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Edgar Mitchell UFO interview on Kerrang Radio


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#451    mcrom901

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Posted 10 October 2011 - 08:28 AM

View Postquillius, on 10 October 2011 - 08:14 AM, said:

I suppose it would depend if the evidence exists or/and has existed....

but all we have is conjecture in regards to whether the actual evidence exists or not...

View Postquillius, on 10 October 2011 - 08:14 AM, said:

it being available is a different ball game...

thrusting certain statements as being true wouldn't help that nonetheless, would it?

View Postquillius, on 10 October 2011 - 08:14 AM, said:

so not quite conjecture as this would be opinion based would it not?

i'm afraid without evidence that's all it would come down to? or one might opt to drag an appeal to authority in the face of absence of any evidence... but that doesn't mean we should dismiss it because of certain preconceptions at the same time...

A conjecture is a proposition that is unproven but is thought to be true and has not been disproven. - wiki


#452    quillius

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Posted 10 October 2011 - 08:38 AM

View Postpsyche101, on 10 October 2011 - 08:02 AM, said:

I cannot dismiss the "bull traders" comments that suggest to me his information could well be from a surrounding town, which to me would accurately describe someone who is "not necessarily local" and someone who would have a version of the Incident to share.

This is what I mean by a straight answer. Lord knows your efforts are very good, and have combed the interviews well, but still there is no definite proof that says "This information came from outside of Roswell". There are loose descriptions that could be taken two ways, I think on that basis we have to ask ourselves, "If Roswell was so top level, how could others know?" And he does say his information is limited to the Roswell incident.


Morning Psyche, I dont think you should get hung up on the 'bull traders' as he clearly seperates these in the context of that part of the interview.

here it is:

Dr. Mitchell: Well, in my father’s family, my father and my grandfather were cattle ranchers. They were bull traders. We personally knew all the ranchers. After my space flight, I had the privilege of being briefed by many of what I call the old timers who were not necessarily local but had been with military intelligence and wanted to pass on their stories related to Roswell before they passed away. They were under very, very strict security requirements, even under the threat of death, not to talk, but they wanted somebody to know before they passed on that it was a real fact. So I got it not only first-hand from the locals but military intelligence people too who had been a part of that event

the bolded sentence tells us not only first hand from the locals 'bull traders and ranchers' but ALSO from military intelligence people. I see him clearly talking about two sets of people again and once again highlighting 'NOT ONLY LOCAL' (capitals for emphasis not shouting :) )


View Postpsyche101, on 10 October 2011 - 08:02 AM, said:


Why yes indeed! You can identify som Old Timers?

ok I will hang myself (and probably Edgar while I am at it) :) In one of his interviews Edgar doesnt want to name names but says for anyone interested its out there, so here he is telling us he is not going to name names as these people confided in him to tell their story without implication. And as the honourable man he is, he is upholding that, even if it means he is viewed badly and not believed to an extent because he cannot name the people....(I mean come on, some people cannot stop debating about whether these contacts are local or not, let alone who they are - thats you and I Psyche by the way).

Macrel I believe is one of the people he spoke to. I will dig out my info and post links and so forth I just need to confirm a few more bits and pieces before sticking my neck on the line.


View Postpsyche101, on 10 October 2011 - 08:02 AM, said:


Haha, you better have!!

I hope you realise that comment was very much TIC for the benefit of others who present dodgy sources :D Not known you to lead me to a bad source to date.

Cheers.

dont worry I did, I realise how many sharks are swimmming in the water ready to bite :)

As for the intended recipient, as I said before, the site was not an issue here as its a transcript that is available in many places along with the actual audio....if the site Bee linked to was the only source then I see its relevance, however in this case it was not needed.  :tu:


#453    quillius

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Posted 10 October 2011 - 08:46 AM

View Postmcrom901, on 10 October 2011 - 08:28 AM, said:

but all we have is conjecture in regards to whether the actual evidence exists or not...

ok yes I agree, although I would add the interpretation of the 'evidence' isnt conjecture. What he is being told or/and shown is not conjecture. He has been shown photos, he claims to have seen evidence. So he is not voicing an opinion (conjecture) but he is stating what he belives to be fact. This leaves me with he is either being lied to/hoaxed or is being told the truth (not being given an opinion)

View Postmcrom901, on 10 October 2011 - 08:28 AM, said:


thrusting certain statements as being true wouldn't help that nonetheless, would it?
I think my above response covers this ?!?!

