48 replies to this topic

[Still Waters]

www.dailymail.co.uk said:

A schoolboy has been given permission to start changing into a woman - provided he has his sperm frozen in case he decides to 'father' children some time in the future.

The extraordinary case has emerged in Australia where a female judge in the Family Court has given the 16-year-old boy the go-ahead to start drug treatment in the first steps to his conversion into womanhood.

Judge Linda Dessau said the teenager, who is mildly autistic, was mature enough to know what he wanted - and he had the support of his parents, six specialists and a lawyer.

Sydney's Daily Telegraph reported today that the boy, identified only as 'O', comes from a loving family who 'adore and respect him'.

He also had the support of his 14-year-old sister, whose clothes he has been secretly dressing up in.

Read more...

[Queen in the North]

Whenever these types of cases come up, all I have to add is my 'two cents'.

I'm 16 and while I definitely don't want a sex change, I do know that I change my mind about things on a regular basis. Things I wanted six months, or a year ago, I really don't want now. Hell, things I wanted five minutes ago I'm not interested in now.
Take this and make me choose A-levels, and very soon what I want to do at uni which will probably effect me for the rest of my life and that scares the hell out of me - I have no idea what type of person I'll be in five or ten years, and whether I'm going to look back on my decisions now and be happy or regret them.
So, I don't think he should have been told no, I think he should have been made to wait.

[Michelle]

queen.overthink, on 28 December 2010 - 10:31 PM, said:

Whenever these types of cases come up, all I have to add is my 'two cents'.

I'm 16 and while I definitely don't want a sex change, I do know that I change my mind about things on a regular basis. Things I wanted six months, or a year ago, I really don't want now. Hell, things I wanted five minutes ago I'm not interested in now.
Take this and make me choose A-levels, and very soon what I want to do at uni which will probably effect me for the rest of my life and that scares the hell out of me - I have no idea what type of person I'll be in five or ten years, and whether I'm going to look back on my decisions now and be happy or regret them.
So, I don't think he should have been told no, I think he should have been made to wait.

You got it in a nutshell!

[HerNibs]

queen.overthink, on 28 December 2010 - 10:31 PM, said:

Whenever these types of cases come up, all I have to add is my 'two cents'.

I'm 16 and while I definitely don't want a sex change, I do know that I change my mind about things on a regular basis. Things I wanted six months, or a year ago, I really don't want now. Hell, things I wanted five minutes ago I'm not interested in now.
Take this and make me choose A-levels, and very soon what I want to do at uni which will probably effect me for the rest of my life and that scares the hell out of me - I have no idea what type of person I'll be in five or ten years, and whether I'm going to look back on my decisions now and be happy or regret them.
So, I don't think he should have been told no, I think he should have been made to wait.

Well, that about covers it.  



Nibs

[Wickian]

queen.overthink, on 28 December 2010 - 10:31 PM, said:

Whenever these types of cases come up, all I have to add is my 'two cents'.

I'm 16 and while I definitely don't want a sex change, I do know that I change my mind about things on a regular basis. Things I wanted six months, or a year ago, I really don't want now. Hell, things I wanted five minutes ago I'm not interested in now.
Take this and make me choose A-levels, and very soon what I want to do at uni which will probably effect me for the rest of my life and that scares the hell out of me - I have no idea what type of person I'll be in five or ten years, and whether I'm going to look back on my decisions now and be happy or regret them.
So, I don't think he should have been told no, I think he should have been made to wait.

I believe in letting people make mistakes.  16 is old enough to start learning that, at least the judge is making sure he has some sperm on ice.

[voidla]

It's fair saying he's 16, he isn't sure, but he isn't an idiot.

You know, if you really think about it, if you're gonna want a new games console, that you're still gonna be happy with it or not in years to come.

A sex change isn't the same as trivial things like 'do I want those shoes now or in a few weeks?'. It's mucher deeper and this boy must have been thinking about it for years, saying 'well I'm xx age and I don't know' is a stupid answer, you're not him, you're not thinking of a sex change, you don't feel uncomfortable being said gender to the point of wanting a sex change.

[Michelle]

voidla, on 29 December 2010 - 04:15 AM, said:

It's fair saying he's 16, he isn't sure, but he isn't an idiot.

