Jump to content




Welcome to Unexplained Mysteries! Please sign in or create an account to start posting and to access a host of extra features.


* * * - - 4 votes

Roswell debris tested; Not from Earth


  • Please log in to reply
905 replies to this topic

#16    Habitat

Habitat

    Government Agent

  • Member
  • 3,387 posts
  • Joined:07 Jan 2011
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Australia

Posted 13 July 2011 - 06:14 AM

View PostArchimedes, on 13 July 2011 - 06:01 AM, said:

1. Far from being "not a native metal", aluminium is actually the most abundant metal on earth.

2. Aluminium is not an alloy.
Aluminium does not exist in its "native" state on earth, only as part of compounds. Gold is an example of a 'native' metal. The metal was only first isolated for industrial use in the 19th century. There are rare examples of metals such as silver in the uncombined state.


#17    JesseCuster

JesseCuster

    Secret Jesus

  • Member
  • 2,992 posts
  • Joined:11 Jun 2011
  • Gender:Not Selected

Posted 13 July 2011 - 06:26 AM

View PostHabitat, on 13 July 2011 - 06:14 AM, said:

Aluminium does not exist in its "native" state on earth, only as part of compounds. Gold is an example of a 'native' metal. The metal was only first isolated for industrial use in the 19th century. There are rare examples of metals such as silver in the uncombined state.
Fair enough, but I interpreted "not a native metal" as meaning "not of this planet" given the thread context of supposed Roswell debris consisting of exotic isoptopes or isotope mixtures not normally found on Earth. Finding some debris or fragments containing aluminium doesn't seem particularly odd, given how common a substance it is.

Aluminium, however, is definitely not an "alloy".   It can be part of an alloy, but being a chemical element, in itself cannot be an alloy.

Edited by Archimedes, 13 July 2011 - 06:26 AM.

"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool." - Richard P. Feynman

#18    Habitat

Habitat

    Government Agent

  • Member
  • 3,387 posts
  • Joined:07 Jan 2011
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Australia

Posted 13 July 2011 - 06:32 AM

View PostArchimedes, on 13 July 2011 - 06:26 AM, said:

Fair enough, but I interpreted "not a native metal" as meaning "not of this planet" given the thread context of supposed Roswell debris consisting of exotic isoptopes or isotope mixtures not normally found on Earth. Finding some debris or fragments containing aluminium doesn't seem particularly odd, given how common a substance it is.

Aluminium, however, is definitely not an "alloy".   It can be part of an alloy, but being a chemical element, in itself cannot be an alloy.
Ok, it does seem extraordinary it took so long to isolate from the combined state. It must be pretty tightly locked on to its compounding elements. And the human body seems to have no use for it, possibly for that reason. But I am only guessing there.


#19    TheMcGuffin

TheMcGuffin

    Government Agent

  • Member
  • 3,965 posts
  • Joined:05 Nov 2010
  • Gender:Male

Posted 13 July 2011 - 07:09 AM

View PostArchimedes, on 13 July 2011 - 06:26 AM, said:

Fair enough, but I interpreted "not a native metal" as meaning "not of this planet" given the thread context of supposed Roswell debris consisting of exotic isoptopes or isotope mixtures not normally found on Earth. Finding some debris or fragments containing aluminium doesn't seem particularly odd, given how common a substance it is.

Aluminium, however, is definitely not an "alloy".   It can be part of an alloy, but being a chemical element, in itself cannot be an alloy.



Aluminum is an element that it not found in its pure, metallic state in nature but is usually extracted from bauxite.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium


Wherever this aluminum alloy came from, the odds are overwhelming that it was manufactured by someone, not something found in nature.

"The stuff that dreams are made of"

#20    psyche101

psyche101

    Conspiracy Realist

  • Member
  • 31,047 posts
  • Joined:30 Nov 2005
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Oz

  • If you stop to think, Remember to start again

Posted 13 July 2011 - 07:35 AM

View Postcassandra5655, on 13 July 2011 - 05:46 AM, said:

aluminum is not a native metal, it is an alloy that is manufactured. i am not a geologist but i don't think its possible to find aluminum alloy in meteorites.

it makes sense that there is still some crash debris out there, very small pieces that have been missed.

i look forward to more test results and coverage.

EDIT: apparently aluminum is considered a native metal but it rarely occurs naturally in its elemental form. again, i am not a geologist.