View Postmcrom901, on 10 October 2011 - 08:28 AM, said:


i'm afraid without evidence that's all it would come down to? or one might opt to drag an appeal to authority in the face of absence of any evidence... but that doesn't mean we should dismiss it because of certain preconceptions at the same time...

A conjecture is a proposition that is unproven but is thought to be true and has not been disproven. - wiki

The appeal to authority is and can be used as to Ed's belief of what he is being told. I fully agree with the comment we should not dismiss it because of certain preconceptions...of course this by default doesnt mean we should believe it either.  :tu:


#454    psyche101

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Posted 10 October 2011 - 10:12 PM

View Postquillius, on 10 October 2011 - 08:22 AM, said:

Hey Boony,
reading my post again it was not even an analogy as originally set out to put forward. All in all a very disjointed post but let me try again.
Anyhow, yes i agree its Ed's belief (if we ignore the 'seen evidence for' comment he made), what I think both Bee and I are trying to convey is that yes its belief on Ed's part but not on the people that have told him. He states clearly many times that these are people that were there and/or in the know. If Roswell did happen then these people would know which means they are either lying to Ed or telling the truth. This as opposed to him believing in their 'opinion' 'belief' 'conjecture' and so forth.


But Ed keeps saying they have told him. That means he has not been introduced to an Alien, or seen a spaceship, so it is still belief upon his part entirely, and with the people he got his information from, how do we know they are not embellishing the truth? Walter Haut left a deathbed testimony, yet Skyeagle says he got the craft wrong, and the craft that Walter Haut described could not possibly leave the debris field as described, so as soon as we look at such testimony, we are faced with yet more conundrums. There is no answers, only more questions. Therefore one has to consider that the information is not sound. We must remember that Ed also validates Bob Lazar, and I think that is very instrumental here with regards to his sources. He obviously sees no reason to check them himself.

Edited by psyche101, 10 October 2011 - 10:12 PM.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#455    psyche101

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Posted 10 October 2011 - 11:25 PM

View Postquillius, on 10 October 2011 - 08:38 AM, said:

Morning Psyche, I dont think you should get hung up on the 'bull traders' as he clearly seperates these in the context of that part of the interview.

here it is:

Dr. Mitchell: Well, in my father’s family, my father and my grandfather were cattle ranchers. They were bull traders. We personally knew all the ranchers. After my space flight, I had the privilege of being briefed by many of what I call the old timers who were not necessarily local but had been with military intelligence and wanted to pass on their stories related to Roswell before they passed away. They were under very, very strict security requirements, even under the threat of death, not to talk, but they wanted somebody to know before they passed on that it was a real fact. So I got it not only first-hand from the locals but military intelligence people too who had been a part of that event

the bolded sentence tells us not only first hand from the locals 'bull traders and ranchers' but ALSO from military intelligence people. I see him clearly talking about two sets of people again and once again highlighting 'NOT ONLY LOCAL' (capitals for emphasis not shouting :) )




ok I will hang myself (and probably Edgar while I am at it) :) In one of his interviews Edgar doesnt want to name names but says for anyone interested its out there, so here he is telling us he is not going to name names as these people confided in him to tell their story without implication. And as the honourable man he is, he is upholding that, even if it means he is viewed badly and not believed to an extent because he cannot name the people....(I mean come on, some people cannot stop debating about whether these contacts are local or not, let alone who they are - thats you and I Psyche by the way).

