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Sumerian DNA


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#1    He Who Thinks

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 07:50 PM

As you can probably tell I'm new to this topic. As far as I know we don't have any actual Sumerian skeletons to examine, but we have modern people to compare with. Please do correct me if I'm wrong.

What I'm wondering is do we know what the DNA of the Sumerians were made of? Also, do we have any idea through this where they may have come from?

Thanks for your help.


#2    Abramelin

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 07:57 PM

View PostHe Who Thinks, on 30 July 2011 - 07:50 PM, said:

As you can probably tell I'm new to this topic. As far as I know we don't have any actual Sumerian skeletons to examine, but we have modern people to compare with. Please do correct me if I'm wrong.

What I'm wondering is do we know what the DNA of the Sumerians were made of? Also, do we have any idea through this where they may have come from?

Thanks for your help.

Google "Magyar" (= Hungarian) and "Sumerian".

Many Hungarians think they were the ancestors - or related to them - of the Sumerians, based on language and thousands of years old inscriptions in Hungary that resemble the most ancient (=> before Sumerian cuneiform script)  Sumerian script.


#3    He Who Thinks

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 08:00 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 30 July 2011 - 07:57 PM, said:

Google "Magyar" (= Hungarian) and "Sumerian".

Many Hungarians think they were the ancestors - or related to them - of the Sumerians, based on language and thousands of years old inscriptions in Hungary that resemble the most ancient (=> before Sumerian cuneiform script)  Sumerian script.

Thank you for the suggestion. That's a long way away to be related, though I suppose they could have come from any direction. I hadn't heard of this belief before. Thanks!

Edit: What if the early people that eventually became the Sumerians, inhabited all of that land. From Iran up through Europe?

Edited by He Who Thinks, 30 July 2011 - 08:01 PM.


#4    cormac mac airt

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 08:39 PM

Quote

What I'm wondering is do we know what the DNA of the Sumerians were made of?

Sumerian pottery and agriculture appears to have originated in Samarra and further points north in the Fertile Crescent, from at least c.5500 BC. Earliest evidence for agricultural farming (einkorn and emmer wheat c.7800 BC and 8800 BC respectively) possibly originating in the area between Nevali Cori and Cayonu, Turkey. Nothing here would suggest an origin outside of the Fertile Crescent. Also, DNA of the area would tend to suggest a Y Chromosome Haplogroup J2 connection.

Einkorn

Emmer

cormac

The city and citizens, which you yesterday described to us in fiction, we will now transfer to the world of reality. It shall be the ancient city of Athens, and we will suppose that the citizens whom you imagined, were our veritable ancestors, of whom the priest spoke; they will perfectly harmonise, and there will be no inconsistency in saying that the citizens of your republic are these ancient Athenians. --  Plato's Timaeus

#5    Mike D boy

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 11:34 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 30 July 2011 - 07:57 PM, said:

Google "Magyar" (= Hungarian) and "Sumerian".

Many Hungarians think they were the ancestors - or related to them - of the Sumerians, based on language and thousands of years old inscriptions in Hungary that resemble the most ancient (=> before Sumerian cuneiform script)  Sumerian script.

Turkic nationalists along with Pan-Turanian organizations promote the racial unification of all Turanian peoples: Hungarians as well Turks and Turkmenis. They felt Sumerians are the ancestral foundation of the Turkic peoples. Included in the Turanian hypothetical family are Finns and Estonians, plus the Sami people and even the Basques or Berbers in North Africa (though they speak a Semitic language). All peoples of Uralic and Altaic linguistic groups are thought to have Turkic descent, may include Siberians, Mongolians, Uygurs, Koreans, and even the Japanese with the indigenous Ainu, some Malayans, and Southeast Asians: Thais, Cambodians and Laotians.

Other theories suggest Sumerians are the ancestors of Semitic peoples such as Arabs, Assyrians and Hebrews (the Jews) before mass migrations outward to the Fertile Crescent region and across the Arabian peninsula. And there's the Indo-European origin hypothesis still promoted in some circles in anthropology: the Sumerians lead to the Persians or Iranians, the "Aryans" later became Indians, and proto-Slavic peoples like Scythians in the Caucasus region, also inhabited by the Hittites and Anatolians, whom forefathered present-day Greeks and Armenians. Perhaps Sumerians are alike the dark-skinned non Indo-European Dravidians of Southern India and Sri Lanka.

