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Roswell was Soviet plot to create US panic


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#76    Myles

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Posted 04 June 2011 - 04:46 PM

 747400, on 04 June 2011 - 06:55 AM, said:

There, i think, we have an example of the phenomenon I've observed previously; the idea that anything, however, preposterous, if it has a terrrestrial origin, has to be more plausible than anything involving ExtraTerrestrials. So Josef Stalin cooperating with Joseph Mengele to produce genetically engineered mutants, putting them in a secret plane, developed at no doubt not inconsiderable expense from German technology, and which would outclass anything else in the world by a huge margin in terms of range and performance, and then throwing away this great technological lead you've acquired, by provoking a war with the only nuclear armed power in the world (when he hadn't yet developed nukes of his own), by flying it into their airspace and crashing it (and thus giving the US your ultra-secret aircraft); all that is more believeable than anything involving extraterrestrials?



Really?  :unsure2:
Yes.


#77    psyche101

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Posted 06 June 2011 - 12:28 AM

 skyeagle409, on 03 June 2011 - 07:09 AM, said:

How many times have I warned skeptics to beware of certain websites?




How many times have you been asked to read posts and counter debates with debate as opposed to an appeal to authority?

You are such a drama Queen. I notice you did not take each link and prove it wrong, because you cannot. You can just make grandiose claims.


 skyeagle409, on 03 June 2011 - 07:09 AM, said:

Project Mogul was not classified at all. In fact, specifices of its experiements were made public, which goes to show that Project Mogul is not what skeptics think it is, and it shows just how effectively the Air Force was able to duped those who were unaware of what Project Mogul really was, and it had nothing to do with spying n the Soviet Union.

It was known that fallout would be the answer to detecting the Soviet's first nuke blast, and as it was, a modified B-29 detected the Soviet's first blast through air samples. Remember, I posted historical facts that backed my claim.


Yes Project MOGUL was indeed classified, the balloons were not. You should look further back into history, rather than what simply supports you here and now, then you would know that MOGUL was the forerunner for other programs - Skyhook, and Moby Dick. The previous espionage programs. You would also know how Project Moby Dick upset the Russians. You would also know that Dr. Maurice Ewing had earlier researched the deep sound channel in the oceans and theorized that a similar sound channel existed in the upper atmosphere and that is the premise that MOGUL operated upon. (ALTERNATIVE METHOD - look it up) And you would now that MOGUL's primary purpose was long-distance detection of sound waves generated by Soviet atomic bomb tests. As you should know, Russia had not as yet set off their bomb, it seems to me a prudent measure to have as many detection methods available ia=s is possible given the situation.
Because one project was successful, and the other not, does not mean the unsuccessful project never existed, or that you can change the details of it's existence. You have not backed any claim, you have added superfluous information to convolute the subject matter, one of your dishonest tactics.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#78    psyche101

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Posted 06 June 2011 - 12:39 AM

 skyeagle409, on 03 June 2011 - 07:28 AM, said:

[/i]
So, Project Mogul was so secret thta even Charles Moore didn't know of the name of Mogul. Just reminding you that came from your own link. Now, for the rest of the story. Whose name appears as Head of Project Mogul. You can go through this unclassified letter that mentions who is head of Project Mogul.by name. You guessed it, the name as head of Project Mogul is none other than Charles Moore.

Posted Image

I have repeatedly warned you that the Air Force was misleading the public all along, but fortunately, the polls show that the majority of Americans didn't believe the Air Force, and rightly so.


And I have repeatedly asked you to produce one of my unclassified letters so that you can demonstrate how a private communique` is public domain. You refuse to answer this because you cannot, and it demonstrates the validity of your straw man here. What you have is a letter that someone got a hold of way after the fact, which proves nothing. Very hypocritical of you to consistently avoid the challenge I set for you to prove your point, when you keeping asking Boon to keep doing his math over and again in the BE thread. How about we see some effort from you, and not your constant appeal to authority?

So post the letter I wrote and prove me wrong or cease and desist your ranting and raving would you.

I have repeatedly warned you that I will use logic and reasoning against the nonsense you post.

Edited by psyche101, 06 June 2011 - 12:42 AM.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#79    psyche101

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Posted 06 June 2011 - 12:42 AM

 skyeagle409, on 03 June 2011 - 07:41 AM, said:

[/i]
I am right again, and I have  already told you that Mogul balloons were not classified at all, and in fact, were nothing more than unclassified research balloons with questionnaries attached for ordinary civilians with no secuity clearances to add their own data input.


This may be of some help, God knows helping you is beyond me. Perhaps the English Dictionary may assist you. Perhaps.


proj·ect  (prjkt, -kt)
n.

