Jump to content




Welcome to Unexplained Mysteries! Please sign in or create an account to start posting and to access a host of extra features.


* * * * * 1 votes

The Mysterious Death of Thelma Todd


  • Please log in to reply
98 replies to this topic

#61    JonathanVonErich

JonathanVonErich

    Telekinetic

  • Banned
  • 7,519 posts
  • Joined:19 Jul 2009
  • Gender:Not Selected

Posted 05 June 2012 - 02:39 PM

View Postregi, on 05 June 2012 - 02:29 PM, said:

Well, I recognize that it was somewhat of a physical feat to walk up to the garage, but I certainly wouldn't put it past a determined individual.
I just don't think it's an impossibility.

The driver said he'd left her alone, and that no one else was around, so I think that if this was a homicide, the best suspect is West because otherwise, it would have been a very opportunistic crime, and I think the circumstances lessens the probability that it was.

The sticking point for me, though, is that there would have been injuries to the body if this was a homicide... some sort of evidence of an assault, and according to the coroner, there wasn't any.

I think you should read a little more about the case ( particularly about the suspects, the events leading to Thelma's death ) before reaching a conclusion.

I respect your opinion, but remember that a coroner/autopsy report don't always tell the entire story. :tu:


#62    regi

regi

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,110 posts
  • Joined:28 May 2012
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Texas

Posted 05 June 2012 - 03:05 PM

View PostJonathanVonErich, on 05 June 2012 - 02:39 PM, said:

I think you should read a little more about the case ( particularly about the suspects, the events leading to Thelma's death ) before reaching a conclusion.

I respect your opinion, but remember that a coroner/autopsy report don't always tell the entire story. :tu:

Yes, an autopsy alone doesn't tell us what happened...other evidence, and circumstances of death are always considered, and according to the coroner, it was.

It's my opinion that anyone having transported the body to the garage to "finish her off" in a manner to suggest suicide is a somewhat elaborate scenario to consider. Of course, staging indicates a perp close to the victim, and that's why I suggested that West is the best person of interest if it was indeed a homicide.


#63    JonathanVonErich

JonathanVonErich

    Telekinetic

  • Banned
  • 7,519 posts
  • Joined:19 Jul 2009
  • Gender:Not Selected

Posted 06 June 2012 - 12:51 AM

View Postregi, on 05 June 2012 - 03:05 PM, said:

It's my opinion that anyone having transported the body to the garage to "finish her off" in a manner to suggest suicide is a somewhat elaborate scenario to consider. Of course, staging indicates a perp close to the victim, and that's why I suggested that West is the best person of interest if it was indeed a homicide.

I agree that West is a very interesting suspect. If it wasn't for what Donald Wolfe found for his book "Black Dahlia Files" ( that 2 days before she died, Bugsy Siegel wanted to see Thelma, and that Thelma was scared to death of him ), then West would be my favorite suspect. :yes:

Short clip about Thelma, from the documentary "The Northern Irish in Hollywood" ( Thelma's father was Irish ).



Edited by JonathanVonErich, 06 June 2012 - 12:53 AM.


#64    regi

regi

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,110 posts
  • Joined:28 May 2012
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Texas

Posted 06 June 2012 - 12:34 PM

I keep forgetting that she was only 29...

Re: other people of interest, I just don't see that type of crime committed by a mobster.
If she was killed because she 'refused an offer she couldn't refuse', I don't think there would be much speculation about her death.
Since the mob is known to murder for the sake of setting an example, it doesn't follow that they'd attempt a cover-up.


#65    Antilles

Antilles

    NCC-1701

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,205 posts
  • Joined:23 Jul 2011
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:2nd star from the left

Posted 07 June 2012 - 10:00 AM

View Postregi, on 06 June 2012 - 12:34 PM, said:

I keep forgetting that she was only 29...

Re: other people of interest, I just don't see that type of crime committed by a mobster.
If she was killed because she 'refused an offer she couldn't refuse', I don't think there would be much speculation about her death.
Since the mob is known to murder for the sake of setting an example, it doesn't follow that they'd attempt a cover-up.

Her death was a homicide - you agree? Not suicide or an accident.

