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Roswell was Soviet plot to create US panic


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#46    The Religious Hoax

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Posted 29 May 2011 - 01:40 PM

http://devoid.blogs....-of-dr-mengele/

This lady is a fraud.  Read towards the end of this link, it's really all you need to know about Ms. Jacobsen.


#47    psyche101

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Posted 30 May 2011 - 03:03 AM

View Postskyeagle409, on 27 May 2011 - 08:41 AM, said:

Question is, Are you learning anything from history?

Yes I have learned much. I have learned that you are the sort of person to avoid with regards to the ETH as your zealous and credulous outlook is biased beyond belief and that alone is more than enough reason to not believe a word you say. I learned that you do not keep your word (Pax) I Learned that you do not read others posts and use them as a soapbox to loudly proclaim an appeal to authority. I have learned that facts mean nothing to you where ET is concerned. I have learned that your debating tactics are dishonest to say the least, I have learned that your true talent is flamebaiting, I learned that math is something you do not tackle, but just proclaim is wrong, I learned that Roswell has nothing to do with Aliens. You can take credit for the last claim which is a direct result of your diligent research.
Much more, but is that along the lines you were speaking of?

View Postskyeagle409, on 27 May 2011 - 08:41 AM, said:

You mention "compartmentalization," regarding Project Mogul, and yet, the name: Project Mogul appeared in an unclassified letter.

Was compartmentalisation deployed within the MOGUL Project - yes or no?

Can you explain to me the difference between and public domain, and a private communique`?

I did not think so.

Again, I ask you to post a letter I have written within the last seven days, I write about 3 a day, so that you may demonstrate your argument and show me how a private communique` is public domain, because as far as I know, it is not. If you cannot complete this challenge, I would suggest you go back to the drawing board until you can. I am sick to death of having the same conversation with you over and again. What do you hope to accomplish with constantly harassing me with the same crap over and again?

View Postskyeagle409, on 27 May 2011 - 08:41 AM, said:

Well, I respect the Air Force in more ways than one, however, I have slammed the Air Force for misleading the public on UFOs, and I am not alone. Others with the Air Force itself, have done the same, including the Air Force's proejct officer who supplied  material used in the Air Force's 1997 Roswell Report. When he saw that the Air Force maniupulated his material, he went public and spoke out and revealed in the Washington Post what I knew all along.

I am yet to see you display respect for the Air Force at all. The only time you reference them is when deriding, or claiming to use some poor soul for information. All you do is say that your former employee cannot be trusted. Why they still let you onto bases (if they or you actually do) is beyond me. Ex Employees who just rubbish the employer all the time are not welcomed to keep returning. You see, not much of what you say at all "jives".

And now you AGAIN bring up Madson. You could not even spell his name right to begin with! We have had the Madson discussion far too many times now, just answer the question that ends this debate each and every time I ask it.

Why has Madson not taken his claims to court? If he indeed has been misrepresented, and this is not what it appears to be, which is no more than straight out jealousy that McAndrews "took" Madsons slice of the limelight, then he would have a massive case that not even the USAF could rebut, and he would finally validate all the ET kooks. But he cannot do it. If there is a reason other than he is full of it, please put it up for me to see, you have not been able to do so every since you brought up this crybabies pathetic claim.

View Postskyeagle409, on 27 May 2011 - 08:41 AM, said:

I understand a lot more about Project Mogul than you think, which is why I  have told you that you were simply  wrong.

No you do not, and this is why both Lost Shaman and I have had to direct you to parts of the reports to help you straighten out your wildly incorrect perceptions. You have made so many mistakes that it is not funny with regards to implementation of the project. You are an Anti-authority on MOGUL. This is why you make the above silly claims like Madson's embarrassing antics, why you do not understand compartmentalisation, why you keep saying the MOGUL was not classified, when it is a distinction so simple that my 6 year old can understand it.
So "simply telling" me that I am wrong is ludicrous You may as well offer advice to brain surgeons as you have an equal understanding of brain surgery, i.e nada.

And such has been constantly pointed out to you with backing evidence as opposed to your constant appeal to authority. It really irks you that you cannot convert people to your religion, doesn't it. Now please find a new member to harass with old arguments, nothing other than closure of this thread can be accomplished by your continual harassment with old and completely worn out debates. You bore me, bring something new to the table or go find a goat to stare at.