1. A plan or proposal; a scheme. See Synonyms at plan.
2. An undertaking requiring concerted effort: a community cleanup project; a government-funded irrigation project.
3. An extensive task undertaken by a student or group of students to apply, illustrate, or supplement classroom lessons.
4. A housing project.

bal·loon  (b-ln)
n.

1.
a. A flexible bag designed to be inflated with hot air or with a gas, such as helium, that is lighter than the surrounding air, causing it to rise and float in the atmosphere.
b. Such a bag with sufficient capacity to lift and transport a suspended gondola or other load.
c. Such a bag shaped like a figure or object when inflated; an inflatable.
2. A usually round or oblong inflatable rubber bag used as a toy.
3. Medicine A sac that is inserted into a body cavity or tube and distended with air or gas for therapeutic purposes, such as angioplasty.
4. A rounded or irregularly shaped outline containing the words that a character in a cartoon is represented to be saying.


See how a balloon is a different thing from a project? Same thing here, this is where you continuously fall down.

Edited by psyche101, 06 June 2011 - 12:43 AM.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#80    psyche101

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Posted 06 June 2011 - 12:50 AM

 skyeagle409, on 03 June 2011 - 07:54 AM, said:

[/i]
We didn't need such acoustical devices to detect the Soviet's nuke blast. We did it by air samples.

In 1945? 46?

And no, it turned out we did not need all of the projects running, only one was successful, but that is how you back yourself up isn't it? One does not leave something as important as defending the country against possible atomic threats does one? One has back up plans, doesn't one?

Just because a plane finally made the detection that the US military were listening to for years, does not mean all other projects devoted to listening did not exist.

 skyeagle409, on 03 June 2011 - 07:54 AM, said:

I have never visited Roswell before, but I will be in Roswell next month and I will take a lot of photos, and after that, I will visit Phoenix again, and take more photos from downtown while facing south.

God help us all. One wonders what you will be like when you return from your personal Mecca. Not too much to say about your own service record there huh? The plot is thickening.

 skyeagle409, on 03 June 2011 - 07:54 AM, said:

According to those involve in the Roswell incident at Roswell AAF and the  sorrounding areas, , and at Wright-Patterson AFB, the Roswell incident did in fact, involved  extraterrestrials.

And according to those involved in the Roswell incident and the surrounding area, there were balloons as well. Depends on who you speak to doesn't it.

 skyeagle409, on 03 June 2011 - 07:54 AM, said:

There are still two cover stories in affect, and they are, the Air Force's 1994 and 1997 Roswell Reports.


No there is not, there is much confusion on your part, and this will persist and may only clarify when you read the reports. Notice the "may" in there.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#81    psyche101

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Posted 06 June 2011 - 01:02 AM

 skyeagle409, on 03 June 2011 - 08:00 AM, said:

[/i]

Take another look. From one of your own links.


Do you ever read anything that you reply to?

How does this

Quote

The press release announcing the unusual event was issued by the Commander of the 509th Bomb Group at Roswell Army Air Field, Colonel William Blanchard, who later went on to become a four-star general and Vice Chief of Staff of the United States Air Force.

That the weather balloon story was a coverup has been confirmed by individuals directly involved, including the late General Thomas DuBose who took the telephone call from Washington, D.C., ordering the coverup.

Numerous other credible military and civilian witnesses have testified that the original press release was correct and that the Roswell wreckage was of extraterrestrial origin. One such individual was Major Jesse Marcel, the Intelligence Officer of the 509th Bomb Group and one of the first military officers at the scene.

Adress what you quoted - this

Quote

The SAF also directed current Air Force elements to reveal records of the "highest classification and compartmentalization," particularly related to anything of an extraordinary nature

The above bolsters my post, in that this is exactly what happened, and the cover up mentioned by Blanchard above was answered by MOGUL, even though Lost Shamans CIC hypothesis is the more likely conclusion. I hope he gets recognised, and handsomely rewarded for his brilliance and for seeing something where everyone is looking. He outdid both you and I to come up with the best conclusion that falsifies us both, face up to it. You and I were so lost in arguing balloons and flying saucers that the obvious slipped right past us, and it was all in the Twinning memo for everyone to see all along. This is where the ETH is taking the UFO phenomena - backwards and you are leading the charge.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#82    psyche101

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Posted 06 June 2011 - 01:10 AM

 digitalartist, on 03 June 2011 - 02:54 PM, said:

Air sampling would only have indicated that a test did occur.  The acoustical devices would have been used to narrow down where the testing was taking place as well as the size of the blast, etc...