Macrel I believe is one of the people he spoke to. I will dig out my info and post links and so forth I just need to confirm a few more bits and pieces before sticking my neck on the line.

Hi Quillius

I cannot dismiss the Bull Trader comment, sorry, as I mentioned earlier that I grew up in what sounds a very similar environment, and I know such people are a part of daily life, and Ed's statement screams out "Ranchers" are a big part of this to me. I would need something direct to convince me that they do not carry the most weight in Eds story.
Actually, I think you and I are the only two to look at Ed's statement in such depth, due to his past, most seem to either accept him completely, or just dismiss the statement.

'bull traders and ranchers' but ALSO from military intelligence people

Now we are getting somewhere. I knew Ed knew Marcel Jnr. They spoke at the same Exopolotics conference. Dennis G. Balthaser's site says:

Quote

Dr Mitchell knows Jesse Marcel Jr., the son of the Army Air Force intelligence officer Jesse Marcel Sr., who was at the crash site during the Roswell Incident, and knows he was convinced that what crashed at Roswell was not a weather balloon. Mitchell also indicated, “that there remains strong evidence, possibly including photographs, that 61 years after the crash has not been seen by the public.” As far as an alien body(s) being recovered, Mitchell said, “I can’t prove that, but I certainly know that the so-called alien autopsy photographs were fakes.”

Just a brief digression, to indicate that others saw his hostile comment in the same light I do:

Quote

.” Mitchell believes the alien visitations should not be considered hostile, and that “some of the alleged visits” were actually “homegrown”, linked to our own super-secret programs.

LINK

So would Marcel not qualify as:

So I got it not only first-hand from the locals but military intelligence people too who had been a part of that event

He was CIC. There is military and intelligence, and he lived in Louisiana. Not necessarily local.

Have you seen this link? - Marcel Myths.

Marcel and his son argued about debris until Snr. died, I am sure I have mentioned before that one says I beams, the other square beams, that strikes me as strange as well, as if this was the discovery of the century, and you had never seen anything so amazing, how could you get a detail like that mixed up so badly?

Really, I do not know the full story on Marcel, was he extraordinarily credulous, or was he one of the best intelligence people we ever had who really did take a secret to his grave, and kept up a cover story for the reasons unknown? I do not know, but I know that he had made the appearance that he had convinced himself that he had something that he did not. This is also confirmed by Irving Newton at least, from his affidavit:

Quote

The Col. and I walked into the General's office where this supposed flying saucer was lying all over the floor.  As soon as I saw it, I giggled and asked if that was the flying saucer.  I was told it was.
While I was examining the debris, Major Marcel was picking up pieces of the target sticks and trying to convince me that some notations on the sticks were alien writings.  There were figures on the sticks lavender or pink in color, appeared to be weather faded markings with no rhyme or reason.  He did not convince me these were alien writings.

LINK

I think it is safe to say that considering this and Ed's validation of Bob Lazar, that his sources need to be questioned.

View Postquillius, on 10 October 2011 - 08:38 AM, said:

dont worry I did, I realise how many sharks are swimmming in the water ready to bite :)

LOL, yes,I do seem to appear tasty to some :D

View Postquillius, on 10 October 2011 - 08:38 AM, said:

As for the intended recipient, as I said before, the site was not an issue here as its a transcript that is available in many places along with the actual audio....if the site Bee linked to was the only source then I see its relevance, however in this case it was not needed.  :tu:

I see no reason not to go the extra mile and present a safe source ;) It is not hard, and no problems even arise.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#456    quillius

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 08:13 AM

View Postpsyche101, on 10 October 2011 - 11:25 PM, said:

Hi Quillius

I cannot dismiss the Bull Trader comment, sorry, as I mentioned earlier that I grew up in what sounds a very similar environment, and I know such people are a part of daily life, and Ed's statement screams out "Ranchers" are a big part of this to me. I would need something direct to convince me that they do not carry the most weight in Eds story.
Actually, I think you and I are the only two to look at Ed's statement in such depth, due to his past, most seem to either accept him completely, or just dismiss the statement.

