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Did Kenneth Arnold see secret german plane?


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#1    misty55

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Posted 25 April 2011 - 10:53 PM

Could he have just seen a test of this stolen German technology in 1947?

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#2    Mike G1

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Posted 25 April 2011 - 10:55 PM

View Postmisty55, on 25 April 2011 - 10:53 PM, said:

Could he have just seen a test of this stolen German technology in 1947?

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Yeah, there is a growing consensus that this is precisely what occurred.

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#3    misty55

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Posted 25 April 2011 - 10:59 PM

Germany did build 2 or 3 prototypes of these planes and test them, so I am assuming that in 47 the USA managed to get some made.

German technology was also used in the development of the B2 spy plane.

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#4    booNyzarC

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Posted 25 April 2011 - 11:13 PM

I'm of the opinion that it is plausible.  I was convinced at one point, but I'm not so certain anymore.  The general shape seems to match up and when you consider that an artists rendering produced from a verbal description provided by an eye witness is undoubtedly going to have some inconsistencies with the original, it seems like a viable explanation.

The biggest red flag for me is that he reported seeing 9 of them in formation.  This is an uncommonly large number for reported test aircraft.  The second red flag is the location of the sighting is a fair distance from where most test flying was done in the day.  Third, Project 1947 which was undertaken as a response to the notorious UFO flap in 1947 and although flying wing craft are listed as possible sources for some of the sightings of that year, nothing was confirmed and they out and out stated at the time that it wasn't a Horten Wing responsible for Kenneth Arnold's sighting.

I still think it is possible, but there would be a lot of questions that need answering to arrive at this as a final and accurate conclusion.  IMHO of course.

ETA:
By the way, as I was looking into this possibility before another member (Czero 101 if I recall correctly) had mentioned a special that had run on NatGeo about the Horten.  I tracked it down on YouTube and really enjoyed it.

One of Four:


Two

The rest can be found from the second link or even in the embedded player.

Cheers. :tu:

Edited by booNyzarC, 25 April 2011 - 11:18 PM.


#5    ohio state buckeyes

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Posted 26 April 2011 - 12:28 AM

Maybe but would they have they test flew all three together like that ? I tend to think he saw something else.


#6    sinewave

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Posted 26 April 2011 - 01:49 AM

Good post Misty.  It seems very plausible.  As for him seeing 9 perhaps it was only 2 or 3 accompanied by conventional planes and he was too freaked out to notice or maybe he embellished a bit.

Edited by sinewave, 26 April 2011 - 01:50 AM.


#7    IamsSon

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Posted 26 April 2011 - 02:22 AM

Arnold saw nine of these craft during that sighting event.  If we had nine of these craft built by 1947, what happened to them?  If nine of these craft were flying together that would actually mean we had more than those nine.

Edited by IamsSon, 26 April 2011 - 02:32 AM.

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#8    sinewave

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Posted 26 April 2011 - 02:47 AM

View PostIamsSon, on 26 April 2011 - 02:22 AM, said:

Arnold saw nine of these craft during that sighting event.  If we had nine of these craft built by 1947, what happened to them?  If nine of these craft were flying together that would actually mean we had more than those nine.


He said nine that does not mean there were actually nine.  As for what happened to them if there were nine, I am sure lots of aircraft were built that we don't know about and cannot be accounted for these days.


#9    DONTEATUS

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Posted 26 April 2011 - 02:53 AM

Look what we did to all our Flying Wings !

This is a Work in Progress!

#10    IamsSon

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Posted 26 April 2011 - 02:59 AM

View PostDONTEATUS, on 26 April 2011 - 02:53 AM, said:

Look what we did to all our Flying Wings !
Exactly!  What happened to our flying wings?  They were all flops until the B-2.  If these nine (and potentially more) craft were ours, that means we would have been at least 6 of them since the Germans purportedly only had 3 prototypes.  So, before 1947 we built these craft and then forgot how to make flying wings that actually flew?

"But then with me that horrid doubt always arises whether the convictions of man's mind which has been developed from the mind of the lower animals, are of any value or at all trustworthy. Would any one trust in the convictions of a monkey's mind, if there are any convictions in such a mind?" - Charles Darwin, in a letter to William Graham on July 3, 1881

#11    sinewave

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Posted 26 April 2011 - 04:02 AM

View PostIamsSon, on 26 April 2011 - 02:59 AM, said:

Exactly!  What happened to our flying wings?  They were all flops until the B-2.  If these nine (and potentially more) craft were ours, that means we would have been at least 6 of them since the Germans purportedly only had 3 prototypes.  So, before 1947 we built these craft and then forgot how to make flying wings that actually flew?


It is not quite that simple.  The YB-49 was independently developed by Northrup (Jack himself leading the charge) and was not based on the captured German design.  There was no "forgetting" involved. The Northrup design was similar but not the same.  It was much larger and designed to carry a heavy bomb load. Yes, it was a difficult design to fly but the project was killed not because of failures but because Jack refused to merge Northrup with Convair.  The Air Force believed in the design and was willing to fund it provided Northrup would agree to become part of Convair.  Jack refused and development stopped.   The B-2 borrows heavily from the original YB design.

Edited by sinewave, 26 April 2011 - 04:04 AM.


#12    d e v i c e

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Posted 26 April 2011 - 11:14 AM

Also, Kenneth Arnold calculated the speed of the formation at about 1200mph. The top speed of the Horton Ho 229 - Nazi stealth fighter -  was a little over 600mph. So I'm not so sure.




#13    Robbo

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Posted 26 April 2011 - 11:40 AM

He didn't use any real sophisticated means to calculate speed, plus there could have been some exaggeration. The margin for error would have been reasonably high.

It's a real possibility that what he saw was a secret design and it is only really after the press coined the phrase "Flying Saucer" that everybody began seeing them. It might be that we have never been visited at all and the whole phenomena was started by a simple sighting of top secret aircraft. I don't know why, but that is a little depressing to me - I like attempting to explain every new sighting.

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#14    AZTom

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Posted 26 April 2011 - 07:25 PM

Did Kenneth Arnold see a secret aircraft? I don't think so, as stated earlier, it seems like a large number for experimental craft. Secondly, I find it amusing that to support this theory, one must first discount the only witness. I find statements that perhaps he miscounted or exagerrated to be amusing.The only information is based on Arnolds description,if we throw that away,all we are doing telling stories.


#15    sinewave

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Posted 26 April 2011 - 11:27 PM

View PostDevice, on 26 April 2011 - 11:14 AM, said:

Also, Kenneth Arnold calculated the speed of the formation at about 1200mph. The top speed of the Horton Ho 229 - Nazi stealth fighter -  was a little over 600mph. So I'm not so sure.


Pilots don't have magical abilities to estimate speed.  This is especially difficult when distance and size are not known.  I contend he was guessing or embellishing.





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