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Göbekli Tepe-10 000 BC


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#76    lightly

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Posted 18 February 2011 - 12:30 PM

Interesting Jules and Flash,    here is a neolithic goddess from France... i can tell she's a girl because of the two bumps on her chest.   Notice what's going on beneath her neck.. not the V neck exactly but something similar going on.     The Male figures with the hands on the guts ( especially with the V neck thing) is what intrigues me most.. because  they are not mother figures..  but maybe Father figures?   er  .. uh... sumpthin.

Attached File  220px-La_Dame_de_Saint-Sernin.jpg   23.9K   38 downloads


* pardon the off topic excursion L ? .... we'll end up back at Gobekli Tepe .... promise.

Edited by lightly, 18 February 2011 - 12:32 PM.

Important:  The above may contain errors, inaccuracies, omissions, and other limitations.

#77    Flashbangwollap

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Posted 18 February 2011 - 01:01 PM

 lightly, on 18 February 2011 - 12:30 PM, said:

Interesting Jules and Flash,    here is a neolithic goddess from France... i can tell she's a girl because of the two bumps on her chest.   Notice what's going on beneath her neck.. not the V neck exactly but something similar going on. The Male figures with the hands on the guts ( especially with the V neck thing) is what intrigues me most.. because  they are not mother figures..  but maybe Father figures?   er  .. uh... sumpthin.

220px-La_Dame_de_Saint-Sernin.jpg


* pardon the off topic excursion L ? .... we'll end up back at Gobekli Tepe .... promise.
Hi Lightly just googled but the name seems to have been added recently or do you have a source for the Menhir photo? I think that's what they call them when found on the Isles around the Med. Perhaps this is a Femehir.;)

Have a butchers at this!
http://www.flickr.co...@N00/4937849284

Sorry guys but cant find what was a photo of a circle or line of menhirs portrayed with swords etc I'll keep looking and if I find them I'll pop them on a separate post

Edited by Flashbangwollap, 18 February 2011 - 01:29 PM.


#78    Oniomancer

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Posted 18 February 2011 - 01:10 PM

 Ove, on 17 February 2011 - 10:34 PM, said:

The priests are the creators of animals, of new life. The purpose of the gatherings inside the stone circles, is the creation of new life, together with the great creators, the stone age priests.
One has the immediate impression that your biology has been sorely neglected.

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#79    Oniomancer

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Posted 18 February 2011 - 01:25 PM

 lightly, on 18 February 2011 - 12:30 PM, said:

Interesting Jules and Flash,    here is a neolithic goddess from France... i can tell she's a girl because of the two bumps on her chest.   Notice what's going on beneath her neck.. not the V neck exactly but something similar going on.     The Male figures with the hands on the guts ( especially with the V neck thing) is what intrigues me most.. because  they are not mother figures..  but maybe Father figures?   er  .. uh... sumpthin.

220px-La_Dame_de_Saint-Sernin.jpg


* pardon the off topic excursion L ? .... we'll end up back at Gobekli Tepe .... promise.
Now see, that at least looks like a person. Sort of. Or a weeble.

Speaking of menhirs, I could cite examples of representative megalithic statuary from the island of Corsica as flash alludes to, albeit with no hands. Given the evidence, the suggestion of extreme abstraction in the case of the Gobekli Tepe stones seems unlikely.

BTW, I believe the correct appellation here would be womenhirs.

Edited by Oniomancer, 18 February 2011 - 01:26 PM.

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#80    Flashbangwollap

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Posted 18 February 2011 - 01:31 PM

 Oniomancer, on 18 February 2011 - 01:25 PM, said:

Now see, that at least looks like a person. Sort of. Or a weeble.

Speaking of menhirs, I could cite examples of representative megalithic statuary from the island of Corsica as flash alludes to, albeit with no hands. Given the evidence, the suggestion of extreme abstraction in the case of the Gobekli Tepe stones seems unlikely.

BTW, I believe the correct appellation here would be womenhirs.