'bull traders and ranchers' but ALSO from military intelligence people

Now we are getting somewhere. I knew Ed knew Marcel Jnr. They spoke at the same Exopolotics conference. Dennis G. Balthaser's site says:



Just a brief digression, to indicate that others saw his hostile comment in the same light I do:



LINK

So would Marcel not qualify as:

So I got it not only first-hand from the locals but military intelligence people too who had been a part of that event

He was CIC. There is military and intelligence, and he lived in Louisiana. Not necessarily local.

Have you seen this link? - Marcel Myths.

Marcel and his son argued about debris until Snr. died, I am sure I have mentioned before that one says I beams, the other square beams, that strikes me as strange as well, as if this was the discovery of the century, and you had never seen anything so amazing, how could you get a detail like that mixed up so badly?

Really, I do not know the full story on Marcel, was he extraordinarily credulous, or was he one of the best intelligence people we ever had who really did take a secret to his grave, and kept up a cover story for the reasons unknown? I do not know, but I know that he had made the appearance that he had convinced himself that he had something that he did not. This is also confirmed by Irving Newton at least, from his affidavit:




Hey Psyche, I am glad that we are looking into this further. I am not one to dismiss his claims on some of the reasons stated before, such as he is losing his mind or he is lying for fame/money/bitterness etc...

I have found quite a bit of information with regards to his sources. I will present some of this information even though it does strengthen your position and near enough destroys mine....but in search of the truth I feel I cannot hold it back.

The bolded part you wrote above that seems to indicate that you are not dismissing Marcel's story and you leave the door ajar, enough to make me comfortable in the fact that we will continue to dig and see what shows up without preconceived conclusions.

Before I show some more info I would add that I still give much weight to Edgar and what he is being told. I think he is a very intelligent man and would not go all out on a few tall tales, and I stick with this line of thinking for now.

ok I will find it all and post .

:tu:


#457    quillius

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 08:41 AM

this will be hard but here we go:

Lisa Rein interview ( I have not heard or seen this interview)

H+: Can you give us a little better idea about who these people were?

EM: Well, for instance, one was the undertaker who was asked to provide coffins for the small bodies.  Another was one of the people who were working traffic control out near the site when they decided to fence it off.  According to these people, they had all been shushed immediately following the incident.  They were told by the Air Force not to talk about it.  In many cases… told so with some kind of severe threat attached.

One of the people who talked to me in particular was a major who was on the base at the same time as Major Jesse Marcel, the first person on the site of the Roswell crash.  He confirmed to me that… yes, at the time, it was a real incident.  I’ve also met Jesse’s son in recent years, Jesse Marcel Jr.  He explains how his father brought home some of the pieces from the crash to show him and his mother before taking them to the base.

http://hplusmagazine...edgar-mitchell/

--------------------------------------------------


there is more I just need to find it again Psyche...


#458    mcrom901

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 08:47 AM

View Postquillius, on 11 October 2011 - 08:41 AM, said:

EM: Well, for instance, one was the undertaker who was asked to provide coffins for the small bodies.

why would they want to bury them?  :wacko:


#459    quillius

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 08:52 AM

View Postmcrom901, on 11 October 2011 - 08:47 AM, said:

why would they want to bury them?  :wacko:

thats a very good question mcrom....hmmmm


#460    psyche101

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Posted 12 October 2011 - 03:27 AM

View Postquillius, on 11 October 2011 - 08:41 AM, said:

this will be hard but here we go:

Lisa Rein interview ( I have not heard or seen this interview)

H+: Can you give us a little better idea about who these people were?

EM: Well, for instance, one was the undertaker who was asked to provide coffins for the small bodies.  Another was one of the people who were working traffic control out near the site when they decided to fence it off.  According to these people, they had all been shushed immediately following the incident.  They were told by the Air Force not to talk about it.  In many cases… told so with some kind of severe threat attached.