:innocent: The Truth is Out There - the X Files. :alien:

#6    Abramelin

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Posted 31 July 2011 - 12:02 AM

View PostHe Who Thinks, on 30 July 2011 - 08:00 PM, said:

Thank you for the suggestion. That's a long way away to be related, though I suppose they could have come from any direction. I hadn't heard of this belief before. Thanks!

Edit: What if the early people that eventually became the Sumerians, inhabited all of that land. From Iran up through Europe?

Not saying it is true, but it is an interesting idea.

Here you go:


http://www.magyar-me...guage/ak51.html

http://www.pestiside...o-this-italian/


#7    minera

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Posted 31 July 2011 - 12:25 AM

View PostHe Who Thinks, on 30 July 2011 - 08:00 PM, said:

Thank you for the suggestion. That's a long way away to be related, though I suppose they could have come from any direction. I hadn't heard of this belief before. Thanks!

Edit: What if the early people that eventually became the Sumerians, inhabited all of that land. From Iran up through Europe?

The Magyars were several tribes who originated from Mesopotamia and some think from the city of UR. Language similarities as well as blood typing are used to trace regions and origins of ancestors.They migrated to the Carpathian basin and united under Arpad.They used the runic alphabet until King Steven united the country as a Catholic nation, but originally the Magyars worshiped the sun and were fierce warriors and horsemen. Even today we speak Magyar and use a phonetic alphabet where each sound has a symbol.


#8    Mike D boy

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Posted 31 July 2011 - 01:10 AM

The Magyars, like the Sumerians, have an unique ethnological origin to the Asian continent, but contributed to the development of western civilization way into Europe. We came to ponder if the Northern edges of Asia is the origin of mankind, not limited to east Africa or even the most isolated human societies (until two centuries ago)  of Australian Aborigines or New Guinea, and the Pacific islands like Micronesia and Melanesia, somehow thought to descended from "Australoid" Indian and Indonesian ancestors migrated there in the last ice age. Asia is where China, the largest and most populous nation on earth is located, and they been around for over 5,000 years and the ancestral peoples in Xinjiang may produced Magyars, but the Xin Uygurs are more connected to Mongols, Kazakhs and other Central Asian peoples than east Asian neighbors like the Han Ren or Mandarin Chinese. The Magyars' cousins may been the Huns of the Roman era, led by their leader Attila, and Huns are thought to be Finno-Ugric despite historians identified them as "Germanic".

:innocent: The Truth is Out There - the X Files. :alien:

#9    Harte

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Posted 31 July 2011 - 02:31 AM

View PostHe Who Thinks, on 30 July 2011 - 07:50 PM, said:

As you can probably tell I'm new to this topic. As far as I know we don't have any actual Sumerian skeletons to examine, but we have modern people to compare with. Please do correct me if I'm wrong.

What I'm wondering is do we know what the DNA of the Sumerians were made of? Also, do we have any idea through this where they may have come from?

Thanks for your help.
This might help:
Y-chromosome and mtDNA polymorphisms in Iraq,a crossroad of the early human dispersal and of post-Neolithic migrations

N. Al-Zahery,a,b O. Semino,a G. Benuzzi,a C. Magri,a G. Passarino,cA. Torroni,a and A.S. Santachiara-Benerecettia,*


Harte

Edited by Harte, 31 July 2011 - 02:31 AM.

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#10    cormac mac airt

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Posted 31 July 2011 - 03:39 AM

View PostHarte, on 31 July 2011 - 02:31 AM, said:



And then take that and compare with the following articles concerning the Magyar's and one can see that there is no correlation whatsoever.

MtDNA and Y chromosome polymorphisms in Hungary: inferences from the palaeolithic, Neolithic and Uralic influences on the modern Hungarian gene pool

Y-Chromosome Analysis of Ancient Hungarian and Two Modern Hungarian Speaking Populations from the Carpathian Basin

cormac

Edited by cormac mac airt, 31 July 2011 - 04:07 AM.

The city and citizens, which you yesterday described to us in fiction, we will now transfer to the world of reality. It shall be the ancient city of Athens, and we will suppose that the citizens whom you imagined, were our veritable ancestors, of whom the priest spoke; they will perfectly harmonise, and there will be no inconsistency in saying that the citizens of your republic are these ancient Athenians. --  Plato's Timaeus

#11    Penemue

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Posted 31 July 2011 - 03:40 AM

View PostHe Who Thinks, on 30 July 2011 - 07:50 PM, said:

As you can probably tell I'm new to this topic. As far as I know we don't have any actual Sumerian skeletons to examine, but we have modern people to compare with. Please do correct me if I'm wrong.

