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Göbekli Tepe-10 000 BC


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#91    Ove

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Posted 19 February 2011 - 11:37 AM

View PostOniomancer, on 18 February 2011 - 01:10 PM, said:

View PostOve, on 17 February 2011 - 10:34 PM, said:

The priests are the creators of animals, of new life. The purpose of the gatherings inside the stone circles, is the creation of new life, together with the great creators, the stone age priests.
One has the immediate impression that your biology has been sorely neglected.
Long before Göbekli Tepe, the stone age priests increased the number of animals, by drawing animals on cave walls and ceilings. Göbekli Tepe is just a continuation of this belief. In Göbekli Tepe people asked the saints (priests) for help, to increase the number of animals.

It's an even older belief, that everything (not just plants) comes out of the earth. That's way the priests went inside the earth (caves) to create animals.

Posted Image

View Postthe L, on 15 February 2011 - 11:07 PM, said:

Ove nice pics man. God sent you.  Those "hands" are great. Belt buckle is interesting theory. I like theory about two high priests. About Stone cicles in general-there are many cicles around the world. From Amazonia, Europe, Australia and so on. We have two in my homeland Croatia.
I know, ...

Pozdrav !

Edited by Ove, 19 February 2011 - 11:49 AM.


#92    third_eye

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Posted 19 February 2011 - 05:57 PM

Seems that they are still many sites in the Central Asia region from Turkey to Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan that's being lost to history. The discoveries suffers from lack of funding and the political troubles of the region.

mostly material of sites believed to be connected to Gobekli being part of a greater central Asia civilization

Quote

A large sophisticated civilization equal to Sumeria and Mesopotamia and thriving at the same time at least 5,000 years ago was lost in the harsh desert sands of the Soviet Union near the Iran and Afghanistan borders. But now details are beginning to emerge. ... he has some exquisite pottery shards .... from his recent excavations in the Kara Kum desert of Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan on the Iran and Afghanistan borders.

.... discovered ancient ruins at Anau in southern Turkmenistan near Iran. .... working west of Afghanistan reported vast ruins, all built with the same distinct pattern of a central building surrounded by a series of walls. ... were found in Bactria and Margiana on the border that separates Afghanistan from Russia's Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan. But nothing was reported beyond a few Soviet journals that were never translated.

.... discovered it is about 2,000 years older than the Bactria and Margiana sites further to the east, going back nearly seven thousand years to at least 4,500 B. C., or the Bronze Age. Not only are the oldest shards from there of high craftsmanship, .... also found a black rock carved with red-colored symbols that, to date, are unidentified but considered to be evidence of a literacy independent of Mesopotamia. The discovery is revolutionary to earlier academic thought that Sumeria was the first civilization with language.
here

Quote

Gonur-Tappeh was the capital – or imperial city, as he prefers to call it – of a complex, Bronze Age state – one that stretched at least a thousand square miles and encompassing hundreds of satellite settlements.
.... this society was so sophisticated that it should be considered the world’s fifth center of ancient civilization. This would add Murgab River society, officially known as the Bactria-Margiana Archaeological Complex, to a more familiar list of cultural cradles of antiquity.
.... views have gained credence, particularly once his work became more accessible to the world upon the collapse of the Soviet Union.
here
here too

Not as impressive as Gobekli currently but there is till much to be excavated ...

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' ... life and death carry on as they always have ~ and always will, only the dreamer is gone ~ behind the flow of imagination, beyond any effort to be still
dancing in the ebb and flow of attention, more present than the breath, I find the origins of my illusions, only the dreamer is gone ~ the dream never ends
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#93    Flashbangwollap

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Posted 19 February 2011 - 06:16 PM

View Postthird_eye, on 19 February 2011 - 05:57 PM, said:

Seems that they are still many sites in the Central Asia region from Turkey to Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan that's being lost to history. The discoveries suffers from lack of funding and the political troubles of the region.

mostly material of sites believed to be connected to Gobekli being part of a greater central Asia civilization

here


here
here too

Not as impressive as Gobekli currently but there is till much to be excavated ...
OMG. That's a good find third eye. I wonder whether all this desertification is down to man or if there is some other reason?


#94    Ove

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Posted 19 February 2011 - 06:16 PM

View Postthird_eye, on 19 February 2011 - 05:57 PM, said:

Seems that they are still many sites in the Central Asia region from Turkey to Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan that's being lost to history. The discoveries suffers from lack of funding and the political troubles of the region.

mostly material of sites believed to be connected to Gobekli being part of a greater central Asia civilization
Nevali Çori (flooded by dam project) had the same statues as  Göbekli Tepe

Posted ImagePosted Image
Posted Image

Posted ImagePosted Image

One of them even had a V-neck

Edited by Ove, 19 February 2011 - 06:22 PM.