One of the people who talked to me in particular was a major who was on the base at the same time as Major Jesse Marcel, the first person on the site of the Roswell crash.  He confirmed to me that… yes, at the time, it was a real incident.  I’ve also met Jesse’s son in recent years, Jesse Marcel Jr.  He explains how his father brought home some of the pieces from the crash to show him and his mother before taking them to the base.

http://hplusmagazine...edgar-mitchell/

--------------------------------------------------


there is more I just need to find it again Psyche...


Gidday Quillius

Mate, I take my hat of to you, it had to be tough to post this. It kinda shoots big holes in Edgars validity. We know who the undertaker is, mortician, Glenn Dennis. He is shunned by believers and skeptics alike. Kevin Randle and Karl Pflock have shot holes in his story that you could drive a shopping centre through, and Kevin Randle is on the saucer side of things. I find his work quite in depth, and as a source for ET Roswell related claims, he is a good repository. I do not agree with all of his conclusions, but I do respect his research. Glenn was a Roswellian, and it seems the major who served with Marcel is most likely one too. Marcel served at Roswell Army base. If he is not a local now, he was likely on at the time of the incident. Could that be "not necessarily local"?
Gracious, I sure hope he does not consider Glenn Dennis as an insider with real knowledge.
It is almost a shame that Ed's claims are so far reaching that they have to be investigated. I feel his corroboration is going downhill at a rapid rate, and one thing I have to ask is in the post above the one I responded to, you mention that he is an intelligent man. I am sure that is the case, but I do not think he has his head wrapped around ET or the UFO phenomena at all. In addition to the above, we have to remember he also validates Bob Lazar. Whether his IQ be through the roof or not, he is displaying very little understanding of the subject as a whole, and only promoting the media hyped version. And, it seems that at least some of his sources are those that created fictional aspects to begin with. Sad to say, but I think Ed knows less than the average UM member about the ETH and the UFO phenomena. I doubt he is used to others being out in front of him, and I think this could possibly explain the ambiguity of his sources, and his lack of manners, as displayed when debating Bill Nye.

Form that link:

Quote

However, many years later, once I had been to the Moon and back, even though my family no longer lived in the Pecos River Valley, I went back there on a speaking tour.  I guess since I’d been to the Moon, and was a local boy, it made me somewhat credible.  I was grabbed by several of the local “old timers” who were there in 1947 during the Roswell incident and were involved in it in one way or another.  (These folks will remain nameless, even though they’re all dead now.)  They’d tug at my sleeve at some event and say “can I talk to you a minute?”  Then they would tell me their story about how they were involved in either the recovering of bodies, or directing traffic, or some such thing.  They felt for sure that it was a real alien event.  They didn’t want to go to the grave with their knowledge and considered me a safe source to tell.  They pulled on my sleeve to say, “I want to tell you about it.”

All the old timers are dead now it seems. All these people that gave him information appear to be Roswellians here too, and I have to say, the description is not all that convincing (random people tugging his sleeve?), it is looking like Ed got his material from the people who coined the original stories that do not stick, and that were embellished heavily by the press.
I gotta say mate, I do not think Ed has anything to run with here. As time wanes, and bits and pieces are uncovered the story is falling apart big time. I think right here at UM, one could get more corroborative information about the incident than Ed knows. I am starting to think he upholds the story out of respect for the elders that "confided" in him, and that he is smart enough to tell people just enough to keep them interested. These people I guess are living on in this public display, that might be reason enough for Ed to "come forward" and honor these memories globally.

Cheers.

Edited by psyche101, 12 October 2011 - 03:44 AM.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#461    psyche101

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Posted 12 October 2011 - 03:31 AM

View Postquillius, on 11 October 2011 - 08:52 AM, said:

thats a very good question mcrom....hmmmm


:D
An undertaker, aka mortician is a professional involved in the business of funeral rites. Burying is not a given. Glenn Dennis had a contract with the Roswell Military base for these services.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#462    psyche101

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Posted 12 October 2011 - 03:38 AM

View Postquillius, on 11 October 2011 - 08:13 AM, said:

Hey Psyche, I am glad that we are looking into this further. I am not one to dismiss his claims on some of the reasons stated before, such as he is losing his mind or he is lying for fame/money/bitterness etc...

