Jump to content




Welcome to Unexplained Mysteries! Please sign in or create an account to start posting and to access a host of extra features.


* * * * - 3 votes

Demon summoning.


  • Please log in to reply
116 replies to this topic

#106    Saturday

Saturday

    Alien Embryo

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 26 posts
  • Joined:06 Sep 2013
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:North of Legend, right at Mystery, and ten steps toward the Twilight Zone

  • Information is not knowledge. ~Albert Einstein

Posted 07 September 2013 - 03:21 AM

View PostBrian Topp, on 07 September 2013 - 03:09 AM, said:

I have degrees in photography, video editing and sound editing so yes, I do call fake because i am an expert. Using the "call it fake" is an excuse since, again no one has presented any evidence, hell if it was possible some one WOULD of done it live, on tv.

Wow, no, I said you need to find a video that you believe is real HOWEVER if you think all are fake then you will find none. If you are truly searching for a real video then by all means- I'm sure you'll find one.

There are real videos out there, Brian. I'm glad you're using your degrees to sort them out.

And I call BS on 'someone would have done it live on tv'. Television is not the 'end all' to evidence of any kind. The reality shows are not real, the supernatural shows are not real. TV is only going to show what is scripted. Not every ghost hunt yields evidence, yet on TV they all do. That is because TV is a profit business and used for the flash, bang, pop. Surely your expectation of evidence extends beyond scripted TV.

Like I said, it's good you're using your degrees to find true evidence. I wish more people would do that.


#107    Brian Topp

Brian Topp

    Dynamic Interactions Coordinator Of Paradoxes.

  • Member
  • 3,025 posts
  • Joined:10 Sep 2008
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:The Year next Tuesday!

  • My youtube channel, Has horror stories and skits.
    https://www.youtube.com/user/TheCreepyCorridor

Posted 07 September 2013 - 03:25 AM

View PostSaturday, on 07 September 2013 - 03:21 AM, said:

Wow, no, I said you need to find a video that you believe is real HOWEVER if you think all are fake then you will find none. If you are truly searching for a real video then by all means- I'm sure you'll find one.

There are real videos out there, Brian. I'm glad you're using your degrees to sort them out.

And I call BS on 'someone would have done it live on tv'. Television is not the 'end all' to evidence of any kind. The reality shows are not real, the supernatural shows are not real. TV is only going to show what is scripted. Not every ghost hunt yields evidence, yet on TV they all do. That is because TV is a profit business and used for the flash, bang, pop. Surely your expectation of evidence extends beyond scripted TV.

Like I said, it's good you're using your degrees to find true evidence. I wish more people would do that.

Let's put it as, we agree to disagree.

It is easier to claim it is paranormal than taking the hard route and find out what really happened.


#108    Etu Malku

Etu Malku

    Paranormal Investigator

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 816 posts
  • Joined:03 Aug 2012
  • Gender:Male

  • Mercuræn

Posted 07 September 2013 - 05:20 PM

I've been a ritualist for a long time, been involved in dozens upon dozens of evocations, discussed in length with highly intelligent scholars in & out of the occult world, we all agree that summoning something supernatural takes place in the subjective/imagination not in the objective/material world.

I've already explained 'how' this occurs, but if you examine 'why' it only occurs in the subjective that too would put to rest any romantic notion of conjuring Beelzebub in some circle fumigated with frankincense and myrrh.

Yet none of this deters me and others from continuing to evoke and invoke, create sigils, servitors, egregores, or talk with our Dæmon/Higher Self. Simply knowing the truth behind something doesn't negate it, it actually empowers it!

Tarkhem Productions
   IAMTHATIAMNOT

#109    Saturday

Saturday

    Alien Embryo

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 26 posts
  • Joined:06 Sep 2013
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:North of Legend, right at Mystery, and ten steps toward the Twilight Zone

  • Information is not knowledge. ~Albert Einstein

Posted 07 September 2013 - 06:03 PM

Etu- I appreciate your personal experience and your thoughtful reply.

I do not participate in rituals. I used to, but something came through- twice. The first time the 'thing' remained in a house for several months. Over the years, its activity has diminished to the point where I believe it is no longer there. The second time something came through it became such an ordeal that one person ended up hospitalized.

We base our beliefs on our life experiences. Yours are different than mine. My experiences are such that these things impacted many lives.

No, this is not a romantic 'oh gee lets have fun and call on baal and see what's going on' and then all the sudden there's baal.

No, what I'm saying is that demons will manifest if it suits their needs. The fact that they do not manifest to your during your rituals means they do not need to. Either they are already there, or they have no use for you. I do not claim to know the particulars of your ritual so I cannot offer any information on your experience.