#95    third_eye

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Posted 19 February 2011 - 06:36 PM

View PostFlashbangwollap, on 19 February 2011 - 06:16 PM, said:

OMG. That's a good find third eye. I wonder whether all this desertification is down to man or if there is some other reason?

can't say for sure ... still needs plenty of research to say one way or another :tu:


View PostOve, on 19 February 2011 - 06:16 PM, said:

Nevali Çori (flooded by dam project) had the same statues as  Göbekli Tepe

One of them even had a V-neck

that's a shame too but then again in some cases progress and ancient history can't be both on the same page :(

Edited by third_eye, 19 February 2011 - 06:36 PM.

Quote

' ... life and death carry on as they always have ~ and always will, only the dreamer is gone ~ behind the flow of imagination, beyond any effort to be still
dancing in the ebb and flow of attention, more present than the breath, I find the origins of my illusions, only the dreamer is gone ~ the dream never ends
'

GIFTS WITH NO GIVER - a love affair with truth ~ Poems by Nirmala

third_eye ' s cavern ~ bring own beer


#96    Oniomancer

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Posted 19 February 2011 - 07:23 PM

View PostOve, on 19 February 2011 - 11:37 AM, said:

Long before Göbekli Tepe, the stone age priests increased the number of animals, by drawing animals on cave walls and ceilings. Göbekli Tepe is just a continuation of this belief. In Göbekli Tepe people asked the saints (priests) for help, to increase the number of animals.

It's an even older belief, that everything (not just plants) comes out of the earth. That's way the priests went inside the earth (caves) to create animals.
Sympathetic magic then. One problem.

AFAIK, few of the species depicted on the columns are game species. They're mostly vermin. Why would anyone make more of those? Even if one takes them to be charms against them, we're left once again with the fact that
the animals look like animals, very much so in most cases, and their distribution is consistent with decoration, but the columns significantly don't look like people when they were perfectly capable of making them so.

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#97    third_eye

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Posted 19 February 2011 - 07:55 PM

View PostOniomancer, on 19 February 2011 - 07:23 PM, said:

Sympathetic magic then. One problem.

AFAIK, few of the species depicted on the columns are game species. They're mostly vermin. Why would anyone make more of those? Even if one takes them to be charms against them, we're left once again with the fact that
the animals look like animals, very much so in most cases, and their distribution is consistent with decoration, but the columns significantly don't look like people when they were perfectly capable of making them so.

I see your point,
I've always wondered if the drawings are not unlike the trophies on the walls of the brave "Bwana Big Game Hunters" of today. Sort of like a record of who is he bigger badder hunter of the tribe.

The columns kinda reminds me of the Old Classic Japan China tribal banners,
Something representative of who the powers are and where

Quote

' ... life and death carry on as they always have ~ and always will, only the dreamer is gone ~ behind the flow of imagination, beyond any effort to be still
dancing in the ebb and flow of attention, more present than the breath, I find the origins of my illusions, only the dreamer is gone ~ the dream never ends
'

GIFTS WITH NO GIVER - a love affair with truth ~ Poems by Nirmala

third_eye ' s cavern ~ bring own beer


#98    Ove

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Posted 19 February 2011 - 08:05 PM

Another approach,

There were two main mythological figures at the time, the bird-man and the snake-man.
The bird-man was the connection to the upper-world, the snake-man was the connection to the underworld.

Posted ImagePosted Image
Göbekli Tepe snakes
Posted Image
Posted Image

Posted Image
The snake man (Nevali Çori)

Edited by Ove, 19 February 2011 - 08:12 PM.


#99    third_eye

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Posted 19 February 2011 - 08:11 PM

I thought the older cultures and civilizations regard the serpent as associated with wisdom ?

That is before the biblical versions came and kicked up a fuss.

Interesting note : I just saw the "insect" an ANT perhaps?

the overall design of the ANT does look similar to the Nasca spider doesn't it ?

*edit* ant and spider

Edited by third_eye, 19 February 2011 - 08:13 PM.

Quote

' ... life and death carry on as they always have ~ and always will, only the dreamer is gone ~ behind the flow of imagination, beyond any effort to be still
dancing in the ebb and flow of attention, more present than the breath, I find the origins of my illusions, only the dreamer is gone ~ the dream never ends
'

GIFTS WITH NO GIVER - a love affair with truth ~ Poems by Nirmala

third_eye ' s cavern ~ bring own beer


#100    lightly

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Posted 19 February 2011 - 10:11 PM

View Postjules99, on 19 February 2011 - 07:07 AM, said:

Hi the L;
Did you notice what appears to be a discolouration and a round hollow  directly underneath his genitals. The hollow may have contained ochre or anything really I suppose that could have been smeared over the lucky recipient as part of a fertility rite or ritual. Thanks thats a really clear photo...Ive saved it.
With these stone carvings  maybe tatoos might be drawn in also....the weeble lady looks like she has facial tattoos or whiskers.... unsure
Cheers

     ...  Jules,  pardon me for responding to a question addressed to L ok?   The ochre dispenser is  intriguing ...  I think your onto something...
It seems i was  wrong in thinking of our friend as a priestly figure ... but maybe not so much ?  .. maybe he is more like a fertility saint/priest,  Idol or God.    Maybe you prayed to him for  children and got the ochre/Blood blessing to seal the deal ...   or something along those lines??

