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my theory why we have such short lifespans


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#166    Harsh86_Patel

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 09:06 AM

Drinking water was first spoiled then we recently make efforts to improve it,epidemics are first fostered by neglecting hygeine and then we are happy about curing the disease.Many problems leading to a short life span were brought about with advent of civilization and we are now focussing on solving the problems and then crediting ourselves with increasing the longeivity of human life.There have been many historical attestations of prolonged life in the past.
As a biotechnologist i know that our body has the capability of existing indefinately as long as we have nutrition and some basic factors.Senescence and becoming old and dying out are not really a necessity for us Humans or our bodies,instead it has been programmed for us to die out.There is lot of cutting edge research that is going on to prolong our life cycles especially on Telomerase enzyme etc by countering suspected biological reasons for ageing beyond a point and senescence.From observing the potential of our bodies to live for ever as long as a few basic conditions are met the process of becoming old and dying out gets even more difficult to explain in terms of evolution etc.Also natural selection etc can't explain the late advent of sexual maturity,sexual reproduction or a shorter life span etc,we have animals that are known to live for hundreds of years.But in all cases it seems that death is programmed rather then a natural outcome,any biological cell has the potential for staying alive as long as there is nutrition and no direct major physical/chemical harm but the observation is that cell is proggramed to die out in case of us higher animals.Death is not really a natural process and neither is an absolute requirement when observed closely it seems to be programmed into our genetic codes and goes against every naturalistic principle of survival.
Overpopulation cannot cause senescence,it can increase the intensity of struggle for survival but cannot account for ageing and death.


#167    Ever Learning

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 09:34 AM

Gas round the villages might of been from the practice of the tudors who used steamed vinegar and other steam chemical to combat the sweating sickness, its most probable that they were using this for the plague before the outbreak was known to the populace. the sweating sickness was meant to be able to be spread through the air.

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#168    Harsh86_Patel

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 05:51 AM

http://en.wikipedia..../Life_extension
Gives a good overview of various life extension and senescence delaying research.


#169    thenaturalvitalityelysium

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 03:35 AM

View PostDieChecker, on 08 October 2012 - 04:30 AM, said:

The good news is that probably at 25 a person can expect with medical advances in progress to live twice as long as their parents. Maybe to 150 years or more, because as you age, even more advances will be made, further pushing out your lifespan.

The bad news is that telling people to be Open and Imaginative is all very good, but without evidence you're just spouting out Opinion. An arguement that is Unsupported.

I do believe the human race is quickly being changed by our environments. As a whole, we are loosing our eyesight and hair rapidly, and we are moving less on average. And we are using our brains in ways that our hunter/gatherer forefathers could not have imagined. Thus evolution will support those whos brain works better with a computer, as he/she will have a better income and a more secure life, and have more opportunities and better resources to raise children.

It is just like breeding dogs. A new breed can be developed actually very quickly, and they can sometimes appear nothing at all like their parent breeds. Humans are adapting to their enviroment... being breed for their enviroment... very quickly.

Although I agree with some of what you said, and of course evidence based arguments are what science is all about. However the quote about "no room for imagination in science" is about the funniest thing I've ever heard LMAO my husband is a mathematician, many of my good friends are physicists and chemical engineers engaged in research. There is ALWAYS room for imagination in science. Breakthroughs, leaps of thinking, that "Eureka" moment. Mulling things over, going to sleep and dreaming abot a problem and waking up with the answer and being creative- are all part of scientific process. Only the "grunts" who never publish anything but trivial papers and never really think for themselves in the academic world would believe the ridiculous statement "there is no room for imagination in science". HMMMM Einsten would roll over in his grave at that statement.. imagination is sooo important to science.. otherwise data is meaningless.. you gather data.. then according to other research available and models of thought available..have to decide what it means.. even in maths


#170    thenaturalvitalityelysium

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 04:01 AM

Interesting thoughts about what we are "breeding" humans towards. I always wryly thought we are breeding in people who are good as:

- sales people,
-manipulative people, people who are good at influencing others, and of course
-"techy" types- programmers and engineers,
-Retail sales people (usually peppy good looking bimbo types both men and women (god bless them) to sell us goods in shops,but largely-- pardon my waffle- we seem to breeding in
-"administrators"  da da daaaaa (ominous background music) god save us all LMAO