I disagree with your belief that it is imaginative. That is your truth. My truth is that I've seen and dealt with these things- not through my personal imagination, but through experiences over several years that are shared with other people, some who are family and some who are not.

I wish you the best of luck and continued success with your rituals. They sound like they are a fascinating experience.


#110    Etu Malku

Etu Malku

    Paranormal Investigator

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 816 posts
  • Joined:03 Aug 2012
  • Gender:Male

  • Mercuræn

Posted 07 September 2013 - 07:10 PM

View PostSaturday, on 07 September 2013 - 06:03 PM, said:

Etu- I appreciate your personal experience and your thoughtful reply.
Thank you and I respectfully acknowledge your understanding of this topic.

Quote

I do not participate in rituals. I used to, but something came through- twice. The first time the 'thing' remained in a house for several months. Over the years, its activity has diminished to the point where I believe it is no longer there. The second time something came through it became such an ordeal that one person ended up hospitalized.
By "something came through" what do you mean? Came through what? From where?

Quote

We base our beliefs on our life experiences. Yours are different than mine. My experiences are such that these things impacted many lives.
I base my beliefs on my knowledge, I confirm these beliefs through my experiences, and yes experience is subjective.

Quote

No, this is not a romantic 'oh gee lets have fun and call on baal and see what's going on' and then all the sudden there's baal.
I'm not using the word 'romantic' lightly here, more in the way of "Imaginative but impractical". Creating the necessary psychodrama that will allow the temporal Lobe to become dis-inhibited is no easy task, no one is going to light a few candles and recite some Enochian words and have Baal materialize. This is a gradual process one that takes preparation and mastery of trance induction, and even then Baal isn't materializing into the objective universe, he may materialize as a hallucination though.

Quote

No, what I'm saying is that demons will manifest if it suits their needs. The fact that they do not manifest to your during your rituals means they do not need to. Either they are already there, or they have no use for you. I do not claim to know the particulars of your ritual so I cannot offer any information on your experience.
The problem I have with this is that 'demons' don't have 'needs' to be suited, they are archetypal imagery in our unconsciousness, it is We who empower them, create them, re-define them, they are not separate intelligent entities deciding on things for themselves.

Quote

I disagree with your belief that it is imaginative. That is your truth. My truth is that I've seen and dealt with these things- not through my personal imagination, but through experiences over several years that are shared with other people, some who are family and some who are not.
Getting back to hallucinating, Tibetan and Hindu Buddhism have what is called the Dance of Maya, it is the idea that what we perceive is limited by our senses and that what we experience is probably not what is objectively real. I believe Quantum Mechanics does make a good argument towards this understanding of non-permanence of experience.

In sum, the process by which 'magick' occurs is through creating a change inside one's Self, outwardly projecting this Will and creating change in the fabric of the Universe (Quantum Theory also substantiates this) . . . my metaphysical diagnosis of your experience is that you and the others did indeed create such a change inside that you developed a psychosis in the form of believing there was something in your home, almost a mass hysteria. The 'entity' eventually left because your rational mind finally took completely over and and this all became quite a bore.

Quote

I wish you the best of luck and continued success with your rituals. They sound like they are a fascinating experience.
I thank you again and too wish you great experiences, and it is a pleasure to discuss this with you.

Tarkhem Productions
   IAMTHATIAMNOT

#111    Avallaine

Avallaine

    Ectoplasmic Residue

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 174 posts
  • Joined:07 Mar 2010
  • Gender:Female

Posted 07 September 2013 - 11:38 PM

View PostSkepticalB, on 05 September 2013 - 03:09 AM, said:

The things you're calling lesser and greater magic, is just psychology.


Why...yes, actually:

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. ~Arthur C. Clarke

Any sufficiently advanced psychology IS magic. ~unknown



[P.S. - If anyone here knows who came up with that particular corollary to Clarke's Third Law, please let me know; I've just failed to find it by Google.]


#112    Saturday

Saturday

    Alien Embryo

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 26 posts
  • Joined:06 Sep 2013
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:North of Legend, right at Mystery, and ten steps toward the Twilight Zone

  • Information is not knowledge. ~Albert Einstein

Posted 08 September 2013 - 12:13 AM

View PostEtu Malku, on 07 September 2013 - 07:10 PM, said:

Thank you and I respectfully acknowledge your understanding of this topic.

By "something came through" what do you mean? Came through what? From where?

I base my beliefs on my knowledge, I confirm these beliefs through my experiences, and yes experience is subjective.

I'm not using the word 'romantic' lightly here, more in the way of "Imaginative but impractical". Creating the necessary psychodrama that will allow the temporal Lobe to become dis-inhibited is no easy task, no one is going to light a few candles and recite some Enochian words and have Baal materialize. This is a gradual process one that takes preparation and mastery of trance induction, and even then Baal isn't materializing into the objective universe, he may materialize as a hallucination though.

