133 replies to this topic

[Athans]

We better get back on topic...if you have more to say, PM me. I will do the same.

[mklsgl]

GIDEON MAGE, on 16 March 2011 - 02:13 PM, said:

GEE, BACK ON TOPIC?  Does anyone here know that Orthodox Jews believe that a baby is a part of a woman's body until it is born?  You will not see them protesting against abortion clinics.  Abortion is legal in Israel?

I do.

[mklsgl]

Setton, on 16 March 2011 - 12:01 PM, said:

Just because Ph.Ds can't answer something, doesn't mean no-on2 else can. There are very intelligent people in the world who never completed any formal study but can have vast knowledge from their own interest. Also, it often takes a fresh look at things, not clouded by the opinions taught by others, to work something out.

As a Ph.D. (Literary and Cultural Studies, UPenn), I can say that I learn just as much from my students as they learn from me.

[Sherapy]

mklsgl, on 16 March 2011 - 06:09 PM, said:

I do.

I personally would  not choose abortion for myself, yet I fully support and stand for pro choice.

[mklsgl]

At heart, the question remains "When does life begin?" and there is no single, absolute answer. (Yes, I made a 'no-duh' post but it seems to be one the most complicated questions ever asked.)

[GIDEON MAGE]

mklsgl, on 16 March 2011 - 06:30 PM, said:

At heart, the question remains "When does life begin?" and there is no single, absolute answer. (Yes, I made a 'no-duh' post but it seems to be one the most complicated questions ever asked.)

Life begins when the Xians stop persecuting the rest of us.

[Beckys_Mom]

GIDEON MAGE, on 16 March 2011 - 07:25 PM, said:

Life begins when the Xians stop persecuting the rest of us.

I dealt with that easy - I moved out   lol

[Sherapy]

mklsgl, on 16 March 2011 - 06:30 PM, said:

At heart, the question remains "When does life begin?" and there is no single, absolute answer. (Yes, I made a 'no-duh' post but it seems to be one the most complicated questions ever asked.)

This is a great point, and it will be different for everyone.

I go with Science at this point in defining my line and I think Roe V Wade is  very well articulated  and considers the  important  factors for me,  in such a decision.

Edited by Sherapy, 16 March 2011 - 08:47 PM.

[Sherapy]

mklsgl, on 16 March 2011 - 06:12 PM, said:

As a Ph.D. (Literary and Cultural Studies, UPenn), I can say that I learn just as much from my students as they learn from me.

I am living proof of what one can accomplish without  a degree. I began a journey for  my son which lead me to  volunteering as a learning coach for a public charter funded by my state,  with countless resources,  including many friends that are teachers.The school I am with has afforded me the opportunity to gain in experience and knowledge, a skill that I now get payed for.

I have worked hard though and have had to learn a lot on my own and many times I have taken courses and  will continue to do so. It is not magic by any means.


Quite  frankly a beloved PHD friend of mine once told me  some of the  sharpest people  he knew didn't have college degrees.

Recently a doctor client  of mine told me there are  2 skills that can never be overvalued enough ,one is teaching  and one is being a life long learner. They  are marketable in some way.  



But,  I am not a teacher  and do not market myself as one,  the reality is my State  has made changes in education  that are  opening doors for payed tutors. I only make 20.00 dollars  an hour,  not nearly what a teacher  would  make, but whose  complaining . ...    

@Setton, keep on having your debates and you are correct there are intelligent folks who didn't go to college and there always will be.

[Paranoid Android]

Athans, on 16 March 2011 - 03:13 PM, said:

I said in the post that if you were just trying to be nice, I apologize…

I tried to be respectful as much as I could.

Hopefully that's clarified then

Athans, on 16 March 2011 - 03:13 PM, said:

If I suggested this in any of my classes or papers I would fail if I did not provide sources and I would especially be laughed out of class if it happened to be wrong. If I had a reliable source to at least back up what I said, that is a whole nother story.