LA law enforcement  in the day was a very corrupt organization. Todd's death was glossed over and buried as quickly as possible. Someone with clout had that done. Not  some obscure film director. IMO.


#66    regi

regi

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,110 posts
  • Joined:28 May 2012
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Texas

Posted 07 June 2012 - 12:09 PM

I just think that it was MOST LIKELY an accidental death.

That law enforcement was corrupt isn't evidence that Todd's death was glossed over.


#67    JonathanVonErich

JonathanVonErich

    Telekinetic

  • Banned
  • 7,519 posts
  • Joined:19 Jul 2009
  • Gender:Not Selected

Posted 07 June 2012 - 12:54 PM

View Postregi, on 07 June 2012 - 12:09 PM, said:

That law enforcement was corrupt isn't evidence that Todd's death was glossed over.

True, but it's good evidence that you shouldn't trust everything from the Autopsy/Coroner report..... :D


#68    Antilles

Antilles

    NCC-1701

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,205 posts
  • Joined:23 Jul 2011
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:2nd star from the left

Posted 07 June 2012 - 12:54 PM

View Postregi, on 07 June 2012 - 12:09 PM, said:

I just think that it was MOST LIKELY an accidental death.

That law enforcement was corrupt isn't evidence that Todd's death was glossed over.

No, it wsn't an accidental death. She didn't accidentally climb 200 something stairs in shoes that showed no wear then start up a 12 cylinder car that neighbors didn't hear then accidentally die.

Didn't happen that way.


#69    JonathanVonErich

JonathanVonErich

    Telekinetic

  • Banned
  • 7,519 posts
  • Joined:19 Jul 2009
  • Gender:Not Selected

Posted 07 June 2012 - 03:20 PM

I have read 3 books about the corruption in Los Angeles in the 30's, 40's and 50's ( I've shared the titles somewhere in this thread ), and it's very well documented that back then every police departments in the city were full of corrupt officers, men having ties with the Underworld, men who had a lot to hide, etc. My point is: it's very difficult to trust any autopsy/coroner report from that era, sad but true, that's how I feel. It's even more difficult to trust the report when you know that Thelma allegedly had problems with the Underworld, and that a lot of men working for LAPD or other departments had ties to the mob.

I think a second autopsy should have been done, just to have a second opinion, but sadly Thelma's body was cremated shortly after her funerals.

I have found a website where you can buy a copy of the coroner's inquest for 35$ + shipping. That's a little strange. http://www.celebritycollectables.com/

Strange fact: In the film Monkey Business, actor Groucho Marx told her, "You're a woman who's been getting nothing but dirty breaks.  Well we can clean and tighten your brakes, but you'll have to stay in the garage all night."

Edited by JonathanVonErich, 07 June 2012 - 03:31 PM.


#70    regi

regi

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,110 posts
  • Joined:28 May 2012
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Texas

Posted 07 June 2012 - 04:52 PM

View PostJonathanVonErich, on 07 June 2012 - 12:54 PM, said:

True, but it's good evidence that you shouldn't trust everything from the Autopsy/Coroner report..... :D

I never rely entirely on a report from a medical examiner for several reasons, but I consider such findings credible until I know of other credible evidence which would contradict the findings.


#71    regi

regi

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,110 posts
  • Joined:28 May 2012
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Texas

Posted 07 June 2012 - 05:00 PM

View PostAntilles, on 07 June 2012 - 12:54 PM, said:

No, it wsn't an accidental death. She didn't accidentally climb 200 something stairs in shoes that showed no wear then start up a 12 cylinder car that neighbors didn't hear then accidentally die.

Didn't happen that way.

She certainly didn't accidentally climb the stairs. Someone who's been drinking can demonstrate fierce determination.

Re: her shoes...they must have shown some sort of wear if she'd been wearing them all eve. She didn't walk miles, for God's sake. How much wear could be expected? (I don't even know where this info comes from.)

Re: the neighbors... they apparently didn't hear a murder, either.

Edited by regi, 07 June 2012 - 05:01 PM.