You can find a composition similar on a  Ca-Al-rich Inclusion carbonaceous chondrite meteorite. I would expect the alloy combination might be somewhat endless.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#21    psyche101

psyche101

    Conspiracy Realist

  • Member
  • 31,047 posts
  • Joined:30 Nov 2005
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Oz

  • If you stop to think, Remember to start again

Posted 13 July 2011 - 07:40 AM

View PostTheMcGuffin, on 13 July 2011 - 05:51 AM, said:

Now right here, this is where I emphatically differ from the "skeptics", even though I am not saying that this metal is from an ET spaceship.

I find the attitude of the "expert" appalling, and disagree strongly with those who are unwilling even to put these things to the test or give them serious consideration.  

Then we shall see....


That is 100% correct, and I do apologise if I widened the net so to speak to feel you may be included, I think I was slightly incensed by The Id3al Experience's remarks. Sorry to be so broad, and thank you for the pick up. And with your regards to your next post, sadly we do see bad eggs on both sides of the fence, we probably subscribe to different examples, but I have to agree with you that both sides of the fence have elements that have preconceptions that will not be altered, despite the level of proof, and refuse to give serious consideration to matters that may well herald results. I agree, this attitude is indeed, appalling.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#22    psyche101

psyche101

    Conspiracy Realist

  • Member
  • 31,047 posts
  • Joined:30 Nov 2005
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Oz

  • If you stop to think, Remember to start again

Posted 13 July 2011 - 07:44 AM

View PostArchimedes, on 13 July 2011 - 06:26 AM, said:

Fair enough, but I interpreted "not a native metal" as meaning "not of this planet" given the thread context of supposed Roswell debris consisting of exotic isoptopes or isotope mixtures not normally found on Earth. Finding some debris or fragments containing aluminium doesn't seem particularly odd, given how common a substance it is.

Aluminium, however, is definitely not an "alloy".   It can be part of an alloy, but being a chemical element, in itself cannot be an alloy.


It is rather ambiguous wording isn't it.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#23    bmk1245

bmk1245

    puny village idiot

  • Member
  • 4,006 posts
  • Joined:16 Aug 2006
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Vilnius, Lithuania

Posted 13 July 2011 - 10:50 AM

:blink:
How it makes "not from Earth", if results of Mg isotope's abundances clearly falls into accuracy margins?!

Arguing with fool is like playing chess with pigeon: he will scatter pieces, peck King's crown, crap on bishop, and fly away bragging how he won the game... (heard once, author unknown).
Zhoom! What was that? That was your life, Mate! Oh, that was quick. Do I get another? Sorry, Mate. That's your lot. Basil Fawlty (John Cleese).

#24    The Religious Hoax

The Religious Hoax

    Apparition

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 374 posts
  • Joined:25 Dec 2010
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Minneapolis, MN

Posted 13 July 2011 - 12:55 PM

View Postbison, on 13 July 2011 - 02:03 AM, said:

The linked article tells an intriguing story of the the discovery of new metallic debris samples found at the alleged Roswell UFO crash site. A test done on these reveals a isotopic ratio of magnesium 24 and 26 not found on this planet. More confirmatory tests, by independent labs, are contemplated in the near future. If this proves out, UFOlogy suddenly becomes a whole new ball game. http://www.openminds...ell-debris-733/

Great post Bison.  Now keep your eyes open for some disinformation that will disregard these findings, and trash the lab that did the analysis.   I would guess space.com or some branch of the MSM will be tasked with debunking this.   It won't take long!


#25    DONTEATUS

DONTEATUS

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 17,393 posts
  • Joined:15 Feb 2008
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Planet TEXAS

Posted 13 July 2011 - 12:58 PM

View PostThe Religious Hoax, on 13 July 2011 - 12:55 PM, said:

Great post Bison.  Now keep your eyes open for some disinformation that will disregard these findings, and trash the lab that did the analysis.   I would guess space.com or some branch of the MSM will be tasked with debunking this.   It won't take long!
How does one get in touch with the MSM  ? do they have a ORG,DOD,NET,DOT,COM site?
I did run across the M&M but when I got back to where I ran over it all that was left was a green blob the size of my thumb nail.
Sad but someone will have to break the news to the Blue one that got away.
Now Im hungry for a bag of these little guys ! :tu:

This is a Work in Progress!

#26    bmk1245

bmk1245

    puny village idiot

  • Member
  • 4,006 posts
  • Joined:16 Aug 2006
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Vilnius, Lithuania

Posted 13 July 2011 - 01:18 PM

View PostThe Religious Hoax, on 13 July 2011 - 12:55 PM, said:

Great post Bison.  Now keep your eyes open for some disinformation that will disregard these findings, and trash the lab that did the analysis.   I would guess space.com or some branch of the MSM will be tasked with debunking this.   It won't take long!