I have found quite a bit of information with regards to his sources. I will present some of this information even though it does strengthen your position and near enough destroys mine....but in search of the truth I feel I cannot hold it back.

The bolded part you wrote above that seems to indicate that you are not dismissing Marcel's story and you leave the door ajar, enough to make me comfortable in the fact that we will continue to dig and see what shows up without preconceived conclusions.

Before I show some more info I would add that I still give much weight to Edgar and what he is being told. I think he is a very intelligent man and would not go all out on a few tall tales, and I stick with this line of thinking for now.

ok I will find it all and post .

:tu:


Heu Quilius

Maybe this is what he is referring to?


Quote

EM: My major knowledge comes from what I call the old-timers, people who were at Roswell and subsequent who wanted to clear the things up and tell somebody credible even though they were under severe threats and things -- this was back in the Roswell days. Having gone to the moon and being a local citizen out in the Roswell area some of them thought I would be a safe choice to tell their story to, which they did. Even though the government put real clamps on everybody, it got out anyhow.
Subsequent to that, I did take my story to the Pentagon -- not NASA, but the Pentagon -- and asked for a meeting with the Intelligence Committee of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and got it. And told them my story and what I know and eventually had that confirmed by the admiral that I spoke with, that indeed what I was saying was true.
IK: You mean what had been told to you was true?
EM: Yup, in other words. There was a UFO crash. There was an alien spacecraft. This gentleman tried his damndest to get me in and like so many others in the administration over the last 60 years, since JFK's time, was unable to. He was told 'Admiral, you don't have a need to know, and therefore go get lost,' essentially.

LINK

So Ed barged into the Pentagon, told his story, and some Admiral, and I have the sneaky suspicion this Admiral might be none other than Admiral Knowles, agreed with him in private? I would not agree with Ed that this constitutes confirmation from higher sources. And, considering what you have already uncovered, I could see this embellishment being promoted as more than it is worth?

Am am seeing lots of wiggle room here..............

Edited by psyche101, 12 October 2011 - 03:41 AM.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#463    quillius

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Posted 12 October 2011 - 08:58 AM

View Postpsyche101, on 12 October 2011 - 03:38 AM, said:

Heu Quilius

Maybe this is what he is referring to?




LINK

So Ed barged into the Pentagon, told his story, and some Admiral, and I have the sneaky suspicion this Admiral might be none other than Admiral Knowles, agreed with him in private? I would not agree with Ed that this constitutes confirmation from higher sources. And, considering what you have already uncovered, I could see this embellishment being promoted as more than it is worth?

Am am seeing lots of wiggle room here..............


Hey Psyche, the Admiral was actually admiral Wilson, I have found a few different bits and pieces that corroborate this. I am very pressed (as usual) for time but will try and post something in regards to this.

I have many other links and information that does help us build the picture fully.

Since you mention Kevin Randle, I thought it prudent to post this 'blog' of his. I also found his work very 'level headed' and good to see such from someone on my side of the fence. Anyhow I think it makes a good read with valid points that I agree with a majority.

http://kevinrandle.b...01_archive.html


I still think there is a lot more to Mitchells story and I also feel that the Roswelians he alludes to i.e. locals are the ones that triggered his interest, I then think his interest in the subject coupled with certain committees and circles he moved in also provided him with information. So yes I did sort of assist your line of thought with regards to 'old timers' being local but lets not put this to bed yet as there is mmore to this story (famous Sky words there :0 )


#464    quillius

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Posted 12 October 2011 - 09:13 AM

sorry about this rushed post but there is some good info contained.

I will start with this, it is copied from ATS as the link itself is no longer available.

