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is karma real or a belief?


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#1    psychoticmike

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Posted 02 February 2011 - 06:52 PM

what i mean is, is karma a real phenomenon or does it effect you simply because you believe it exists? i already know the power of the mind, nobody can tell me any different, i know the mind effects psychical objects. I've done many bad things when i was younger, and i feel like I've been paying for it ever since, so my question is, is karma effecting me because i believe in it, and believe it will effect me? if i didn't believe in karma, would it still happen to me, and effect me?


#2    Euphorbia

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Posted 02 February 2011 - 08:08 PM

View Postpsychoticmike, on 02 February 2011 - 06:52 PM, said:

what i mean is, is karma a real phenomenon or does it effect you simply because you believe it exists? i already know the power of the mind, nobody can tell me any different, i know the mind effects psychical objects. I've done many bad things when i was younger, and i feel like I've been paying for it ever since, so my question is, is karma effecting me because i believe in it, and believe it will effect me? if i didn't believe in karma, would it still happen to me, and effect me?

I don't hold any religious views, but Karma is one I would like to believe is real. To me though, Karma is like the belief of 13 being a bad luck number. It's all about association. If you associate the good and the bad things that happen to people to Karma, then it becomes real to you.

I don't think that Karma is affecting  you, but rather you are just thinking of your past wrongdoings and trying to make an association with something that offers some kind of explanation.

Doing "bad things" almost always has negative repercussions and  I believe you would be paying for them with or without a belief in Karma.

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#3    JGirl

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Posted 02 February 2011 - 08:26 PM

View Postpsychoticmike, on 02 February 2011 - 06:52 PM, said:

what i mean is, is karma a real phenomenon or does it effect you simply because you believe it exists? i already know the power of the mind, nobody can tell me any different, i know the mind effects psychical objects. I've done many bad things when i was younger, and i feel like I've been paying for it ever since, so my question is, is karma effecting me because i believe in it, and believe it will effect me? if i didn't believe in karma, would it still happen to me, and effect me?
it's a tough question to answer.
karma can only be deemed real if you can capture some evidence of it happening, and be able to determine that it is the only explanation for whatever occurred.
i believe in karma, but i wouldn't stake my life on whether it was real or not.

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#4    Mentalcase

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Posted 02 February 2011 - 09:28 PM

Good Question Mike,

Although I don't believe a certain religion, I think Karma is a byproduct of being sentient and social. It's obviously more psychological then anything. Deepak Chopra has some interesting concepts, explanations and notions regarding the phenom. I seriously believe in Karma and if anything I would consider my way of life to be more related to Hinduism rather then Christianity. Not that I believe in certain "gods" or anything, just the philosophy of how to live your life and to be successful.

Mike, I think you told me you've read this book before, but you need to reread it, it's worth it, trust me! It's a handy little book that you should always refer back to, if anything. Even this summary would be enough, just to refresh your memory!

Deepak Chopra's 7 Spiritual Laws Of Success...

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There are many aspects to success; material wealth is only one component. Moreover, success is a journey, not a destination. Material abundance, in all its expressions, happens to be one of those things that makes the journey more enjoyable. But success also includes good health, energy and enthusiasm for life, fulfilling relationships, creative freedom, emotional and psychological stability, a sense of well-being and peace of mind. Even with the experience of all these things, we will remain unfulfilled unless we nurture the seeds of divinity inside us. In reality, we are divinity in disguise, and the gods and goddesses in embryo that are contained within us seek to be fully materialized. Although I call the laws I'm about to discuss The Seven Spiritual Laws of Success, they could easily be called The Seven Spiritual Laws of Life. This is because they are the same principles that nature uses to create everything in material existence--everything we can see, hear, smell, taste or touch.

Success in life could be defined as the continued expansion of happiness and the progressive realization of worthy goals. Success is the ability to fulfill your desires with effortless ease. And yet success, including the creation of wealth, has always been considered a process that requires hard work, and it is often considered to be at the expense of others. We need a more spiritual approach to success and to affluence, which is the abundant flow of all good things to you. With the knowledge and practice of spiritual law, we put ourselves in harmony with nature and create with carefreeness, joy and love. True success is the experience of the miraculous. It is the unfolding of the divinity within us. It is the perception of divinity wherever we go, in whatever we perceive--in the eyes of a child, in the beauty of a flower, in the flight of a bird. When we begin to experience our life as the miraculous expression of divinity--not occasionally, but all the time--then we will know the true meaning of success.

Now let's go over The Seven Spiritual Laws of Success and see how we can apply them in our lives.