There is nothing to debunk. Results don't show any sign of "not from Earth". If we look for natural abundances for magnesium, we will find that numbers slightly differs from posted in OPs link:
78.99% 24Mg
10.0% 25Mg
11.01% 26Mg
(Magnesium Technology: Metallurgy, Design Data, Applications, Horst E. Friedrich, Barry Leslie Mordike, Springer, 2006, page 64.)

So, differences between data for AH-1 and earthly abundances for Mg isotopes are less than 0.5%.

Arguing with fool is like playing chess with pigeon: he will scatter pieces, peck King's crown, crap on bishop, and fly away bragging how he won the game... (heard once, author unknown).
Zhoom! What was that? That was your life, Mate! Oh, that was quick. Do I get another? Sorry, Mate. That's your lot. Basil Fawlty (John Cleese).

#27    The Religious Hoax

The Religious Hoax

    Apparition

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 374 posts
  • Joined:25 Dec 2010
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Minneapolis, MN

Posted 13 July 2011 - 01:21 PM

View Postbmk1245, on 13 July 2011 - 01:18 PM, said:

There is nothing to debunk. Results don't show any sign of "not from Earth". If we look for natural abundances for magnesium, we will find that numbers slightly differs from posted in OPs link:
78.99% 24Mg
10.0% 25Mg
11.01% 26Mg
(Magnesium Technology: Metallurgy, Design Data, Applications, Horst E. Friedrich, Barry Leslie Mordike, Springer, 2006, page 64.)

So, differences between data for AH-1 and earthly abundances for Mg isotopes are less than 0.5%.

I won't pretend to know anything about radiochemistry, but what is the standard deviation for isotope composition here on Earth?   0.5% can either be a lot, or just a little.


#28    JesseCuster

JesseCuster

    Secret Jesus

  • Member
  • 2,992 posts
  • Joined:11 Jun 2011
  • Gender:Not Selected

Posted 13 July 2011 - 02:22 PM

View PostTheMcGuffin, on 13 July 2011 - 07:09 AM, said:

Aluminum is an element that it not found in its pure, metallic state in nature but is usually extracted from bauxite.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium


Wherever this aluminum alloy came from, the odds are overwhelming that it was manufactured by someone, not something found in nature.
Yes, I know that.

But if you find some sort of unidentified object or debris and tests show to be made of aluminium, it should be no surprise in itself, considering how widespread its use in everyday objects.

The post I was replying to made aluminium sound like some sort of exotic extraterrestial substance.  It was probably just poorly worded.

Edited by Archimedes, 13 July 2011 - 02:23 PM.

"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool." - Richard P. Feynman

#29    digitalartist

digitalartist

    Psychic Spy

  • Validating
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,941 posts
  • Joined:21 Mar 2008
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New York State

  • I'm Done

Posted 13 July 2011 - 03:15 PM

Before there's even a discussion about earth and extraterrestrial possibilities for the metal fragments, Frank Kimbler's story needs to be checked out.  I know what he claims but is it true.

Since I can not watch videos at this location, perhaps someone can see if any of the following questions are answered by it.

  • Was he in Roswell when he said he was?
  • Did he go out to the debris field?
  • Was he alone or with someone else when he went to the debris field?
  • If he was with someone else in the debris field, was it his only visit or did he visit the debris field prior to that?
  • If he was with someone else, who was it?
  • If he was with someone else and it was his only visit to the field were the two of them ever separated for a period of time?
  • Do the two labs verify that they tested the fragments for him and what were their conclusions?

edited to correct spelling

Edited by digitalartist, 13 July 2011 - 03:16 PM.


#30    TheMcGuffin

TheMcGuffin

    Government Agent

  • Member
  • 3,965 posts
  • Joined:05 Nov 2010
  • Gender:Male

Posted 13 July 2011 - 03:21 PM

View PostArchimedes, on 13 July 2011 - 02:22 PM, said:

Yes, I know that.

But if you find some sort of unidentified object or debris and tests show to be made of aluminium, it should be no surprise in itself, considering how widespread its use in everyday objects.

The post I was replying to made aluminium sound like some sort of exotic extraterrestial substance.  It was probably just poorly worded.


That's all right.  I'm definitely not going to say that it was from an alien spacecraft, either. No way.  I've seen this type of thing before, and the story will get some publicity for a while then just fade away and never be heard from again.  

There are many types of things that are built with aluminum alloys so I'd leave it to the real experts to determine if it was something exotic.  I don't see any of those around here, but they must exist out there in the real world somewhere.

"The stuff that dreams are made of"




1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users