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"We are going to get the Falklands back"


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#211    Mr Right Wing

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 12:25 PM

View Poststevewinn, on 22 February 2012 - 12:10 PM, said:

Posted Image

The funny thing is those two vessels are all we need to send to defeat a South American naval/air threat.

Edited by Mr Right Wing, 22 February 2012 - 12:25 PM.


#212    Farmerboy

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 10:20 PM

View Postdanydandan, on 22 February 2012 - 12:05 AM, said:

Ireland, India , Rock of Gibraltar .
Need more???????

Still haven't handed back the six counties , or the Rock of Gibraltar .
The six counties for the most part are happy where they are, as with the Falklands it should be up to the people where their alliances reside.

Edited by Farmerboy, 22 February 2012 - 10:21 PM.


#213    hetrodoxly

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 12:09 AM

View Postdanydandan, on 22 February 2012 - 12:05 AM, said:

Ireland, India , Rock of Gibraltar .
Need more???????

Still haven't handed back the six counties , or the Rock of Gibraltar .
Handed back to who? there was no united Ireland prior to British rule. Do you see a pattern emerging here the peoples of the Falklands, Gibraltar and northern Ireland all want to stay part of the UK, Britain must be doing something right, when a majority want to leave (democracy) they can but until that day comes they're all British citizens.

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#214    MichaelW

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 09:09 AM

View PostMr Right Wing, on 22 February 2012 - 12:25 PM, said:

The funny thing is those two vessels are all we need to send to defeat a South American naval/air threat.

Maybe Argentina and Uruguay, but not all of South America. You haven't reckoned on the sort of air power Chile or Venezuela can muster. The former in particular probably has the best air force in all of Latin America.

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#215    Valdemar the Great

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 04:15 PM

View PostMichaelW, on 23 February 2012 - 09:09 AM, said:

Maybe Argentina and Uruguay, but not all of South America. You haven't reckoned on the sort of air power Chile or Venezuela can muster. The former in particular probably has the best air force in all of Latin America.
hmm. 46 F-16s. That might give mr. Cameroon some cause to rethink his idea that fleet air support isn't important.

* And so, ironically in view of Mr. Chavez' not being the U.S's No.1 fan (and vice versa) does Venezuela. Now who decided to sell them those, i wonder? Su-30s, F-5s, and something called Hongdu K-8W Karakorum, as well, I see. Quite an interesting inventory.

Edited by 747400, 23 February 2012 - 04:18 PM.

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#216    keithisco

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 04:46 PM

All of this talk about "who has the biggest gun" is complete nonsense, and frankly not edifying Posted Image

If the UK or Argentina were convinced of the Legality of their claims then one of them would have gone to the International Courts for recognition. As neither have, then it must be assumed that neither feel entirely confident in their claims.

I think we are all sophisticated enough to know that the recent discovery of small amounts of oil is driving the current sabre - rattling, so if the UK extracts the oil and sends it to Argentina for processing then everyone will be happy, because both nations will profit. This is not Rocket Science people, this is Diplomacy.

Lets forget about "Biggest Gun" mentality and actually put the claims before the Internaional Courts of Law. If Argentina is awarded the Islands then the only difference is an Argentine Flag flying over the Town Hall


#217    Valdemar the Great

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 05:05 PM

I'm not rattling any Sabres. I was just browsing through various South American countries' inventories. Some of them are quite interesting. I see that Chile now has the former HMS Sheffield (III). Regarding, though, your wise & profound observation, from the perspective of a good EU Citizen, it may indeed not matter what flag is flying over your town hall, but with some other countries, the people might not be so sanguine about who they have governing them. Should they just be told that they should be Sensible and not mind about that?

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#218    Corp

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 05:46 PM

Yeah I think the Islanders will notice being annexed against their will.

War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things: the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth a war, is much worse...A man who has nothing which he is willing to fight for, nothing which he cares more about than he does about his personal safety, is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.

#219    Mr Right Wing

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 08:22 PM

View PostCorp, on 23 February 2012 - 05:46 PM, said:

Yeah I think the Islanders will notice being annexed against their will.

Britain is more powerful than Argentina and we have a UN Veto.

A UN Veto means we could do what we like to Argentina and get away with it (even nuking them).

I dont understand why Argentina likes sticking its head in the lions mouth. Bit foolish if you ask me.


#220    keithisco

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 02:52 PM

View Post747400, on 23 February 2012 - 05:05 PM, said:

I'm not rattling any Sabres. I was just browsing through various South American countries' inventories. Some of them are quite interesting. I see that Chile now has the former HMS Sheffield (III). Regarding, though, your wise & profound observation, from the perspective of a good EU Citizen, it may indeed not matter what flag is flying over your town hall, but with some other countries, the people might not be so sanguine about who they have governing them. Should they just be told that they should be Sensible and not mind about that?
I did state Tri-partite negotiations in a previous post. If the deal is good enough for the Falklanders then where lies the issue? If they agree to it, then it is their decision. To refuse to even listen to Argentina's offer is crass.