The reason I got annoyed is your link did not add to the debate. We were talking about a single verse, not the book of Leviticus. If you simply put a link in there asking others to read for another opinion, fine, but you targeted it towards ME. You made me feel as if I was somehow missing something in the argument. I did not get the impression that you were trying to educate the public reading the board. Maybe next time try addressing the public, because as you stated, this is a public message board.  Once again, with all due respect, you are a Moderator. Correct me if I am wrong but isn’t your job to get the topics back on track? It seemed to me that you were just trying to open up a whole new can of worms instead of trying to get the topic back on the original topic.

As I said, we are not in any of your classes or writing any of your papers.  I understand that you may not be used to the level of learning required to post here, but this place isn't for the intellectual elite who need Tertiary education before their comments are considered valid.

And yes, my comment was off topic, and I have apologised for it.  Threads can often have a life of their own, and a well-placed post or two can shoot it in entirely new directions - "Someone I know hates gays"... "the Bible says nothing about gays".... "What about Leviticus".... And suddenly we're arguing about the merits of the Old Testament in application of the idea of homosexuality.  

Athans, on 16 March 2011 - 03:13 PM, said:

Also, I find it very unlikely that a random reader would read a post more than 4 or so pages long. Even if it is a topic I am interested in, it is very unlikely that I would read more than 4 or 5 pages.

That is their choice to decide whether they read a post or not, and if a long post

Athans, on 16 March 2011 - 03:13 PM, said:

How am I supposed to know if you are a Google scholar or if you have real sources with a statement like “many theologians will agree with me.” Not everyone is a Google scholar, but how do you tell the difference?
I appreciate the sources. It shows some scholarly research…but it also shows your views.

I never claimed to be other than a Christian who identifies strongly with the Conservative Evangelical movement.  As to the google scholar, you could always simply ask - "hey Seepgood, where did you get the information from"?

Athans, on 16 March 2011 - 03:13 PM, said:

They are followed by the Mormons. I do not have the specific article which talks about this on my computer, but if you are interested I can email Dr. Osburn for it

That would be great     

Athans, on 16 March 2011 - 03:13 PM, said:

I have personally asked about the word abomination a number of times. All 3 people I asked cringed before answering and said “it’s complicated.” 2 of these 3 people teach advanced Hebrew at a University. If this is such common knowledge can you explain why they don’t just have an answer?

I can't answer that.  I have seen this in many places over the years, and I have not really seen a counter to the idea that the term to-ebah (translated into English as "abomination") is not a reference to idol worship.  I'm sure it is more complicated than my single response may indicate.  The response I have seen simply seems to be the general consensus that I have come across.

Thanks for reading.  As I said, I apologise for dragging this off topic (moderators are human beings too).

[Paranoid Android]

mklsgl, on 16 March 2011 - 06:30 PM, said:

At heart, the question remains "When does life begin?" and there is no single, absolute answer. (Yes, I made a 'no-duh' post but it seems to be one the most complicated questions ever asked.)

GIDEON MAGE, on 16 March 2011 - 07:25 PM, said:

Life begins when the Xians stop persecuting the rest of us.

Hi Gid,

Mind clarifying what you mean by this?

[GIDEON MAGE]

Guybrush Threepwood, on 17 March 2011 - 02:35 PM, said:

Hi Gid,

Mind clarifying what you mean by this?

Don't you think 1700 years of pogroms, witch burnings, genocide and the Inquisition are more than enough?  I don't think that the same religion that perpetrated all this should dare to try to control our bodies (women in particular).

[Athans]

Guybrush Threepwood, on 17 March 2011 - 02:33 PM, said:

That would be great     

Ok I will try and get the article or book from him. It might be a week or 2 though (It's spring break.)

[Paranoid Android]

GIDEON MAGE, on 17 March 2011 - 03:52 PM, said:

Don't you think 1700 years of pogroms, witch burnings, genocide and the Inquisition are more than enough?  I don't think that the same religion that perpetrated all this should dare to try to control our bodies (women in particular).

And how does this relate to mklsgl's question - "when does life begin".  In the context of a baby in the womb - is a baby a "life" at the moment of conception, or at twenty weeks, or when it's finally out of the womb, or some other date we can set between conception and birth.  Your answer about life beginning when Christians stop persecution has nothing to do with the question on life in the womb.