Posted Image

We have a winner!

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#83    psyche101

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Posted 06 June 2011 - 01:11 AM

 747400, on 04 June 2011 - 06:55 AM, said:

There, i think, we have an example of the phenomenon I've observed previously; the idea that anything, however, preposterous, if it has a terrrestrial origin, has to be more plausible than anything involving ExtraTerrestrials. So Josef Stalin cooperating with Joseph Mengele to produce genetically engineered mutants, putting them in a secret plane, developed at no doubt not inconsiderable expense from German technology, and which would outclass anything else in the world by a huge margin in terms of range and performance, and then throwing away this great technological lead you've acquired, by provoking a war with the only nuclear armed power in the world (when he hadn't yet developed nukes of his own), by flying it into their airspace and crashing it (and thus giving the US your ultra-secret aircraft); all that is more believeable than anything involving extraterrestrials?



Really?  :unsure2:


Well, the story is every bit as entertaining!

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#84    Carnivorous Entity

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Posted 06 June 2011 - 01:23 AM

I don't buy this. The USSR spending what would almost certainly be a huge amount of money to find out how to genetically engineer mutants that looked like stereotypical aliens and training them to fly military aircraft? Why? To what end? The article didn't state they were actually supposed to crash, so what the hell did they need a bunch of deformed kids for?

Edited by Carnivorous Entity, 06 June 2011 - 01:24 AM.

Member of UM since 2005 on a lost account.

#85    Norbert the Incredible

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Posted 06 June 2011 - 06:41 AM

 Myles, on 04 June 2011 - 04:46 PM, said:

Yes.
Do you want to explain further, or are you just going to complacently say "Yes."? Do you want to explain how you consider genetically engineered mutants and Stalin deliberately provoking with the US and giving them a present of an aircraft that if they really had it, it would have given them an unassilable lead, all that is more plausible, just because no hypothetical ETs are involved?
Or am i wasting my time even bothering to type this, and you're just going to say "Yes" again, if you reply at all?

Life is a hideous business, and from the background behind what we know of it peer daemoniacal hints of truth which make it sometimes a thousandfold more hideous.

H. P. Lovecraft.


:cat:


#86    Myles

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Posted 06 June 2011 - 11:29 AM

 747400, on 06 June 2011 - 06:41 AM, said:

Do you want to explain further, or are you just going to complacently say "Yes."? Do you want to explain how you consider genetically engineered mutants and Stalin deliberately provoking with the US and giving them a present of an aircraft that if they really had it, it would have given them an unassilable lead, all that is more plausible, just because no hypothetical ETs are involved?
Or am i wasting my time even bothering to type this, and you're just going to say "Yes" again, if you reply at all?

I don't believe this theory of the Russians orchestrating this at all.   I just think it is as believable as an alien crash.


#87    mcrom901

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Posted 06 June 2011 - 03:01 PM

 Myles, on 06 June 2011 - 11:29 AM, said:

I just think it is as believable as an alien crash.

what about a space balloon...



:alien:


#88    Norbert the Incredible

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Posted 06 June 2011 - 04:39 PM

 Myles, on 06 June 2011 - 11:29 AM, said:

I don't believe this theory of the Russians orchestrating this at all.   I just think it is as believable as an alien crash.
Really, I think ET is much, much more likely.

Life is a hideous business, and from the background behind what we know of it peer daemoniacal hints of truth which make it sometimes a thousandfold more hideous.

H. P. Lovecraft.


:cat:


#89    Myles

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Posted 06 June 2011 - 05:43 PM

 747400, on 06 June 2011 - 04:39 PM, said:

Really, I think ET is much, much more likely.
But the comparison must include more than just an ET.   It must include the whole travel of the ET, the crash, cover-up and all else that is Roswell.


#90    Norbert the Incredible

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Posted 06 June 2011 - 06:56 PM

 Myles, on 06 June 2011 - 05:43 PM, said:

But the comparison must include more than just an ET.   It must include the whole travel of the ET, the crash, cover-up and all else that is Roswell.
But are any of those intrinsically implausible? No one claims to know where it may have come from (many have guessed, but that's a different thing), so talking about faster than light travel and so on is an irrelevance, and the crash could have been caused by any number of perfectly plausible reasons - bad weather, for instance. By the ocver-up, do you mean at the tinme, or subsequently? Either could quite possibly be accounted for by governmental left-hands-not-knowing-what-right-hands-are-doing, none of it need have been a great conspiracy.

Life is a hideous business, and from the background behind what we know of it peer daemoniacal hints of truth which make it sometimes a thousandfold more hideous.

H. P. Lovecraft.


:cat:





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