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What is the weight of the human soul ?


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#1    UM-Bot

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Posted 25 April 2011 - 09:58 AM

<strong class='bbc'>Image credit: Wikipedia</strong>
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Jay Alfred: The idea of a material soul is not new. The Greek philosopher, Heraclitus, who lived in the sixth century BC, thought that the soul was composed of an unusually fine or rare kind of matter, such as air or fire. However, if it was material it had to have some weight. Barbara Brennan, former NASA engineer and now world-renowned energy healer, observes that ‘aura’ appears to have weight. Robert Monroe also believes that the ‘Second Body’ has weight, although much less than the carbon-based body. (The terms ‘aura’, ‘astral body’ and the ‘Second Body’ refer to what is generally described as the ‘subtle body’ in the metaphysical literature. The subtle body has often been loosely identified as the ‘soul’.)

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#2    libstaK

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Posted 25 April 2011 - 01:39 PM

View PostUM-Bot, on 25 April 2011 - 09:58 AM, said:

<strong class='bbc'>Image credit: Wikipedia</strong>
Image credit: Wikipedia
Jay Alfred: The idea of a material soul is not new. The Greek philosopher, Heraclitus, who lived in the sixth century BC, thought that the soul was composed of an unusually fine or rare kind of matter, such as air or fire. However, if it was material it had to have some weight. Barbara Brennan, former NASA engineer and now world-renowned energy healer, observes that ‘aura’ appears to have weight. Robert Monroe also believes that the ‘Second Body’ has weight, although much less than the carbon-based body. (The terms ‘aura’, ‘astral body’ and the ‘Second Body’ refer to what is generally described as the ‘subtle body’ in the metaphysical literature. The subtle body has often been loosely identified as the ‘soul’.)

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Great article.  It begs a question which will
a) Open a can of worms
B) Solve a crucial issue in modern society

- As distasteful as this sounds these experiments could be repeated on aborted foetuses at various stages before and after they expire. (I am not suggesting aborting for the purpose of the experiment of course, but collecting data from the abortions currently taking place anyway).

I am not specifically for or against abortion but that is because I don't pretend to know the facts.  This would do alot to shed some light on a highly sensitive subject for all concerned.

I do intrinsically hold life as sacred though and I think if we are willing to spend billions on a Hadron Collider to find a particle, we should consider the value of spending a decent effort and funds on finding out the truth about conception and at what point a foetus becomes a conscious being or a life, it would just change everything and allow for more informed decisions by everyone in a super sensitive field.

Edited by libstaK, 25 April 2011 - 01:53 PM.

"I warn you, whoever you are, oh you who wish to probe the arcanes of nature, if you do not find within yourself that which you seek, neither shall you find it outside.
If you ignore the excellencies of your own house, how do you intend to find other excellencies?
In you is hidden the treasure of treasures, Oh man, know thyself and you shall know the Universe and the Gods."

Inscription - Temple of Delphi

#3    Soul Kitchen

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Posted 25 April 2011 - 11:43 PM

View PostlibstaK, on 25 April 2011 - 01:39 PM, said:

Great article.  It begs a question which will
a) Open a can of worms
B) Solve a crucial issue in modern society

- As distasteful as this sounds these experiments could be repeated on aborted foetuses at various stages before and after they expire. (I am not suggesting aborting for the purpose of the experiment of course, but collecting data from the abortions currently taking place anyway).

I am not specifically for or against abortion but that is because I don't pretend to know the facts.  This would do alot to shed some light on a highly sensitive subject for all concerned.

I do intrinsically hold life as sacred though and I think if we are willing to spend billions on a Hadron Collider to find a particle, we should consider the value of spending a decent effort and funds on finding out the truth about conception and at what point a foetus becomes a conscious being or a life, it would just change everything and allow for more informed decisions by everyone in a super sensitive field.
Why can't they just weigh the pregnant mother before/after the abortion and subtract the weight of the fetus from the original weight?

