Jump to content




Welcome to Unexplained Mysteries! Please sign in or create an account to start posting and to access a host of extra features.


* * * * * 1 votes

Göbekli Tepe-10 000 BC


  • Please log in to reply
297 replies to this topic

#286    Abramelin

Abramelin

    -

  • Member
  • 18,180 posts
  • Joined:07 May 2005
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:"Here the tide is ruled, by the wind, the moon and us."

  • God created the world, but the Dutch created the Netherlands

Posted 26 February 2013 - 06:50 AM

View PostSwede, on 25 February 2013 - 10:32 PM, said:

Abe: Actually the distinction between the two terms is of importance.

While cultural anthropologists have engaged in numerous philosophical and theoretical debates over the definition of "culture", the following is a reasonable distillation.

Culture - Learned and transmitted behavioral and technological information conducive to a groups adaptation to, and survival in, a given environmental setting.

Thus, comparatively small (or notably extended) groups share some degree of commonly transmitted knowledge. This does not necessarily imply higher levels of social organization and structure.

Civilization, on the other hand, incorporates (as noted by Searcher) a number of additional elements. Again, definitions can have some degree of variability. The following reference may provide some insight:

http://www.wmich.edu...vilization.html

.

Reading that website makes my feeling that it is nothing but bickering about the exact meaning of some word only stronger.


#287    TheSearcher

TheSearcher

    Coffee expert extraordinair

  • Member
  • 3,845 posts
  • Joined:16 Jun 2009
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Belgium

Posted 26 February 2013 - 06:55 AM

View PostHarsh86_Patel, on 26 February 2013 - 06:08 AM, said:

It does..your statements suggests that Mehrgarh was a separate identity from the IVC which is not the case.

My statement says that Mehrgarh was the precursor of the IVC, no more no less, it suggests nothing. And even if the age of the IVC and it's precursors are pushed back, it does not change the fact that we are still left with a time difference, in between Göbekli Tepe's burying of the temple and Mehrgarh. Because I don't see it being pushed back more than 400 years. And still remains the distance factor, nearly 4000 miles. So I'll repeat the influence from Göbekli Tepe towards Mehrgarh, is a possibility, but not the other way around.

It is only the ignorant who despise education.
Publilius Syrus.

So god made me an atheist. Who are you to question his wisdom?!

#288    Harsh86_Patel

Harsh86_Patel

    Psychic Spy

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,306 posts
  • Joined:08 Aug 2012
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:India

  • If you stare into the abyss,the abyss stares back into you

Posted 27 February 2013 - 07:13 AM

View PostTheSearcher, on 26 February 2013 - 06:55 AM, said:

My statement says that Mehrgarh was the precursor of the IVC, no more no less, it suggests nothing. And even if the age of the IVC and it's precursors are pushed back, it does not change the fact that we are still left with a time difference, in between Göbekli Tepe's burying of the temple and Mehrgarh. Because I don't see it being pushed back more than 400 years. And still remains the distance factor, nearly 4000 miles. So I'll repeat the influence from Göbekli Tepe towards Mehrgarh, is a possibility, but not the other way around.
No proof of human inhabitation in Tepe. Where were the people coming from to worship or to maintain the temple/hunters hall/Centre of pilgrimage?.Had to be a cultured and organised bunch to boot....i don't buy the hunter gatherers deciding one fine day to build the complex for kicks theory.Everything is possible... IVC could have extended all the way till tepe....you never know.2500 Miles is more like it not 4000 miles.Places of pilgrimage can be far of from the place of residence and this could justify the back filling of the complex to protect it from local or foreign invaders/vandals etc.


#289    TheSearcher

TheSearcher

    Coffee expert extraordinair

  • Member
  • 3,845 posts
  • Joined:16 Jun 2009
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Belgium

Posted 27 February 2013 - 09:23 AM

View PostHarsh86_Patel, on 27 February 2013 - 07:13 AM, said:

No proof of human inhabitation in Tepe. Where were the people coming from to worship or to maintain the temple/hunters hall/Centre of pilgrimage?.Had to be a cultured and organised bunch to boot....i don't buy the hunter gatherers deciding one fine day to build the complex for kicks theory.Everything is possible... IVC could have extended all the way till tepe....you never know.2500 Miles is more like it not 4000 miles.Places of pilgrimage can be far of from the place of residence and this could justify the back filling of the complex to protect it from local or foreign invaders/vandals etc.

