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An example of law based on religion


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#31    Beckys_Mom

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Posted 09 March 2011 - 09:47 PM

View Posteqgumby, on 09 March 2011 - 09:43 PM, said:

Let's cut through the bull...
Abortion at 21 weeks, is no crueler than dying outside the womb as 22 weeks.

As It happened to me recently..I can safely say.. having to see my little ones face.. it is jammed into my mind and that made my pain a lot worse

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#32    Beckys_Mom

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Posted 09 March 2011 - 09:49 PM

View PostSetton, on 09 March 2011 - 09:45 PM, said:

Of course he's entitled to them. He just shouldn't make things up to support them and relay them to others knowing they are false.


Look if you feel Darkwind has - made things up- then sort it out with him.. personally I dont think he made anything up.. but seriously please for the love of dunkin donuts sort it out with Darkwind... I am sure he will tell you all

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#33    Mr Walker

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Posted 09 March 2011 - 10:56 PM

View PostGIDEON MAGE, on 09 March 2011 - 01:34 PM, said:

Name a single atheist who has bombed an abortion clinic!
DUH! Really what has that to do with the point i made? It is an emotive argument. A point which is  only highlighted by the use of colour and large font.
Hitler? :devil:
Stalin? :innocent:
Many athiest leaders banned and punished abortions on practical reasons related to power and prejudice.
Until the 1970s abortions were illegal pretty well anywhere in the world, under both religious and athiestic regimes and democracies.
China may have been one exception. I am not sure when they began their policy of state sanctioned /enforced abortions to limit population growth. But in the entire western world only two countries are maintaining replacement fertility. So abortion as population control is no longer a responsible policy for the west. For most of human history abortions have been difficult and dangerous; but more than this, for most of human history, woman's fertility has not been under their control, or seen as their right to control.

That is connected both to the role of women in past societies, but also the horrendous death rates of women and children in childbirth and early infancy. In the past, abortion was very much against the interests of most families, societies and nations . One of the main aims of all of these was to maximise populations and maintain population growth. This cycle is coming around again as world  fertility drops, and many countries face rapidly declining  and aging populations. Its not at all just about religious beliefs.

Edited by Mr Walker, 09 March 2011 - 11:09 PM.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#34    Fluffybunny

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Posted 09 March 2011 - 11:43 PM

View PostBeckys_Mom, on 09 March 2011 - 09:47 PM, said:

As It happened to me recently..I can safely say.. having to see my little ones face.. it is jammed into my mind and that made my pain a lot worse
I am so sorry to hear that. It is a nightmarish event; my wife and I had a similar event, it was a spontaneous abortion and because the ER was so backed up my wife and I were left alone and suddenly the baby started to come out, so I ended up delivering the baby, but it was already too late. The image of that little body still haunts and saddens me. What a nightmare.

Too many people on both sides of the spectrum have fallen into this mentality that a full one half of the country are the enemy for having different beliefs...in a country based on freedom of expression. It is this infighting that allows the focus to be taken away from "we the people" being able to watch, and have control over government corruption and ineptitude that is running rampant in our leadership.

People should be working towards fixing problems, not creating them.

#35    Beckys_Mom

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Posted 09 March 2011 - 11:50 PM

View PostFluffybunny, on 09 March 2011 - 11:43 PM, said:

I am so sorry to hear that. It is a nightmarish event; my wife and I had a similar event, it was a spontaneous abortion and because the ER was so backed up my wife and I were left alone and suddenly the baby started to come out, so I ended up delivering the baby, but it was already too late. The image of that little body still haunts and saddens me. What a nightmare.
I know how you feel...that image will never leave you or your poor wife...  I sometimes now still see my little girls face..and yea I cry...but  sigh...it was disturbing..I couldnt allow my husband to watch... he got upset I didnt call him when it was going on...but I just couldnt allow him to witness that....I still sometimes wish it was all a bad dream..  It hurt more having to tell an over excited little 5 yr old that there is no more little sister... to think she used to talk away to my big bump...making her wee plans.... that was freaking hard...

I guess we do not understand how bad it really feels until we experience it...  My daughter was cremated in Dec 2010

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#36    Sherapy

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Posted 09 March 2011 - 11:58 PM

View PostFluffybunny, on 09 March 2011 - 11:43 PM, said:

I am so sorry to hear that. It is a nightmarish event; my wife and I had a similar event, it was a spontaneous abortion and because the ER was so backed up my wife and I were left alone and suddenly the baby started to come out, so I ended up delivering the baby, but it was already too late. The image of that little body still haunts and saddens me. What a nightmare.

Geez FB, you have sure had your share of sad things.I am so sorry to hear this  happened to you and your wife..  :cry:

View PostBeckys_Mom, on 09 March 2011 - 11:50 PM, said:

I know how you feel...that image will never leave you or your poor wife...  I sometimes now still see my little girls face..and yea I cry...but  sigh...it was disturbing..I couldnt allow my husband to watch... he got upset I didnt call him when it was going on...but I just couldnt allow him to witness that....I still sometimes wish it was all a bad dream..  It hurt more having to tell an over excited little 5 yr old that there is no more little sister... to think she used to talk away to my big bump...making her wee plans.... that was freaking hard...