Edited by keithisco, 24 February 2012 - 02:53 PM.


#221    Corp

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 06:36 PM

View PostMr Right Wing, on 23 February 2012 - 08:22 PM, said:

Britain is more powerful than Argentina and we have a UN Veto.

A UN Veto means we could do what we like to Argentina and get away with it (even nuking them).

I dont understand why Argentina likes sticking its head in the lions mouth. Bit foolish if you ask me.

Likely because they know no one in the British government is stupid or crazy enough to start throwing around nukes like you keep wanting.

War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things: the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth a war, is much worse...A man who has nothing which he is willing to fight for, nothing which he cares more about than he does about his personal safety, is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.

#222    smurf0852

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 09:19 PM

View PostMr Right Wing, on 21 February 2012 - 12:27 AM, said:

We should

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no they gang up and kill him in the shower  :blink:


#223    monica-louise

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 10:33 PM

There is only a problem because Argentina is trying to flex her muscles again, unfortunately until the respective minerals that are being fought over have been extracted, pilfered and spirited away this furore wont be ending anytime soon...mores the pity


#224    ships-cat

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 12:11 PM

There comes a point where negotiations become futile, and even morally bankrupt.

Argentina has embedded sovereignty of the Falklands into its constitution. The relevant passage is..


First.- The Argentine Nation ratifies its legitimate and non-prescribing sovereignty over the Malvinas, Georgias del Sur and Sandwich del Sur Islands and over the corresponding maritime and insular zones, as they are an integral part of the National territory. The recovery of said territories and the full exercise of sovereignty, respectful of the way of life of their inhabitants and according to the principles of international law, are a permanent and unrelinquished goal of the Argentine people.


The full text can be found here.

In light of this, it is difficult to understand how Argentina can negotiate in good faith, when they have nothing to negotiate WITH. They have already stated that the only acceptable outcome is full sovereignty. Of particular interest is the inclusion of the term "non-prescribing sovereignty", which is a legal term for "forever... no matter how much time has passed or may pass in the future". (sort of.. )

Following from THAT, it is hard to avoid the conclusion that any negotiations by Argentina are merely a tactic to achieve the goal of full sovereignty, and NOT a genuine attempt to resolve a political difference by means of some compromise.

Set against this is the paucity of their claim for the Islands. The United Provinces of the Río de la Plata (The precursor-nation to Argentina) never created - or supported - an 'official' state-sponsored colony on the Falklands.

Lets read that again.. no official colony.

The nearest they got - and their strongest (and only ?) claim - arose from a private individual (Luis Vernet, a recently nationalised German businessman) who used his own funds to set up a commercial fishing operation on one of the Islands, mostly staffed by Europeans. This was a private initiative, given little or no practical assistance by the State. Indeed, the State refused to even send a warship to defend the colony when it was in danger of attack. (from the Americans, I beleive ?? ). It later gave him colonisation rights over East Falklands. Seeing as it did not control either East Falkland, nor the fishing grounds, these where both completely empty ceremonial gestures (with neither basis in law, nor the practical ability to enforce either of them). The British objected to the Colonisation Rights grant (though they had NO objection to the commercial fishing operation), and a year later (after a total of three years), the colony - still mostly consisting of Europeans - was removed by force by the British.

Argentine schoolchildren are indoctrinated into the concept that the Falklands are Argentinian. And yet despite this, there are relatively few Argentinian tourists.

Set against this seemingly lacklustre degree of practical interest in the Islands (then and now), and set against the subsequent 170 years of continuous British presence and infrastructure development (businesses, hospitals, schools, power, telecommunications, media, and all the trappings of a 20th century nation) and with the Islanders themselves strongly committed to remaining under British sovereignty, what is there REALLY to negotiate about ?

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#225    Mr Right Wing

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 01:13 PM

View Postships-cat, on 26 February 2012 - 12:11 PM, said:

Set against this seemingly lacklustre degree of practical interest in the Islands (then and now), and set against the subsequent 170 years of continuous British presence and infrastructure development (businesses, hospitals, schools, power, telecommunications, media, and all the trappings of a 20th century nation) and with the Islanders themselves strongly committed to remaining under British sovereignty, what is there REALLY to negotiate about ?

meow purr :)

With Argentina having no claim to the Falklands Islands I hope if conflict erupts again we nuke.

Edited by Mr Right Wing, 26 February 2012 - 01:13 PM.





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