What I'm wondering is do we know what the DNA of the Sumerians were made of? Also, do we have any idea through this where they may have come from?

Thanks for your help.


Thanks for posting this and getting this thread going. I didn't know this was one of the things I was looking into until I followed some of the replies...


#12    lostinthecrowd

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Posted 31 July 2011 - 09:50 AM

I for one think its very interesting that we have never found any remains of a Sumerian.  Even fossilised.  We can find eggs or birds that are millions and billions years old but nothing from this civilisation.

Creeepy


#13    Abramelin

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Posted 31 July 2011 - 12:34 PM

View Postlostinthecrowd, on 31 July 2011 - 09:50 AM, said:

I for one think its very interesting that we have never found any remains of a Sumerian.  Even fossilised.  We can find eggs or birds that are millions and billions years old but nothing from this civilisation.

Creeepy




"Therefore now it may be said with confidence that ancient Sumerian is not a linguistic isolate. It belongs to the australoid/ austric group of languages. They belong to this group because the ancient tribal people of Indian west coast also belonged to the same group of people, and it is from here that they must have migrated to Mesopotamia. Both the Australoid and Austric type are found in India. There are clear reasons to rule out any other location for the Sumerian migration: Western India is geographically close to Southern Mesopotamia as compared to south East Asia and Australia and there are no know instances of civilization east of the Indus valley around five thousand years ago. Such evidence has been found in the Indus valley.

The second study concerns physical examination of Sumerian skulls. Buxton and Rice have found that of 26 Sumerian crania they examined 22 were Australoid or Austrics. Further According to Penniman who studied skulls from other Sumerian sites, the Australoid Eurafrican, Austric and Armenoid were the "racial" types associated with the Sumerians. Here is Penniman's description of the Austric type found at Sumer:

"These people are of medium stature, with complexion and hair like those of the Eurafrican, to which race they are allied with dark eyes, and oval faces, broad noses, rather feeble jaws, and slight sinewy bodies."

This description also closely describes the regal person seen on a famous clay tablet from the Indus Valley. This same tribe in an evolved version undoubtedly established the Indus civilization as well as the Sumerian one after the submergence of their coastal cities. In North-western India they would have encountered Neolithic people of Indo-European origin with which manpower they established the Indus cities. An analysis of skeletal remains from Indus valley confirms this mixture. Both the IndoSumerian-austric language must then have persisted side by side as in Mesopotamia with the official language of the rulers being IndoSumerian-austric. Just as in Mesopotamia, ancient Sumerian was replaced by the language of the majority(Akkadians) in the Indus valley it would have been replaced eventually by an Indo-Aryan language. At what precise moment in history this occurred is not certain but most probably the Sumerian language disappeared from India by 2000 BC. In this latter case there was no question of preserving it for ritual purposes either. This is because the IndoSumerian-Austric language never developed as a fully written language in India to inscribe full texts. In any case, a better Indo-Aryan language with its own full-fledged script soom emerged probably because of Hittite influences in the Indian sub-continent around that time."



Article Source: http://EzineArticles.com/311587


#14    Abramelin

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Posted 31 July 2011 - 12:48 PM

Btw, this topic has been discussed before:

http://www.unexplain...c=188901&st=120


#15    Abramelin

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Posted 31 July 2011 - 01:04 PM

View Postminera, on 31 July 2011 - 12:25 AM, said:

The Magyars were several tribes who originated from Mesopotamia and some think from the city of UR. Language similarities as well as blood typing are used to trace regions and origins of ancestors.They migrated to the Carpathian basin and united under Arpad.They used the runic alphabet until King Steven united the country as a Catholic nation, but originally the Magyars worshiped the sun and were fierce warriors and horsemen. Even today we speak Magyar and use a phonetic alphabet where each sound has a symbol.

Hi Minera,

I had a collegue from Hungary, Tibor, who told me all this, and even gave me a book (in English) about the official Hungarian history.

But from what I found here and there on the internet is that there are many Hungarians who claim their ancestors were thousands of years earlier in Europe than officially thought (= your story).

I think there is a lot more to read about that, most is in the Magyar language, but alas, I can't read it.

+++

EDIT:

Dang, NOT your story, lol ! It's all but the Mesopotamian thing...

.

.

Edited by Abramelin, 31 July 2011 - 01:15 PM.





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