From: visions [mailto:XXXXXXXX@XXXXXXX]
Sent: Monday, August 11, 2008 2:38 AM
To: Giuliano Marinkovic
Cc: Richard Dolan; Billy Cox
Subject: Mitchell speaks out about Wilson's denial

Hi Giuliano, Billy and Richard

The below info was put together from emails between myself
and Mitchell.

nip>

Hope you can make use of it and spread it around the web
Many thanks
Dave Haith (UK)



Astronaut Edgar Mitchell has revealed to me what he believes
is the reason that Admiral Wilson is now denying what he
previously said.

He refers me to an article in Jane's Defence Weekly entitled
"Pentagon's Hidden Budget" by defense analyst Bill Sweetman
in which he discusses Special Access Programs in great
detail.
www.janes.com...

Dr Mitchell points to a quote from that article:

"An unacknowledged SAP - a black program - is a program
which is considered so sensitive that the fact of its existence is a
'core secret', defined in USAF regulations as 'any item, progress,
strategy or element of information, the compromise of which
would result in unrecoverable failure'. In other words, revealing
the existence of a black program would undermine its military
value."

Dr Mitchell told me: "The UFO program that the admiral
sought would be in this category. Thus by law he would be required to
deny the existence of such a program. For a core secret SAP, even a
"no comment" would be a breach of security."

Dr Mitchell believes that the Billy Cox blog above, together
with the Jane's article "tells it all".

He writes: "They somewhat go together and validate the
entire episode."

He adds: "This SAP designation is the reason it is so
difficult to get any truthful information to the public.

NO INFORMATION is exempt from containment"

I understand Dr Mitchell has no wish to fan any flames of
conflict between he and Admiral Wilson who is, as he put it, "caught
in the political security rules dilemma as is anyone with inside
knowledge whether they like it or not."

Dr Mitchell has given full permission for me to post his
comments. "The more people and media get to see this, the sooner we
can break open the alien visitation issue."

Dave Haith


http://www.abovetops...thread379087/pg

----------------------------------------

this is also interesting and confirms Admiral Wilson as Pentagon contact, whom I personally believe is doing a swift u-turn to cover his behind (although I dont blame him)

http://www.ufodigest...808/wilson.html

----------------------------------------

will try and post some other bits later

:tu:


#465    psyche101

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Posted 12 October 2011 - 10:50 PM

View Postquillius, on 12 October 2011 - 08:58 AM, said:

Hey Psyche, the Admiral was actually admiral Wilson, I have found a few different bits and pieces that corroborate this. I am very pressed (as usual) for time but will try and post something in regards to this.

I have many other links and information that does help us build the picture fully.

Since you mention Kevin Randle, I thought it prudent to post this 'blog' of his. I also found his work very 'level headed' and good to see such from someone on my side of the fence. Anyhow I think it makes a good read with valid points that I agree with a majority.

http://kevinrandle.b...01_archive.html


I still think there is a lot more to Mitchells story and I also feel that the Roswelians he alludes to i.e. locals are the ones that triggered his interest, I then think his interest in the subject coupled with certain committees and circles he moved in also provided him with information. So yes I did sort of assist your line of thought with regards to 'old timers' being local but lets not put this to bed yet as there is mmore to this story (famous Sky words there :0 )


Gidday Mate

I have read that link, I do not suppose you noticed that Kevin appears to agree with me?

Quote

Let’s take a look at this carefully. Mitchell isn’t saying that he saw any of this, that he was working with inside information, but was talking to the people who were involved, in Roswell. Clearly these were people he trusted and that they felt they could tell him about it because of who he was. But this adds little to what we already know about Roswell. He provides no names, though I suspect we could identify some of them if we wanted.He then goes off on what I believe to be a tangent, but it also supplies us with a clue about the source of some of the information.