I guess we do not understand how bad it really feels until we experience it...  My daughter was cremated in Dec 2010

Gosh  :cry:  :cry: :cry:


#37    Beckys_Mom

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Posted 10 March 2011 - 12:05 AM

View PostSherapy, on 09 March 2011 - 11:58 PM, said:

Geez FB, you have sure had your share of sad things.I am so sorry to hear this  happened to you and your wife..  :cry:



Gosh  :cry:  :cry: :cry:


Tis ok sis... I guessthese things happen even to the best of us.....

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#38    Setton

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Posted 10 March 2011 - 12:32 AM

View PostBeckys_Mom, on 09 March 2011 - 09:49 PM, said:

Look if you feel Darkwind has - made things up- then sort it out with him.. personally I dont think he made anything up.. but seriously please for the love of dunkin donuts sort it out with Darkwind... I am sure he will tell you all

Fair enough. To be honest, I was kind of hoping he'd answer in this thread. No luck there so I'll try a PM instead. Thanks for the advice. Not really sure how I got dragged into an argument with you when I've nothing against you but there we go.

'Good' is not the same as 'nice'.
'No, murder is running your broadsword through someone because he worships a different God to you... Or is that evangelism? I get confused.'
When they discover the centre of the universe, a lot of people are going to be disappointed - They are not it.
I don't object to the concept of a deity but I'm baffled by the notion of one that takes attendance.

#39    FlyingAngel

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Posted 10 March 2011 - 01:58 AM

dying by nature is still better than dying by the hands of humans.

actually, it's the pain of the loss that teach you how to cherish life


#40    Beckys_Mom

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Posted 10 March 2011 - 02:40 AM

View PostFlyingAngel, on 10 March 2011 - 01:58 AM, said:

dying by nature is still better than dying by the hands of humans.

actually, it's the pain of the loss that teach you how to cherish life
That doesnt exactly make me feel any better about my own loss......

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#41    Setton

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Posted 10 March 2011 - 10:47 AM

View PostFlyingAngel, on 10 March 2011 - 01:58 AM, said:

dying by nature is still better than dying by the hands of humans.

Sorry but how do you come to that conclusion? If dying by nature means unbearable pain and dying at the hands of humans means a quick and painless death, how is nature better?

'Good' is not the same as 'nice'.
'No, murder is running your broadsword through someone because he worships a different God to you... Or is that evangelism? I get confused.'
When they discover the centre of the universe, a lot of people are going to be disappointed - They are not it.
I don't object to the concept of a deity but I'm baffled by the notion of one that takes attendance.

#42    FlyingAngel

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Posted 10 March 2011 - 01:00 PM

View PostBeckys_Mom, on 10 March 2011 - 02:40 AM, said:

That doesnt exactly make me feel any better about my own loss......
No it doesn't, but it will teach you how to cherish life and love everyone around you, it will let you know how it is like to kill a baby.
Normally, those who abort are those who got unwanted child due to lack of knowledge (non safe sex, etc...). Take the responsible and face the consequence. It's not the baby's fault. Don't abuse the reproduction system. It's also the falt of the society/family for not capable of welcoming a new life.

View PostSetton, on 10 March 2011 - 10:47 AM, said:

Sorry but how do you come to that conclusion? If dying by nature means unbearable pain and dying at the hands of humans means a quick and painless death, how is nature better?
Baby is still at the stage of animal ie all the primordial instinct will overtake it. The survival instinct will tell it to fight and struggle to live instead of accepting death.

Those who accept a fast, painless death are usually those who gave up on life or has nothing more to learn in life. Lots of people who got cancer accept to live with the pain instead of shoot themself instantly die for the same reason.


#43    FlyingAngel

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Posted 10 March 2011 - 01:00 PM

View PostBeckys_Mom, on 10 March 2011 - 02:40 AM, said:

That doesnt exactly make me feel any better about my own loss......
No it doesn't, but it will teach you how to cherish life and love everyone around you, it will let you know how it is like to kill a baby.
Normally, those who abort are those who got unwanted child due to lack of knowledge (non safe sex, etc...). Take the responsible and face the consequence. It's not the baby's fault. Don't abuse the reproduction system. It's also the falt of the society/family for not capable of welcoming a new life.

View PostSetton, on 10 March 2011 - 10:47 AM, said:

Sorry but how do you come to that conclusion? If dying by nature means unbearable pain and dying at the hands of humans means a quick and painless death, how is nature better?
Baby is still at the stage of animal ie all the primordial instinct will overtake it. The survival instinct will tell it to fight and struggle to live instead of accepting death.

Those who accept a fast, painless death are usually those who gave up on life or has nothing more to learn in life. Lots of people who got cancer accept to live with the pain instead of shoot themself instantly die for the same reason.


#44    Beckys_Mom

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Posted 10 March 2011 - 01:11 PM

View PostFlyingAngel, on 10 March 2011 - 01:00 PM, said:

No it doesn't, but it will teach you how to cherish life and love everyone around you, it will let you know how it is like to kill a baby.
I already had a lot of love for my own family long before this ever happened.. and and let me know how it is like to kill a baby??? what??

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#45    Rlyeh

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Posted 10 March 2011 - 02:29 PM

View PostFlyingAngel, on 10 March 2011 - 01:58 AM, said:

dying by nature is still better than dying by the hands of humans.

actually, it's the pain of the loss that teach you how to cherish life
Wasting way from cancer is better than euthanasia? Wow.





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