If you look in the job ads (at least in Australia) a huge amount of them are administrative
- Stereotypically they are
-small nosed beedy eyed administrators (glasses optional) who are
-incredibly anal, good organisers, meticulous, efficient and often (but not always)
-are lean with very poor musculature-
-sometimes "people-person's" but usually only in a "get ahead" kind of way..
-underneath this facade they are usually cold, calculating "lizard" types that lack compassion to the point of us breeding in sociopathically inclined types (people who beyond the social facade of warmth are so cold, compassionless, hard and calculating that eventually you are breeding in serial killer type personality extremes)

.. although we also seem to be paying big muscular "tradie" type of men ridiculously high pay, so maybe we are getting a reasonable spectrum..

BUT we seem to be moving towards a more effeminate society.. we celebrate feminine men, and ultra feminine women.. and many of the "man-y man.. traditional" men's roles (blue collar, construction etc. when blokes were blokes) seem to be dwindling (I could be wrong what do people think?).

Incidentally I think the American movie style propaganda probably influences the direction in which humans are breeding into. The American movies (not all, but many of them, and most of the blockbuster types) are definitely still pushing the "blue eyed" agenda, very political and  very ethnicity orientating..(in their own direction.. favouring ethnic groups with blue eyes etc. who is funding this stuff, makes you wonder) also very sexist, very prejudiced against fat people, very prejudiced against many different countries internationally..and they keep pushing their own trade (ie. weed/pot)..to the point that I am like "OK American movie makers, we get that you must own interests that make money from pot sales, and that you have no other way of advertising our product.. but seriously stop pushing dangerous drug use that can cause permanent damage on our impressionable youths.. remind me never to watch mainstream American movies designed for the masses ever again" (and yet I go back for more- totally sucked in)

I worry that we are breeding up very technically brilliant people in terms of intelligence, but that we are breeding OUT compassionate people.. and this may lead to us having more world wars, more problems generally, more pollution, just everything wrong with the world that gets pushed to one side by the dominating technocrats who lack a deep and forward looking all encompassing sense of compassion.


#171    thenaturalvitalityelysium

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 04:08 AM

View Postthenaturalvitalityelysium, on 12 October 2012 - 04:01 AM, said:

Interesting thoughts about what we are "breeding" humans towards. I always wryly thought we are breeding in people who are good as:

- sales people,
-manipulative people, people who are good at influencing others, and of course
-"techy" types- programmers and engineers,
-Retail sales people (usually peppy good looking bimbo types both men and women (god bless them) to sell us goods in shops,but largely-- pardon my waffle- we seem to breeding in
-"administrators"  da da daaaaa (ominous background music) god save us all LMAO

If you look in the job ads (at least in Australia) a huge amount of them are administrative
- Stereotypically they are
-small nosed beedy eyed administrators (glasses optional) who are
-incredibly anal, good organisers, meticulous, efficient and often (but not always)
-are lean with very poor musculature-
-sometimes "people-person's" but usually only in a "get ahead" kind of way..
-underneath this facade they are usually cold, calculating "lizard" types that lack compassion to the point of us breeding in sociopathically inclined types (people who beyond the social facade of warmth are so cold, compassionless, hard and calculating that eventually you are breeding in serial killer type personality extremes)

.. although we also seem to be paying big muscular "tradie" type of men ridiculously high pay, so maybe we are getting a reasonable spectrum..

BUT we seem to be moving towards a more effeminate society.. we celebrate feminine men, and ultra feminine women.. and many of the "man-y man.. traditional" men's roles (blue collar, construction etc. when blokes were blokes) seem to be dwindling (I could be wrong what do people think?).

Incidentally I think the American movie style propaganda probably influences the direction in which humans are breeding into. The American movies (not all, but many of them, and most of the blockbuster types) are definitely still pushing the "blue eyed" agenda, very political and  very ethnicity orientating..(in their own direction.. favouring ethnic groups with blue eyes etc. who is funding this stuff, makes you wonder) also very sexist, very prejudiced against fat people, very prejudiced against many different countries internationally..and they keep pushing their own trade (ie. weed/pot)..to the point that I am like "OK American movie makers, we get that you must own interests that make money from pot sales, and that you have no other way of advertising our product.. but seriously stop pushing dangerous drug use that can cause permanent damage on our impressionable youths.. remind me never to watch mainstream American movies designed for the masses ever again" (and yet I go back for more- totally sucked in)

I worry that we are breeding up very technically brilliant people in terms of intelligence, but that we are breeding OUT compassionate people.. and this may lead to us having more world wars, more problems generally, more pollution, just everything wrong with the world that gets pushed to one side by the dominating technocrats who lack a deep and forward looking all encompassing sense of compassion.

