legend. Crux of it is a dying god who is resurected. We here the most popular version of the Jesus story but there are others. Quite a few of them have Jesus particularly linked with Egypt and prior to the christian era we have a flourishing Sarapis cult in Alexandria. Seems to me like there was a lot of synthesizing of early christinaity, which meant that what we ended up with in the Nicene creed was a long way from how it started out. All speculation, all unprovable but you can definitely find close associations with Sarapis, Tammuz and others. End result is that if you believe something too strongly it is going to be detrimental yet fundamentalist groups and cults seem to be supported more than tolerated by governments and powerful people.  Why? Because it is harmful and divisive to  have such extreme views whilst ignoring the evidence.

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#10    Crocodonk

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Posted 30 November 2010 - 05:27 PM

Religion has been used as a form of control for a really long time, it might not have started off that way, but over the years it was manipulated, and corrupted.  Through out history Religion has been used to push political agendas.

The govt doesnt need too push or promote Christinanity since the followers willingly already get them selves into that mess.  So govt just sits back, and lets the followers do their work for them.


#11    JGirl

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Posted 30 November 2010 - 06:16 PM

View PostMakazradon, on 30 November 2010 - 03:29 AM, said:

All right, this is a question to Christians (and other informed people on the matter) who are deep into conspiracy theories.


For any Christians that reply, I would ask that you, please, do not do any of the following:
- Responding simply with a Bible verse
- Resorting to insults and personal attacks
- Make blind arguments (for example, stating that there's evidence without presenting any)
- Try to just say that I'm wrong and that I am being deceived without actually presenting anything concrete to show that I am, in fact, as you claim

and then you say:

My question is for other conspiracy theorists who believe in government deception. I really have nothing to say to your average every day Christians.


so, what the heck do you want?


#12    Makazradon

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Posted 01 December 2010 - 03:22 AM

View Postredhen, on 30 November 2010 - 03:40 PM, said:

Someone's been watching too much Zeitgeist.



Interesting... I've never seen Zeitgeist. I've heard about it but haven't had the chance to watch it. People keep accusing me of having watched it and taken my information in it, which is funny because it tells me that people like you are just that uneducated on the matter that you think such information stems from a popular video.

What the Priest says about the film... it seems like the creator of the Zeitgeist film actually blatantly lied and said that those figures were exactly like Jesus. Which isn't true. Anyone involved in this kind of research will tell you that they aren't that similar. Either way, it doesn't make Christianity true.

View PostJGirl, on 30 November 2010 - 06:16 PM, said:

so, what the heck do you want?

I meant to say for other conspiracy theorists who are Christian. I mistyped that. Sorry.

View PostIamsSon, on 30 November 2010 - 12:23 PM, said:

I still see no proof, just more blind arguments.

Could it be possible that these governments and shadow institutions are trying to cast doubt on the accounts of the Bible because having the the truth that God is so involved in His creation that He will become human, live in His creation, and die for His creations will severely hamper their ability to control the masses and that you are the one being deceived and not the Christians?

:-/

Keep in mind, I'm not an atheist. I'm really not interested in debating anything. It's unanimously accepted that there is absolutely no contemporary historical evidence for Jesus' existence.

I didn't make this post to be convinced by Christians that Christianity is true. I have my answers. I only wish to know why, despite the very fragile state (at best) of Christianity's historical reliability, you believe the controlling state of the planet doesn't apply to your religion.

Edited by Makazradon, 01 December 2010 - 04:16 AM.

This post has been brought to you by Makazradon.

#13    IamsSon

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Posted 01 December 2010 - 04:53 AM

View PostMakazradon, on 01 December 2010 - 03:22 AM, said:

:-/

Keep in mind, I'm not an atheist. I'm really not interested in debating anything. It's unanimously accepted that there is absolutely no contemporary historical evidence for Jesus' existence.

I didn't make this post to be convinced by Christians that Christianity is true. I have my answers. I only wish to know why, despite the very fragile state (at best) of Christianity's historical reliability, you believe the controlling state of the planet doesn't apply to your religion.
You're still just making blind arguments and then using them as the basis for your question.  You're not going to get any good answers from Christians since you're asking us to accept your poorly supported premise.

You're the one who asked Christians in your OP not to make blind arguments and yet you have only continued to make blind arguments in every response.

"But then with me that horrid doubt always arises whether the convictions of man's mind which has been developed from the mind of the lower animals, are of any value or at all trustworthy. Would any one trust in the convictions of a monkey's mind, if there are any convictions in such a mind?" - Charles Darwin, in a letter to William Graham on July 3, 1881

#14    Travelling Man

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Posted 08 December 2010 - 02:55 AM

As I agree with IamsSon, I will add that you started this thread with nothing more than a huge generalization AND a personal attack against any and all Christians. You accused every last one of them of falling for some sort of religious conspiracy and that their entire faith was based on a lie.

But you don't want anyone to:

Quote

- Responding simply with a Bible verse
- Resorting to insults and personal attacks
- Make blind arguments (for example, stating that there's evidence without presenting any)
- Try to just say that I'm wrong and that I am being deceived without actually presenting anything concrete to show that I am, in fact, as you claim
Sorry, but so far you've broken three of your own rules, by insulting and making personal attacks, making blind arguments, and by saying that Christians are wrong without presenting anything concrete to show that they are actually wrong.

Not a good way to start a thread.

And I say this as a non-Christian.

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#15    Drummerboy

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Posted 08 December 2010 - 05:59 PM

My two cents is this- I think that yes, Christianity was created in order to keep control over people but now it's gotten out of control and the powers that be don't like that.





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