#72    regi

regi

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,110 posts
  • Joined:28 May 2012
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Texas

Posted 07 June 2012 - 05:29 PM

View PostJonathanVonErich, on 07 June 2012 - 03:20 PM, said:

I have read 3 books about the corruption in Los Angeles in the 30's, 40's and 50's ( I've shared the titles somewhere in this thread ), and it's very well documented that back then every police departments in the city were full of corrupt officers, men having ties with the Underworld, men who had a lot to hide, etc. My point is: it's very difficult to trust any autopsy/coroner report from that era, sad but true, that's how I feel. It's even more difficult to trust the report when you know that Thelma allegedly had problems with the Underworld, and that a lot of men working for LAPD or other departments had ties to the mob.

I think a second autopsy should have been done, just to have a second opinion, but sadly Thelma's body was cremated shortly after her funerals.

I have found a website where you can buy a copy of the coroner's inquest for 35$ + shipping. That's a little strange. http://www.celebritycollectables.com/

Strange fact: In the film Monkey Business, actor Groucho Marx told her, "You're a woman who's been getting nothing but dirty breaks.  Well we can clean and tighten your brakes, but you'll have to stay in the garage all night."

Yes, I have no doubt that there were police (and other officials) who were corrupt and had ties to the mob...and even if Todd did have problems with the mob, it's still not evidence that they killed her, and/or that officials were involved in a cover-up.
I'm sure we've all seen other cases where there was more than one person who had motive and/or opportunity (or no verifiable alibi) to commit a crime, but that's not evidence that they did.
Hell, maybe the maid did it! Maybe it was someone off the radar. However unlikely that might seem to be, I certainly don't know.

Re: the autopsy report...I would think that all of the case related documents should be available to California residents.

Yes, that's a strange coincidence about the movie line...


#73    Antilles

Antilles

    NCC-1701

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,205 posts
  • Joined:23 Jul 2011
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:2nd star from the left

Posted 08 June 2012 - 11:30 AM

View Postregi, on 07 June 2012 - 05:00 PM, said:

She certainly didn't accidentally climb the stairs. Someone who's been drinking can demonstrate fierce determination.

Re: her shoes...they must have shown some sort of wear if she'd been wearing them all eve. She didn't walk miles, for God's sake. How much wear could be expected? (I don't even know where this info comes from.)

Re: the neighbors... they apparently didn't hear a murder, either.

Then I suggest you review all of the info that Jon and I have posted on this topic.


#74    JonathanVonErich

JonathanVonErich

    Telekinetic

  • Banned
  • 7,519 posts
  • Joined:19 Jul 2009
  • Gender:Not Selected

Posted 08 June 2012 - 12:07 PM

I don't blame Regi for being skeptical, after all there's no smoking gun in this case, no definitive evidences that Thelma was murdered.

However when you look closely at what happened shortly before her death, the events leading to her death, how she was found, etc., in my opinion it's clear that murder is a more logical scenario than suicide or accidental death.


#75    regi

regi

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,110 posts
  • Joined:28 May 2012
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Texas

Posted 08 June 2012 - 12:38 PM

If a credible source of info is available, please direct me to it.
I've reviewed the info presented in this thread, and I don't find what I consider credible sources re: whether or not there was wear shown on the soles of the shoes...just that there was no dirt.
Regardless, I don't know if that proves anything, anyway.
In a blog, there's a photo- apparently from a newspaper clipping which shows the soles of the shoes and the caption beneath the photo reads that investigators were checking for cement dust, not wear and tear.

What I said about the maid, I wasn't serious. I would have called out the butler if I knew Todd had had one. Actually, a better person would have been the driver...after all, he was the last known person to see Todd alive, which brings up (I think) an interesting question...
If Thelma was in fear of anyone, why would she decline the usual escort to her apartment? (Coincidence noted that the one time she declines his offer, is the one time she should have accepted.)

I haven't come to a strong conclusion about this case, but I do disagree with what some consider supporting evidence of a homicide.
I think she could have walked up those steps. it's not impossible...that's why they're there (hehehe, sorry if offensive) and I don't think that the condition of her shoes is evidence that she didn't.
It's a difference of opinion, that's all.





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users