By the way.. I apologise in advance for my awful stereotyping (from my previous comments) and that at work I perform semi-administrative duties myself.. and do not strictly fit into all stereotype points (I am a creative type, into music, art, writing fiction, reading widely..and happen to have ridiculously good musculature to my bitter disappointment XD and no glasses yet, but give me another 10 years in front of a computer screen :D and we'll see (aww) also there are plenty of people in administrative types who are none of the above stereotypes.. and even if they were, nothing wrong with that.. in fact those stereotype administrators are probably the ones about to get the promotion and run the place..


#172    thenaturalvitalityelysium

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 04:50 AM

View PostHarsh86_Patel, on 09 October 2012 - 09:06 AM, said:

Drinking water was first spoiled then we recently make efforts to improve it,epidemics are first fostered by neglecting hygeine and then we are happy about curing the disease.Many problems leading to a short life span were brought about with advent of civilization and we are now focussing on solving the problems and then crediting ourselves with increasing the longeivity of human life.There have been many historical attestations of prolonged life in the past.
As a biotechnologist i know that our body has the capability of existing indefinately as long as we have nutrition and some basic factors.Senescence and becoming old and dying out are not really a necessity for us Humans or our bodies,instead it has been programmed for us to die out.There is lot of cutting edge research that is going on to prolong our life cycles especially on Telomerase enzyme etc by countering suspected biological reasons for ageing beyond a point and senescence.From observing the potential of our bodies to live for ever as long as a few basic conditions are met the process of becoming old and dying out gets even more difficult to explain in terms of evolution etc.Also natural selection etc can't explain the late advent of sexual maturity,sexual reproduction or a shorter life span etc,we have animals that are known to live for hundreds of years.But in all cases it seems that death is programmed rather then a natural outcome,any biological cell has the potential for staying alive as long as there is nutrition and no direct major physical/chemical harm but the observation is that cell is proggramed to die out in case of us higher animals.Death is not really a natural process and neither is an absolute requirement when observed closely it seems to be programmed into our genetic codes and goes against every naturalistic principle of survival.
Overpopulation cannot cause senescence,it can increase the intensity of struggle for survival but cannot account for ageing and death.

It is so bizarre- has any-one ever heard of programmed obsoletion? It is a phenomena where a company making a product (for example a printer or other electronic appliance or piece of technology) actually PROGRAMS in for the product to stop working after a certain amount of uses or a timer- so that people are forced to buy a new product to replace it. That's capitalism for you. BUT back to the point of where I am going with this- how amazing and strange that we as humans have this same phenomena in biological terms- we are programmed to die. You start feeling it- the aging process starts around say 24 years old- but we don't notice it till we are about 25, 26, 27, 28 etc. etc. first small things and then more and more things. it's bizarre- aging is bizarre- is anyone else with me on this? How much better would it be if we could have perfect health with no aging till the day we die after a long, long, happy life. Does anyone else (appart from being generally happy and grateful for the blessings they DO have in life and let's all pause to feel gratitude............) feel like that once they reach full adulthood that aging should be stop and that at that point we have a long period of  near perfect equilibrium at adulthood.

Can someone please fix my telomeres and improve them ;D  the points so far that really caught my interest in terms of an awesome fiction (maybe someone can put it in a Dr Who episode) is the idea that we have short lifespans because it is inconvenient to have slaves with a longer lifespan- they remember too much etc. has anyone ever seen the movie "They live" where the human population is a short lived slave breed created to serve EITHER a) long lived humans or virtually immortals B) an alien race in both cases that they have blended seamlessly into the human population- until one day this guy gets special glasses and he can see through their normal human facade and see that their faces underneath are "preserved" muscle, soft rottable exterior flesh removed, and important functional tendons preserved in some weird biotech way.. and then he sees that they rule the world secretly and also have space tech. and other technologies that they would NEVER disclose to everyone else.. Man I love sci-fi movies.. this one sounds like something I would write myself for kicks. good fun..