Anyways, I've heard of this before. It seems strange that the soul would have a physical weight but this could have interesting implications.

Life is too short to waste on responsibilities. :)

#4    Tiggs

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Posted 26 April 2011 - 12:00 AM

If the soul has weight, then it's material.

Might want to think about that for a while.


#5    danielost

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Posted 26 April 2011 - 12:13 AM

i would think the soul as a form of energy(living energy), thus to measure it you would use volume.

Edited by danielost, 26 April 2011 - 12:14 AM.

I am a Mormon.  If I don't use Mormons believe, those my beliefs only.
I do not go to church haven't for thirty years.
There are other Mormons on this site. So if I have misspoken about the beliefs. I welcome their input.
I am not perfect and never will be. I do strive to be true to myself. I do my best to stay true to the Mormon faith. Thanks for caring and if you don't peace be with you.

#6    Soul Kitchen

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Posted 26 April 2011 - 04:16 AM

View PostTiggs, on 26 April 2011 - 12:00 AM, said:

If the soul has weight, then it's material.

Might want to think about that for a while.
There could be more to it than that.
Perhaps the soul is immaterial, but the way it manifests itself in a physical vessel creates a certain something to/throughout the body.

Or you could think about it in the way of this analogy:
A human teenager is not a piece of virtual data, yet plays a character that represents himself in a video game. A character that is a piece of virtual data.

Life is too short to waste on responsibilities. :)

#7    danielost

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Posted 26 April 2011 - 04:52 AM

View PostThesantanafan, on 26 April 2011 - 04:16 AM, said:

There could be more to it than that.
Perhaps the soul is immaterial, but the way it manifests itself in a physical vessel creates a certain something to/throughout the body.

Or you could think about it in the way of this analogy:
A human teenager is not a piece of virtual data, yet plays a character that represents himself in a video game. A character that is a piece of virtual data.
we could be virtual data, if we were how could we tell.

also would it matter if we were.

Edited by danielost, 26 April 2011 - 04:53 AM.

I am a Mormon.  If I don't use Mormons believe, those my beliefs only.
I do not go to church haven't for thirty years.
There are other Mormons on this site. So if I have misspoken about the beliefs. I welcome their input.
I am not perfect and never will be. I do strive to be true to myself. I do my best to stay true to the Mormon faith. Thanks for caring and if you don't peace be with you.

#8    libstaK

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Posted 26 April 2011 - 09:32 AM

View Postdanielost, on 26 April 2011 - 12:13 AM, said:

i would think the soul as a form of energy(living energy), thus to measure it you would use volume.

The basis of the experiments in the article are that the soul has mass

Quote: "If the soul has weight, it means it has mass and is subject to Earth's gravitational force."

Also: "The weight of the soul, based on the average loss of mass in six patients, was measured by McDougall to be 21grams".

Also: "The challenge before us now is to figure out exactly what the mass of the soul is composed of ... we are inclined to believe it is a form of energy.  But our attempt to identify this energy have been unsuccessful to date".

Read the article again towards the last 2 paragraphs where it postulates a "dark plasma theory".

cheers

"I warn you, whoever you are, oh you who wish to probe the arcanes of nature, if you do not find within yourself that which you seek, neither shall you find it outside.
If you ignore the excellencies of your own house, how do you intend to find other excellencies?
In you is hidden the treasure of treasures, Oh man, know thyself and you shall know the Universe and the Gods."

Inscription - Temple of Delphi

#9    libstaK

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Posted 26 April 2011 - 09:37 AM

View Postdanielost, on 26 April 2011 - 04:52 AM, said:

we could be virtual data, if we were how could we tell.

also would it matter if we were.

LOL.  Wake up Neo.  The Matrix has you   :devil:

"I warn you, whoever you are, oh you who wish to probe the arcanes of nature, if you do not find within yourself that which you seek, neither shall you find it outside.
If you ignore the excellencies of your own house, how do you intend to find other excellencies?
In you is hidden the treasure of treasures, Oh man, know thyself and you shall know the Universe and the Gods."

