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The 9/11 Planes and the Pentagon attack


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#1771    booNyzarC

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Posted 17 December 2011 - 04:15 AM

View Postskyeagle409, on 17 December 2011 - 04:08 AM, said:

To sum it all up;

The 'Pilots for 9/11 Truth,' website has now crashed and burned!!!.

Where it applies to this ACARS messaging standpoint, I most definitely agree.  Where it applies to other aspects of their claims, I can only assume.

Cheers sky! :tu:


#1772    Wandering

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Posted 17 December 2011 - 04:59 AM

View Postskyeagle409, on 17 December 2011 - 04:08 AM, said:

To sum it all up;

The 'Pilots for 9/11 Truth,' website has now crashed and burned!!!.



I can only say I will be careful of what conclusions you draw from any information, seeing as how you came to the conclusion that Balsamo was not a pilot, only to find out he was... :lol:

What does that mean? You didn't do your own research but happily come to conclusions. :(




P.S. Props to Boon for forking out his own moolah to support his claim. Will enjoy reading the details :)

Edited by Wandering, 17 December 2011 - 05:01 AM.


#1773    booNyzarC

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Posted 17 December 2011 - 05:30 AM

View PostWandering, on 17 December 2011 - 04:59 AM, said:


P.S. Props to Boon for forking out his own moolah to support his claim. Will enjoy reading the details :)
I appreciate the props.  Your thoughts on the information provided so far?


#1774    Wandering

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Posted 17 December 2011 - 07:03 AM

View PostbooNyzarC, on 17 December 2011 - 05:30 AM, said:

I appreciate the props.  Your thoughts on the information provided so far?

It would appear at the moment that the planes did not receive those messages and they were directed by flight plan not the location of the aircraft.


It would appear difficult to prove that the plane was taken to another airport. Possibly because proving something that may not have happened is known to be tricky. I think It's the nail in the coffin for the plane having recieved messages, but by no means is a nail in the coffin for a mid-air swap or even a pre-takeoff swap which is something I've seen discussed. It would cut down on the risk of swapping midair, would account for it appearing to be the plane that took off from Boston being the plane that crashed etc. Does it say anywhere in those documents BoonY whether the plane can manually select to not receive messages? That wouldn't prove anything either way, but it is something I was curious of.


It'd be great if there was a pilot on the boards to ask if it would be possible to replace a plane. Unfortunately I've come to the conclusion that skyeagle is not a pilot due to what some other people have told me. :lol: Sorry couldn't help it.  I can imagine a great number of difficulties in my head, but perhaps there would be a record of some 'servicing' or 'maintenance' or 'painting' in the near history of 11/175.



Perhaps I'm wrong and all it took to drop the towers was some bumbling terrorists who failed flight classes, seemed to forget their Qurans everywhere, who's baggage luckily contained everything required to prove their guilt, a last will&testament to be blown up, papers revealing the identities of all the hijackers! (lucky!!!), who carried fireproof passports and must have thrown it out the cockpit window the moment before impact!  Perhaps I am wrong and they were just really lucky. >.>


#1775    Q24

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Posted 17 December 2011 - 11:30 AM

View PostbooNyzarC, on 16 December 2011 - 01:24 AM, said:

Does anyone know how/where Warren got this?

Operation Northwoods was a 1962 plan by the US Department of Defense to cause acts of violence, blamed on Cuba, in order to generate U.S. public support for military action against the Cuban government. The plan called for various false flag actions, such as staged terrorist attacks and plane hijackings, on U.S. and Cuban soil.

#1776    bubs49

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Posted 17 December 2011 - 01:44 PM

View PostQ24, on 17 December 2011 - 11:30 AM, said:

Does anyone know how/where Warren got this?

Yes, this is definitely a good question.
Another good question is why ACARS data from United 175 are completely missing in this file.