You know, if you really think about it, if you're gonna want a new games console, that you're still gonna be happy with it or not in years to come.

A sex change isn't the same as trivial things like 'do I want those shoes now or in a few weeks?'. It's mucher deeper and this boy must have been thinking about it for years, saying 'well I'm xx age and I don't know' is a stupid answer, you're not him, you're not thinking of a sex change, you don't feel uncomfortable being said gender to the point of wanting a sex change.

But, he shouldn't even be very sexually active at that age. He has plenty of time to experiment, without the raging hormones of a teenager, and without a procedure that is irreversable.

Edited by Michelle, 29 December 2010 - 05:02 AM.

[pickletoes]

queen.overthink, on 28 December 2010 - 10:31 PM, said:

Whenever these types of cases come up, all I have to add is my 'two cents'.

I'm 16 and while I definitely don't want a sex change, I do know that I change my mind about things on a regular basis. Things I wanted six months, or a year ago, I really don't want now. Hell, things I wanted five minutes ago I'm not interested in now.
Take this and make me choose A-levels, and very soon what I want to do at uni which will probably effect me for the rest of my life and that scares the hell out of me - I have no idea what type of person I'll be in five or ten years, and whether I'm going to look back on my decisions now and be happy or regret them.
So, I don't think he should have been told no, I think he should have been made to wait.

Transgendered children, especially Male to Female suffer horribly when they are forced to go through puberty knowing they identify as a female.  This isn't something that springs up on a whim.  Children feel they have been born in the wrong body.  They consider their sex organs to be "birth defects"  and it is traumatic to suffer through growing hair, deepening of the voice and other things.  Imagine your sexual identity, and imagine growing breasts as a boy or getting a deep voice and an erection as girl.  It is about gender not sexuality.

The judge made the perfect decision.  This shouldn't even be news.

[Queen in the North]

voidla, on 29 December 2010 - 04:15 AM, said:

It's fair saying he's 16, he isn't sure, but he isn't an idiot.

You know, if you really think about it, if you're gonna want a new games console, that you're still gonna be happy with it or not in years to come.

A sex change isn't the same as trivial things like 'do I want those shoes now or in a few weeks?'. It's mucher deeper and this boy must have been thinking about it for years, saying 'well I'm xx age and I don't know' is a stupid answer, you're not him, you're not thinking of a sex change, you don't feel uncomfortable being said gender to the point of wanting a sex change.

Thank you. Thank you for being so stereotypical.

Did you read the rest of my post, past the part where I said my age?

I'm not talking about games consoles, or shoes, I'm saying that in ten or so years where you change from a teenager into an adult, you can become a completely different person.

I'm not a total idiot, and don't address me as such, please. I'm aware that it's not been a whimsical decision, he hasn't one day decided he wants to be a woman, but I also think he should experience being a man, as Michelle said without all the raging hormones that go hand in hand with growing up. After that point I believe he should be free to choose to become a woman, as he'll be much more in control of himself and know himself better.  

I'm sorry, but to me his actions don't speak of someone mature enough to make such a big decision as that.


Wickian, I see what you're saying, but I feel a sex change is a pretty big mistake he'd learn from. If I recall correctly, there was a case here in the UK of the judge deciding that the boy in this case had to live as a woman for a year before being allowed to start the permanent sex change process. I feel something along these lines would be a more appropriate decision. Though I do agree that it was a good call on the part of the judge to ensure he has his sperm frozen before going any further.

Pickletoes, I also understand what you're saying, I never claimed that he wanted to change his gender on a whim, I just feel that such a big step as a young age could end in a decision he will regret for the rest of his life. He isn't even old enough to have experienced life as a man yet. At least people who decide to have a sex change when they're in their 20's or 30's know what it's like to be the sex they were born as, and can make the educated decision to change.

[pickletoes]

Honestly you have no idea what you are talking about.  I'd recommend watching this video that 20/20 did on transsexual children.




Once you go through puberty it is very difficult to undo it.  But you give a transsexual the change to have a normal life by allowing them to change as soon as possible.

[pickletoes]

I apologize if understanding a topic better than you seems offensive.  I am just trying to extend information to you.  Studies show that most transsexuals never change their mind later on.  There have been cases of course.  This is why if you read the original article it shows that medical experts are needed to diagnose the situation.