1) The Law of Pure Potentiality
This law is based on the fact that we are, in our essential state, pure consciousness. Pure consciousness is pure potentiality; it is the field of all possibilities and infinite creativity. When you discover your essential nature and know who you really are, in that knowing itself is the ability to fulfill any dream you have, because you are the eternal possibility, the immeasurable potential of all that was, is and will be. This law could also be called the Law of Unity, because underlying the infinite diversity of life is the unity of one all-pervasive spirit. There is no separation between you and this field of energy. One way to access the field is through the daily practice of silence, meditation and non-judgment. Spending time in nature will also give you access to the qualities inherent in the field: infinite creativity, freedom and bliss.

2) The Law of Giving
This law could also be called the Law of Giving and Receiving, because the universe operates through dynamic exchange. The flow of life is nothing other than the harmonious interaction of all the elements and forces that structure the field of existence. Because your body and your mind and the universe are in constant and dynamic change, stopping the circulation of energy is like stopping the flow of blood. Whenever blood stops flowing, it begins to clot, to stagnate. That is why you must give and receive in order to keep wealth and affluence--or anything you want--circulating in your life. If our only intention is to hold on to our money and hoard it--since it's life energy, we will stop its circulation back into our lives as well. In order to keep that energy coming to us, we have to keep the energy circulating. Thus, the more you give, the more you will receive. The best way to put The Law of Giving into operation is to make a decision that any time you come into contact with anyone, you will give them something. It doesn't have to be in the form of material things; it could be a flower, a compliment or a prayer. In fact, the most powerful forms of giving are non-material. The gifts of caring, attention, affection, appreciation and love are some of the most precious gifts you can give, and they don't cost you anything.

3) The Law of Karma (or Cause and Effect)
"Karma" is both action and the consequence of that action; it is cause and effect simultaneously, because every action generates a force of energy that returns to us in kind. There is nothing unfamiliar about the Law of Karma. Everyone had heard the expression, "What you sow is what you reap." Obviously, if we want to create happiness in our lives, we must learn to sow the seeds of happiness. Therefore, karma implies the action of conscious choice-making. Whether you like it or not, everything that is happening at this moment is a result of the choices you've made in the past. Unfortunately, a lot of us make choices unconsciously, and therefore we don't think they are choices--and yet, they are. If you step back for a moment and witness the choices you are making as you make those choices, then in just this act of witnessing, you take the whole process from the unconscious realm into the conscious realm. This procedure of conscious choice-making and witnessing is very empowering.You can use the Law of Karma to create money and affluence, and the flow of all good things to you, any time you want. But first, you must become consciously aware that your future is generated by the choices you are making in every moment of your life. If you do this on a regular basis, then you are making full use of this law. The more you bring your choices into the level of your conscious awareness, the more you will make those choices which are spontaneously correct--both for you and those around you.

4) The Law of Least Effort
This law is based on the fact that nature's intelligence functions with effortless ease and abandoned carefreeness. This is the principle of least action, of no resistance. This is, therefore, the principle of harmony and love. When we learn this lesson from nature, we easily fulfill our desires. In Vedic Science, the age-old philosophy of India, this principle is known as the principle of economy of effort, or "do less and accomplish more." Ultimately, you come to the state where you do nothing and accomplish everything. This means that there is just a faint idea, and then the manifestation of the idea comes about effortlessly. What is commonly called a "miracle" is actually an expression of the Law of Least Effort. Least effort is expended when your actions are motivated by love, because nature is held together by the energy of love. When you seek power and control over other people, you waste energy. When you seek money or power for the sake of the ego, you spend energy chasing the illusion of happiness instead of enjoying happiness in the moment. When your actions are motivated by love, your energy multiplies and accumulates--and the surplus energy you gather and enjoy can be channeled to create anything that you want, including unlimited wealth. There are three components to the Law of Least Effort--three things you can do to put this principle of "do less and accomplish more" into action. The first component is acceptance. Acceptance simply means that you make a commitment: "Today I will accept people, situations, circumstances and events as they occur." This means I will know that this moment is as it should be, because the whole universe is as it should be. The second component is responsibility. This means not blaming anyone or anything for your situation, including yourself. This allows you the ability to have a creative response to the situation as it is now. All problems contain the seeds of opportunity, and this awareness allows you to take the moment and transform it to a better situation or thing. The third component to the Law of Least Effort is defenselessness. This means that you have relinquished the need to convince or persuade others of your point of view. If you relinquish this need you will in that relinquishment gain access to enormous amounts of energy that have been previously wasted.