Inscription - Temple of Delphi

#10    Tiggs

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Posted 26 April 2011 - 10:59 AM

View Postdanielost, on 26 April 2011 - 12:13 AM, said:

i would think the soul as a form of energy(living energy), thus to measure it you would use volume.
Volume?

As in Mass / Density = Volume?


#11    Tiggs

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Posted 26 April 2011 - 11:09 AM

View PostThesantanafan, on 26 April 2011 - 04:16 AM, said:

There could be more to it than that.
Perhaps the soul is immaterial, but the way it manifests itself in a physical vessel creates a certain something to/throughout the body.
Which immediately ceases to be at the moment of Death?

My money, to be honest, if they really have ruled out the air in the lungs (though goodness knows how), is on the metabolism still converting food into energy.

Quote

Or you could think about it in the way of this analogy:
A human teenager is not a piece of virtual data, yet plays a character that represents himself in a video game. A character that is a piece of virtual data.
Information doesn't have mass.


#12    danielost

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Posted 26 April 2011 - 02:45 PM

View PostTiggs, on 26 April 2011 - 10:59 AM, said:

Volume?

As in Mass / Density = Volume?
as in volume of a gas.  a volume of gas has wieght.

Edited by danielost, 26 April 2011 - 02:57 PM.

I am a Mormon.  If I don't use Mormons believe, those my beliefs only.
I do not go to church haven't for thirty years.
There are other Mormons on this site. So if I have misspoken about the beliefs. I welcome their input.
I am not perfect and never will be. I do strive to be true to myself. I do my best to stay true to the Mormon faith. Thanks for caring and if you don't peace be with you.

#13    danielost

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Posted 26 April 2011 - 02:46 PM

View PostTiggs, on 26 April 2011 - 11:09 AM, said:

Which immediately ceases to be at the moment of Death?

My money, to be honest, if they really have ruled out the air in the lungs (though goodness knows how), is on the metabolism still converting food into energy.


Information doesn't have mass.
there is going to be air in the lungs, just not under pressure.  unless they become vacuums upon death.

I am a Mormon.  If I don't use Mormons believe, those my beliefs only.
I do not go to church haven't for thirty years.
There are other Mormons on this site. So if I have misspoken about the beliefs. I welcome their input.
I am not perfect and never will be. I do strive to be true to myself. I do my best to stay true to the Mormon faith. Thanks for caring and if you don't peace be with you.

#14    Soul Kitchen

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Posted 27 April 2011 - 04:39 AM

View PostTiggs, on 26 April 2011 - 11:09 AM, said:

Which immediately ceases to be at the moment of Death?
Yes. Think about it.

Quote

My money, to be honest, if they really have ruled out the air in the lungs (though goodness knows how), is on the metabolism still converting food into energy.
I won't lie those is probably more likely. But that can't account for the consistent weight of the 'soul'.

Quote

Information doesn't have mass.
Exactly my point! Yet something that does have mass manifests itself in information.
The soul thing could be vice versa in a way, except the digital part.

Edited by Thesantanafan, 27 April 2011 - 04:39 AM.

Life is too short to waste on responsibilities. :)

#15    Tiggs

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Posted 27 April 2011 - 07:34 AM

View PostThesantanafan, on 27 April 2011 - 04:39 AM, said:

Yes. Think about it.
Unless this the only instance in Physics where matter is instantaneously destroyed - what does the mass transform into?

Quote

I won't lie those is probably more likely. But that can't account for the consistent weight of the 'soul'.
Well, if the adults were approximately the same size at time of death - then it would.

Quote

Exactly my point! Yet something that does have mass manifests itself in information.
The soul thing could be vice versa in a way, except the digital part.
The classical explanation for the soul is that of radiowaves and radio transmitter. By locating the soul physically within the body, it's subject to physical enquiry - and if it's there, it hasn't been found, yet.





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