Hey come on the lady is from France Wee?


#81    lightly

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Posted 18 February 2011 - 07:51 PM

thanks oniomancer,     I'm just learning about statue menhirs ..

http://www.languedoc...314_dolmens.htm
Dolmens, hypogeums and menhirs were built about 3500-2000 BC in a strip through modern France from Brittany to the coast of the Mediterranean Sea.

Broadly speaking Menhirs are single prehistoric standing stones. The word menhir is of Celtic origin men "stone" and hir "long".   Dolmens are more complex structures, often roofed passageways. The name is Celtic: from dol "table" and men "stone".   The term Megalith is more general, and derives from the Greek mega "Great" and lithos "stone".

Dolmens are prehistoric tombs. Menhirs are generally thought to be religious symbols for a prehistoric fertility cult.   In some cases they may be merely limit stones between different tribal territories.   As elsewhere in Europe, many have been vandalised by Christians.

  YA!   the rascals ...   there must have been SO many more standing stones and dolmens and so on..  It's fascinating that sort of thing went on for so long .. and was so widespread.  Very important stuff.

Hey ya Flashbangwallop , that's an interesting site at Menorca .... on Menorca.. an island??  anyway.. pretty typical construction techniques for the times   .. with the niches . The pilaster wall supports are pretty clever engineering.

we're heading back to GobekliTepe soon  L   :lol:

Edited by lightly, 18 February 2011 - 08:00 PM.

Important:  The above may contain errors, inaccuracies, omissions, and other limitations.

#82    Big Bad Voodoo

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Posted 18 February 2011 - 11:39 PM

It is not problem lightly. At least for me.

Maybe may next sentence is little fringe but Im gonna say it anyway.


Look at this image:
Posted Image

it is from this site: http://www.articlesa...-settlement113/

It seems to me that sculpture is hidding his genital organ. It looks like he is shamed. Like he is suddenly realize that he is naked.
Maybe it symbolize Adam.
Maybe Gobekli Tepe is Eden.

Edited by the L, 18 February 2011 - 11:40 PM.

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#83    Big Bad Voodoo

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Posted 18 February 2011 - 11:44 PM

 Oniomancer, on 16 February 2011 - 12:16 AM, said:

So if these are supposed to be priests, why don't they look like priests instead of a bunch of flat slabs covered with assorted animal carvings?
Maybe because it has other purpose then just symbol of priest (?). For example building purpose.

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#84    Swede

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Posted 19 February 2011 - 12:15 AM

 lightly, on 18 February 2011 - 12:30 PM, said:

Interesting Jules and Flash,    here is a neolithic goddess from France... i can tell she's a girl because of the two bumps on her chest.   Notice what's going on beneath her neck.. not the V neck exactly but something similar going on. The Male figures with the hands on the guts ( especially with the V neck thing) is what intrigues me most.. because  they are not mother figures..  but maybe Father figures?   er  .. uh... sumpthin.

220px-La_Dame_de_Saint-Sernin.jpg


* pardon the off topic excursion L ? .... we'll end up back at Gobekli Tepe .... promise.

Hi lightly! - Have been following the train of thought. A couple of things to consider:

The arm placement on the various representations may be nothing more than a matter of graphic functionality, meaning, you are working on a single, simply formed monolith with limited tooling. How else would one depict the upper limbs in an understandable and efficient manner?  Keeping in mind, of course, that the representation of the arms and the hands would also be a very "human" distinguishing characteristic.

Given the rather extensive archaeological and ethnographic evidence for the use of beads (strings of) for personal adornment (possibly as early as Neanderthal), may not the "V" necks be representative of this aspect? The above photo would appear to be most consistent with such. Another factor that may be worth keeping in mind here. In addition to adornment, beads would appear to also have had a number of other connotations (wealth/status). Do to the mobile nature of earlier cultures, "wealth" had to be easily transportable. Even as late as the North American Fur Trade, it has been noted that a man/woman wore their wealth around their neck.