#1777    booNyzarC

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Posted 17 December 2011 - 02:19 PM

View PostQ24, on 17 December 2011 - 11:30 AM, said:

Does anyone know how/where Warren got this?
I do not know where or how he got it, but I agree it is a good question.  Before he came out with that, I did see a screen capture that appears to be showing the same data:

Posted Image

I spent a bit of time trying to find the source for the photo, but I had no luck tracking it down.  I was quite pleasantly surprised when I saw that Warren had shared the PDF.


View Postbubs49, on 17 December 2011 - 01:44 PM, said:

Yes, this is definitely a good question.
Another good question is why ACARS data from United 175 are completely missing in this file.
Both good questions indeed, but still negligible considering what we now know about the /GL RGS Text Element Identifier references that spawned this debate in the first place.


#1778    bubs49

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Posted 17 December 2011 - 07:28 PM

View PostbooNyzarC, on 17 December 2011 - 02:19 PM, said:

I do not know where or how he got it, but I agree it is a good question.  Before he came out with that, I did see a screen capture that appears to be showing the same data:

Posted Image

I spent a bit of time trying to find the source for the photo, but I had no luck tracking it down.  I was quite pleasantly surprised when I saw that Warren had shared the PDF.



Both good questions indeed, but still negligible considering what we now know about the /GL RGS Text Element Identifier references that spawned this debate in the first place.

That screenshot was known to me, Stutt's PDF file wasn't. Definitely it's not the same file.
The file name the above screenshot was taken from is "2 AWA 879 Printout UAL 93 ACARS Data.pdf".
The name of the file presented by Stutt is "5 AWA 898 Printout of ARINC Messages.pdf".

Two different file names, two different documents

The file name of the PDF shown in the screenshot, "2 AWA 879 Printout UAL 93 ACARS Data", leads to speculate that it only contains ACARS messages related to UA93, whereas the sanitized list commented by Winter and Knerr in their interview to the FBI could be a good candidate. However, we see from the screenshot that that file only has two pages (1 of 2). This fatally leads to rule out the sanitized list of UA93's logs. 24 ACARS messages are definitely too much for only two pages.

Another question I have for Mr. Stutt is why the PDF he presented days ago was and is still not included in his home page, which contains a list of documents released through FOIA available for download. Why was it not there? Why was it part of the folder "General files", which is not publicly accessible?

Edited by bubs49, 17 December 2011 - 07:30 PM.


#1779    booNyzarC

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Posted 17 December 2011 - 08:00 PM

View Postbubs49, on 17 December 2011 - 07:28 PM, said:

That screenshot was known to me, Stutt's PDF file wasn't. Definitely it's not the same file.
The file name the above screenshot was taken from is "2 AWA 879 Printout UAL 93 ACARS Data.pdf".
The name of the file presented by Stutt is "5 AWA 898 Printout of ARINC Messages.pdf".

Two different file names, two different documents
I never said that it was the same file.  I only stated that it appeared to be showing the same data.


View Postbubs49, on 17 December 2011 - 07:28 PM, said:

The file name of the PDF shown in the screenshot, "2 AWA 879 Printout UAL 93 ACARS Data", leads to speculate that it only contains ACARS messages related to UA93, whereas the sanitized list commented by Winter and Knerr in their interview to the FBI could be a good candidate. However, we see from the screenshot that that file only has two pages (1 of 2). This fatally leads to rule out the sanitized list of UA93's logs. 24 ACARS messages are definitely too much for only two pages.
Yes, well if you take an even closer look what you have is a screen shot of a two page PDF file that appears to have an embedded screen shot of its own showing WordPad with a significantly sized text file by the name of ~me00000.txt open.  Notice how small the scroll bar is in the embedded WordPad screen shot.  The text file must have been very long for that scroll bar to be that small.  I searched for that file, ~me00000.txt, but I couldn't find it anywhere.