5) The Law of Intention and Desire
This law is based on the fact that energy and information exist everywhere in nature. A flower, a rainbow, a tree, a human body, when broken down to their essential components are energy and information. The whole universe, in its essential nature, is the movement of energy and information. The only difference between you and a tree is the informational and energy content of your respective bodies. You can consciously change the energy and informational content of your own quantum mechanical body, and therefore influence the energy and informational content of your extended body--your environment, your world--and cause things to manifest in it. The quality of intention on the object of attention will orchestrate an infinity of space-time events to bring about the outcome intended, provided one follows the other spiritual laws of success. Intention lays the groundwork for the effortless, spontaneous, frictionless flow of pure potentiality. The only caution is that you use your intent for the benefit of mankind.

6) The Law of Detachment
This law says that in order to acquire anything in the physical universe, you have to relinquish your attachment to it. This doesn't mean you give up the intention to create your desire. You give up your attachment to the result. This is a very powerful thing to do. The moment you relinquish your attachment to the result, combining one-pointed intention with detachment at the same time, you will have that which you desire. Anything you want can be acquired through detachment, because detachment is based on the unquestioning belief in the power of your true Self. Attachment comes from poverty consciousness, because attachment is always to symbols. Detachment is synonymous with wealth consciousness, because with detachment there is freedom to create. True wealth consciousness is the ability to have anything you want, anytime you want, and with least effort. To be grounded in this experience you have to be grounded in the wisdom of uncertainty. In this uncertainty you will find the freedom to create anything you want.

7) The Law of "Dharma" or Purpose in Life
The seventh spiritual law of success is the Law of Dharma. (Dharma is a Sanskrit word that means "purpose in life.") This law says that we have taken manifestation in physical form to fulfill a purpose. You have a unique talent and a unique way of expressing it. There is something that you can do better than anyone else in the whole world--and for every unique talent and unique expression of that talent, there are also unique needs. When these needs are matched with the creative expression of your talent, that is the spark that creates affluence. Expressing your talents to fulfill needs creates unlimited wealth and abundance. There are three components to the Law of Dharma. The first says that each of us is here to discover our true Self. The second component is to express our unique talents; the expression of that talent takes you into timeless awareness. The third component is service to humanity. When you combine the ability to express your unique talent with service to humanity, then you make full use of the Law of Dharma. The Seven Spiritual Laws of Success are powerful principles that will enable you to attain self-mastery. If you put your attention on these laws and practice the steps outlined above, you will see that you can manifest anything you want--all the affluence, money and success you desire. You will also see that your life becomes more joyful and abundant in every way, for these laws are also the spiritual laws of life that make living worthwhile.
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Hope this helps. As far as Karma being proven, that's a whole other issue. You can only believe it if it effects you enough. So, I guess you could say that it's a matter of opinion. When it comes to anything psychological, it's more intuitive then literal.

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#5    Trog

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Posted 02 February 2011 - 10:09 PM

Philosophy doesn't call it Karma , but it does explain that if we cause distress to others we incur a Debt to be paid off , so it's much the same thing , Hinduism and Buddhism call it Karma and Philosophy calls it a Debt .... However , if we go through life only doing good deeds then we build up Credit and that helps smooth our way .

This debt clearly shows up in our Numerological Chart , it would appear that we can postpone payment of our debt from one incarnation to the next , however , by so doing we may end up with more debt to pay off  because it would be almost impossible to go through life with out treading on some ones toes , so any postponement would  mean a likely build up of debt and that build up could make ones life a very difficult experience .

Some people experience their debt almost immediately while others experience all their debt in one lifetime .... How this works I can't explain , may be it was an agreement they entered into before reincarnation ?

So yes I do believe that if we cause harm to others in any way we will eventually be asked to make amends .

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#6    The Silver Thong

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Posted 02 February 2011 - 10:44 PM

Very bad things happen to very good people. How does karma work into that. I personally don't think karma is any more real then having a lucky rabbit's foot or a black cat crossing ones path.

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#7    Elijah17

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 07:00 AM

I've done bad things to which no repercussions ever arose, and I've done good things only to have bad happen to me. The only things I can come close to believing in are those that I see/learn myself. I'm an imperical person. If proof, or a relatively close approximation, of something can be seen than I'll likely believe it, and I haven't seen any proof of karma, either in my life or others' that I know.


#8    d e v i c e

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 08:08 AM

I see Karma as real, in the same way that the law of cause and effect is real. If I wish to increase my chances for happiness and the happiness of others, it would be best to do good things. But if I wish to increase my chances at unhappiness and make others unhappy, then simply do bad things. Bad things happen to good people, that cant be helped, but the kind actions of others may help them get through those bad times and alleviate their suffering a little bit. Good things happen to bad people, but its the good actions of people that keep this world from going completely insane.
Im not religeous at all, thats just my general observation, although the Buddhist view has influenced me to see Karma in that way. Karma. Cause and effect.  ;)

Edited by Evilution13, 03 February 2011 - 08:29 AM.