Dr. Klaus Schmidt says that  the inhabitants are assumed to have been hunters and gatherers who nevertheless lived in villages for at least part of the year. Semi nomadic life style would account for the no proof of human inhabitation at the site itself.
If I have to chose between what you assume or what an archaeologist says that has been studying the site for the last 18 years, then sorry but the archaeologist wins.

It is only the ignorant who despise education.
Publilius Syrus.

So god made me an atheist. Who are you to question his wisdom?!

#290    docyabut2

docyabut2

    Alien Abducter

  • Member
  • 5,388 posts
  • Joined:12 Aug 2011

Posted 27 February 2013 - 10:37 AM

I suggest they keep digging, if the temples were buried, then the inhabitation or dwellings of these people may also have been buried.


#291    third_eye

third_eye

    ¤_Ě M ă Ġ î ń Ć Ř Ī ü Ş_ ¤

  • Member
  • 12,265 posts
  • Joined:06 Nov 2010
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Malaysia

  • - God has no religion ~ Mahatma Gandhi -

    "Legio nomen mihi est, quia multi sumus"

Posted 27 February 2013 - 11:17 AM

the people were nomadic, they travel constantly and seasonal sites are dependent on nature as seasonal rains or summer dryness are not constant.

Some sites might be abandoned for years before a return visit. The plains is vast and highly accessible. When more adopted the changed culture for cultivation, some of these sites would be forgotten.

He who postpones the hour of living rightly ... is like the rustic who waits for the river to run out ... before he crosses.
Horace - Roman lyric poet & satirist 65 BC - 8 BC
~

third_eye cavern ~ bring own beer


#292    egesagin

egesagin

    Alien Embryo

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 50 posts
  • Joined:09 Aug 2013
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Istanbul/Turkey

  • "My God... it's full of stars!"

Posted 10 August 2013 - 07:26 PM

Hi all, as I'm from Turkey, I'm very interested in these places, but I don't have anyone with paranormal/cryptozoology/alternate history/unexplained mysteries interests. As this land was occupied since very very old times, it's full of interesting stuff like the underground city in Cappadocia or Göbeklitepe and some other places.

So, if anyone here plans to visit, please contact me. The least I can do is have a beer with you in Istanbul before you start on your journey. If it is in the summertime, I would love to form a party and travel those mysterious places together. Not many believers in alternative history theories here, and our country's standing with science is not so good as you may know. So we could help each other out :)


#293    lightly

lightly

    metaphysical therapist

  • Member
  • 7,002 posts
  • Joined:01 Apr 2009
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Michigan U.S.A.

  • "The future ain't what it used to be"
    Yogi Berra

Posted 11 August 2013 - 12:21 AM

...   i keep wondering if Gobekli Tepe  may have been more of a political center than religious ?  ?   ..  or maybe a combination of. We really don't know what the culture was like ? ..  maybe they developed some strict political /  clan  system. Just something to consider, other than  .. temples.


  * add a ?

Edited by lightly, 11 August 2013 - 12:35 AM.

Important:  The above may contain errors, inaccuracies, omissions, and other limitations.

#294    jaylemurph

jaylemurph

    "If we would know, then we would be more wisdomed."

  • Member
  • 9,553 posts
  • Joined:02 Nov 2006
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Seattle, WA

  • "You can lead a whore to culture, but you can't make him think." Dorothy Parker

Posted 11 August 2013 - 02:09 AM

View Postlightly, on 11 August 2013 - 12:21 AM, said:

...   i keep wondering if Gobekli Tepe  may have been more of a political center than religious ?  ?   ..  or maybe a combination of. We really don't know what the culture was like ? ..  maybe they developed some strict political /  clan  system. Just something to consider, other than  .. temples.


