185 replies to this topic

[ali smack]

It would be funny if Randi was ever proved wrong though

[SolarPlexus]

IamsSon, on 15 May 2011 - 01:01 PM, said:

So, it does seem like Randi is legally providing himself with an out.

Absolutely. The $1.000.000 challenge is perfectly legal, maybe i shouldn't have used the term "fraud"

[ShadowSot]

SolarPlexus, on 15 May 2011 - 09:23 PM, said:

Absolutely. The $1.000.000 challenge is perfectly legal, maybe i shouldn't have used the term "fraud"

The point is, passing the challenge doesn't necessarily equate to paranormal.
Most likely, if someday someone does win, the announcement will follow the wording of:
"We grant So Anne Sow the sum of 1,000,000 dollars in such a way that we can not conceive of a way she passed it without a supernatural means."

Which is pretty much what a scientific or skeptic person should say.

Then likely they'd invite her/him back for further studies, it's what I'd do.

Aside from providing a double whammy to the case, by examining it could move it from paranormal to normal.

[SolarPlexus]

ShadowSot, on 15 May 2011 - 09:36 PM, said:

The point is, passing the challenge doesn't necessarily equate to paranormal.

I must agree. But then the $1 Million Challenge is pure bussiness, not science.

[ShadowSot]

SolarPlexus, on 15 May 2011 - 10:24 PM, said:

I must agree. But then the $1 Million Challenge is pure bussiness, not science.

Science doesn't work in definites either. Which is why I pointed out that most likely they would continue to study.

[SolarPlexus]

It is like a competition/game show. The organizer makes the offer, drafts his conditions, is the judge and jury in his own offer. The person who wins the Challenge gets the money. Does it do anything for science? No.

It is wrong to consider Randi a true skeptic and a scientist with honest intentions. He was a stage magician for 30 years and now he is a showman. That is fundamentally the same.

Edited by SolarPlexus, 15 May 2011 - 10:35 PM.

[Soul Kitchen]

Perhaps the most legitimate psychics are not the type to care much about money.
Similar to how the more advanced martial artists become the less desire they have for fighting.

This is just a thought, don't attack me for it.

[IamsSon]

SolarPlexus, on 15 May 2011 - 10:24 PM, said:

I must agree. But then the $1 Million Challenge is pure bussiness, not science.

It's not science or business, it's more of an "I know there's no such thing as the paranormal, so even if someone does something and I can't explaining it, it will not be paranormal, it will merely mean I can't explain how I'm being fooled" kind of thing.

[ShadowSot]

SolarPlexus, on 15 May 2011 - 10:34 PM, said:

It is like a competition/game show. The organizer makes the offer, drafts his conditions, is the judge and jury in his own offer. The person who wins the Challenge gets the money. Does it do anything for science? No.

It is wrong to consider Randi a true skeptic and a scientist with honest intentions. He was a stage magician for 30 years and now he is a showman. That is fundamentally the same.

To claim that because they include the addendum that passing the challenge does not prove the paranormal therefor proves that they are frauds and Randi a pseudo skeptic is misleading at best. Randi is not a scientist, true, which is why the crew who is brought in to set up the tests usually is comprised of specialists relating to the person who's going to go through the challenge.
This can include scientists, mentalists, or whomever is appropriate.

Randi uses the challenge as a tool, and again, he is not directly involved in the challenge. Instead it's left to the people who are assembled to set up the challenge for the person doing the challenge.
Thy are the ones who decide whether or not the person has passed the challenge, Banacheck is the one who weighs in on it.

[booNyzarC]

I really don't get why people have it out for James Randi.  He's just trying to expose charlatans for what they are in an effort to protect people from getting swindled.  If you don't like what he does, feel free to book a phone call with Sylvia Brown to hear about your past lives or relatives or whatever else is on your mind.  I'm sure Sylvia will appreciate your contributions.

In the mean time I'll just keep on appreciating the efforts of people like James Randi.

[ShadowSot]

Quote

I'm sure Sylvia will appreciate your contributions.

Speaking of her, might as well plug Robert Lancaster's site, StopSylvia.com.

Mr. Lancaster's a member of this site, actually, though he's not really active.

[SolarPlexus]

I shouldn't have named this thread the way i did and call Randi a fraud, i apologize. What he's doing is perfectly legal. I only wanted to discuss the scientific credibility of the Challenge itself, and i asked a moderator to rename this thread accordingly (if he finds my request reasonable)

Edited by SolarPlexus, 16 May 2011 - 01:06 AM.

[ShadowSot]

SolarPlexus, on 16 May 2011 - 01:02 AM, said:

I shouldn't have named this thread the way i did and call Randi a fraud, i apologize. What he's doing is perfectly legal. I only wanted to discuss the scientific credibility of the Challenge itself, and i asked a moderator to rename this thread accordingly (if he finds my request reasonable)

Since specialists are called in respective to the particular challenges, the challengers are submitted to multiple trials to rule out the chance of uh... chance, and the entire process is done with the agreement of those being tested.

The addendum, that passing the Million Dollar challenge does not prove the paranormal, is also a good skeptical and scientific statement.

[AZTom]

Soul Kitchen, on 15 May 2011 - 10:35 PM, said:

Perhaps the most legitimate psychics are not the type to care much about money.
Similar to how the more advanced martial artists become the less desire they have for fighting.

This is just a thought, don't attack me for it.

OK, I'm not attacking."Perhaps the most legitimate psychics are not the type to care much about money." I assume you are suggesting that they are spiritually above the desire for wealth,not that they are communists. I don't see the connection between psychic abilities and not needing/wanting money, but I'll give you the benfit of the doubt. These psychics, who have spiritually transcended greed and all its ills,wouldn't want the million dollars to give to their charity of choice. I have trouble picturing the person who wants neither wealth nor to help his fellow man. Please help me see what I am missing.

[Sakari]

AZTom, on 18 May 2011 - 09:14 PM, said:

OK, I'm not attacking."Perhaps the most legitimate psychics are not the type to care much about money." I assume you are suggesting that they are spiritually above the desire for wealth,not that they are communists. I don't see the connection between psychic abilities and not needing/wanting money, but I'll give you the benfit of the doubt. These psychics, who have spiritually transcended greed and all its ills,wouldn't want the million dollars to give to their charity of choice. I have trouble picturing the person who wants neither wealth nor to help his fellow man. Please help me see what I am missing.

If they did not want money because they are so nice, how about a little "heads up " to some Tsunami's , Earth Quakes, or some Planes flying into buildings?

Maybe even a whereabouts to a missing child?