#9    The Silver Thong

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 05:14 PM

Karma is nothing more then a desire to have the ones who have wronged you suffer in some sort of manner. So really, believing or wishing for karma is in itself attracting some sort of karma back on oneself.

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#10    Emma_Acid

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Posted 05 February 2011 - 03:46 AM

View PostMentalcase, on 02 February 2011 - 09:28 PM, said:

Deepak Chopra's 7 Spiritual Laws Of Success...

Quote

You can consciously change the energy and informational content of your own quantum mechanical body, and therefore influence the energy and informational content of your extended body--your environment, your world--and cause things to manifest in it.

Sorry, he's full of s***.

Edit. Sorry, that wasn't very helpful. Basically he's using the logical fallacy of resorting to quantum physics, and hoping people don't have the faculties to question it.

In summery, he's full of s***

Edited by Emma_Acid, 05 February 2011 - 04:14 AM.

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#11    Soul Kitchen

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Posted 05 February 2011 - 05:04 AM

View Postpsychoticmike, on 02 February 2011 - 06:52 PM, said:

what i mean is, is karma a real phenomenon or does it effect you simply because you believe it exists? i already know the power of the mind, nobody can tell me any different, i know the mind effects psychical objects. I've done many bad things when i was younger, and i feel like I've been paying for it ever since, so my question is, is karma effecting me because i believe in it, and believe it will effect me? if i didn't believe in karma, would it still happen to me, and effect me?

It's really difficult to say, as many believe that karma passes on into your next life.
I am open to the idea, because I get that feeling of karma a lot. Things always seem to balance out based on my deeds each day.

Life is too short to waste on responsibilities. :)

#12    Mentalcase

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Posted 05 February 2011 - 05:09 AM

Emma,

I think you may be reading into it too much!

It's not to be taken literal, that part at least. It's more of a mind over matter thing. Like, once you change the negative aspects of your life, you will feel it physically.

Besides, this book has personally helped me keep focus on what's important in life. Plus, I have a circle of friends who turned me on to it, it seems to help them as well. Some of what he teaches may seem speculative to some, but it's the essence of what the message is that helps. Also, it didn't say quantum physics, it said quantum mechanical body. It's certainly a Hinduism reference. Philosophy can't be explained by math or physics, hence the metaphysical.

Edited by Mentalcase, 05 February 2011 - 05:11 AM.

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#13    Paxus

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Posted 06 February 2011 - 02:33 AM

I think of Karma as a real law just as Evilution13 described it, above.
I believe it is a universal law of cause and effect.
People are often disturbed by seeing bad people happy and not suffering any consequences of their misdeeds but I believe they will have to pay in the long run.
Of course, it's easier to believe in Karma when you also believe in reincarnation, because, I can always fallback to the explination that if someone hasn't been punished or rewarded (so to speak), then they will be in their next life...

Edited by Paxus, 06 February 2011 - 02:34 AM.


#14    psychoticmike

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Posted 06 February 2011 - 06:06 AM

View PostPaxus, on 06 February 2011 - 02:33 AM, said:

I think of Karma as a real law just as Evilution13 described it, above.
I believe it is a universal law of cause and effect.
People are often disturbed by seeing bad people happy and not suffering any consequences of their misdeeds but I believe they will have to pay in the long run.
Of course, it's easier to believe in Karma when you also believe in reincarnation, because, I can always fallback to the explination that if someone hasn't been punished or rewarded (so to speak), then they will be in their next life...


thanks for your input pax! i believe in karma because of what i have been through, and what i have done, sure i have gotten away with a lot of things and at the time was happy and for a while enjoyed myself and everything was going my way, but then i hit a period of my life where it really seemed like it all came back to haunt me. For a while, every positive change i attempted to make in my life, always ended in complete failure. I think karma is real, and that your deeds do not go unpunished, but it affects you in different ways in the future.


#15    psychoticmike

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Posted 06 February 2011 - 06:07 AM

View PostEuphorbia, on 02 February 2011 - 08:08 PM, said:

I don't hold any religious views, but Karma is one I would like to believe is real. To me though, Karma is like the belief of 13 being a bad luck number. It's all about association. If you associate the good and the bad things that happen to people to Karma, then it becomes real to you.

I don't think that Karma is affecting  you, but rather you are just thinking of your past wrongdoings and trying to make an association with something that offers some kind of explanation.

Doing "bad things" almost always has negative repercussions and  I believe you would be paying for them with or without a belief in Karma.


thanks thats an interesting perspective.





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