View Postbubs49, on 17 December 2011 - 07:28 PM, said:

Another question I have for Mr. Stutt is why the PDF he presented days ago was and is still not included in his home page, which contains a list of documents released through FOIA available for download. Why was it not there? Why was it part of the folder "General files", which is not publicly accessible?
You should complain to Balsamo about such things.  Good old Rob is responsible for the fact that Stutt isn't able to answer your questions on the P4T forum.


#1780    bubs49

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Posted 17 December 2011 - 09:31 PM

View PostbooNyzarC, on 17 December 2011 - 08:00 PM, said:


You should complain to Balsamo about such things.  Good old Rob is responsible for the fact that Stutt isn't able to answer your questions on the P4T forum.

Good old Rob is responsible for all the evil in the world, including 9/11, cancer, acne and even taxes. I wonder if you'll ever be able to write a single post without mentioning him or blaming him for something. No offence intended, you appear to be pretty obsessed.

I asked a very simple and straightforward question that has nothing to do with Balsamo or Pilots for Truth. Internet is a big place, there are plenty of forums where Mr. Stutt can post this information, including his own personal site and many other forums where he is a known member. I guess he can clarify my concern on whatever site at his earliest convenience.


View PostbooNyzarC, on 17 December 2011 - 08:00 PM, said:

Yes, well if you take an even closer look what you have is a screen shot of a two page PDF file that appears to have an embedded screen shot of its own showing WordPad with a significantly sized text file by the name of ~me00000.txt open. Notice how small the scroll bar is in the embedded WordPad screen shot. The text file must have been very long for that scroll bar to be that small. I searched for that file, ~me00000.txt, but I couldn't find it anywhere.

They are two different files. Period. I am not questioning the authenticity, nor am I speculating that "2 AWA 879 Printout UAL 93 ACARS Data.pdf" contains anything that is not contained in "5 AWA 898 Printout of ARINC Messages.pdf" or vice versa. I don't know. All I know is that they are two distinct files.

Edited by bubs49, 17 December 2011 - 09:37 PM.


#1781    skyeagle409

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Posted 17 December 2011 - 10:05 PM

View PostWandering, on 17 December 2011 - 04:59 AM, said:

I can only say I will be careful of what conclusions you draw from any information, seeing as how you came to the conclusion that Balsamo was not a pilot, only to find out he was... :lol:

On the contrary, he was sending me a message that he lacked aviation knowledge.  I also noticed that all he was doing was parroting what was already availiable on the Internet.

On another note, he was not knowledgable on aircraft structures either. He once posted a photo of a damaged trim tab on a horizonal stabilizer to imply that an aircraft could not remain flyable, so I responded with a photo of broken horizonal stabilizers on a B-747-SP, which landed safely in San Francisco after experiencing high G-loads and airspeeds far beyond its designed limitations, and yet, he continued to post a chart which had no real significance because United 175 survived airspeeds over 500 knots. He later brought up an Egytian Airliner that broke up in flight and crashed in the Atlantic as an example regarding the crash of United 175, but again, his lack of aviation knowledge had shown when he failed to take into consideration the aircraft's current weight/load factor and control inputs during the time before the crash versus those of United 175. Look what he posted at post 406:

Quote

Now, even if Ballinger had control over ACARS routing, why exactly did he send it through PIT when he was seeing the above track?            

The more he kept posting, the more I had my doubts.

Edited by skyeagle409, 17 December 2011 - 10:44 PM.

KEEP YOUR MACH UP AND CHECK SIX

#1782    booNyzarC

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Posted 17 December 2011 - 10:16 PM

View Postbubs49, on 17 December 2011 - 09:31 PM, said:

Good old Rob is responsible for all the evil in the world, including 9/11, cancer, acne and even taxes. I wonder if you'll ever be able to write a single post without mentioning him or blaming him for something. No offence intended, you appear to be pretty obsessed.
In that post I didn't say that Rob was responsible for anything other than muzzling Warren.  Speaking of which, do you agree with that decision?  Careful how you answer, he might read this you know...