Edited by psyche101, 30 May 2011 - 03:06 AM.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#48    psyche101

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Posted 30 May 2011 - 03:10 AM

View PostThe Religious Hoax, on 29 May 2011 - 01:40 PM, said:

http://devoid.blogs....-of-dr-mengele/

This lady is a fraud.  Read towards the end of this link, it's really all you need to know about Ms. Jacobsen.


I would have to agree, this line from the original link:

Quote

In her book, Jacobsen claims that a retired EG&G engineer, who wished to remain anonymous, had told her that he had witnessed the parts and bodies from the alleged crashed UFO near Roswell, NM in 1947. He says they were brought to Area 51 after being stored at Wright Patterson Field in Dayton, Ohio. The reason the base is called Ares 51, Jacobsen claims, is because these materials arrived in 1951.

Is not better than the hearsay that Bragalia sensationalises. An anonymous person said that....... Claims are just claims.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#49    booNyzarC

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Posted 30 May 2011 - 03:19 AM

Caw Caw...  A can of whoopass has been released...  so quoth the raven. :tu:


#50    psyche101

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Posted 30 May 2011 - 03:22 AM

View Post747400, on 27 May 2011 - 08:25 AM, said:

Actually i don't think Stalin was insane, not in international relations at any rate. He was very keen to avoid conflict with anywhere before the war (hence the non-aggression pact with Hitler), and after '45 he was very anxious not to provoke conflict with the West, at any rate until he'd got the Bomb - which of course he hadn't in '47.  He pushed things as far as he could with the blockade of Berlin, but he could have gone a lot further - just shooting down the British and American planes  - if he'd really wanted to provoke a conflict.


I do not know, surely he expected International condemnation by killing so many? He is known to have said : I trust no one, not even myself.

Considering the bomb, I thought that might have been the motivation for such a flight into enemy territory considering the proximity of the crash and the location of the 509th?

Not that I am buying the wing explanation yet, despite the astounding similarity with Arnolds description, and Arnolds impression is that what he saw was man made.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#51    psyche101

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Posted 30 May 2011 - 03:24 AM

View PostbooNyzarC, on 30 May 2011 - 03:19 AM, said:

Caw Caw...  A can of whoopass has been released...  so quoth the raven. :tu:


To keep returning for more so often, he must have one thick book in his pants.

Or has a strange fetish.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#52    DONTEATUS

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Posted 30 May 2011 - 03:29 AM

Looks up at the Stars tonight and wonders what realitys await us?

This is a Work in Progress!

#53    Valdemar the Great

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Posted 30 May 2011 - 07:06 AM

View Postpsyche101, on 30 May 2011 - 03:22 AM, said:

I do not know, surely he expected International condemnation by killing so many? He is known to have said : I trust no one, not even myself.

Considering the bomb, I thought that might have been the motivation for such a flight into enemy territory considering the proximity of the crash and the location of the 509th?

Not that I am buying the wing explanation yet, despite the astounding similarity with Arnolds description, and Arnolds impression is that what he saw was man made.
The international community took no notice whatsoever of what he did before the war, why should they suddenly decide to condemn him all of a sudden after the war? And he didn't have a bomb in '47; so why on earth would he risk a war with a country that did have it by doing something as foolhardy as flying into their airspace? That's why he went just as far as he had but no further in Berlin; he was no fool. And then we have to consider the gentically engineered mutants aspect; if the ETh is ruled out as being inherently implausible, what about this?

Surely it'd be much, much simpler to leave the Stalin aspect out of it and just consider that it may have been one of flying wings the USAAF was testing; although that has difficulty getting off the grund either (to paraphrase a friend of ours), since any Air Force personnel would immediately recognise such a thing as an aircraft, even if it was an unconventional shape.

Life is a hideous business, and from the background behind what we know of it peer daemoniacal hints of truth which make it sometimes a thousandfold more hideous.

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#54    lost_shaman

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Posted 30 May 2011 - 07:58 AM

View Post747400, on 30 May 2011 - 07:06 AM, said:

The international community took no notice whatsoever of what he did before the war, why should they suddenly decide to condemn him all of a sudden after the war?

Before the war the Country itself adhered to an Isolationist policy.

Are you suggesting that the post war disposition of the U.S. is hypocritical?

If so? What is that based on? How could the pre-war U.S. have stopped this world-wide insanity?

Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you. - Friedrich Nietzsche

#55    Valdemar the Great

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Posted 30 May 2011 - 08:10 AM

View Postlost_shaman, on 30 May 2011 - 07:58 AM, said:

Before the war the Country itself adhered to an Isolationist policy.

Are you suggesting that the post war disposition of the U.S. is hypocritical?

If so? What is that based on? How could the pre-war U.S. have stopped this world-wide insanity?
I'm not saying anyone was hypocritical, I was just saying in response to psyche's point that Stalin would have expected international condemnation, but I don't think he would have done, since no one had up until then, so why suddenly decide to do something so foolish?

Life is a hideous business, and from the background behind what we know of it peer daemoniacal hints of truth which make it sometimes a thousandfold more hideous.

H. P. Lovecraft.


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#56    psyche101

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Posted 30 May 2011 - 08:22 AM

View Post747400, on 30 May 2011 - 07:06 AM, said:

The international community took no notice whatsoever of what he did before the war, why should they suddenly decide to condemn him all of a sudden after the war? And he didn't have a bomb in '47; so why on earth would he risk a war with a country that did have it by doing something as foolhardy as flying into their airspace? That's why he went just as far as he had but no further in Berlin; he was no fool. And then we have to consider the gentically engineered mutants aspect; if the ETh is ruled out as being inherently implausible, what about this?

Surely it'd be much, much simpler to leave the Stalin aspect out of it and just consider that it may have been one of flying wings the USAAF was testing; although that has difficulty getting off the grund either (to paraphrase a friend of ours), since any Air Force personnel would immediately recognise such a thing as an aircraft, even if it was an unconventional shape.


I am sure that responses to Russia's activities, and the level of heat in the cold war must have been at least in part fueled by Stalins more unsavoury activities. But I agree with you on the mutant aspect, I do not think it is a viable option either. All I am saying is that if Stalin was behind the incursion of prototype aircraft into Roswell, that it was not merely the middle of nowhere, byt quite close to the worlds only nuclear capable bomber group. One member said "why the middle of nowhere" and I think this answers that OK as not really the middle of nowhere, but an area of intense interest to Russia.
I just do not think such would be beyond Stalin. Not much was, he was insane.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#57    Valdemar the Great

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Posted 30 May 2011 - 08:47 AM

I think that provoking panic would have been a very foolish thing to do before they had a bomb of their own that they could use as a deterrent. And i don't think Stalin was foolish. Insane is not necessarily the same thing as foolish.

Life is a hideous business, and from the background behind what we know of it peer daemoniacal hints of truth which make it sometimes a thousandfold more hideous.

H. P. Lovecraft.


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#58    psyche101

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Posted 30 May 2011 - 10:40 PM

View Post747400, on 30 May 2011 - 08:47 AM, said:

I think that provoking panic would have been a very foolish thing to do before they had a bomb of their own that they could use as a deterrent. And i don't think Stalin was foolish. Insane is not necessarily the same thing as foolish.


Going out on a speculation limb though, if Stalin was behind such an incursion, I do not think the reason would be to panic America, but to steal what they could from the 509th. If he had a bomb of his own, he would not have to fear America any more than America would fear him. One of his first acts of power after the death of Lenin was to bolster intelligence.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#59    MID

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Posted 30 May 2011 - 11:49 PM

View PostPersia, on 14 May 2011 - 07:26 AM, said:

Devotees of science fiction have been convinced for decades that an alien spacecraft crashed in the desert of New Mexico and that the American government covered up the recovery of extraterrestrial bodies.

http://www.telegraph...e-US-panic.html

It wasn't aliens, it was Nazis, Communists and mutants: New book reveals the 'real' story behind the Roswell landing

http://www.dailymail...l#ixzz1MJFGqStp



I'm thinking Habitat has the correct location for this one... :yes:

I think that Mengele was running, big-time, and hiding from lots of people, including certain Germans, the Soviets, and the Americans in the immediate post war years (and longer!).  Stalin was also rather busy re-building his country, and the roughly 72,000 towns and villages that had been destroyed by the Nazi's.


Yes...Stalin teams up with Mengele right after the war to put forth this fantastic thing to induce a scare into the Americans...? :wacko:


Strangely, it didn't work.


#60    DONTEATUS

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Posted 31 May 2011 - 02:34 AM

Remember this Line ? "Is it Safe" Is it ?

This is a Work in Progress!




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