It is usually a long long time of suffering for the child.  I posted the link for you which is about an hour long and it doesn't look as though you actually watched it since you posted a reply about 35 minutes after I posted.

This diagnosis is extraordinarily rare and not usually the same thing as gender confusion.  I'd encourage you to watch the entire 20/20 video.  It has a lot of great information.

[HerNibs]

The young person is 16.  That is not generally old enough to make life changing decisions.

Yes, give the child counseling.  Give the child acceptance.  Allow the child to explore the idea.

I see that one opinion is that being able to transform gender gives an adolescent an easier time adjusting.  I find that hard to believe.  Unless the family is willing to move to another area and allow the child to exist strictly as the opposite sex, the child is going to face some horrendous challenges.  

I see the statement that studies show that most transsexuals do not change their mind over time.  Link?

Are there any studies showing how many 16 year old children who are allowed to do this change their mind?

Here is a brief PDF showing average ages and the fact that over 83% experience abuse of some kind, over 40% experience employment discrimination and 30% experience physical abuse.

I don't know many 30+ year olds that are ready to handle that much less a 16 year old no matter how much support they have.

Here is a good source for all types of transgender information.

This kid may make it.  This kid may be making the correct choice but this kid isn't considered old enough to drink, vote or make their own medical decisions at 16.

Counsel the kid.  Support the kid.  Don't let the child make changes to their body that cannot be undone.

Seriously, I agree with Queen.Overthink.  MOST 16 year old children are not mature enough to make this type of life changing decision.

Nibs

[Queen in the North]

pickletoes, on 29 December 2010 - 03:47 PM, said:

I apologize if understanding a topic better than you seems offensive.  I am just trying to extend information to you.  Studies show that most transsexuals never change their mind later on.  There have been cases of course.  This is why if you read the original article it shows that medical experts are needed to diagnose the situation.

It is usually a long long time of suffering for the child.  I posted the link for you which is about an hour long and it doesn't look as though you actually watched it since you posted a reply about 35 minutes after I posted.

This diagnosis is extraordinarily rare and not usually the same thing as gender confusion.  I'd encourage you to watch the entire 20/20 video.  It has a lot of great information.

Not offended by the idea that you understand more on the subject than I do, offended by the way you phrased it. But I'm over it, I'd have a break down if I took everything on the Internet to heart. I'm usually not one to want to outright argue, I'd rather learn more about the topic at hand, though everyone else on here seems to think that 'discussion' means 'argument'. Also, I apologise as I think I was still a teeny bit defensive from another poster essentially saying that my opinion boiled down to me being indecisive over shoes.    I will check out the entire video though, thank you.

I notice that no one so far has made any mention of the boy's autism. Does anyone know how this might- if at all- affect his condition? The article on the Daily Mail website has it in the headline perhaps to attract more views, but the article barely mentions it save stating that he is 'mildly autistic'.

Edited by queen.overthink, 29 December 2010 - 04:40 PM.

[Still Waters]

queen.overthink, on 29 December 2010 - 04:31 PM, said:

I notice that no one so far has made any mention of the boy's autism. Does anyone know how this might- if at all- affect his condition? The article on the Daily Mail website has it in the headline perhaps to attract more views, but the article barely mentions it save stating that he is 'mildly autistic'.

The boy suffers from mild Asperger's syndrome. I found another link -

http://www.heraldsun...w-1225977496099

[rashore]

I find it interesting that such an invasive surgery would be allowed for someone as young as 16. Nothing to do with if he's mentally up for it, but from the physical aspect.
When I was 16, my doctor was really leery of giving me a much needed knee replacement because my body hadn't finished growing yet, and so a surgery would have fixed me, but was unlikely to go for the best in the long run since I still would have developed after the surgery. Instead of facing more possible knee replacements, I opted to change my lifestyle and not get the first replacement. I'm not implying my knee and the decision to make a sex change are on par, just that doing serious surgery on a developing body can have it's own hazards down the road.
I would have to imagine that a 16 year old would already have some serious hormone action going on, requiring a boatload of therapy, and his body is still developing, which could cause some serious complications as her body finishes growing. I have a friend who has gone male to female as an adult, and she had to do years of therapy before, during, and after her surgery to help ensure that all went well. I can't imagine how much more difficult it would be for a person that is currently undergoing puberty.