I agree he is a good investigator, certainly a favorite of mine from the other side of the fence, I see him as leaps and bounds out in front of the likes of Friedman. My only problem with Kevin's take is that I find his reason for believing in Roswell as an ET incident just a little too plain, simplistic and unconvincing, as far as I can tell it all comes down to that he believes Marcel could not have misidentified a Balloon. That seems to be the entire basis for his conviction. Still, next to others in the field, like Bragalia, he shines out like a beacon.

Admiral Wilson. Do you really think there might be something to this? Greer is out in some desolate woo woo land here mate, as soon as his name enters the mix, the credibility loses and engine and takes a serious nose dive. In this case though, both Wilson and Mitchell pulled away from Greer. I know the meeting you are talking about now, Naval Commander Willard Miller was there too. Now Mitchell called this meeting, earlier I posted:

I did take my story to the Pentagon -- not NASA, but the Pentagon -- and asked for a meeting with the Intelligence Committee of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and got it.

So why would he invite Greer along, unless he has no knowledge of the actual situation, and relies on people who will support him, when in essence, people of this caliber are no doubt using him for his title of Astronaut. This meeting has gone to pieces, Wilson emphatically denies the claims made, and Ed himself also tuned on Greer for involving him. Live and lear I take it was Ed's lesson there.

Quote

Billy Cox: And, Finally, Admiral Wilson Denies Greer/Mitchell Allegations

A former high-ranking military intelligence official rumored to have been snubbed in his attempts to obtain sheltered UFO data insists he never even bothered to look for it.

“Never,” retired Rear Adm. Thomas R. Wilson replied Tuesday when asked if he’d ever been barred from retrieving classified material, exotic or otherwise, during his career.

Now an executive with a Minnesota-based defense contractor, Wilson told De Void he accepted Mitchell’s 1997 request “because he was a former astronaut and maybe had more credibility than some person off the street.” Wilson says he doesn’t remember who else attended that meeting, but he admitted “a certain amount of curiosity” about allegations of deep-black UFO projects.

“What is true is that I met with them,” Wilson said in a phone interview. “What is not true is that I was denied access to this material, because I didn’t pursue it. I may have left it open with them, but it was not especially compelling, not compelling enough to waste my staff’s time to go looking for it.”

Mitchell told De Void he never heard directly from Wilson after their initial meeting, but he says he trusts the veracity of the unnamed sources who told him of Wilson’s inability to penetrate security.

Mitchell said he was “shocked” by Wilson’s response to De Void, but added, “I do not wish to engage him on this matter.”

Steven Greer refused to back down.

LINK

One thing that reall stands out here, is that Mitchell is saying above that he never heard from the Admiral again. Yet Ed also says

Quote

And told them my story and what I know and eventually had that confirmed by the admiral that I spoke with, that indeed what I was saying was true.

Either it was a very long meeting, or there is another anomaly here.

And the other thing is that Wilson is not saying "I have no comment" he is not saying "classified" he is saying "poppycock." That is pretty clear, not only that, but Ed himself distanced himself from Greer over that one:

Quote

Ed Mitchell Most Unhappy With Greer Using His Name  As Disclosure Witness
(Edgar Mitchell) I cooperated with Steve Greer some years ago, but he began to overreach his data continuously, necessitating a withdrawal by myself, and, I believe, several others. I have requested to be removed from any web site, announcements, etc., but see that has not taken place.

LINK

I think it rather obvious that it is not the Admiral in denial here, it is Ed. Lets face it, he needs the validation. Glenn Denis, Stephen Greer, and Bob Lazar are amongst his "sources" Mate this is going downhill at a more rapid rate than even I envisaged. If Ed cannot name a credible source that will back him, I have to say that he has less information than the average person with a UFO interest to validate these claims. Ed says his information comes primarily from the old timers, and I find this "supporting evidence that validates what Ed heard" a pretty loose corroboration, grasping at straws if you will.
At the end of the day, I feel it is what we started with, Ed believes other who believe. That is about the short and tall of it.

Cheers.

Edited by psyche101, 12 October 2011 - 10:52 PM.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who




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