The problem I have with this is that 'demons' don't have 'needs' to be suited, they are archetypal imagery in our unconsciousness, it is We who empower them, create them, re-define them, they are not separate intelligent entities deciding on things for themselves.

Getting back to hallucinating, Tibetan and Hindu Buddhism have what is called the Dance of Maya, it is the idea that what we perceive is limited by our senses and that what we experience is probably not what is objectively real. I believe Quantum Mechanics does make a good argument towards this understanding of non-permanence of experience.

In sum, the process by which 'magick' occurs is through creating a change inside one's Self, outwardly projecting this Will and creating change in the fabric of the Universe (Quantum Theory also substantiates this) . . . my metaphysical diagnosis of your experience is that you and the others did indeed create such a change inside that you developed a psychosis in the form of believing there was something in your home, almost a mass hysteria. The 'entity' eventually left because your rational mind finally took completely over and and this all became quite a bore.

I thank you again and too wish you great experiences, and it is a pleasure to discuss this with you.

The events I'm talking about happened in two different houses.

In fact they happened on two different continents.

And they are decades apart.

The first instance was dabbling. To give a brief background: My friend and I were 14 yrs old (this was 1979). We had been messing with the occult for a few years. There were no 'magick' books available. No Barnes and Noble, no Hastings (at least not in our town) and certainly no Internet. The local library carried NOTHING in the way of witchcraft and/or books on the occult. We had found old 'occult' books in an abandoned school. Why they were there is beyond me. (We also found porn comics in the same building).

But anyway, back to 1979. So we're messing around. No candles, no pentagram, no incense, nothing... just us at 3:30 on some random sunny afternoon messing around with the occult in my dad's living room (he was at work so it was just my friend and I). Anyway, so we're both reading the chants in this book (It was a 'summoning for answers' chant- or at least that's what was at the top of the page). Suddenly, there are some noises upstairs. Nothing too dramatic, just noises. My friend and I look at each other and stop with the chant. More noises... kind of like cabinet doors opening and closing, light knocks... it really sounds like someone is upstairs. It wasn't particularly scary, just odd. Next we hear water running. We both decide to go upstairs and see what's going on. So, up we go. We check all around- nope, no one there. We check the bathroom and the faucet is running full blast. We shut if off and go back downstairs. Not two seconds later, we hear the faucet turn on again. Back up we go and we shut it off. More noises... so we just leave and go across the street to my friend's house.

Later on that day, my mom comes and picks me up to go home (lived with my mom at the time). I didn't tell anyone about the books (my friend kept them with her) and I didn't tell anyone about the spell/chant things we did (I never talked to anyone about stuff like that). But, from that point on, my dad- who lived alone in the house- complained several times of being awakened by noises in the attic and the bathroom and kitchen faucets turning themselves on. He also complained about coming home from work to find the bathtub full of water. He said one day he came home and all of his clothes were on the floor in his closet- like someone had pulled them off the hangars. To this day, I have never told him what happened or why his tranquil, normally quiet house got all disruptive. It was a very clear sequence of events. He had lived in the house for 4 years at that point. There had never been any complaints of noises, odd happenings, etc. Even now he'll still talk about how weird things got for a while there... Is this dramatic? No, its not dramatic. But, we had messed with something and something unintended had happened. Also, I did not live in the house. I did not experience all of the things that happened. It was like a light switch. Quiet one day and disruptive the next.

I disagree that this was all in MY head. I did not live there. There was no psychosis for me to form. There was no mass hysteria. My friend and I messed with something we didn't understand. We left my dad's house. My dad lived the effects of our experiments.

I joined the Air Force when I was 20 yrs old (1985) and moved away from the hometown. I've never lived there since. My dad's experiences ended perhaps 5 or 6 years ago. I don't know the exact date.

The other experience I referenced is complicated and very personal. Perhaps I will relay it when I have more time to jot it down.

Meanwhile, its quite a coincidence that you've mentioned Tibetan Buddhism. I've studied Tibetan Buddhism- I find Tulpas particularly fascinating. Taking the Dance of the Maya one step further and Tulpas extend the thought into actual form. Tulpas become tangible, 3 dimensional, material objects.