  * add a ?

It very probably was. The idea of religion and politics even being different things is a very modern concept (at the earliest, the 17th Century CE, I believe). I think our own (collective) understanding of the two as separate often clouds our perspective, so this was an excellent thing to point out.

--Jaylemurph

"... amongst the most obstinate of our opinions may be classed those which derive from discussions in which we affect to search for the truth, while in reality we are only fortifying prejudice."     -- James Fenimore Cooper, The Pathfinder

Posted Image

Deeply venial

#295    lightly

lightly

    metaphysical therapist

  • Member
  • 7,002 posts
  • Joined:01 Apr 2009
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Michigan U.S.A.

  • "The future ain't what it used to be"
    Yogi Berra

Posted 11 August 2013 - 11:58 AM

Thanks Jaylemurph...   i just keep wondering about the animal and other symbols at Gobekli tepe       as representing clans  or  groups from different areas.
The Roman senate met in a separate building for political stuff... but worshiped in temples and at alters?      Some small separation of "church and state" was underway ?
    .. then again,  our senate opens with a prayer.

Important:  The above may contain errors, inaccuracies, omissions, and other limitations.

#296    Harte

Harte

    Supremely Educated Knower of Everything in Existence.

  • Member
  • 11,481 posts
  • Joined:06 Aug 2006
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Memphis

  • Skeptic

Posted 11 August 2013 - 02:35 PM

View Postlightly, on 11 August 2013 - 11:58 AM, said:

Thanks Jaylemurph...   i just keep wondering about the animal and other symbols at Gobekli tepe as representing clans  or  groups from different areas.

They may also have represented deities in some animal worship religion.  Also, animals are an intrinsic part of shamanism, which is, some think, quite an old religion:

Quote

Various archaeologists and historians of religion have also suggested that shamanism may have been a dominant pre-religious practice for humanity during the Palaeolithic.

Source: wiki

With animal worship, one theory is that the worshipped animals may have originated as clan or family totems or even just representaives of individual families and then later became elevated.  Which goes right back to your speculation concerning the matter.

AFAIK, Shamanism is not, however, very closely related to animal worship.  On the other hand, the elevation of certain animals to "guides" in a shamanistic culture may well have originated in clan totems, just as is supposed regarding animal worship types of belefs.

Harte

Posted Image
See the new Harte Mark III
And the Mayan panoramas on my pyramid pajamas haven't helped my little problem. - The Alan Parsons Project
Most people would die sooner than think; in fact, they do so. - Bertrand Russell
Anybody like Coleridge?

#297    lightly

lightly

    metaphysical therapist

  • Member
  • 7,002 posts
  • Joined:01 Apr 2009
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Michigan U.S.A.

  • "The future ain't what it used to be"
    Yogi Berra

Posted 12 August 2013 - 11:25 AM

Thanks Harte... i just had an inkling about the symbols.     Amerinds still have clans associated with animals.



inkling |ˈiNGkliNG|nouna slight knowledge or suspicion; a hint: the records give us an inkling of how people saw the world.

Important:  The above may contain errors, inaccuracies, omissions, and other limitations.

#298    Jeremiah65

Jeremiah65

    Seeker of knowledge

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,097 posts
  • Joined:25 Jun 2012
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:The mists at the edge of your dreams...

  • "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." Aristotle

Posted 12 August 2013 - 09:46 PM

I've just recently started reading up on this place, it's so fascinating.  I haven't really had much time or found a whole lot of material.  I started reading about it about a year or so ago.


I am chomping at the bit for them to reveal more.  From what I have read, they have only excavated something like 10 to 15% of the site.  Something like 16 circles are known through GPR but are not being worked on yet.  I wonder if this thing could go back even further...

I have little more to say on it as I don't know much but as of now...this is the most interesting site in the world to me...I want to know more!

Edited by Jeremiah65, 12 August 2013 - 09:49 PM.

"Liberty means responsibility.  That is why most men dread it."  George Bernard Shaw
"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it."  Thomas Jefferson

Posted Image




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users