#173    Harsh86_Patel

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 05:14 AM

View Postthenaturalvitalityelysium, on 12 October 2012 - 03:35 AM, said:

Although I agree with some of what you said, and of course evidence based arguments are what science is all about. However the quote about "no room for imagination in science" is about the funniest thing I've ever heard LMAO my husband is a mathematician, many of my good friends are physicists and chemical engineers engaged in research. There is ALWAYS room for imagination in science. Breakthroughs, leaps of thinking, that "Eureka" moment. Mulling things over, going to sleep and dreaming abot a problem and waking up with the answer and being creative- are all part of scientific process. Only the "grunts" who never publish anything but trivial papers and never really think for themselves in the academic world would believe the ridiculous statement "there is no room for imagination in science". HMMMM Einsten would roll over in his grave at that statement.. imagination is sooo important to science.. otherwise data is meaningless.. you gather data.. then according to other research available and models of thought available..have to decide what it means.. even in maths
Inspiration and imagination have lead to major scientific breakthroughs and still many people try to seperate scientific thought from our own consciousness and spirituality.Science is a human system and is a systematic representation of our perception of the world,it is not an alien entity that we are trying to learn and understand.Here is a good link talking about the same issue:http://www.brainpick...ein-met-tagore/


#174    Harsh86_Patel

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 05:24 AM

View Postthenaturalvitalityelysium, on 12 October 2012 - 04:50 AM, said:

It is so bizarre- has any-one ever heard of programmed obsoletion? It is a phenomena where a company making a product (for example a printer or other electronic appliance or piece of technology) actually PROGRAMS in for the product to stop working after a certain amount of uses or a timer- so that people are forced to buy a new product to replace it. That's capitalism for you. BUT back to the point of where I am going with this- how amazing and strange that we as humans have this same phenomena in biological terms- we are programmed to die. You start feeling it- the aging process starts around say 24 years old- but we don't notice it till we are about 25, 26, 27, 28 etc. etc. first small things and then more and more things. it's bizarre- aging is bizarre- is anyone else with me on this? How much better would it be if we could have perfect health with no aging till the day we die after a long, long, happy life. Does anyone else (appart from being generally happy and grateful for the blessings they DO have in life and let's all pause to feel gratitude............) feel like that once they reach full adulthood that aging should be stop and that at that point we have a long period of  near perfect equilibrium at adulthood.

Can someone please fix my telomeres and improve them ;D  the points so far that really caught my interest in terms of an awesome fiction (maybe someone can put it in a Dr Who episode) is the idea that we have short lifespans because it is inconvenient to have slaves with a longer lifespan- they remember too much etc. has anyone ever seen the movie "They live" where the human population is a short lived slave breed created to serve EITHER a) long lived humans or virtually immortals B) an alien race in both cases that they have blended seamlessly into the human population- until one day this guy gets special glasses and he can see through their normal human facade and see that their faces underneath are "preserved" muscle, soft rottable exterior flesh removed, and important functional tendons preserved in some weird biotech way.. and then he sees that they rule the world secretly and also have space tech. and other technologies that they would NEVER disclose to everyone else.. Man I love sci-fi movies.. this one sounds like something I would write myself for kicks. good fun..
The only darwinistic principle that can support Death is a psychological one and not a physical one.The impending timer of death may cause the animal/human to reproduce faster and more aggresively and hence the destructive mutation that led to shortness of life could have carried on and it is entirely plausible that people might have lived to 10 times more then our existing generation time before the so called mutation.
I would doubt Enki or Enlil trying to decrease our life span genetically,they may have stopped providing life elongating drugs etc so that we naturally die out faster or have shorter life span.
In Hindu myhtology it is the transition from better Yugas to worse ones (the present being the worst called Kali Yuga) that decreases the amount of time we live.(One yuga cycle(4 different yugas was supposed to be 432000/00 years,Since you are a Sitchin fan the number might ring a bell).


#175    Harsh86_Patel

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 05:59 AM

Lol advertisers.Sesh are you watching?





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