Just some thoughts.

.


#85    lightly

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Posted 19 February 2011 - 03:37 AM

Thank's Swede,  for the info and for putting things into perspective.   I was thinking on my way to work today that one of our more knowledgeable members might come along and clarify things in a paragraph or two.     I suppose the hand placements and V necks  aren't as mysterious or important as i might imagine .    Still,   they seem to repeat over great expanses of time and geography .....      La Dame de Saint-Sernin does  show what could be necklaces in a draped , curving,  manner .    I'll try to find more examples of the sharper V neck look....  I just wonder if that might have had some other significance in the minds of the makers?    
I appreciate your point about the graphic functionality of the hand placements.   The  repetitive pose seems somehow ceremonial and traditional to me ...  from my admittedly  imaginative layman's perspective  that is.

  And Yes L ,  the hands are found a bit further down on some examples... some  exhibiting obvious or stylized "privates"     Your idea about Adam and shame is interesting.   I too was wondering about  hands over procreative areas ...  Wombs, in the case of Motherly figures.  Much is attributed to fertility cults..   But i always wonder if there might sometimes be a more spiritual impetus involved ?    As i was alluding to earlier...   ideas of Soul and Life force portrayed in some poses?  ..  see?  there i go again !  :lol:

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#86    Oniomancer

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Posted 19 February 2011 - 05:38 AM

 the L, on 18 February 2011 - 11:44 PM, said:

Maybe because it has other purpose then just symbol of priest (?). For example building purpose.
A column or support can be figural and still serve it's function. I continue to find the idea of their being figurally representational in themselves to be uncompelling.

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#87    jules99

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Posted 19 February 2011 - 07:07 AM

 the L, on 18 February 2011 - 11:39 PM, said:

It is not problem lightly. At least for me.

Maybe may next sentence is little fringe but Im gonna say it anyway.




It seems to me that sculpture is hidding his genital organ. It looks like he is shamed. Like he is suddenly realize that he is naked.
Maybe it symbolize Adam.
Maybe Gobekli Tepe is Eden.
Hi the L;
Did you notice what appears to be a discolouration and a round hollow  directly underneath his genitals. The hollow may have contained ochre or anything really I suppose that could have been smeared over the lucky recipient as part of a fertility rite or ritual. Thanks thats a really clear photo...Ive saved it.
With these stone carvings  maybe tatoos might be drawn in also....the weeble lady looks like she has facial tattoos or whiskers.... unsure
Cheers

Edited by jules99, 19 February 2011 - 07:08 AM.


#88    Paracelse

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Posted 19 February 2011 - 07:10 AM

 lightly, on 18 February 2011 - 12:30 PM, said:

Interesting Jules and Flash,    here is a neolithic goddess from France... i can tell she's a girl because of the two bumps on her chest.   Notice what's going on beneath her neck.. not the V neck exactly but something similar going on.     The Male figures with the hands on the guts ( especially with the V neck thing) is what intrigues me most.. because  they are not mother figures..  but maybe Father figures?   er  .. uh... sumpthin.

220px-La_Dame_de_Saint-Sernin.jpg


* pardon the off topic excursion L ? .... we'll end up back at Gobekli Tepe .... promise.
The statue is also called "La Dame" which could give you another hint :D

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#89    Paracelse

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Posted 19 February 2011 - 07:11 AM

 Flashbangwollap, on 18 February 2011 - 01:01 PM, said:

Hi Lightly just googled but the name seems to have been added recently or do you have a source for the Menhir photo? I think that's what they call them when found on the Isles around the Med. Perhaps this is a Femehir.;)

http://fr.wikipedia....i/Statue-menhir

Those who would sacrifice freedom for security deserve neither Benjamin Franklin
République No.6
It's time for a sixth republic.

#90    Ove

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Posted 19 February 2011 - 11:02 AM

snip

Edited by Ove, 19 February 2011 - 11:38 AM.





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