About demons. I disagree with your theory. There are things in this world that we do not control. There are things that exist outside of ourselves. Demons are but one instance of many things existing outside of our 'realm'. I have studied physics for many years. Physics supports the theory of dimensions and fluid time. Quantum mechanics and physics do not limit the universe to merely ourselves and processes created in our mind. Physics specifically supports alternate realities and moving within those realities.  Your argument that Quantum Mechanics supports the conclusion of 'non-permanence of experience' is not an exhaustive conclusion. In fact, Quantum Mechanics supports the theory of macro- matter influencing micro- matter and vice versa. They are not mutually exclusive, but are part of the same theory. Quantum mechanics also supports matter through matter. The micro- matter of a solid object can be arranged in such a way that another solid object would be able to pass through. For instance this would enable someone to walk 'through' a wall. Or to get all Star Trekie- we could beam ourselves around the universe. But to be more serious: These theories support particles interacting with each other. This does not exclude particles interacting with each other over and around 'time' or even over and around 'dimensions'. Physics and quantum mechanics both support the theory of 'entities' and parallel existences interacting with our reality.

Thank you, Etu, I do enjoy our discussions.


#113    ZOD

ZOD

    Future Leader of Earth

  • Member
  • 4,983 posts
  • Joined:02 Aug 2013
  • Gender:Not Selected

Posted 08 September 2013 - 05:31 PM

View PostAvallaine, on 07 September 2013 - 11:38 PM, said:

Why...yes, actually:

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. ~Arthur C. Clarke

Any sufficiently advanced psychology IS magic. ~unknown



[P.S. - If anyone here knows who came up with that particular corollary to Clarke's Third Law, please let me know; I've just failed to find it by Google.]

Right, my argument was why call it something other than the science that it is.



Quote

   Etu Malku




I didn't say this earlier but given the way things tend to go on message boards i think it should be done, I wanted to extend gratitude on keeping our discussion civil, and not taking offense to my skepticism.

Battle isn't wordplay.  It's skill and precision.  Get it? I'm better.


#114    Avallaine

Avallaine

    Ectoplasmic Residue

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 174 posts
  • Joined:07 Mar 2010
  • Gender:Female

Posted 08 September 2013 - 08:14 PM

View PostSkepticalB, on 08 September 2013 - 05:31 PM, said:

Right, my argument was why call it something other than the science that it is.

Because, while they overlap a great deal, the subjects are still not directly equivalent.  Psychology is just the most recent name for some impressive advances in a loose body of knowledge and practices that have existed for millenia: the study of human nature and thought.  The field of magic encompasses not only psychology, but also folklore, comparative religion, meditation, creativity, philosophy, as well as explorations into the possibility of the interaction between the human mind and the physical world in ways not currently within the reach of our measuring instruments.  In addition, magic deals more with practical applications of psychology rather than theoretical understanding for the sake of pure knowledge.


#115    Himawari69

Himawari69

    Apparition

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 304 posts
  • Joined:06 Feb 2013
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Harbor city

  • No matter how hard I grip the crown, in the end,it won't matter, because I will not die a queen

Posted 08 September 2013 - 09:34 PM

I wouldn't do it or try if I were you. But think about this. Your a demon just chillin and hanging out with other demons. Then out of nowhere you get sucked in someones room. The dude that summoned you asks you if he'll is real(rather nervously). Your reaction? You get mad and starts smashing. I can only imagine how a demon would act when summoned just to be asked that sort of question.


#116    Etu Malku

Etu Malku

    Paranormal Investigator

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 816 posts
  • Joined:03 Aug 2012
  • Gender:Male

  • Mercuræn

Posted 09 September 2013 - 01:07 AM

View PostHimawari69, on 08 September 2013 - 09:34 PM, said:

I wouldn't do it or try if I were you. But think about this. Your a demon just chillin and hanging out with other demons. Then out of nowhere you get sucked in someones room. The dude that summoned you asks you if he'll is real(rather nervously). Your reaction? You get mad and starts smashing. I can only imagine how a demon would act when summoned just to be asked that sort of question.
Yep . . . that's how it works :blink:

Tarkhem Productions
   IAMTHATIAMNOT

#117    ZOD

ZOD

    Future Leader of Earth

  • Member
  • 4,983 posts
  • Joined:02 Aug 2013
  • Gender:Not Selected

Posted 09 September 2013 - 10:47 PM

View PostAvallaine, on 08 September 2013 - 08:14 PM, said:

Because, while they overlap a great deal, the subjects are still not directly equivalent.  Psychology is just the most recent name for some impressive advances in a loose body of knowledge and practices that have existed for millenia: the study of human nature and thought.  The field of magic encompasses not only psychology, but also folklore, comparative religion, meditation, creativity, philosophy, as well as explorations into the possibility of the interaction between the human mind and the physical world in ways not currently within the reach of our measuring instruments.  In addition, magic deals more with practical applications of psychology rather than theoretical understanding for the sake of pure knowledge.

Well that fair, psychology being a part of magic in your belief.

i dont buy into the rest of it, but I don't think its something to press, as yall haven't been evangelising or anything.  Just an agree to disagree time

Battle isn't wordplay.  It's skill and precision.  Get it? I'm better.





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users