View Postbubs49, on 17 December 2011 - 09:31 PM, said:

I asked a very simple and straightforward question that has nothing to do with Balsamo or Pilots for Truth. Internet is a big place, there are plenty of forums where Mr. Stutt can post this information, including his own personal site and many other forums where he is a known member. I guess he can clarify my concern on whatever site at his earliest convenience.
Point taken, and I agree.  Warren can answer these questions if he decides to.  I just found it odd that you posed them here when I don't think he's a member here.  Perhaps if you posted your questions on a forum that he frequents you'd have a better chance of getting an answer?


View Postbubs49, on 17 December 2011 - 09:31 PM, said:

They are two different files. Period. I am not questioning the authenticity, nor am I speculating that "2 AWA 879 Printout UAL 93 ACARS Data.pdf" contains anything that is not contained in "5 AWA 898 Printout of ARINC Messages.pdf" or vice versa. I don't know. All I know is that they are two distinct files.
Actually they are three distinct files; two PDF files and a TXT file.

Now that we have that important bit of business established, do you have any thoughts regarding the recent posts which appear to have proven your previous hypotheses to be false?


#1783    skyeagle409

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Posted 17 December 2011 - 10:29 PM

View PostWandering, on 17 December 2011 - 07:03 AM, said:

It would appear at the moment that the planes did not receive those messages and they were directed by flight plan not the location of the aircraft.

How many times have I posted that there was nothing in the ACARS messages that indicated the aircaft received such messages after impact? How many times have I mentioned flight plans in regards to ACARS routing? After what BooN, and Czeros have posted, it now seems that you are finally coming around.

Quote

It would appear difficult to prove that the plane was taken to another airport. Possibly because proving something that may not have happened is known to be tricky.

No chance!! There are no ARTCC nor ATC transcripts  nor radar data placing those aircraft anywhere but where they crashed. There are no ACARS arrival messages anywhere to be found for those aircraft nor anything in the records of American nor United Airlines either. Who will pay the fuel, support, and maintenance cost of a B-767 at the airport? Who will pay the landing fees for a B-767 or a B757 for an unauthorized landing? Who will assign a gate or tarmac location  for an unauthorized arrival? Who will pay for support equipment needed for a B-767 or a B-757 after arrival? What about the flight plan? These are the kind of things that conspiracist tend to overlook.

Quote

I think It's the nail in the coffin for the plane having recieved messages, but by no means is a nail in the coffin for a mid-air swap or even a pre-takeoff swap which is something I've seen discussed.

Just consider it a done-deal, because there was no way to swap aircraft in mid-flgiht in controlled airspace and not attract attention and if Balsamo was a real pilot he would know why, so what does he have to say about the possibility of an aircraft swap?An examinaton of the passenger list and remain identifications should have told you that there was no swap,and I told you before that if you do swap aircraft  you have to account for the swapped aircraft as well.

Edited by skyeagle409, 17 December 2011 - 11:00 PM.

KEEP YOUR MACH UP AND CHECK SIX

#1784    skyeagle409

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Posted 17 December 2011 - 10:33 PM

View PostWandering, on 17 December 2011 - 07:03 AM, said:

It'd be great if there was a pilot on the boards to ask if it would be possible to replace a plane. Unfortunately I've come to the conclusion that skyeagle is not a pilot due to what some other people have told me. :lol:

How amusing!! Chances are, I was flying years before Balsamo was old enough to open his eyes.

KEEP YOUR MACH UP AND CHECK SIX

#1785    skyeagle409

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Posted 17 December 2011 - 10:57 PM

View PostWandering, on 17 December 2011 - 07:03 AM, said:

It would appear at the moment that the planes did not receive those messages and they were directed by flight plan not the location of the aircraft.

Perhaps, you can now enlighten Balsamo because when I told him that, he said that my message was moot and absurd.

KEEP YOUR MACH UP AND CHECK SIX




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