Edited by lightly, 19 February 2011 - 10:28 PM.

Important:  The above may contain errors, inaccuracies, omissions, and other limitations.

#101    Abramelin

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Posted 19 February 2011 - 11:09 PM

View PostOve, on 19 February 2011 - 08:05 PM, said:

Another approach,

There were two main mythological figures at the time, the bird-man and the snake-man.
The bird-man was the connection to the upper-world, the snake-man was the connection to the underworld.

Posted ImagePosted Image
Göbekli Tepe snakes
Posted Image
Posted Image

Posted Image
The snake man (Nevali Çori)


"The bird-man was the connection to the upper-world, the snake-man was the connection to the underworld."


You are interpreting 12000 years old symbols.

How can you be so sure??


#102    jules99

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Posted 20 February 2011 - 07:48 AM

View Postlightly, on 19 February 2011 - 10:11 PM, said:

...  Jules,  pardon me for responding to a question addressed to L ok?   The ochre dispenser is  intriguing ...  I think your onto something...
It seems i was  wrong in thinking of our friend as a priestly figure ... but maybe not so much ?  .. maybe he is more like a fertility saint/priest,  Idol or God.    Maybe you prayed to him for  children and got the ochre/Blood blessing to seal the deal ...   or something along those lines??
Yes thats what I had in mind lightly. I regret making the post so abruptly feeling now that it may have derailed the Ls idea which may be equally or more valid. Aside from being a bit low brow, (I was in a primal mindset) it would be hard to know for sure what the mark was without personally looking at the statue or having an informed persons opinion.
Following on though with the fertility idea,  These ancient people probably didnt suffer from the hangups we have today. For them this may have been the norm, and so the figure must have been held in esteem or awe by the people, as either a god, saint or priest. IMHO
Thanks...


#103    jules99

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Posted 20 February 2011 - 10:04 AM

View PostOve, on 19 February 2011 - 08:05 PM, said:

Another approach,

There were two main mythological figures at the time, the bird-man and the snake-man.
The bird-man was the connection to the upper-world, the snake-man was the connection to the underworld.
Posted Image
The snake man (Nevali Çori)
Hi; this may not be related but its a curious similarity
"The sikha or shikha (शिखा śikhā, crest) is a Sanskrit word that refers to a long tuft, or lock of hair left on top or on the back of the shaven head of a male Orthodox Hindu. Though traditionally all Hindus were required to wear a śikhā, today it is seen mainly among Brahmacharya, 'celibate monks' and temple priests.[1]"

http://www.ask.com/wiki/Kudumi

http://www.ancient-w...urkeynevali.htm


#104    SlimJim22

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Posted 20 February 2011 - 10:11 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 19 February 2011 - 11:09 PM, said:

"The bird-man was the connection to the upper-world, the snake-man was the connection to the underworld."


You are interpreting 12000 years old symbols.

How can you be so sure??

At Catal Huyuk there is evidence that vultures in particular were asscoiated with death and the head. We can only speculate that it has any connection to the times before or after but it is a distinct possibility that vultures were used to symbolize the souls flight or something similar.

http://www.ancient-w...ycatalhuyuk.htm

http://www.bibliotec...p_chaman_08.htm

As the occupants of Gobeli tepe were hunter-gatherers they may have revered scavenger animals as much as game animals perhaps. I think this predates priests as we think of them and shamans are a better fit. Shamans perform what seem like strange rituals to us in order to induce trance. For example they may become sexually aroused and then pierce the phallus to enter into a trance state. Could that fit with the points about the red ochre holder at all?

The serpents probablt stem from the trances and visionary quests undertake. Snake like patterns are often experienced when under the effects of hallucionegens so I have heard. Serpents invariably refer to the udnerworld but we are conditioned to misinterpret the ancient beliefs of the underworld imo.

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#105    lightly

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Posted 20 February 2011 - 08:01 PM

View PostSlimJim22, on 20 February 2011 - 10:11 AM, said:

At Catal Huyuk there is evidence that vultures in particular were asscoiated with death and the head. We can only speculate that it has any connection to the times before or after but it is a distinct possibility that vultures were used to symbolize the souls flight or something similar.

Interesting Slim,  It is Very common for vultures  to eat the eyes first ...  transporting the vision of the dearly departed  to the afterlife?   Maybe that's how it was perceived ?    
   Everything must have involved  spirits and magic  to neolithic minds?  Birth required fertility rituals and facilitators/idols ... death and rebirth too required  enablers  ?..   it was religion ?

* .....  Mayan rulers  practiced phallus piercing too.   For blood sacrament .    Piercing and blood letting also from the tongue... the seat of the all powerful spoken word.
   Shamanic intermediary on behalf of the kingdom ?

Edited by lightly, 20 February 2011 - 09:01 PM.

Important:  The above may contain errors, inaccuracies, omissions, and other limitations.




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